Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine

One shouldn't jump to the conclusion that all the others who died were socalled innocent blood. Prig was not the only traitor whose loyalty wasn't with the military hierarchy which is responsible for the SMO in Ukraine. The Russian leadership has for good reasons not published a long list of names of those who were traitors. It is not inconceivable that some of those closest to Prig and on the plane were among those who could not be trusted. So thinking about what has been said then I think that Joe and Niall have some good points which could at least make the case for that it was an internal affair. It doesn't mean that it was, just that it could well be.

Like Joe said, then whether it was done by internal forces or by outside, then Putin would be blamed anyway and after these last 10+ years of Putin bashing, then he surely must be immune to it and act according to higher principles and not just sweet revenge. Prig was a liability who since he couldn't be trusted then might have later done something stupid somewhere which would cost Russia more problems and blood.

Absolutely.

I speculate that there is a chance that while the method of assassination may have been undesirable, the happenstance target richness of the environment created a once off opportunity that was too unique to pass up.

In other words, that the concentration of otherwise popular traitors itself might have led to a possibly quickly put together plan, executed just as swiftly.

Although arguably tragic in either case, this scenario leaves less collateral damage than apparent.

Quad
 
Its always intrigued me that with the Wagner Group being effectively a child of certain intelligence agencies that there was a chance the real dangers to Putin lay way deeper buried and much nastier than than the buffoon they pushed forward as cover... so would I be on track to consider this move by Putin - if that's what it was - as a raw display of public power to make it clear to all those who have been stabbing him in the back behind the scenes - don't make the mistake of taking me for a soft fool?
Yep, and he sure did look soft for a while there. I lean towards this being the only reasonable explanation (other than unlikely accident).

This dude was a real pathological and as such, was only ever gonna cause more problems. Plus, he clearly had enough of a spellbinding ability to cause quite a ruckus.

As for moral grounds or innocent blood, who knows. It is a time of war and important decisions of statecraft will affect the trajectory of the whole world at a key moment. I don't envy those having to make such decisions.
 
Russian authorities have confirmed that a private jet with Wagner Group founder Evgeny Prigozhin listed as a passenger crashed between Moscow and St. Petersburg on Wednesday, killing all on board.

There is no report on if he was actually on the flight, his name was on the passenger list.

You have to wonder, who would take him out. It sounds to me that it was someone wanting to stir more trouble. It hit the news immediately and that typically means that this was a PTB effort.

What I seen about him came from the news, I have no real idea if he was a goodie or baddie, but if this his death is real, it was for a purpose. And that is typically just to smear Putin. Personally, I don’t think that it was a Putin effort to smear himself. Haiku …
 
According to a number of Telegram sources (such as Baza and others), the stewardess Kristina Raspopova told her relatives a few hours before the flight that their flight was delayed due to some "strange manipulations with the plane which was taken for short repairs". The plane then took off from the Sheremetyevo airport, Moscow.

Some sources also claim that the plane switched off the transponders while flying near the President's residence thereby attracting the attention of the local air defense forces. If true, why would they switch them off? Or perhaps they were switched off remotely?

Interestingly, the plane crashed on the same day two months later after Prigozhin's failed coup and on the eve of Ukraine's Independence Day.

My hunch is the same forces who destroyed MH 17 may be behind this attack, but time will tell, fwiw.
 
I doubt it was the West, Russian presence in Africa does not hinge on Prig being alive, not by a long shot. Wagner is not Prig and vice versa.
Or maybe it does hinge on him, but being dead, that is.. a successful and controllable presence. If Prigozhin behaved the way he did in Ukraine, which was a neighboring country, imagine what he'd get up to in Africa, he could go around claiming to be using Russia's flag while really hurting her interests and image further.

If I understand correctly though, Wagner would have written contracts which they have to abide by with certain nations, Prigozhin being gone does not invalidate such contracts as I can imagine, money is exchanging hands by now.

Timing is interesting, as BRICS is holding their summit, Ukraine keeps falling apart, and ECOWAS keeps threatening intervention in Niger. So I will wait for further information, but I'm 50/50 on it. Although the Russian sites keep calling this an accident, which is probably interesting language to use.

