Putin Recognizes Donbass Republics, Sends Russian Military to 'Denazify' Ukraine

[heinrich]

@thorbiorn.

If the pilot made a very abrupt manoeuvre with the plane, could the wing break off? Could it rise 1000 meters without one of the wings?

1. No. Only if wing is damaged.

2. Not that type of the plane. Some heavy fighter in type of F15 or some Mig maybe could, because of the stronger engines and thrust, but that type no.

in the spiegel 35/2023, the cover shows a funny looking object in the sky which could well be a fuselage with only one wing, the tail being at the bottom. i would join a pic if i knew how...

 

[Cosmos]

If the pilot made a very abrupt manoeuvre with the plane, could the wing break off? Could it rise 1000 meters without one of the wings?

@thorbiorn.

If the pilot made a very abrupt manoeuvre with the plane, could the wing break off? Could it rise 1000 meters without one of the wings?

1. No. Only if wing is damaged.

2. Not that type of the plane. Some heavy fighter in type of F15 or some Mig maybe could, because of the stronger engines and thrust, but that type no.

I recently heard a radio-interview with a very experienced german commercial airline pilot, and he said, as far as he knows, in the whole history of commercial flights/planes, a wing never broke off! Then he explained the quite ridiculously high safety measures that planes are put through to make sure that a wing can’t break off. Apparently, the wings are built in such a resilient way that new planes must be able to have their wings bend all the way up, so that the two wings touch each other!! Without negative consequences to the wings/plane! Apparently, you can find pictures of that test on the internet.

 

[thorbiorn]

The interview took place on 16 Aug. Now it's available with English (below) and Polish onscreen transcriptions. Highly recommended. According to Panchenko, in less than 3h there was already about 0.5M views, then YT started reducing the numbers, nevertheless in one day it grew to about 1M. Panchenko posted her comment on Tg, transl.:

Thank you for sharing @Possibility of Being! This is a stellar interview. Looking for the channel of the interviewer Diana Panchenko, I found a longer version just in Russian without subtitles:

The Russian version now has 2.3 million views and 35.665 comments, One comment in Polish read if translated

All Slavs should listen to this interview! And I wish all Slavs such a President!

I believe many other people, especially if they are interested in history and politics and what goes on in the world, could learn from listening to this interview. Lukashenko can explain the background for the current situation, with details few other people would be able to give in such an authentic manner, since they have not been in a position to have witnessed all the leaders and events for the last 30 years. He is a treasure of lived and living history.

Lukashenko was asked why Ukraine and Belarus developed so differently. He says that the difference between Ukraine and Belarus is that after the collapse of the USSR, Belarus did not, as Ukraine, go into excess privatization, though the offer was there. Errors began with the very first president of Ukraine, Kutchma, and has accumulated up since that time. For this reason, he does not hold Zelensky solely responsible for current events. Zelensky was just not able to improve on the situation and is for the West a figure like Gorbatjov. They will drop him the moment they don't need him any longer. Lukashenko believes the next leader of Ukraine will be someone from the military.

When asked what advice he would give to the Ukrainians to set things right, he hesitates and limits himself to say that stopping the conflict, peace and negotiations are first.

At the end, they talk about influencing people, and he says that what he has learned, is that one has to go out and meet people, unless one is a very rich country, like the US, China, Russia that have funds to put information out through the media.

Lukashenko thinks negotiations will come quite soon, and says more than once, that one can no longer think of a United West. The European countries, like Germany and France have other interests, the war is in their "home" (referring to Europe as a continent), while the war can go on and one as far as the US is concerned.

 

[Possibility of Being]

Alexander Mercouris covers a rather revealing interview Zelensky has given to RADA TV in Ukraine.

It seems no video exists, just some references. Also, it looks like there was no interview, he just showed up on Rada TV live (if that's true). Anyway, looking for it, came across an actual and available online interview made on 27 August by Natalya Moseichuk - Ukrainian TV presenter, journalist and host on the 1+1 TV channel (think Kolomoisky).

