Question about the C's comments on the 'alien invasion scenario'

[Bar Kochba]

Perhaps some ppl are equipped mentally to deal with unexpected, violent situations, and some just aren't. Some are afraid, some don't care (not their problem), and some can think fast and react fast, w/out trepidation. Criminals seek out certain kinds of targets.

 

[dant]

BK:

Perhaps one ought not to let fear dominate, as it
limits/contracts one's objectivity, instead, stay
focused to objective reality, and when appropriate,
pass selective learned lessons to your children, but
without violating their free-will?

 

[Bo]

It is entirely correct that I fear for my children in this possible future. When I became a parent, suddenly I began truth-seeking in earnest. I don't want them to suffer - not in any possible future.

Bar Kochba, have you read this thread, maybe it can give you a better understanding.

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3113.0 - The effect of the Wave/4th D transition on children ?


Bar Kochba,

I don't have any children, but I can partially understand that fear is your motivation to seek knowledge, but somehow i got the feeling that you are forcing the issue, and when you are forcing yourself to do certain stuff, you might go astray and do more harm then good.

My advice to you would be, learn how to keep your head cool, finish the wave and the adventure series, and read the thread I gave you, hopefully it will clear some of your fears.

The more we increase our knowledge about our fears, the more we understand about it, and then we will know more clearly about how to deal with it.

 

[PepperFritz]

I don't want them to suffer - not in any possible future....

We are all here to learn, whether it be in 3rd density or 4th density. There is no other purpose for the universe, it is one big school. And learning usually involves suffering, as per Laura's signature:

He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
-- Agamemnon; Aeschylus

Your children are individual souls with their own histories, karma, and lessons to learn. They are not their bodies, nor are they extensions of their parents. Whether the Wave happens or not, whether your children transition to 4th density or continue in 3rd density, lessons -- and the suffering that often accompanies those lessons -- will continue to be the only reason for their existence. The transition to 4th density is not an "escape" from suffering, only an escape from the conditions of 3rd density. The conditions of 4th density will have their own challenges, lessons, and -- yes -- suffering....

 

[Laura]

Perhaps some ppl are equipped mentally to deal with unexpected, violent situations, and some just aren't. Some are afraid, some don't care (not their problem), and some can think fast and react fast, w/out trepidation. Criminals seek out certain kinds of targets.

I know exactly how you feel. In fact, I do what I do because I wanted to know what to tell my children about the world and life, etc. And then, when things obviously started going South, the activity shifted somewhat because I wanted to do all I could to help my children to cope with the world they would inherit when I am gone.

My "truth seeking" was given a REAL kick when I had my first baby!

 

[Bar Kochba]

I have read the wave, the adventure series, and almost everything else available here. I've been hanging around since 2006, and it seems only recently have I begun to "get it." But it's very hard for me to accept that my children may suffer, esp if I can prevent it. That may be 3d thinking, but the mere thought of my children suffering distresses me. A program that is difficult to overcome indeed.

 

[Bar Kochba]

I have concentrated more on the esoteric reading on the suggested list, but have begun to get some of the psychology books. "Trapped in the Mirror" is opening my eyes to things I thought I already knew, if you know what I mean. ;)

 

[Gwelan (too)]

Is pacifism(non-violence) an STO response and non-pacifism
(violence) an STS response or can both forms be used
accordingly (choose/give according to its due)?

It seems to me that violence, or non-violence, are not values, just ways of acting. The STO or STS appreciation should rather be based on motivations : there is a care, or there is no.

What could we think about someone who says he cares but do nothing ?

 

[slowone]

Hi,
I think you gave the answer yourself :) That's the 3rd force: There's good, there's bad, and there's the specific situation which determines which is which. In one case violence will be STS, in another it will be STO. And the same for non-violence. I think it depends on your motives. Sometimes violence is right: to protect an innocent for example. You act out of "righteous anger".
My 2 cents anyway.

NB : your question makes me think of a video which has been spreading on the "French" internet for a few days. An agression filmed by the Big Brother' camera in a bus (very efficient isn't it). We see a man getting attacked by 4 guys who steal his purse. He tries to get it back but then gets beaten up for several minutes. A couple of people try to protest and gets beaten as well. Now, the bus driver does nothing during all the time it happens. And most people in the bus don't react either. These guys didn't seem to be armed or whatever. In that case, I really don't think it's STO to just stay there and don't move a finger. I don't say I'm "better" than these other people, I probably would have been too scared, like them, to do anything. Still, imagine if all the people in the bus reacted to protect the attacked guy. Same on a big level : if all the people united NOT to fight the psychopaths but to protect eachother from them.
Sorry for the digression.

