Quinton Plasma/Water, or "percutaneous hydrotomy"

[worldbridger]

:)……yes, a 7 would be like a draining pipe.

Good luck!

 

[Ant22]

:)……yes, a 7 would be like a draining pipe.

Well, if my veins were the size of draining pipes I'd need a tap rather than a needle

Good luck!

Thanks worldbridger, do report on your progress, I hope it goes well for you!

 

[Joe]

It is furiously interesting to me how the blood itself changes from one week to the next. It can go from thick and viscous (probably not a good state), and almost black, to thin and watery (good) and more red within a few weeks.

The different thickness etc. of the blood may be due to how hydrated the person is at any particular time. Less hydrated = thicker blood and thinner blood = more hydrated. So there may not be much to tell from the changing consistency of the blood other than hydration levels.

 

[Gaby]

The needle was tiny and thin, not a chance it was 18G or thicker.

Other than the gauge (the "thickness") of the needle, the length is usually 40mm to make sure it reaches the muscle. Anything smaller in length will only reach the subcutaneous tissue. The needles used for percutaneous hydrotomy are even smaller because they only reach the deepest layers of the skin.

 

[Ant22]

Other than the gauge (the "thickness") of the needle, the length is usually 40mm to make sure it reaches the muscle. Anything smaller in length will only reach the subcutaneous tissue. The needles used for percutaneous hydrotomy are even smaller because they only reach the deepest layers of the skin.

Thank you Gaby, that's useful. I found some info about the subcutaneous tissue / fat depth on buttocks (although in a different context). I guess if the needle goes 2.5-3 cm in that should be about right.

https://www.bd.com/resource.aspx?IDX=18065

Mean subcutaneous thickness was: arm 10.8 mm, thigh 10.4 mm, abdomen 13.9 mm and buttocks 15.4 mm. Subcutaneous thickness in females was 5.1 mm greater than in males. Differences of 10 kg/m2 account for a difference of 4 mm subcutaneous thickness.

This site provides the same subcutaneous adipose layer thickness: Skin and subcutaneous adipose layer thickness in adults with diabetes at sites used for insulin injections: implications for needle length recommen... - PubMed - NCBI

The different thickness etc. of the blood may be due to how hydrated the person is at any particular time. Less hydrated = thicker blood and thinner blood = more hydrated. So there may not be much to tell from the changing consistency of the blood other than hydration levels.

Sounds like a good motivation to stay hydrated

 

[Esote]

Yes, you draw the blood out and inject it back in with same syringe and needle. And of course, you do a good alcohol wipe before each and have a bandage to put on immediately after you finish the draw.

....

From a French nurse article about AHT and other sources on the Web, it doesn't say "draw the blood out and inject it back in with same syringe and needle", but the advice is to replace the small needle used to draw the blood out from a vein by an intramuscular needle to inject the blood back in the buttocks...
What would be the best way to do it ?

 

[Joe]

From a French nurse article about AHT and other sources on the Web, it doesn't say "draw the blood out and inject it back in with same syringe and needle", but the advice is to replace the small needle used to draw the blood out from a vein by an intramuscular needle to inject the blood back in the buttocks...
What would be the best way to do it ?

While we don't think that's necessary, if you want to, you can simply replace the needle on the end of the syringe with a new one.

 

[Gaby]

If you are using a small needle to withdraw the blood, you can later replace it with an intramuscular needle. If you are skinny, you can get away with a smaller length, but usually 40mm in length is good for all people.

The hydration factor is something to keep in mind in the thickness of the blood, but it is also true that inflammatory and other personal factors will have an influence on how it looks. Those with high platelets in their blood should have thicker blood regardless of hydration. People who take blood thinners should have water-like blood, but apparently that is not always the case.

Writing down the thickness of the blood in your database will provide long-term data for analysis. In general, is a good idea to write down the date, which type of needle you used, and which arm you used to withdraw the blood and where did you injected it. To that, you add the description of the blood: how much blood was used, was it very dark or brighter in color, too thick or more thin?, etc. After awhile, you might notice a pattern which you can correlate to your health.

 

[Gaby]

People who take blood thinners should have water-like blood, but apparently that is not always the case.

I should add that those taking sintrom, warfarin and the new potent blood thinners such as pradaxa, eliquis and xarelto should not have an intramuscular injection. It is known in mainstream circles that potent blood thinners are a contraindication for intramuscular injections because the injections can create an hematoma that never gets reabsorbed or coagulated. Nurses will simply refuse to give an intramusclar injection unless it is signed or prescribed by a doctor.

In general, an elderly person taking potent blood thinners and who bruises easily even at the slightest touch should not have intramuscular injections. Subcutaneous injections will also be problematic.

In the past, when I was a heart surgery resident, people were more flexible with these rules. We knew that a person taking sintrom could have an intramuscular injection without much risk. It is true that back then hardly anybody past the age of 80 took potent blood thinners. Unfortunately that is not the case now.

