Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine

If the Russians did it, some questions come to mind. Why would they send him to Africa, still as the figurehead of Wagner? Instead of keeping him in Belarus, waiting for things to cool down, and then arrest and imprison him? Who benefits from this? In the media, the US is trying to capitalize on the event: "President Biden suggests Putin may be behind the plane crash" says CNN.

I think that the Russian leadership doesn't care that much about the public opinion in the West, but what is the public opinion in Russia? It sounds a bit of a stretch to kill him, sell the story as a Western plot, and send a message to those in the know. While there are other means to neutralize someone like Prigo back home.

And the exact same thing could be said if we think of the West as the perpetrator. The West kills him, sells the story as a Russian plot, and send a message to those in the know to not betray them.
 
Michael B-C said:
With others blood involved including Wagner co founder Utkin?
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One shouldn't jump to the conclusion that all the others who died were socalled innocent blood. Prig was not the only traitor whose loyalty wasn't with the military hierarchy which is responsible for the SMO in Ukraine. The Russian leadership has for good reasons not published a long list of names of those who were traitors. It is not inconceivable that some of those closest to Prig and on the plane were among those who could not be trusted. So thinking about what has been said then I think that Joe and Niall have some good points which could at least make the case for that it was an internal affair. It doesn't mean that it was, just that it could well be.

Like Joe said, then whether it was done by internal forces or by outside, then Putin would be blamed anyway and after these last 10+ years of Putin bashing, then he surely must be immune to it and act according to higher principles and not just sweet revenge. Prig was a liability who since he couldn't be trusted then might have later done something stupid somewhere which would cost Russia more problems and blood.
 
Navigator said:
If the Russians did it, some questions come to mind. Why would they send him to Africa, still as the figurehead of Wagner? Instead of keeping him in Belarus, waiting for things to cool down, and then arrest and imprison him? Who benefits from this? In the media, the US is trying to capitalize on the event: "President Biden suggests Putin may be behind the plane crash" says CNN.

I think that the Russian leadership doesn't care that much about the public opinion in the West, but what is the public opinion in Russia? It sounds a bit of a stretch to kill him, sell the story as a Western plot, and send a message to those in the know. While there are other means to neutralize someone like Prigo back home.

And the exact same thing could be said if we think of the West as the perpetrator. The West kills him, sells the story as a Russian plot, and send a message to those in the know to not betray them.
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If he "dies suddenly" in Russia, there is no doubt that it was the Russian govt. If his plane blows up, even over Russia, it's still open to speculation as to who did it. Notice the comments here since the news came in, they cover all possible scenarios (apart from an accident): "Putin did it" "The West did it" "The Ukrainians did it". That's good enough for Putin.
 
Apparently the evacuation of PMC Wagner fighters from Belarus to Russia and their incorporation as a "special unit" into the Rus. AF has begun. An Il-76 aircraft of the Ministry of Defense arrived in Belarus. We can deduce that Prig and the other Wagner execs. were still holding out, and influencing others, on that score, i.e. Wagner would not be incorporated into the MOD. Now that they are gone, normal service will be restored.
 
I've heard Putin described as a legalist. Looking at the way he seems to have trusted in the Minsk accords, and also drafted up and sent off those two security accords for NATO to sign prior to the SMO, it makes sense to describe him this way. In this vein, it would also make sense that he'd go the legal route with Prig.

But he's also got his KGB background, and a very large nation to keep together, all in the geopolitical context of the BRICS+ continuing its drive to multipolarity and unseat the hegemon, while the Western spooks are circling and trying to find some sort of weak point. Plus, the country is basically at war with all of NATO. So I don't think he'd let a traitor walk.

I really don't know how things are within Russia, but I think that he's being careful to not make any sudden moves without having a pretty intense intelligence/strategy review, lest the internal balance in Russia and/or the geopolitical balance gets outta hand.

He's also made it pretty clear that betrayal is one thing that he can't forgive, both in the past and more recently when speaking directly about Prig.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1694397432606392540

https://twitter.com/x/status/1694408365475090771
 
Joe said:
The West did as much as they could of that kind of smearing of Putin a long time ago. It culminated in the entire Western press declaring "Putin the babykiller" over the MH17 incident. Does anyone think that Putin gives a 2nd thought to what the West thinks of ANYTHING he does at this point or what they or their press might say about him? What HAVEN'T they said over the years? And ALL of it lies, and yet ALL of it swallowed by the gullible Western populations for the most part. So I seriously doubt he factors anything they might say about him into what he does or does not do. Unless he were to fully embrace the empire of chaos, there is literally NOTHING he could do that would lead to a positive response from the West. So why bother? The Western elites are on the road to oblivion, and are in midst of their own death throes. Who in their right mind would care about such a cabal, apart from keeping them at arm's length.
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Everyone made a whole bunch of assumptions and almost all of these assumptions have logical justifications because Evgeny Viktorovich did and said so much that we had to wait for the arrival to him literally from all sides. In this message, flight MH17 is mentioned and I remember that there was a question to Cs at that time and there was a completely unambiguous answer. In this case, it seems to me, it is necessary to try again to this authoritative source on occasion.

