Question about the C's comments on the 'alien invasion scenario'

Adaryn

The Living Force
Hi E,

your last post appears a bit defensive, could there be a reason for this?

It sounds like you've misinterpretated DanielS' statement here (emphasis mine):

Maybe trial by fire is the only way to "cleanse" ourselves of the choices we are making.

which you interpreted as:
thinking the human race is a pest that needs to be exterminated is not good.

I didn't read it that way at all. He speaks of 'cleaning ourselves', not of being a plague that must be exterminated.

Do you think your emotions might have clouded your judgement here, and you read something which was not there?

FWIW, my understanding of his post is that he said the way human race manifests itself now, here in 3D is not pretty at all. I understood it more as a statement of fact about humans' actions than about human race per se. Could be wrong though and I'm sure DanielS will clarify if so.
 

Turgon

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Hi,

I'd like to comment for a second. For one, I NEVER said the human race was a pest that needs to be destroyed. I'm part of the human race as well as my family and friends. And I don't want to see them exterminated. What I said was:

Maybe trial by fire is the only way to "cleanse" ourselves of the choices we are making.

I don't see anything in that statement about extermination, or the need for destruction. But the way a MAJORITY of people, not everyone, are living, they live extremely subjective lives, in the sense that they only see what they want to see, and only focus on what they want to, not what actually is.

I mean, 300,000 years of built up Karma, Wars, violence, Domination and submission and we're supposed to just be absolved of it, just like that? So many people have run to religion, hoping that if they prey enough, God will save them and only them, and send everyone to Hell. Other people are so dissillusioned with life that there response is to Fudge the world. Others are choosing to just close their eyes and hope when they open them again that everyone will be better. How many of us are choosing to walk through this life, and see what actually is, but still stay strong? What about the folks that arent, but are still deep down inherently good people.

If we can't face ourselves, how are we supposed to face the light? It will only end up burning us. But maybe, through this process, we will start to see what actually is, rather then what we want to see. - That is essentially what I meant by, Trial By Fire in order to cleanse ourselves.

Wave 12e1 said:
...Bone represents the very source of life. To reduce oneself to the skeleton condition is equivalent to reentering the womb for a complete renewal, a mystical rebirth. ...It is an expression of the will to transcend the profane, individual condition, and to attain a transtemporal perspective.

...The myth of renewal by fire, cooking, or dismemberment has continued to haunt men even outside the spiritual horizon of shamanism. ...The myth of rejuvenation by dismemberment and cooking has been handed down in Siberian, Central Asian, and European folklore, the role of the blacksmith being played by Jesus or other saints. [Eliade, Shamanism, 1964]


E said:
[quote author=DanielS]
There's nothing pretty about the human race.

This isn't true. If you can't see the beauty in humans, then I feel sorry for you.
[/quote]

We are 3rd density sts. We choose to see what we want, and ignore the rest. Maybe my statement that there's nothing pretty was too much, but I'm not going to fool myself into thinking that as a whole we are a beautiful race. We have the capability, but as a whole, aren't manifesting it. Individually, yes, you are most definitely right, there is so much wonder and beauty to a person if they choose to manifest that aspect of themselves.
 

dant

The Living Force
Great post!

What appears often, from what I have read here and
elsewhere, is the question of pacifism v.s. non-pacifism
and what is the correct course of action?

Is pacifism(non-violence) an STO response and non-pacifism
(violence) an STS response or can both forms be used
accordingly (choose/give according to its due)?

FWIW,
Dan
 

Adaryn

The Living Force
dant said:
Great post!

What appears often, from what I have read here and
elsewhere, is the question of pacifism v.s. non-pacifism
and what is the correct course of action?

Is pacifism(non-violence) an STO response and non-pacifism
(violence) an STS response or can both forms be used
accordingly (choose/give according to its due)?

FWIW,
Dan

Hi,
I think you gave the answer yourself :) That's the 3rd force: There's good, there's bad, and there's the specific situation which determines which is which. In one case violence will be STS, in another it will be STO. And the same for non-violence. I think it depends on your motives. Sometimes violence is right: to protect an innocent for example. You act out of "righteous anger".
My 2 cents anyway.