I have enjoyed reading this thread very much. I watched the video of the violence on the bus and I could feel my anxiety rising just watching it. It rasied all kinds of responses. I found myself especially angry that it was a woman initially who was the only person to step forward and get beaten for it. I guess one of my programs expects/hopes that it would be a man who would be stepping up first.

I have already been thinking about the issue of "standing up" against violent behaviour in reading about the deaths of people who do so. Quite often it is to protect their children or other people not themselves. This would appear to me to be a STO reaction although what is actually going through their minds when they do it you couldn't tell as they aren't here anymore to explain.

Perhaps we all have to face that choice in one of our incarnations, to risk death in the face of violent confrontation for something we believe in/love. I know for a fact that I am not very "brave" or physically strong. I hope that I have the courage to stand up in the face of that kind of intimidation if only so that I can live in a world where I and other people feel empowered enough to do so when "needed". I have 3 children and that video just reminds me that the victim could be anyone of us.

 

[spyraal]

Thank you also for this thread.

Recently i watched a Greek documentary about an imprisoned woman who stood up publicly against the inhuman custom of the "vaginal cavity search" that women prisoners have to put up with every time they enter or exit a prison for any reason. The whole process was accompanied by cruel and disgracing comments by the female officers who conducted the "search" using a gynaecologist's bed, and a lot of male guards watching and "having fun" on the occasion. Then she mysteriously "died" just 15 days before finishing her sentence and being released, during an unjustified transfer to another prison, under strange circumstances... Among other things, the reporter interviewed her daughter and asked: "What do you remember most from your late mother?". And she replied : "She told me to always speak up and never silence when i come across an injustice, because then i will become one of them". I think that phrase, coming from the mouth of a woman who suffered an awful lot, summarizes my view in a very plain way...

In that sense, regarding situations like in this terrible video in the bus, i only hope that in case i witness a similar event, i will keep my strength and i will not dirt my consciousness with the stain of silence...

:)

 

[GroupConduit]

I don't want them to suffer - not in any possible future....

We are all here to learn, whether it be in 3rd density or 4th density. There is no other purpose for the universe, it is one big school. And learning usually involves suffering, as per Laura's signature:

He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
-- Agamemnon; Aeschylus

Your children are individual souls with their own histories, karma, and lessons to learn. They are not their bodies, nor are they extensions of their parents. Whether the Wave happens or not, whether your children transition to 4th density or continue in 3rd density, lessons -- and the suffering that often accompanies those lessons -- will continue to be the only reason for their existence. The transition to 4th density is not an "escape" from suffering, only an escape from the conditions of 3rd density. The conditions of 4th density will have their own challenges, lessons, and -- yes -- suffering....

Suffer is a mater of perspective, who says suffering is viewed the same in 4th density as it is in 3rd density. Are you totally sure on your statement? Doesnt Knowledge-awareness remove the need for suffering?

Suffer occurs with imbalance when in balance how can it be suffering, it is say a cosmic kick as to something isnt right notice all suffering Laura has edured but it all lead to learning something the suffering itself is imbalances, reconition of it is what progresses to awareness.

Sure a 4th density STS experience will have more suffering as will a 3rd density STS repeat but do you not think that a STO 4th density experience may not have the need for the lesson of suffering why would you need it when there is no reason to suffer you are already in balance.

Some food for thought...

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Suffer is a mater of perspective, who says suffering is viewed the same in 4th density as it is in 3rd density. Are you totally sure on your statement? Doesnt Knowledge-awareness remove the need for suffering?

Yes, suffering is a matter of perspective. There is a difference between egocentric suffering and empathic suffering, for example; a difference between unilevel suffering and multilevel suffering; unconscious and conscious suffering. Lessons are learned via suffering. To remove suffering negates the possibility of learning lessons. Even Ra called 6D STO the "brothers and sisters of sorrow".

Suffer occurs with imbalance when in balance how can it be suffering, it is say a cosmic kick as to something isnt right notice all suffering Laura has edured but it all lead to learning something the suffering itself is imbalances, reconition of it is what progresses to awareness.

To be "in balance", to be "in equilibrium" on this planet, one must be adapted to life on this planet, i.e. psychopathic. If an individual does not suffer, the only conclusion I can draw is that they have advanced very far on the path of STS. To live on this world and not to suffer is to not have a soul.

 

[mkrnhr]

To be "in balance", to be "in equilibrium" on this planet, one must be adapted to life on this planet, i.e. psychopathic. If an individual does not suffer, the only conclusion I can draw is that they have advanced very far on the path of STS. To live on this world and not to suffer is to not have a soul.

In other words, the only way to live happy in this world is to not have a heart (a soul)...