Все сделали целую кучу предположений и почти все эти предположения имеют логические обоснования ибо Евгений Викторович сделал и наговорил так много, что ему надо было ждать прилета буквально со всех сторон. В этом сообщении упомянут рейс MH-17 и мне помнится, что тогда был вопрос к C's и был вполне однозначный ответ. В данном случае, мне кажется, надо обратиться опять к этому авторитетному источнику при случае.
 
If Prigozhin really was on that plane, I wonder what was going through his mind as the plane fell... if he felt it was all 'worth it'.
All that 'power,' money, notoriety (which seemed to be important to him)... an ego completely out of control... choices in recent times made from anger and resentment (it would appear) that seemed to perhaps stem from some kind of soul smashing/psychosis. But I think war and extreme combat over sustained periods would do terrible things to anyone immersed in that kind of activity.

I wonder, now, he is in a different state energetically, does he really think it was a life well lived?
Not much of a life toward the end, hiding, paranoid, never able to relax or laugh deeply, hold your family close.

Perhaps as the plane fell, he was thinking of his daughter, wishing his choices had been wiser.
Perhaps he didn't have much time to think at all.

At the end of the day, I think he has always intended to go out with a 'bang'.
He always seemed to love the attention.

As for the others who were on the plane, the C's warn us about being in contact with those who hold lower vibrations.
I guess it's a case of 'like attracts like' - each travels with their own kind...
eagles with eagles, crows with crows.
 
Joe said:
Michael, do you think Prigozhin launched his abortive coup all by himself?
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No, not a chance in Nelly, Joe. I've always assumed that Putin did what he did post the event (when whoever gave Prig the go ahead claiming 'were right behind you', left him dangling in the wind when it was clear the system united to protect the center) so as to buy time and space to flush out the real 5th columnists (not a second rate cook masquerading as a soldier). Somewhat on track?

Its always intrigued me that with the Wagner Group being effectively a child of certain intelligence agencies that there was a chance the real dangers to Putin lay way deeper buried and much nastier than than the buffoon they pushed forward as cover... so would I be on track to consider this move by Putin - if that's what it was - as a raw display of public power to make it clear to all those who have been stabbing him in the back behind the scenes - don't make the mistake of taking me for a soft fool?

Just mussing...

There have been a number of oddities of late, including...

The unresolved status or not of General Surovikin...

That bizarre but clearly provocative article in the Brussels based Moscow Times which insinuated certain elements within the Kremlin were open to - even involved in - negotiation but Putin's intransigence remains the problem... if only he could be removed...

The West dangling a deal (land captured thus far for Ukraine membership of EU/NATO) that seems so dumb because of course Putin will never agree to it... but perhaps its not aimed at him......... because some others just might...

A Night of the Long Knives brewing.... ???

Always worth remembering that regime change is the name of the game for the West... and it has to get real dirty before it gets settled...
 
An interesting side-bit to this plane crash and possible doing with Prigozhin is that it happened in the middle of BRICS summit 22.-24.08. in South Africa. Maybe also a message to the 'new world' how traitors are gonna be treated?

In addition, I'm not really informed, but did Prigozhin enter Russia proper in anyway after the mutiny? If not, this plane crash might also be viewed in that context, i.e. Prigozhin was not to be allowed to come back alive.
 
Michael B-C said:
The unresolved status or not of General Surovikin...
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Today it was reported that Surovikin was removed from the post of commander of the VKS with the wording "in connection with the transition to another job." This does not add much clarity, but he has not yet been charged with unequivocal charges. Maybe everything is still ahead.

It's not very informative, but I'll post it just in case. Maybe someone wants to look at the falling plane and the crash site.
СРОЧНЫЕ НОВОСТИ. Авиакатастрофа: Пригожин и Уткин "Вагнер" погибли. В ЧВК "Вагнер" введен протокол на случай их гибели (20 видео) смотреть онлайн в хорошем качестве

Сегодня сообщили, что Суровикин отстранен от должности командующего ВКС с формулировкой "в связи с переходом на другую работу". Это добавляет не очень много ясности, однако однозначных обвинений ему пока не предъявляется. Возможно все еще впереди.
Это не очень информативно, однако на всякий случай я выложу. Может кто хочет посмотреть на падающий самолет и место падения. /SPOILER]
 
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