Some highlights (many overlap with those cited as of RADA)
Propaganda alert

- A lot about corruption, Z will propose to parliament to equate corruption with high treason for wartime
- Economy - Many debts during this war, he is sure, they will be restructured, but there will be no gifts;
- Arm production: colossal (hundreds time bigger than before the war), including NATO-standard weapons/ammo which never existed in Ukraine and it should not be, a.o. artillery 155 calibre
- Elections: Z would like to hold presidential and parliamentary elections in 2024, but this requires a number of conditions, including billions of dollars, observers in the trenches, change in legislation. It needs 5B to hold elections in normal times, it's unknown how much is needed in wartime. If Lindsey Graham, who publicly spoke in favour of holding elections even despite the legal status of martial law, is going to ensure that money, Z is ready to change the law. The money can be given by the US or Europe. But Z will not hold elections on credit nor take money from the armed forces. He doesn't want to give the impression of a person who holds on to power and opposes elections. He loves freedom, he loves democracy.
- War: asked about expanding it to the Russian soil, said that in his opinion it is not right to transfer military operations to the RF territory since that would pose a great risk that Ukr would be left alone*. But Z&co are ready to fight for a long time if they don't lose people, with minimising casualties. Like, for example, Israel. It is possible to live like that. Different country and different enemy, but the Israel model would be a good one: getting armaments, technology, training and money from the US.
- Crimea: he is not sure that they have the right to talk about the military de-occupation of Crimea (publicly?) but if the AFU manages to reach the administrative borders of Crimea, he thinks it would be possible to politically push for the demilitarisation of the RF on the territory of the peninsula.
- Ukraine would rebuild the destroyed Kakhovka dam. If there are no gifts, Ukr will have to find a billion and a half, or more. In the meantime, temporary alternative solutions to the problem are being prepared.
- Joining NATO: there might come an invitation but some of the member states can be against it. if Ukraine does not receive an invitation to NATO in 2024, it will wait for it in 2025.

[*] The interview was on Sunday. Yesterday (Monday), the adviser to the head of the Ukrainian president's office, Mykhaylo Podolyak, on the same 1 + 1 TV channel said:

“Today there is already an absolute consensus that we can destroy everything Russian, for example, in Crimea. Let me remind you that a year ago, even when there were some strikes against Crimea, everyone said no, no, let's just do without it. Today, the absolute consensus is among the countries that support us, that we can destroy everything Russian in the occupied territory." As it comes to the Russian territory (internationally recognised), the number of drones of "unidentified nature" hitting Russia would increase.

- The cherry on the cake:
At the very end of the interview, Moseichuk played (either live or pre-recorded) cellphone message from Svetlana Tikhanovskaya asking Zelensky for help with "liberating Belarus". There was a reference to an earlier T's wish for, or question about, the AFU intervention in Belarus if needed.

Z said that Ukr. victory will put an end to the misery and make it possible for countries like Belarus, Moldova and Georgia to make democratic changes and that Tikhanovskaya does not need to think about foreign armies.

 

[Mytja]

He loves freedom, he loves democracy.

Thanks for the good and timely laugh! Better than the jokes in Best jokes thread.

 

[thorbiorn]

[*] The interview was on Sunday. Yesterday (Monday), the adviser to the head of the Ukrainian president's office, Mykhaylo Podolyak, on the same 1 + 1 TV channel said:

“Today there is already an absolute consensus that we can destroy everything Russian, for example, in Crimea. Let me remind you that a year ago, even when there were some strikes against Crimea, everyone said no, no, let's just do without it. Today, the absolute consensus is among the countries that support us, that we can destroy everything Russian in the occupied territory." As it comes to the Russian territory (internationally recognised), the number of drones of "unidentified nature" hitting Russia would increase.

- The cherry on the cake:
At the very end of the interview, Moseichuk played (either live or pre-recorded) cellphone message from Svetlana Tikhanovskaya asking Zelensky for help with "liberating Belarus". There was a reference to an earlier T's wish for, or question about, the AFU intervention in Belarus if needed.

Z said that Ukr. victory will put an end to the misery and make it possible for countries like Belarus, Moldova and Georgia to make democratic changes and that Tikhanovskaya does not need to think about foreign armies.