 

[PepperFritz]

Hello GroupConduit:

Welcome to the forum. Seeing as this is your first post, we would appreciate it if you would post a brief intro about yourself in the Newbies section, telling us how you found this forum, how long you've been reading it and/or the SOTT page, whether or not you've read any of Laura's books yet, etc.

Are you totally sure on your statement?

None of us can be "totally sure" when speaking about the characteristics of 4th density, since we are not there yet!

Doesnt Knowledge-awareness remove the need for suffering?

Presumably, once one has learned everything there is to know, and has completely dispensed with "lessons". The question is, why would you assume that lessons and learning would no longer be necessary at the 4th-density STO level?

Suffer occurs with imbalance when in balance how can it be suffering.... do you not think that a STO 4th density experience may not have the need for the lesson of suffering why would you need it when there is no reason to suffer you are already in balance.

The Cassiopaea material speaks of the 4th-density STO entity being "balanced" in the sense that it "serves self through others". However, to my knowledge, there is nothing in the material that suggests that suffering is simply the result of "imbalance" or lack of awareness/lknowledge. The C's state over and over again that the one and only purpose of existence in this universe (at ALL densities, not just 3rd) is "lessons", and indicate that one of the catalysts intentionally used by entities in lesson-learning is "pain" and "suffering". Since there are still lessons to be learned at the 4th-density STO level, it would follow that such catalysts are utlized there as well, for the same purpose.

However, the "Ra" material suggests that in 4th density there is significant less use of "physical pain" as a catalyst, even though other forms of "suffering" are still at play:

Questioner: In the next density, the fourth density, is the catalyst of physical pain used as a mechanism for experiential balancing?

Ra: I am Ra. The use of physical pain is minimal, having only to do with the end of the fourth-density incarnation. This physical pain would not be considered severe enough to treat, shall we say, in third density. The catalysts of mental and spiritual pain are used in fourth density.

Questioner: Why is physical pain a part of the end of fourth density?

Ra: I am Ra. You would call this variety of pain weariness.

Suffer is a mater of perspective....

Well, we certainly need to be clear on what we mean when we speak of "suffering". I think you'll find the following entry in the Cassiopaea Glossary helpful in that clarification: Suffering: Conscious and Mechanical.

I look forward to your introduction in the Newbies section!

:)

 

[GroupConduit]

None of us can be "totally sure" when speaking about the characteristics of 4th density, since we are not there yet!

Yes true, but in another context you already are there.

Presumably, once one has learned everything there is to know, and has completely dispensed with "lessons". The question is, why would you assume that lessons and learning would no longer be necessary at the 4th-density STO level?

I didnt asume there wouldnt be any need for lessons or learning, I simply said the concept suffering would not be viewed the same as it is in 3rd density as the knowledge and awareness acquired in 4th density would change the perspective we currently hold "reminds me of the story of joan of Ark how she experienced her suffering as pleasure as burned at the stake".

The Cassiopaea material speaks of the 4th-density STO entity being "balanced" in the sense that it "serves self through others". However, to my knowledge, there is nothing in the material that suggests that suffering is simply the result of "imbalance" or lack of awareness/lknowledge. The C's state over and over again that the one and only purpose of existence in this universe (at ALL densities, not just 3rd) is "lessons", and indicate that one of the catalysts intentionally used by entities in lesson-learning is "pain" and "suffering". Since there are still lessons to be learned at the 4th-density STO level, it would follow that such catalysts are utlized there as well, for the same purpose.

They did say catalysts accelerate the learning process "that suggests thou a reason for it to be accelerated" which could be because of the ignorance which makes the need for lessons to adjust the balance to a more aware perspective. Yes but it has also been said gravity is the equalizer "the balancer" So could it be wrong to presume that more in balance you are closer you are to God so would you not suffer less or percieve suffering much different than while you were stuck in darkness?

Also C's have also said it is all for fun and that the sum of the universe is also you.

However, the "Ra" material suggests that in 4th density there is significant less use of "physical pain" as a catalyst, even though other forms of "suffering" are still at play:

Questioner: In the next density, the fourth density, is the catalyst of physical pain used as a mechanism for experiential balancing?

Ra: I am Ra. The use of physical pain is minimal, having only to do with the end of the fourth-density incarnation. This physical pain would not be considered severe enough to treat, shall we say, in third density. The catalysts of mental and spiritual pain are used in fourth density.

Questioner: Why is physical pain a part of the end of fourth density?

Ra: I am Ra. You would call this variety of pain weariness.

Yes true but it would not be viewed the same from 4th density as it is from 3rd density.

Well, we certainly need to be clear on what we mean when we speak of "suffering". I think you'll find the following entry in the Cassiopaea Glossary helpful in that clarification: Suffering: Conscious and Mechanical.

I look forward to your introduction in the Newbies section!

:)

will read link provided to see your perspective on suffering.