 

[Chu]

If you are using a small needle to withdraw the blood, you can later replace it with an intramuscular needle. If you are skinny, you can get away with a smaller length, but usually 40mm in length is good for all people.

The hydration factor is something to keep in mind in the thickness of the blood, but it is also true that inflammatory and other personal factors will have an influence on how it looks. Those with high platelets in their blood should have thicker blood regardless of hydration. People who take blood thinners should have water-like blood, but apparently that is not always the case.

Writing down the thickness of the blood in your database will provide long-term data for analysis. In general, is a good idea to write down the date, which type of needle you used, and which arm you used to withdraw the blood and where did you injected it. To that, you add the description of the blood: how much blood was used, was it very dark or brighter in color, too thick or more thin?, etc. After awhile, you might notice a pattern which you can correlate to your health.

Interesting, thanks! I have noticed a pattern for myself and others, indeed. At the beginning, or after a 3 week break, my blood is always dark and thick. But after the third or fourth session, it becomes red and thin, which I assume is always a good sign. Since I noticed that pattern, I haven't wanted to take any breaks. And I feel so much better that if I wait more than 8 days, I "miss it" (not the deed itself, but the benefits!)

 

[3DStudent]

I still do since I'm not sure whether Quinton water can completely replace salty water in detoxing from halides. What if you try to alternate Quinton and salty water? If you drink salty water in the morning and in the evening, you could cut out the morning dose and drink Quinton instead (on empty stomach, 20-30 minutes before breakfast).

I've started the isotonic vials and I just skip the salt in the morning. In the evening I just push the salt an hour ahead. I noticed that when breaking the vials I hear a piece of glass sometimes fall off. So it seems a good idea to wet wipe up the surface where you break them.

Hola, me gustaría compartir otra experiencia con quinton hipertónico. Tuve una idea y estoy experimentando con ella. No sé si alguien más está probando esto, porque no he leído todo el tema.
Hace aproximadamente dos semanas empecé a sentir sensibilidad en unas cuantas piezas dentales al lavarme los dientes. Entonces pensé en utilizar como colutorio quinton hipertónico antes de dormir. Mi método no es agitar el líquido. Más bien es como inundar la cavidad bucal con el agua de mar (10 ml), lo dejo estar ahí sobre 15 minutos. El líquido se desplaza con suavidad dentro de la boca, los tejidos y musculatura que conforman la cavidad bucal y el fluido en sí, creo yo, hacen eso. Yo solo trato de observar. Cuando termino no trago el líquido.
La sensibilidad dental al contacto con el cepillo de dientes ha desaparecido, y las encías lucen mejor por la mañana. Esa es mi experiencia.
Mi idea al iniciar este procedimiento era que el agua de mar podía remineralizar el esmalte dental allí donde estuviera dañado o débil al igual que producir algún tipo de intercambio o absorción de elementos que pudiera ayudar a la salud dental.
Si alguien más decide probar con ésto, podría contar también como fue su experiencia, si lo desea.


Hi, I would like to share another experience with hypertonic quinton. I had an idea and I am experimenting with it. I do not know if anyone else is testing this, because I have not read the whole subject.
About two weeks ago, I began to feel sensitivity in a few teeth when I brushed my teeth. Then I thought about using a hypertonic quinton mouthwash before going to sleep. My method is not to stir the liquid. Rather it is like flooding the oral cavity with seawater (10 ml), I let it be there in about 15 minutes. The fluid moves smoothly inside the mouth, the tissues and muscles that make up the oral cavity and the fluid itself, I think, do that. I just try to observe. When I finish I do not drink the liquid.
The tooth sensitivity to contact with the toothbrush has disappeared, and the gums look better in the morning. That is my experience.
My idea when starting this procedure was that seawater could remineralize the tooth enamel where it was damaged or weak as well as produce some kind of exchange or absorption of elements that could help dental health.
If someone else decides to try this, you could also tell how your experience was, if you wish..

Muchas gracias for this! I will try this next after I'm done with the isotonic in about two weeks. I've had sensitive teeth for a few years now and try to stay away from too hot or too cold foods, as well as acidic foods. I've tried a few things without any luck and just manage it and try not to do more damage. Any reason that you do not swallow the hypertonic water? That seems wasteful, and unlike oil pulling with coconut oil where you swish it around your mouth and likely get particles of food and bacteria mixed in it. But it might be a good idea to spit it out for me, because it seems that hypertonic was the more stimulating of the two.

 

[hiker]

I should add that those taking sintrom, warfarin and the new potent blood thinners such as pradaxa, eliquis and xarelto should not have an intramuscular injection. It is known in mainstream circles that potent blood thinners are a contraindication for intramuscular injections because the injections can create an hematoma that never gets reabsorbed or coagulated. Nurses will simply refuse to give an intramusclar injection unless it is signed or prescribed by a doctor.