A couple of responses from Russia:
Kremlin reacts to claim that West endorses elimination of ‘everything Russian’

The remark by a Zelensky aide reflects wishful thinking in Kiev, Dmitry Peskov has said
Claims by an aide of Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky that Western nations support efforts to “destroy everything Russian” in Crimea are merely wishful thinking, a Kremlin spokesman has said.

“Representatives of the Kiev regime want to believe that. And they certainly want to do everything possible and impossible to drag Western nations as deep as they can into this conflict,” Dmitry Peskov told journalists on Tuesday.

He suggested there was a “clash of points of view” regarding an acceptable level of involvement for the US and its allies in targeting Crimea, since officials “realize the inevitable drawbacks” of this policy.

Mikhail Podoliak, the Ukrainian aide behind the claim, alleged that Western nations were increasingly supportive of the way his government is attacking Russian targets.

“A year ago, even when there were some strikes on Crimea, everyone said: ‘No, no, let’s just do without it.’ Today, the absolute consensus among the countries that support us is that we can destroy everything Russian in the occupied territories,” he said on Ukrainian television on Monday.

Podoliak added that attacks on Moscow and other Russian locations by “unknown drones” will be escalated.

Ukrainian officials do not claim credit for the regular kamikaze drone raids, for which Moscow has blamed Kiev’s forces. Zelensky claimed in a recent interview that, if the armed conflict were to spill over into territory that Kiev and its supporters recognize as Russia, his country would be “left alone.”

According to The Economist, Ukrainian drone attacks are to some extent part of Kiev’s psychological warfare, and reflect competition among Ukrainian drone operators for funding.

See also: Ukrainian drone attacks in Russia are ‘morale booster’ – NYT
And West enabling Ukrainian attacks on Russian civilian targets – The Economist

Kiev’s drone program depends on Western-provided intelligence to circumvent Russian defenses, the British news magazine has reported

Ukraine relies on Western intelligence and satellite surveillance to guide its drones toward targets within Russia, The Economist reported on Sunday. The report backs up Moscow’s claims that the West is complicit in these “terrorist” strikes.

Russia’s extensive air defense and electronic warfare capacity mean that Ukrainian drone operators often need outside help to hit targets deep inside Russia, The Economist reported, citing anonymous sources within Ukraine’s multiple drone programs. This assistance includes “intelligence (often from Western partners) about radars, electronic warfare, and air-defense assets,” the report stated.

Feedback on the success of a strike is compiled from satellites, the report noted. Ukraine has only a single surveillance satellite, meaning that any imagery collected in between its 15 daily orbits is likely provided by Western satellites.

While Ukraine often attempts to hit military targets within Russia, many of its strikes are focused on civilian infrastructure and residential areas. In the most recent incident, a small drone slammed into an apartment block in the city of Kursk, shattering windows but leaving nobody injured. Successive waves of drone attacks have targeted Moscow’s central business district in recent weeks, and although the strikes on the capital have not killed anyone, an attack on the border region of Belgorod earlier this week left three people dead.

Moscow has previously accused Ukraine’s Western backers of complicity in these “terrorist strikes.” Speaking after a small drone hit the Kremlin in May, government spokesman Dmitry Peskov stated: “We know very well that decisions about such actions, about such terrorist attacks, are made not in Kiev but in Washington." Moscow has also accused British and American special forces of assisting Kiev’s recent missile attacks on the Crimean Bridge.

According to Peskov, Moscow views the attacks as “acts of desperation,” carried out to compensate for Ukraine’s failures on the battlefield. The strikes are viewed similarly in the West, the New York Times reported on Friday. Citing US officials, the newspaper said that the drone operations are intended “to bolster the morale of Ukraine’s population and troops,” and show that Kiev “can strike back” amid its failing counteroffensive.

Today there was: Drones attack airport in Russian city near NATO border – governor

Multiple unmanned aircraft have targeted Pskov airport, close to two EU countries
The Russian city of Pskov, near the territories of NATO members Estonia and Latvia, came under attack by a swarm of drones in the early hours of Wednesday.
[...]
Emergency services told TASS that four Il-76 transport planes were damaged on the ground, but the military has yet to confirm these reports.
[...]
According to several Russian Telegram channels, over a dozen drones targeted the Pskov airport, and air defenses were engaging additional UAVs. Social media footage showed what looked like an explosion, accompanied by the sound of small arms fire.