I do not discount Russia's ability to carry this out, and this might be simply me wanting to see it differently, but so far 10 passengers were listed, and 8 bodies have been recovered. Maybe what they told Prigozhin was... you either get on that plane, or you disappear, but you're done. But as I type this, that seems too far fetched, troublesome and impractical.

In the West it will look like more of the same "Putin is so evil! look!!" so no harm done. But internally, it could look two ways, one which would see it as foreign aggression, cementing Russia's position, and the other which would seem like punishment has finally been delivered, which cements Russia's position, so it may workout rather well in the end, whichever interpretation people make. OSIT
 
According to a number of Telegram sources (such as Baza and others), the stewardess Kristina Raspopova told her relatives a few hours before the flight that their flight was delayed due to some "strange manipulations with the plane which was taken for short repairs". The plane then took off from the Sheremetyevo airport, Moscow.

Some sources also claim that the plane switched off the transponders while flying near the President's residence thereby attracting the attention of the local air defense forces. If true, why would they switch them off? Or perhaps they were switched off remotely?

Interestingly, the plane crashed on the same day two months later after Prigozhin's failed coup and on the eve of Ukraine's Independence Day.

My hunch is the same forces who destroyed MH 17 may be behind this attack, but time will tell, fwiw.
One thing is for sure, whoever is behind the destruction of Prigozhin's plane is extremely well connected within the Russian military-industrial complex.

Putin may have ordered that Prigozhin be "dealt with", but I doubt this would have been his preferred method of disposal. It's possible that someone used the mandate from above to construct a scenario that both fitted with Putin's objectives and objectives of their own. The symbolic associations with the Hammarskjöld assassination regarding the subject of uranium are interesting, but perhaps point not to a central theme, but rather to a tangential African relationship to the event (eg. the developing Nigeri situation and Wagner's presence there).

Note that Egypt and Algeria have both warned of possible intervention in a potential Nigeri conflict if ECOWAS do not stand down. There are also the volatile Islamist proxies such as IS and Boko Haram that have yet to be completely subdued. Are there adjacent forces that might find a shift in the geopolitical alignment of their 'neighbours' to be worth nudging in a particular direction?

My first thought upon seeing the news of Prizoghin's death was to the effect of, "He got what was coming to him." Given the 'Africa question' though, some sort of 'interference' seemed extremely likely, however given the location and nature of the execution I think the west's involvement is only from the sidelines, by the usual slack-jawed screeching of their retarded media.

Whether there are other 'stooges' involved in this incident, at the moment, it's very difficult to speculate. As the Russians say, "Посмотрим" (we'll see).

If Prigozhin really was on that plane, I wonder what was going through his mind as the plane fell...
"Ouch"?
 
Very sad, devastating news. Just between Daria Dugina's (20 Aug) and Aleksander Zakharchenko's (31 Aug) assassination anniversaries. Even though the Wagner PMC has a long ago developed and approved mechanism of action in case of death of Yevgeny Prigozhin and/or Dmitry Utkin, I think many things won't be the same any more. What and how will be different, only time can tell.

There is a lot of speculations and unconfirmed reports at the moment, but if there is anything I am relatively certain about in this respect is that the people within the Russian power structures and outside of it who have been against Prigozhin are the same who have been and are against Putin. It seems clear as a day to me when I look behind the 'PR' words and faces and focus on deeds and facts. So I'd bet my last penny that it's not Putin and his closest circle who ordered the kill - IF it was an assassination.

Anyway, Tsargrad published an article where they shared their first thoughts on cui bono aspect of Prigozhin's and Utkin's deaths. DeepL translation.