In general, an elderly person taking potent blood thinners and who bruises easily even at the slightest touch should not have intramuscular injections. Subcutaneous injections will also be problematic.

In the past, when I was a heart surgery resident, people were more flexible with these rules. We knew that a person taking sintrom could have an intramuscular injection without much risk. It is true that back then hardly anybody past the age of 80 took potent blood thinners. Unfortunately that is not the case now.

Good to know, thanks for that information Gaby!

Buttocks: Expose one side of the buttocks. With an alcohol wipe draw a line from the top of the crack between the buttocks to the side of the body. Find the middle of that line and go up 3 inches. From that point, draw another line down and across the first line, ending about halfway down the buttock. You should have drawn a cross. In the upper outer square you will feel a curved bone. The injection will go in the upper outer square below the curved bone. Do not use this site for infants or children younger than 3 years old. Their muscles are not developed enough.

View attachment 28594
I like mine a little lower, but not much. Putting it as described above pretty much guarantees that you'll miss anything you shouldn't hit which is important for skinny folks.

I have found it also more convenient to do the injection a little lower into the upper outer quadrant of the gluteal muscle.

When starting doing the AHT injections, I held a smaller mirror in my hand and viewed my backside from a larger mirror that was situated behind me. Then I drew a cross on the skin of the glute (to be injected) with a felt-tip pen, determining the right area, upper outer quadrant. I found that by doing the injection slightly lower in the upper outer quadrant, right below a thicker, more "sinewy" part of the glute muscle, is more comfortable. Of course there can be anatomical variations, and it might not work for everyone.

Here is an instructive video about the location:

 

[Ant22]

I wanted to give an update regarding my experience with autohemotherapy and ask a couple of questions, if that's OK.

I have now had 4 injections, 3 done by a nurse and one administered by myself. I have no negative symptoms to report and as for positive ones, it's a bit hard to say. One thing that certainly was different was that I was able to handle quite decent amount of 'normal' food (within reason, gluten, dairy, tomatoes and most grains are still a no-no). My meat intake needs to be quite high, too many cabs (or wrong carbs) and I get ridiculously fatigued. Yet throughout my Christmas I had cake daily (gluten and dairy free though) and I was OK. Christmas dishes at home are quite carby and I was able to have them too without issues. Initially I didn't put it down to AHT but to probiotics an Applied Kinesiologist I visited in December prescribed me. But coincidentally, I felt a bit unwell on day 8 after the first injection, which is when I had my second one done, so the improvement may in fact be related to AHT.

Last night I did my own AHT for the first time. The biggest difficulty was being scared of needles due to really bad experience with them in my childhood. In fact, I never even saw the process of drawing blood until my first AHT: I always used to look away with a slight feeling of terror.

I think using the butterfly needle with a 30cm tube was helpful too, as it gave me quite a bit of flexibility and manipulating the syringe didn't move the needle. The fact that blood clots quickly was very motivating to get this done without much overthinking, and the muscular injection turned out to be the easiest part.

However, not everything went very well. I intended to draw 6ml of blood and I inserted the needle to around 5 millimeters into the vain, but the needle popped out of my vein at around 2ml. I was so focused on the syringe that I wasn't paying attention to the needle. The instructions say the tourniquet needs to be removed before the needle comes out and I think I learned why this is the case. I now have a bruise on my arm and a blood stain on my carpet.

What helped me not to panic was the fact that I watched the instructions video a couple of times, to the point I could visualise myself doing it. I also diligently went through each step of the video before actually injecting the needle into my vein so I felt like I knew what I was doing.

I still have a couple of questions:

• I only injected just over 1.5ml intramuscularly last night, do you think I should wait another week before repeating the procedure on another arm? Or would it be better to do it again in a day or two and inject more blood for a better healing effect? My previous injections were 3ml, and 6ml.
• How long does a vein take to heal? How often can blood be drawn from the same vein?
• Should I choose different spots on the veins and different veins to avoid damage? I have two very visible veins on, one on each arm, sousing other veins will be a bit of a challenge.
• If there is a bruise, should I wait until it's gone before drawing blood that arm? (I now have bruises on both arms, one from last night, and one form the previous procedure)

I know there are doctors and nurses here who may think AHT is really not a big deal, and I agree that it isn't - objectively speaking. But my subjective little self now feels like a Hogwarts graduate

 

[mariowil7]

I wanted to give an update regarding my experience with autohemotherapy and ask a couple of questions, if that's OK.