The Russian outlet Readovka claimed that about 15 Ukrainian drones targeted the Pskov airport and were shot down, including with small arms fire. Something appeared to have crashed or exploded at the airport, and emergency services responded to the incident. There were no reports of casualties.

The Mash Telegram channel reported that one of the drones may have struck a fuel depot and set it on fire, causing “thick black smoke” to rise above the city.

Pskov is about 700 kilometers north of Ukraine, but only 30 kilometers from the Estonian border. Latvia is about 60 kilometers southwest. Both are NATO member states. To reach the city, drones launched from Ukraine would have to fly over eastern Belarus.

Ukraine has previously sent “drone swarms” at Crimea, where they were met with intense Russian air defenses. Groups of two to three UAVs also targeted the Moscow City trade center in the Russian capital, causing minor property damage and no casualties. The Kremlin has dismissed the attacks as a “nuisance” and an act of desperation, intended to distract from Kiev’s failures on the battlefield.

Here is a screenshot showing red lines to Estonia, Latvia, and Belarus. Notice the border between Belarus and Latvia.

Will these drones, if they continue, have an effect similar to the UAF bombing of the Donbass between 2014-2022, and an eventual similar response for the countries where the drones were sent from? That is probably what Medvedev had in mind when commenting on the statements of PodoLyak, which was even before the strikes on Pskov, (Notice the similarity with the name of the Presidential spokesperson, Peskov). As heard before, Medvedev is again invoking the of the apocalypse:

Zelensky aide’s claim raises ‘apocalyptic’ risks – ex-Russian president

Moscow has no reason to doubt that the West supports Kiev’s in attacking “everything Russian,” Dmitry Medvedev has said
A recent claim by a top aide to Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky that Western nations support Kiev’s attempts to “destroy everything Russian” increases the risk of all-out war between Moscow and NATO, former president Dmitry Medvedev has said.

Commenting on Mikhail Podoliak’s statement, the former Russian leader wrote on his Telegram channel: “If this is true, and we have no reason to doubt that it is, then it constitutes direct, legally significant proof of Western involvement in a war against Russia” and serves as a reasonable casus belli to justify corresponding actions by Moscow against “everyone in NATO states.”

Medevedev went on to warn that “the predictions of the Apocalypse are getting closer.”
[...]

How will this story end, or are the recent attacks on Pskov in Russia a bit like Israeli attacks on Syria, they will just continue as a nuisance. Not much can be done about it.

 

[Ryan]

Poland’s Latest Effort To Repair Its Soft Power In Ukraine Ended Up Offending Everyone There

Poland still hasn’t learned its lesson that treating Ukrainians condescendingly always backfires. Previously rock-solid Polish-Ukrainian relations have recently begun to weaken as a result of preexisting differences returning to the fore after the failure of Kiev’s counteroffensive

korybko.substack.com

Plenipotentiary for Polish-Ukrainian Development Cooperation Jadwiga Emilewicz was defending her government’s plan to retain its ban on Ukrainian agricultural imports upon the expiry of the European Commission’s deal on 15 September when she employed a very condescending example. According to her, safeguarding the interests of Polish farmers before helping Ukrainian ones is no different in principle than the airline rule that “it is the mother who has to put on the [oxygen] mask first and then the kid’s”.

 

[Possibility of Being]

Analytics from the Center for Conceptual Technologies (Russia) on events related to PMC Wagner and Prigozhin:
Historical analogy:
In 1918, there was a rebellion by Sorokin (commander of the 11th Red Army, northern Caucasus).
When the rebellion was crushed, Stalin demanded that Sorokin be delivered safe and sound for interrogation.
But one of the commanders of the regiments of the Red Army shot Sorokin and all the tails were cut off.
Later it became known that MI6 was behind the Sorokin rebellion.