"Пригожина убили предатели": Кто был главным врагом лидера ЧВК "Вагнер"

Andrei Revnivtsev
24/08/2023, 02:00

"Prigozhin Was Killed By Traitors": Who Was The Main Enemy Of The Leader Of PMC Wagner

As a result of the crash of the Embraer 600 business jet in the skies above the Tver region, the founder of the world's most famous PMC Yevgeny Prigozhin was killed, as well as his right-hand man Dmitry Utkin with the call sign "Wagner". Their bodies, found at the site of the plane crash, are badly burned, genetic expertise is required for an official conclusion. However, sources close to the head of the PMC, confirm: Prigozhin and Utkin were killed. Along with them died the crew, security guards and Prigozhin's assistants. Who benefits, read in the material Tsargrad.

Eyewitnesses say they heard two explosions in the sky. The wing and stabiliser fell at the station Kuzhenkino, and the fuselage and the second wing - on the village of Kuzhenkino, two kilometres from the former farm. Residents were not injured.

Experts are very cautious in their judgements, because it is still unclear what exactly happened. This will become known when the black boxes are decoded and a preliminary investigation is carried out. Nevertheless, all agree on one thing: Prigozhin has many enemies.

And who was most disturbed by the leader of the "musicians"?

Western intelligence services and Kiev

Ukrainian spokesmen have repeatedly warned that they are preparing a "surprise" for the Russians for their "Day of Independence", which is celebrated on 24 August. Most often, military experts talked about the prospect of either a high-profile terrorist attack or a mass drone raid on civilian infrastructure. However, Prigozhin's death also fits into this logic.

Since there are a lot of "sleeping" cells of Bandera terrorists with weapons caches operating in Russia, any aircraft in the sky is a potential target. To hand over MANPADS from Sumy or Kharkiv region to the accomplices is an executable task for professionals.

Many write that MANPADS would not have reached the plane at the height from which it fell - it is about two kilometres. Well, then they could have planted a bomb. How?

The Embraer 135 has a maximum range of 3,200 kilometres. Apparently, it was coming from Africa, so it must have been a stopover. I'm gonna go find out where they landed. Maybe they put something there,

- writes Igor Vittel in his Telegram channel.

Add to this the fact that the Ukrainian GUR draws all intelligence information directly from the CIA and the Pentagon, and we get at least the potential for a terrorist attack.

The question arises, though, why didn't the natives of the Russian special services (Utkin served in the GRU) take care of their own safety? After all, even to fly on the same flight two high-ranking leaders of PMCs in any case is not allowed.

America is preparing an uprising in Russia

Of course, the U.S. benefits from the liquidation of Prigozhin, Utkin, and with them - the PMC "Wagner" as such. This significantly weakens Russia's position in Africa. Hence, by the way, the synchronisation of the assassination with the BRICS summit. In addition, it weakens Belarus, whose army began the new school year under the control of experienced teachers from PMC "Wagner".

At the same time, one does not need to have seven eyes in the forehead to understand how the West will use Prigozhin's death. Naturally, through CIPSO and controlled information media resources, for example, through the network of fugitive oligarch Khodorkovsky*, they will promote the theses that an effective and popular fighter against the "oligarchic regime" was killed by the Russian authorities, not forgiving him the June rebellion.

Swaying these narratives, the CIA and Mi6 will try their best to make a remake of the events in Rostov-on-Don, but without the prospect of Belarusian reconciliation. One must assume that the council of commanders - the advisory body of PMCs - is well aware of such circumstances.

By the way, some Telegram channels close to the "musicians" say that in case of the death of Utkin and Prigozhin, the company has developed a clear plan of action, which will be activated in the near future.

Prigozhin was killed by the authorities?

This version immediately raises a lot of questions. Firstly, why? After June, Prigozhin was deprived of the power to throw any unexpected, dangerous for the system forfeit. Besides, he had plenty of work to do in Africa.

Secondly, emotionally settling personal scores by blowing up a plane in the skies of Russia is the level of Latin American drug cartels, but not Russian special services.

Thirdly, why was the plane destroyed in Russia? Could it not have been done less crudely? Are there not enough crocodiles, malarial mosquitoes and barmaleys with MANPADS in Africa?

Maybe it was staged after all?

One of the veterans of the "orchestra", who asked not to be named, in a conversation with Tsargrad did not rule out a possible staging of the tragedy.