I have now had 4 injections, 3 done by a nurse and one administered by myself. I have no negative symptoms to report and as for positive ones, it's a bit hard to say. One thing that certainly was different was that I was able to handle quite decent amount of 'normal' food (within reason, gluten, dairy, tomatoes and most grains are still a no-no). My meat intake needs to be quite high, too many cabs (or wrong carbs) and I get ridiculously fatigued. Yet throughout my Christmas I had cake daily (gluten and dairy free though) and I was OK. Christmas dishes at home are quite carby and I was able to have them too without issues. Initially I didn't put it down to AHT but to probiotics an Applied Kinesiologist I visited in December prescribed me. But coincidentally, I felt a bit unwell on day 8 after the first injection, which is when I had my second one done, so the improvement may in fact be related to AHT.

Last night I did my own AHT for the first time. The biggest difficulty was being scared of needles due to really bad experience with them in my childhood. In fact, I never even saw the process of drawing blood until my first AHT: I always used to look away with a slight feeling of terror.

I think using the butterfly needle with a 30cm tube was helpful too, as it gave me quite a bit of flexibility and manipulating the syringe didn't move the needle. The fact that blood clots quickly was very motivating to get this done without much overthinking, and the muscular injection turned out to be the easiest part.

However, not everything went very well. I intended to draw 6ml of blood and I inserted the needle to around 5 millimeters into the vain, but the needle popped out of my vein at around 2ml. I was so focused on the syringe that I wasn't paying attention to the needle. The instructions say the tourniquet needs to be removed before the needle comes out and I think I learned why this is the case. I now have a bruise on my arm and a blood stain on my carpet.

What helped me not to panic was the fact that I watched the instructions video a couple of times, to the point I could visualise myself doing it. I also diligently went through each step of the video before actually injecting the needle into my vein so I felt like I knew what I was doing.

I still have a couple of questions:

• I only injected just over 1.5ml intramuscularly last night, do you think I should wait another week before repeating the procedure on another arm? Or would it be better to do it again in a day or two and inject more blood for a better healing effect? My previous injections were 3ml, and 6ml.
• How long does a vein take to heal? How often can blood be drawn from the same vein?
• Should I choose different spots on the veins and different veins to avoid damage? I have two very visible veins on, one on each arm, sousing other veins will be a bit of a challenge.
• If there is a bruise, should I wait until it's gone before drawing blood that arm? (I now have bruises on both arms, one from last night, and one form the previous procedure)

I know there are doctors and nurses here who may think AHT is really not a big deal, and I agree that it isn't - objectively speaking. But my subjective little self now feels like a Hogwarts graduate

Hi Ant22 here is my take on your questions, from my experince of making AHT (My wife is a Nurse student - Technical level.)

I only injected just over 1.5ml intramuscularly last night, do you think I should wait another week before repeating the procedure on another arm? Or would it be better to do it again in a day or two and inject more blood for a better healing effect? My previous injections were 3ml, and 6ml.

I suggest wait another week or two, even with an small amount it is better to let nature do its part. But here is the method/Procedure we do here with me.:

How long does a vein take to heal? How often can blood be drawn from the same vein?

From our observation a week (7 days is ok) but as a safe measure we did the following:

a) 1 week take blood from the Left Arm veins (Basilic vein or Cephalic vein.)
Apply the blood in the Right Arm (Intramuscular part)

b) 2 week take blood from the Left Hand (Tendon) in the Extensor Retinaculum area veins (Superficial veins or Basilic veins, Cephalic veins, Dorsal Metacarpal veins.)
Apply the blood in the Right Gluteous (Intramuscular part Upper outer quadrant)

c) 3 week take blood from the Right Arm veins (Basilic vein or Cephalic vein.)
Apply the blood in the Left Arm (Intramuscular part)

d) 4 week take blood from the Right Hand (Tendon) in the Extensor Retinaculum area veins (Superficial veins or Basilic veins, Cephalic veins, Dorsal Metacarpal veins)
Apply the blood in the Left Gluteous (Intramuscular part Upper outer quadrant)

In that way you will take blood from each vein once every three weeks if you rotate the procedure and will end up applying to the intramuscular parts every three weeks too...
With that you will be always in the safe side in relation to allow the veins to heal safely and conservatively.

Should I choose different spots on the veins and different veins to avoid damage? I have two very visible veins on, one on each arm, sousing other veins will be a bit of a challenge.

If playing in the very safe side YES...

If there is a bruise, should I wait until it's gone before drawing blood that arm? (I now have bruises on both arms, one from last night, and one form the previous procedure)

If the bruise takes too long to vanish ok, but remember you have your Tendon hands to take blood too...
One thing that I observed is that the bruises (rarely happens with me) vanish fast (3 days) after being in the AHT for some weeks now.

Well as usual be careful with the ARTERIES do not mess with them... Just my two cents!...

 

[Alana]

Ant22, I haven't done the procedure on myself or others yet, but regarding the bruises, I get them too everytime. And I found that the fastest way to make them go away was to rub some arnica oil on the spot and then on top, some DMSO cream.