Yeah, those years. Have been often thinking about parallels between the current war and the Russian civil war, in particular about the Don Cossacks and the role they played at that time - as I know it mostly from Sholokhov's "Quite Don" ("Quiet Flows the Don" in English editions). The Cossacks' (Donbass/Wagner) fight against the Bolsheviks (AFU) that brought a huge bloodshed, Russian blood on both sides. The Don Army engulfed in intrigues and power struggles. The Cossacks' independent and somewhat awkward nature, their unwillingness to subordinate to the Don Army spoiled generals eager to sent those 'savages' to deadly frontlines into badly planned battles turning meatgrinder. Grigory's (historical Ermakov) rants about those educated but lazy generals up to an open conflict with Gen. Fitskhelaurov and subsequent disbandment of his (Gregory's) division. The Cossacks' distrust to Central Powers' military officials, allegedly there to help the Whites but already calculating that Whites' victory would weaken Russia enormously which was exactly why they were there. Etc., etc...

From the same post:

But Putin did not say that Wagner were traitors - this was said by the Western media.

Yes. And by some Russian media under known control.
On 25 August, Aleksey Dyumin, the Governor of the Tula region - former chief security guard and assistant of president Putin, then led the military's Special Operations Forces - expressed condolences to the families of the PMC "Wagner" leadership and addressed to the loved ones of Yevgeny Prigozhin, Dmitry Utkin, passengers and crew members of the plane that crashed in the Tver region:

"Their deaths are a great tragedy and loss for the country. Over the past years, PMC "Wagner" in cooperation with other units of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, law enforcement agencies carried out the most complex combat tasks in the interests of Russia in different parts of the world. President Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin noted the significant contribution that the employees of the company "Wagner" made to the common cause of fighting the neo-Nazi regime in Ukraine.

I knew Yevgeny Prigozhin as a true patriot, a man of determination and fearlessness. He did a lot for the country, and the Motherland will not forget him. We mourn for those who died in this disaster, for all the fighters of PMC "Wagner" who fell in the course of the SVO. One can forgive mistakes and even cowardice, betrayal - never. They were not traitors."

 

[Ryan]

On 25 August, Aleksey Dyumin, the Governor of the Tula region - former chief security guard and assistant of president Putin, then led the military's Special Operations Forces - expressed condolences to the families of the PMC "Wagner" leadership

One wonders if the families of the airmen killed by Prigozhin's forces on his 'march to Moscow' would have a different opinion to Dyumin.

 

[f1esk]

One wonders if the families of the airmen killed by Prigozhin's forces on his 'march to Moscow' would have a different opinion to Dyumin.

But I wonder if the general who ordered the attack on the Wagner columns will answer for his order? What damage did the Wagnerites inflict, besides the downed helicopters that attacked them? No.
There were other simple ways to stop the columns. Just close the gas stations along the way, destroy the roads.

According to rumors, Surovikin, the former head of the Russian Aerospace Forces, is waiting for a well-deserved pension. All statements may be in early September, according to rumors - here I do not guarantee, I'm talking about rumors.
Nevertheless, Russia has lost patriots, on the one hand, on the other. And the winners, of course, are the stupid -flicked--up assholes from the elites of Britain and the USA. Ordinary people lost in this situation.

 

[Liliea]

US Victim of Own Propaganda in Ukraine War​

The U.S. embassy in Prague furthered the suppression of the historical context of the Ukraine conflict, which has dangerously trapped Americans in ignorance about the war

....Someone else wrote: “You vile people, twisting the history to whitewash the crimes of the Ukrainian far-right against peaceful Ukrainians, and in fact using their crimes with the diametrically opposite meaning!”

The embassy got the message. “Thanks for the heads up and apologies for the incorrect use of the graphic. We wanted to illustrate the ongoing Russian aggression against Ukraine and we chose the wrong photo,” it wrote.

US Victim of Own Propaganda in Ukraine War

The U.S. embassy in Prague furthered the suppression of the historical context of the Ukraine conflict, which has dangerously trapped Americans in ignorance about the war, reports Joe Lauria. By Joe Lauria Special to Consortium News The whitewashing of the historical context for the war in U

consortiumnews.com

 

[Possibility of Being]

Zelensky is already selling Crimea to Western funds and global corporations. And he prefers American oligarchs (oops, such a thing doesn't exist) over Ukrainian, likely hoping for a bigger slice for himself, naïve!

Z's Tg of 23 Aug:

Ukraine has a clear vision of how normal, peaceful, fair, democratic life will be restored in Crimea after we dismantle Russian tyranny on our Ukrainian peninsula.