Remember, when there were searches in the office of "Wagner", there were found wigs and passports. So they could have staged a play to hide Prigozhin. To tell everyone that he was dead, to cut off his detractors. He's not young anymore, and there are a lot of people who want him gone.

- Or maybe it was an accident, an accident on board?

- I'd give it ten per cent. An accident with a plane like that? I don't believe it.

Prigozhin was killed by Putin's enemies inside the country?

If anyone inside Russia benefits from the murder of the head of the PMC "Wagner", it is Putin's enemies in the government, who realise that by committing this, let's say, missile shot, they greatly undermine confidence in the Supreme Commander-in-Chief. They introduce confusion and discord into society, create doubts and despondency.

And the strongest argument appears in the hands of the fifth column, the West and Kiev. And our enemies, who are entrenched, will generously sing along with CYPSO, throwing into the masses the idea that the government is the paymaster of what has happened. This, by the way, is already in full swing, just read the "insider" telegram channels.

So Prigozhin's rebellion is not over. Only now the head of Wagner has been used by traitors in a big way. Against Putin.
 
In Russia, in this case anyway, it's done in such a way that everyone sees it.
Fake death? Is a new general/president expected in Africa? :lol:
Very sad, devastating news. Just between Daria Dugina's (20 Aug) and Aleksander Zakharchenko's (31 Aug) assassination anniversaries. Even though the Wagner PMC has a long ago developed and approved mechanism of action in case of death of Yevgeny Prigozhin and/or Dmitry Utkin, I think many things won't be the same any more. What and how will be different, only time can tell.
August in Russia never fails in terms of bad news...
 
Found this description of the "crash", in the Jerusalem Post:

"

What caused the catastrophic descent?​

Video showed the plane descending rapidly with its nose pointing almost straight downward and a plume of smoke or vapor behind it.

Russian investigators opened a criminal probe to determine what happened. Some unnamed sources told Russian media they believed the plane had been shot down by one or more surface-to-air missiles. Reuters could not confirm that.

Brazilian planemaker Embraer SA EMBR3.SA said it had not been providing any service or support in recent years to the plane, which seats around 13.

The company said in a statement it has complied with international sanctions imposed against Russia. The luxury jet was identified on Flightradar24 with registration RA-02795, the same as the plane that carried Prigozhin to Belarus after the mutiny, an industry source familiar with the matter said.

Online flight tracker Flightradar24 last recorded the position of the aircraft at 3:11 p.m. GMT, before the crash. Jamming or interference in the area probably slowed the collection of further location data.

Other data continued for nine minutes. Flightradar24 said the jet went through a series of ascents and descents of a few thousand feet each over 30 seconds before its final, disastrous plunge.
Flightradar24 received its final data on the jet at 3:20 p.m. "

and from AeroXplorer:

"
The location of the crash site which, according to the BBC, is near the Russian town of Kuzhenkino, is approximately halfway between Saint Petersburg and Moscow and lies along a common flight corridor used by both commercial and private aircraft.

Flight tracking service Flightradar24.com aggregated flight data for approximately 12 minutes. The jet's last known location was over the Russian town of Shernevo in Tver Oblast at 18:11 local time (MST).

2sQtmuUcnf73u1M5ukd3h2chaQ-MAzxpKZ89ietN.jpg


Given the aircraft's speed and altitude information at its last tracked point, it is assumed that the aircraft would have been shot down six minutes later at around 18:19 or 18:20, which would have put the aircraft within 5 miles of Kuzhenkino.

Several hours after the jet crashed, Russia's Interfax news agency reported that the remains of all 10 people onboard the plane were found and the "search operation [was] completed."
oxHRH28gUb6oaUqyLDyhYSwu7-pr36n-AZa32Q5KIw.jpg
Altitude data as shown released after the crash by Flightradar24 | Image: Flightradar24.com

The Russian government has "specially established [a] commission" to investigate the crash of Mr. Prigozhin's jet. Investigators have “begun collecting factual materials on the training of the crew, the technical condition of the aircraft, the meteorological situation on the flight route, the work of dispatch services and ground radio equipment."
 

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