NB : your question makes me think of a video which has been spreading on the "French" internet for a few days. An agression filmed by the Big Brother' camera in a bus (very efficient isn't it). We see a man getting attacked by 4 guys who steal his purse. He tries to get it back but then gets beaten up for several minutes. A couple of people try to protest and gets beaten as well. Now, the bus driver does nothing during all the time it happens. And most people in the bus don't react either. These guys didn't seem to be armed or whatever. In that case, I really don't think it's STO to just stay there and don't move a finger. I don't say I'm "better" than these other people, I probably would have been too scared, like them, to do anything. Still, imagine if all the people in the bus reacted to protect the attacked guy. Same on a big level : if all the people united NOT to fight the psychopaths but to protect eachother from them.
Sorry for the digression.
 

Erna

The Living Force
[quote author=Carcosa]
Hi E,

your last post appears a bit defensive, could there be a reason for this?

[/quote]

Not at all. I guess I could have worded my initial sentence a bit better. It does sound a little confrontational ... or maybe nasty. Wasn't the intention.

[quote author=Carcosa]

I didn't read it that way at all. He speaks of 'cleaning ourselves', not of being a plague that must be exterminated.

Do you think your emotions might have clouded your judgement here, and you read something which was not there?

[/quote]

No, I wasn't emotional about it. I just wanted to point out that this situation we find ourselves in, is most likely by design. I don't mean by design of the PTB, but by higher design. Saying "there's nothing pretty about humans" did maybe trigger my emotions.

[quote author=Carcosa]

FWIW, my understanding of his post is that he said the way human race manifests itself now, here in 3D is not pretty at all. I understood it more as a statement of fact about humans' actions than about human race per se. Could be wrong though and I'm sure DanielS will clarify if so.

[/quote]

I think you may be right, in which case there is nothing wrong with his statement. And if it is the case, then I apologise.

EDIT. Thanks for clarification DanielS. Yes, collectively our fruits taste a bit sour.
 

dant

The Living Force
Carcosa:

Thank you for your response. It is true what you have said:
"the 3rd force", but of course I am continually appalled that
many do nothing at all, especially if the crime does not directly
involve themselves, as the video clearly shows. It is the same
throughout history, that fascism (abject force) continues unabated
so as long as people stand by and do nothing, and eventually this
same force, will/may/might return and apply to directly themselves.

But what is interesting is, in the case of the "invasion of the aliens",
what action is necessary, in order to overcome such a superior force,
that of which we (presently) have no tools to defend ourselves,
except that which is contained in the (hive) mind?

I guess, we all have work to do, and the future is (still?) 'open'?

FWIW,
Dan
 

Adaryn

The Living Force
dant said:
But what is interesting is, in the case of the "invasion of the aliens",
what action is necessary, in order to overcome such a superior force,
that of which we (presently) have no tools to defend ourselves,
except that which is contained in the (hive) mind?

I guess, we all have work to do, and the future is (still?) 'open'?

FWIW,
Dan

I hope so :)
There's also the butterfly wing factor, and the fact that whatever the outcome, it's the efforts we do towards truth and knowledge that ultimately count. From what I understand, the point is not to overcome them, but - without anticipation (a tough one) - to shine the light of truth on this world, for those willing or able to receive it. FWIW too :cool:
 

webglider

Dagobah Resident
Carcosa said:
I think it depends on your motives. Sometimes violence is right: to protect an innocent for example. You act out of "righteous anger".
My 2 cents anyway.

I understand what you're saying, and in large part, I agree with it. However, many years ago when I was in France I watched as a pickpocket was chased by an angry mob. I'll never forget the look of utter terror on the pickpocket's face, and I, thankfully, did not see whether he escaped or was caught.

It was a pretty ugly scene initiated by the theft, true, but the frenzy of the crowd was even uglier.