Wherever Russia comes, the rule of violence is established. We will ensure the rule of law. We will return the true meaning to the infrastructure of Crimea. Throughout Crimea's history, its ports and roads have been connected to Ukraine and the rest of the world. Russia has isolated Crimea. We will return the whole world to Crimea.

It is only Ukraine that can bring modernity back to Crimea, and thanks to modernity, thanks to openness, thanks to security, we can guarantee a high quality of life in Crimea. And it will be a decent life that everyone who supports Ukraine wants for Crimea.

I said this in an address to the participants of the III Summit of the Crimea Platform.

More from Golobutsky, same date, including related video
transl:

"Foreign businessmen are ready to enter Crimea immediately after deoccupation. International brands are ready to start their business in Crimea, including hotels, airlines, banking businesses, IT companies, industrial companies, energy companies. As part of the Ukrainian economy, Crimea will be part of the global world economy. Today we are signing the first document with companies that are ready to enter Crimea," - Zelensky today on "Crimean Platform.
==
Kremlin propagandists have already latched onto the topic of agreements with global businesses regarding the restoration of the economy in Crimea - it is clear that in the context "the West is appropriating the territories of stupid Ukrainians." Who would doubt.

But post-occupation Crimea will definitely not become Manhattan, bought for 24 dollars. It is worth considering at least the devastation caused by the Russian occupiers, the pollution and destruction of water sources (primarily underground water, which is now salty due to the greed of the occupiers), the pollution and destruction of land and water ecosystems due to the militarization of Crimea.

Honestly: are we going to pull it all off? Our post-war economy and demography? Obviously not. And the allies will pull.

And, perhaps, an even more important point. Yes, I am talking about our traditional corruption. Global agreements "still on the shore" with large Western businesses are almost the only insurance (at least some kind) that the resources for the reconstruction of Crimea will not be stupidly stolen by their sympathizers.

So this solution may not be ideal - but the only real one. A SEZ of "joint responsibility" or under the patronage of allies (but not autonomy in any way - enough, we've already had enough of the consequences) would be even better - because it would leave even less room for corruption maneuvers.

No ovation deserved, time to end this kitschy show and lower the curtain. And send an ambulance.

 

[Ryan]

But I wonder if the general who ordered the attack on the Wagner columns will answer for his order?

Perhaps he already has. Perhaps his assessment of an armed column of politically-active men advancing on the capital city of his country left him no choice but to respond with force after issuing due warnings? Of course, I'm speculating here, as we have a wealth of information about the events of that day thanks to the openness, transparency and honesty that militaries and governments are famous for world-wide.

I have very little sympathy for Prigozhin. The guy was an efficient fighter, if that. So what? Russia has produced plenty of fighters of his calibre who would have never turned against their countrymen to further their own ambition. In the difference between a man like Prigozhin and a man like Kadyrov, you will find all that is of the highest importance including the only quality that really matters - the ability to put one's personal interests aside in service to others.

And the winners, of course, are the stupid -flicked--up assholes from the elites of Britain and the USA.

If they 'won' anything from that situation, it was only a brief moment of laughter to distract themselves from their corrupt and depraved empire's ongoing collapse, and it was gifted to them courtesy of Russia's mistake in allowing a man like Prig to dispose of so much influence, or so I think.

 

[Benjamin]

I recently heard a radio-interview with a very experienced german commercial airline pilot, and he said, as far as he knows, in the whole history of commercial flights/planes, a wing never broke off! Then he explained the quite ridiculously high safety measures that planes are put through to make sure that a wing can’t break off. Apparently, the wings are built in such a resilient way that new planes must be able to have their wings bend all the way up, so that the two wings touch each other!! Without negative consequences to the wings/plane! Apparently, you can find pictures of that test on the internet.

I think this is what you're looking for. I'm not sure about the wing's being bent all the way till they touch, but it's pretty ridiculous!

Watch These 7 Airplane Wings Pushed to the Brink and Beyond

These stress tests will stress you out.

www.popularmechanics.com

 

[Cosmos]

Peskov apparently calls western claims about the cause of the plane crash a complete lie: