Reader claims: "#OCCUPYWALLSTREET IS COINTELPRO"

[DGF]

Who's motto is it, "Out of Kaos comes Order" Hmm.

 

[D Rusak]

I happened to be in San Diego for a gig two weekends ago and the protesters there walked by...had a brief moment to chat them up and they seemed like genial folks. A funeral called me back to the east coast unfortunately...so on my way back to the airport today I had a day in my old city, Philadelphia, with friends. One person who I was very close to is involved to a fair degree there and in NYC...he was on the bridge in Brooklyn during that famous video. He said he was in the back so he was able to escape, if he had been in the middle of the march he would have been arrested for sure. I guess that whole incident has been discussed a lot. Things in Philadelphia, like other cities, are showing a good deal of diversity in the types and backgrounds of people who are showing up, although the movement is slower there and less organized as of yet. From what I saw though they are keeping the area near City Hall clean and organized, and are staying within the areas assigned (a good portion of the area around the buildings). The mayor issued a statement to the effect that the city is fine with it and not discouraging anyone from their free speech rights, as of yet anyway. A lot of people, at least in Philadelphia, are making their way down, just whenever they can, if only for a few minutes. I haven't talked to ANYONE yet who doesn't support the movement at least in part, really surprised since people who usually are very conservative or skeptical of such things seem to be interested and supportive. I guess a line in the country's collective whatever has been crossed maybe? Another good friend who's been politically aware if not active for decades said he has been to the protests every day and hasn't seen anything like this since the Vietnam protests, FWIW.

I think one of the strengths of the movement really is the fact that there are no set demands such as, you do x, we will leave. Honestly perhaps that is one of the scariest things perhaps the movement can do, just be relentless in the faces of TPTB and grow the collective consciousness. Next step is really learning more about ponerology and psychopaths, we shall see if that happens, who knows. Anyway I hope to check things out back here on the west coast in LA at some point, my school studies though are really a lot right now (good and bad I suppose )

 

[Nawd]

Who's motto is it, "Out of Kaos comes Order" Hmm.

Are you enjoying yourself?

 

[RflctnOfU]

As I once said before, An ant is a pest...an army of ants can take down the largest of beasts

Kris

 

[DGF]

Who's motto is it, "Out of Kaos comes Order" Hmm.

Are you enjoying yourself?

No not really. I'm just pointing out how things are. Marxism was coopted and corrupted into communism, America was coopted and controlled so if there's any doubt OWS won't be treated the same, then one hasn't learned from history.

 

[anart]

Who's motto is it, "Out of Kaos comes Order" Hmm.

Are you enjoying yourself?

No not really. I'm just pointing out how things are. Marxism was coopted and corrupted into communism, America was coopted and controlled so if there's any doubt OWS won't be treated the same, then one hasn't learned from history.

Hi DGF, your posts of late have been consistently 'arguing for argument's sake' and in several instances, a violation of forum guidelines. No one here has ever said that the current movement won't be co-opted - you're missing the crux of the matter. Your account has been blocked from posting.

 

[luke wilson]

To be fair, this movement is sort of happening...

Latest from occupy London..

_http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/16/occupy-london-protest-st-pauls

In their stand against mammon, protesters occupying St Paul's churchyard to vent anger at reckless bankers found heartwarming support emanating from the house of God.

Far from requesting that the 300-strong crowd be removed from the cathedral steps on Sunday , the Rev Dr Giles Fraser, canon chancellor of St Paul's, requested that the police themselves move on as the Occupy London Stock Exchange protest entered its second day.

A line of officers had taken up position at the top of the steps to "protect" the building. "Which was very good of them," explained the canon. But then he had asked them if they would leave, "because I didn't feel that it needed that sort of protection".

And so those attending Sunday mass found themselves picking a path through the makeshift camp of around 100 tents erected at the foot of the cathedral's steps after Saturday's global day of action inspired by the US's Occupy Wall Street movement.

With the sermon of the day appropriately including a gospel reading about "God and money", the regular congregation was joined by some of the protesters. The canon had warned them the cathedral bells were "really loud", so it was an early start to their first full day of occupation.

An attempt on Saturday to set up camp outside the London Stock Exchange in nearby privately-owned Paternoster Square had been thwarted by police. But all the indications on Sunday were that a hard core of dedicated protesters were digging in for the long haul at St Paul's.

A field kitchen was being erected, offering basics donated by wellwishers. A first aid point was set up in front of a poster renaming the area as Tahrir Square. A media area, powered by a generator, was aiming to stream activities from the camp live on to the internet. A line of seven portable toilets had also been installed. "Pick up your litter" was one of the continual announcements over the camp's megaphone.

A spokesman said the purpose of the occupation was "to challenge the bankers and the financial institutions which recklessly gambled with the economy. This and 20 other occupations all around the UK have been directly inspired by what's happening all across America and especially in Wall Street."

Roy Alexander, 39, from Surrey, said: "We're planning to stay here indefinitely, we'll stay here and make a stand. I think we'll have more people join."

The protest indeed appeared to have struck a chord with many who were new to demonstrating. "I'm 40. Never been on a protest before. But I found myself here," said one man, who asked not to be named, from Sheffield. "I'm pretty middle of the road politically, so I wasn't sure about all the Socialist Workers placards at first. But this issue has attracted people from all walks of life. I'm a diehard atheist – there's a woman over there with a 'Jesus is Calling' placard. It's all of us."

Another on his first protest was Ollie Taylor, 23, from Aldershot. "I feel really, really strongly about this issue. I really think it is going to snowball." He, like many others, was having to leave the protest to return to his job, working in a photographic studio. But many pledged to return.

Police appeared relaxed, keeping a visible but low-key presence, and chatting and mingling with protesters. It was a different situation on Saturday, when an estimated 3,000-4,000 protesters converged on the cathedral. Supporters claimed a disproportionate amount of force was used and people were "kettled, grabbed and thrown off the steps forcefully".

The Metropolitan police said some "containment" had been in place to prevent a breach of the peace. Eight people were arrested, of whom six were charged with offences including affray and cannabis possession.

How long the camp will be allowed to stay remains to be seen. Asked about the impact it would have on businesses in the area, one shop supervisor said: "I can't imagine the shops in Paternoster Square are too happy about it – they haven't been able to open since yesterday."

As for the cathedral's blessing, the canon stressed that while he had not given specific backing to the occupation of St Paul's churchyard, he supported the democratic right to protest peacefully. "It's cold, isn't it going to be cold tonight?" he said. "We'll see how it goes. We're taking one day at a time and it's really good it's all worked out well for us today."

So far I don't get it, sort of different from other high profile protests in that it isn't disruptive... The protesters are all sort of camped out and just doing there thing...

However, Occupy Rome is where it's all going down - those italian hooligans know how to spoil a party...

_http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/16/rome-riot-damage-ringleaders-police

Occupy protest in Rome hijacked by rioters who cause damage put at €2m

Italian police search for ringleaders after bomb planted, cars set ablaze and shops looted by violent breakaway group

Sydney, Madrid, Frankfurt, Hong Kong, Sarajevo(Bosnia), Stockholm are also currently being 'occupied'. So far no news on France...

More info: _http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/16/occupy-protests-europe-london-assange - watch the video to get a feel of the atmosphere.. Even julian assange showed up...

 

[MK Scarlett]

Sydney, Madrid, Frankfurt, Hong Kong, Sarajevo(Bosnia), Stockholm are also currently being 'occupied'. So far no news on France...

More info: _http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/16/occupy-protests-europe-london-assange - watch the video to get a feel of the atmosphere.. Even julian assange showed up...

As French, I only can maybe explain why: in France, we have a well rooted tradition to demonstrate when we say it to us. Without leader, no demonstrations. We always have to swim against the current, for the better or not moreover... My parents made "Mai 68" with me when I was a little girl. Now I understood how "Mai 68" started and if I could tell it to my father, gone 18 months ago, I am not sure he would have believed me or wanted to believe me. I took my husband and my younger daughter with me on the last year to demonstrate on September and October; They had never made this kind of things, and they were stunned about the "energy" in it.

But I am surprised to see how this October, 15th was not follow in France... But not enough apparently (several hundreds in Paris - "Hôtel de Ville"). Maybe that the primary elections (on this Sunday) were for something there, but looking at all what I can read in French on the Web about how much there is something rotten in the Kingdom, it lets me without answer. Maybe French think "Occupy" ("Les Indignés", in French) is not also free they look to be. It is complicated for me to link these news, they are in French, but writing this, I am looking for what cans say today French about this Day.

Somebody suggests to read " La Psychologie des foules (The crowd psychology) " - Gustave Le Bon to understand…
"A crowd which has no clear objectives and which is not informed is a redoubtable weapon! The weapon of the good-safe elites…"

As I do not believe Wikileaks exists for us, people. I think it is a weapon too, at the end. Maybe I am wrong, but it is my feeling and while waiting for to have the other information that those to whom I have already had access, I maintains this position.

It deprives nothing of the respect which I have for all these persons who get up everywhere to say STOP, and there are several ways to say NO, demonstrate is not the only one, fortunately, even if this last one measures up!

 

[Guardian]

I'm a diehard atheist – there's a woman over there with a 'Jesus is Calling' placard. It's all of us."

Yup, that is exactly what makes these protests different. I went to a Charlie Daniels concert at the Indian Fair last week and when Charlie sang "In America" the sold out crowd was on their feet yelling:
"'Cause we'll all stick together, and you can take that to the bank. that's the cowboys and the Indians, and the rebels and the yanks!" He actually changed the song and repeated that line several times and you could feel the bleachers shaking. A friend told me later that you could hear the crowd yelling that line all the way down to Sanook village. There was every kind of person you can imagine in that crowd. Indian, Anglo, Asian, African, leaf'ers and locals, Christian, Pagan, Buddhist, etc. It was amazing.

People all across the board are fed up and want fundamental changes. I think we're all in agreement that the only way any real change in our societies can occur is if the psychopaths are recognized and exposed for exactly what they are, worldwide? I think we're watching the very beginning of that process..and I'm going to support OWS any way I can. I think the only thing that's going to get the protestors out of NYC and other metropolises will be winter, at least I hope they don't chose to freeze to death for the cause...we need them!

people were "kettled,

Can someone clarify this term for me please? When the European protestors say they were "Kettled" does that mean the same thing as when American protestors are "Corralled"?

Italian police search for ringleaders after bomb planted, cars set ablaze and shops looted by violent breakaway group

I'd bet every penny in my pocket that "breakaway group" was gov/corp hired.

So far no news on France...

I heard there were a couple of protestors in France, but they surrendered to a Meter Maid.

 

[Renaissance]

Somebody suggests to read " La Psychologie des foules (The crowd psychology) " - Gustave Le Bon to understand…
"A crowd which has no clear objectives and which is not informed is a redoubtable weapon! The weapon of the good-safe elites…"

I think Le Bon may be worth reading, but more for insight into the pathological mind. He has a pretty clear disdain for humanity. Aside from his views in The Crowd Psycychology, he's also known for his racists views as well as his contributions to the rise of Nazi and Fascist ideologies.

 

[Tigersoap]

Can someone clarify this term for me please? When the European protestors say they were "Kettled" does that mean the same thing as when American protestors are "Corralled"?

Yes Guardian.

from wikipedia :

Kettling, also known as containment or corralling,[1] is a police tactic for controlling large crowds during demonstrations or protests. It involves the formation of large cordons of police officers who then move to contain a crowd within a limited area. Protesters are left only one choice of exit, determined by the police, or are completely prevented from leaving. In some cases protesters are reported to have been denied access to food, water and toilet facilities for a long period.[2]

 

[MK Scarlett]

Somebody suggests to read " La Psychologie des foules (The crowd psychology) " - Gustave Le Bon to understand…
"A crowd which has no clear objectives and which is not informed is a redoubtable weapon! The weapon of the good-safe elites…"

I think Le Bon may be worth reading, but more for insight into the pathological mind. He has a pretty clear disdain for humanity. Aside from his views in The Crowd Psycychology, he's also known for his racists views as well as his contributions to the rise of Nazi and Fascist ideologies.

Oh! This sounds not good, you are right. If and when I read it, I shall remember this warning, thank you.

 

[luke wilson]

Yah I think winter will eventually drive them out! I actually agree with what you have to say Guardian that people of all backgrounds are united to bring forth change. However, I don't know how this desire will filter down into a workable plan that will actually bring forth the desired change.

For one, I was having a debate with a friend yesterday about this bank transfer day planned for November 5th and he said, 'well it doesn't matter where you are putting your money, as long as it's in a capitalistic institution, the greedy fat cats still have it.' In a way it is true and that is sort of the problem. It is kind of like, it really doesn't matter where you turn because no matter where you turn, you are still staring straight into the eye of this beast. So I don't know how this will lead to any real solutions that will filter down to average citizens. My dad also made an interesting point that, it doesn't even addreess the needs of the very bottom of society, the 'invisibles'. It is mainly middle class concerns with respect to Elites... So to use Obama's slogan, 'Change we can believe in' I don't yet believe. But like you I am watching with curiosity.

Can someone clarify this term for me please? When the European protestors say they were "Kettled" does that mean the same thing as when American protestors are "Corralled"?

Well from the video it appears the protesters have been allocated a space to stay in and those outside that space are told to move due to public health and safety concerns. They seem to have an uneasy agreement with the police and the protests have turned into a sort of mini-carnival with music, live performances and whatnot. They are also forming there own in-built democracy for show where decisions are made by the majority through a raise of hands.. Some leaders and organisers are slowly emerging taking control. Kind of a weird thing to watch. What I can see is an uneasy alliance between the protest movement and the establishment so far, where it is appearing the protest is abit like a seduction attempt at the establishment to change its behaviour. A sort of, we will play by your rules, be good little protesters and in return you will listen and meet some of our needs. Weeeeeeeird!

So far my conclusion, is this is a pseudo-protest. A protest only for show. An advertisement for democracy but ultimately paper-thin. I don't think it is cointelpro so far, it's just that, it doesn't have enough 'bite' to make it through to where it really matters in my opinion. And it is kind of leading to contemplation about protests and if this is actually how real change is arrived at in a democracy taken over by pyschopathic elites... The problem is an enduring one!

 

[Denis]

My perspective is that no true lasting change can come from any type of revolution unless it first begins with the inner revolution. IMHO, true tangible freedom for any individual can only come from self governance, that is accepting the personal responsibility for one's words and actions. I think that this Alex Collier quote fits great with what I am trying to convey here: Responsible freedom of self determination becoming truly self-confident and free to unconditionally be responsible for oneself without being coerced to accept some higher authority..

I also don't think OCW is a COINTELPRO, but looking at it from my perspective it is kind of a pseudo-protest. Of course, I may be wrong...
It's just that real freedom goes hand in hand with personal responsibility imo. Freedom is synonimous with accepting the high degree of personal/self response-ability. My principle is (in Jesus' words): do unto others as you would have them do unto you. To clarify this more- do that which is life supportive.

kakulukia! ;D

 

[dantem]

Well, the movement got a bad turn in Rome, Italy. This one was really co-opted as I'm reading the news..

This 15th of October has been a day of street protests, pretty much all around the World. They hit also Barcelona and what was left where a few paintings and leaflets over bank's windows and cash dispensers - not to mention the seat of Barcelona's Stock Exchange Building that was readily washed and cleaned, or so it seemed to me.

Now I'm just back in Italy from Barcelona and I've heard the news that in Rome this "Indignatos" Day was really a mess. Apparently the Black Block army multiplied there (how so?!?) and they nearly destroyed the city. Now I'm hearing that the big politicians can't wait to draft up some brand new Security Laws, all scheduled summarily for tomorrow. So a big propaganda has been set up, as the PTB can't stop even in front of an impending economic crisis. Fact is that in the recent months a lot of politicians where accused of a whole lot of crimes, and so it's now time for a counter attack.. The Italian Ministry of Defense La Russa was coincidentally in Washington on Saturday.