The crowd wasn't a group of individuals anymore, but a well oiled unthinking machine. I think that as long as humans react in that way, the anger can never be righteous.
 

obyvatel

The Living Force
[quote author=Carcosa]your question makes me think of a video which has been spreading on the "French" internet for a few days. An aggression filmed by the Big Brother' camera in a bus (very efficient isn't it). We see a man getting attacked by 4 guys who steal his purse. He tries to get it back but then gets beaten up for several minutes. A couple of people try to protest and gets beaten as well. Now, the bus driver does nothing during all the time it happens. And most people in the bus don't react either. These guys didn't seem to be armed or whatever. In that case, I really don't think it's STO to just stay there and don't move a finger. I don't say I'm "better" than these other people, I probably would have been too scared, like them, to do anything. Still, imagine if all the people in the bus reacted to protect the attacked guy. Same on a big level : if all the people united NOT to fight the psychopaths but to protect eachother from them.[/quote]

What is really the "right" response in such a situation? Poverty, inequality, unemployment, illiteracy etc breed anger, frustration and resentment among people. On the one hand it leads to increase in thefts and robberies. On the other hand, if a robber or thief is caught, quite often a mob of otherwise common people could severely beat up or even kill the perpetrators of the crime. This may not be so common in western countries but happens frequently in other parts of the world. Neither a thief/robber nor a "lynch" mob is amenable to reason at least at the specific time when the action is taking place. To stop a thief/robber on the spot, violence may be the only alternative. Putting myself in the situation and not knowing whether other people around me would react at all, I would know that if I decide to protest, I should be prepared for violence. Now if I am trained in self defense, then I can evaluate the situation from the perspective of possible success/failure in the event of a violent encounter and decide my response accordingly. Personally, the way I think and feel is that if it is money that is being taken without a threat to life/limb, whether it is me or someone around me - I would suggest giving up the money and avoiding physical violence. On the other hand if there is a threat to the life, then the situation changes and gets more complicated. The first reaction is to say I will try to intervene. But I read somewhere in the C's transcripts that karmic considerations play a part - of which I will have no knowledge. Then do I also evaluate practical considerations specific to my personal situation - eg if I have a dependent family/children and what happens to them if I am killed? May sound a little extreme but this is a possibility that comes to mind. Having said all that, can I forgive myself with all the justifications if I sit around doing nothing in such a situation?
I have debated with this hypothetical question in my mind for quite some time - specially after having some experience with martial arts. As is evident, I have not been able to reach a firm conclusion. Greatly appreciate thoughts or responses. Thanks in advance.
 
B

Bar Kochba

Guest
From reading the transcripts, I got the impression that the "small group" I mentioned are to go on to 4d-level awareness in their physical bodies, while the rest die and reincarnate in 3d again under the "glowing red sky." Am I way off in my interpretation here? I mean, one of the c's predictions was that "Arizona burns," which is where I live.
 

kenlee

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
obyvatel said:
I have debated with this hypothetical question in my mind for quite some time - specially after having some experience with martial arts. As is evident, I have not been able to reach a firm conclusion. Greatly appreciate thoughts or responses. Thanks in advance.

I think that if the people on the bus were collectively aware of the hoodlums at the early stages then that would open up the possibility for them to act collectively to do something. Heck, maybe they were collectively aware at some level but did they, on an individual basis, acknowledge to themselves the feeling that there was a pending threat and then let the others who were sitting next to them know about it in some way even if it was not overtly obvious like maybe just glancing at each other (for starts) and acknowledging that something potentially dangerous might be going on? I’d think that if there was any possibility for them to do anything it would start there, at that fundamental level of awareness. If the driver was unaware of what was going on then someone should have let him know. If it didn’t at least start there then, imo, there is no possibility to change the outcome, and the hoodlums would take control (as they pretty much did).

I think it takes a ‘common presence’ amongst the people on the bus to at least show by body language that they are not intimidated by these guys. But they must identify them, know the subtle signs or the ‘signatures of behavior’ of the hoodlums and then collectively stare them down (as it were), all at the same synchronous moment. I think the bus driver shoulda called the police immediately and then pull over the bus, open the doors, and then tell the hoodlums that the cops are on their way. If the bus driver didn’t have a radio then I think he should have pulled over where there were people who could contact the police, secure the breaks, and take the bus keys and put them in his pocket if he had to step out of the bus very briefly to let someone outside know that the police needed to be called immediately.
 

dant

The Living Force
How does plan for favourable outcomes with the least damage
to everyone including themselves, when it takes time to gauge
the situation as it unfolds and to know there is a "support
group" on hand? In other words, how do you *know* that
LIKE attracts LIKE, they are "with you", that you can depend
on it?

Besides, has anyone thought of the possibility that these
"hoodlums" might carrying weapons (knife, gun, tazer, bomb,
num-chucks, brass-knuckles, box-cutters, take your pick), if
so, how do you plan your strategy? Instinct to act without
regard to one's or others safety is a favourable outcome?
Do you: "Let the chips fall where they land", at random,
not knowing what outcome will be?

I guess there are no easy way to know, unless you have
mind of a fighting strategist (have read Tzu Sun and other
works), have knowledge of weapons (self-defense and/or
have a creative mind like "MacGyver", the fashioning of
available weapons "on hand" - like a cane, belt, shoe?)
and super-quick thinking on your feet as the event unfolds?

And yet, that lady acted on instinct, paying no attention
to her personal safety, ended up getting beaten, and yet
she is alive! Was that brave or plain stupid?

Perhaps, most people do not know what to do when
a faced with situation like this, and in real time. Perhaps
they believe they are powerless to do anything, they do
not count on depending on 'others' to come to their aid,
and so on. Most individuals have a lot of 'reasons'.

Isn't it due to the lack knowledge or... that the STS system
is stacked against you?

[edit: I also wanted to add: In the video, why is it that the
bus driver is missing? Hmm... selective viewing?
[/edit]

FWIW,
Dan
 

Bo

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Bar Kochba said:
From reading the transcripts, I got the impression that the "small group" I mentioned are to go on to 4d-level awareness in their physical bodies, while the rest die and reincarnate in 3d again under the "glowing red sky." Am I way off in my interpretation here? I mean, one of the c's predictions was that "Arizona burns," which is where I live.


Bar Kochba, i am getting the impression that you have some kind of Fear program running inside your head about whether you are going to 4d or not.

And you also seem to forget that the future is ''open'', Arizona burning could be a possible reality, the future is not written on stone.
 

kenlee

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
dant said:
How does plan for favourable outcomes with the least damage
to everyone including themselves, when it takes time to gauge
the situation as it unfolds and to know there is a "support
group" on hand? In other words, how do you *know* that
LIKE attracts LIKE, they are "with you", that you can depend
on it?

Besides, has anyone thought of the possibility that these
"hoodlums" might carrying weapons (knife, gun, tazer, bomb,
num-chucks, brass-knuckles, box-cutters, take your pick), if
so, how do you plan your strategy? Instinct to act without
regard to one's or others safety is a favourable outcome?
Do you: "Let the chips fall where they land", at random,
not knowing what outcome will be?

Even if that was the case and they possibly were carrying weapons the people on the bus can still show that they are not intimidated (even if they were scared and it’s certainly understandable that they would be. I know I would be scared). But one must begin somewhere and although you can’t really know for sure if the others would join you in showing your lack of intimidation, at least you yourself could show the proper ‘stance’ (i.e., “I’m not intimidated, even if I get punched I won’t be intimidated”). Then it’ll give strength to the others as well. Possibilities can open up at that point. If the bus driver also shows that he isn’t intimidated and stands up and says that he called the police then I think this will increase the odds that the hoodlums will just get off the bus (and the cops can get’em later). This doesn’t mean that the people on the bus have to actually fight (if they should fear that there are weapons) but they won’t give those bums their fear…something that they were looking for.
 
B

Bar Kochba

Guest
It is entirely correct that I fear for my children in this possible future. When I became a parent, suddenly I began truth-seeking in earnest. I don't want them to suffer - not in any possible future.
 
Top Bottom