Recommended Books: Discussion

Gimpy said:
<snip>
How high is the 'barf factor'* in the following:

Trapped in the Mirror - Elan Golomb
Unholy Hungers - Barbara E. Hort
In Sheep's Clothing - George K. Simon
Myth of Sanity - Martha Stout
Sociopath Next Door - Martha Stout
<snip>
*Barf Factor: a physical sickness brought about by too much empathy for victims of sociopaths/psychopaths. No I can't shut it off. Not sure I should. Keeps my behind intact. (That and a very big dog)
I somehow overlooked this forum topic before today, and I had to laugh when I came to this post. I haven't read everything on this list but there is one title for which I actually became nauseated while I was reading it and my stomach remained upset for the rest of the day: Unholy Hungers.

It wasn't because of "too much empathy," however. The nausea came from reading a single chapter that happened to describe a large part of my earlier life. It helped me to see what I look for in my relationships--and why they turn out so badly--but it was literally a gut wrenching experience to come to see it.

So read on, and keep a barf bag near.
 
Some of the reference books from Adventures and The Wave can make very good reading. I started a new job in September that is in a location--a few blocks from the state Capitol--where I don't want to drive every day, so I started riding light rail instead. Unexpectedly, this has given me 60-90 minutes a day of reading time, and the things I am learning are adding noticeably to my life. Since September I have read Umberto Eco's Focault's Pendulum and John Gribbin's In Search of the Double Helix, books that I bought 5 years ago when I discovered this website but never found time to read. I also started Mircea Eliade's Shamanism, but that one is waiting right now while I do other reading.

When I began reading "Pendulum," I thought "Oh, no--another one of those," but I stuck with it and was pleasantly surprised. "Helix" was facinating. It was published in 1985 and was out of print even in 2003 when I bought it (used). Some of the information is dated, but I have never before seen such a clear account of the science of evolution and molecular biology. It answered many questions for me, and helped me to clear out mental "junk" I was carrying because of my religious upbringing, disinfo I was taught that was intended to create doubt about well-established data. It is the same religious junk many children are being taught today, actually, since it doesn't evolve the way science does.

As I was finishing "Helix," I learned of a new book, Reinventing the Sacred - A New View of Science, Reason, and Religion by Stuart A. Kauffman. As I mentioned in a post elsewhere, I am only 1/4 of the way through but it is fascinating reading. I don't know how this can be, but it reads like a sequel to "Helix," building on what I learned there and bringing the science up to the present.

There is a lot about this book ("Reinventing") for which I don't have the background to properly evaluate it, but I think it is well worth reading as a way of expanding your thinking and to see possibilities where you never learned to see possibilities before. "Emergence" is a recurring theme, and Kauffman, a "complexity theorist," shows how phenomena emerge unexpectedly out of our physical and biological "platforms" as complexity increases. At the point where I am reading now, he is starting to talk about the "adjacent possible" -- things on the threshold of emerging, as it were.

I keep noticing that some of the patterns he describes seem to exist on the macro-social level as well. Principles that can be seen across atomic, molecular, organismic, and social levels? As above, so below? Or is it the other way around, or does it just go both ways?

Another theme seems to be that all of the things people attribute to "God" and the supernatural can be understood in terms of the emergent properties of nature. Actually, quoting the introduction from the book cover will say this part better than I can, especially since it starts to diverge from my own feelings about the subject...

Consider the woven integrated complexity of a living cell after 3.8 billion years of evolution. Is it more awesome to suppose that a transcendent God fashioned the cell at a stroke, or to realize the truth: the living cell evolved with no Creator, no Almighty Hand, but arose on its own, created by the evolving biosphere? The truth is much more magnificent, much more worthy of awe and wonder, than our ancient creation myths.

Reinventing the Sacred proposes a new understanding of a natural divinity based on an emerging, scientifically based world view. Complexity theorist Stuart Kauffman does not propose somehow to insert "god" into a cold, lifeless universe, Instead he argues that the qualities of divinity that we hold sacred--creativity, meaning, purposeful action--are in fact properties of the universe that can be investigated scientifically. Along the way, Kauffman offers stunnng new ideas in an abundance of fields--from cell biology to economics to the philosophy of mind--as well as the relation of science to religion. To understand the true role of emergence in science we need to rethink everything from how cells manage work to how economies grow.

I agree that studying nature at all levels is much more fulfilling than wallowing around in religious bunk, but I don't find myself wanting to follow Kauffman into any sort of new, scientifically-based spirituality. I do, however, see interesting parallels with Earth-centered spirituality. For me, the value of the book is in how it clarifies the principles that explain how life can begin, self-organize, emerge, and evolve by running on and taking advantage of the properties of the physical "platform" of atomic matter and quantum mechanics (and how it might be able to run on other platforms as well). I can't begin to understand the underlying physics, but I do recognize themes here that at least clarify if not answer some of my deeper questions about life.

[Oops--this probably should have been a new topic. Please split it if it seems out of place here.]
 
Actually, I thought "The Stand" was one of King's best efforts. Very complex story about "the end of the world" and, as usual, his "McDonald's imagination" really got down to the nitty gritty.

But, having said that, maybe work on the self is more important than storing beans and rice IF, as is suggested, there is a possibility of "The Wave" and a "reality splitting" event of some sort? In that context, maybe Beelzebub's Tales is a bit heavy duty and "In Search of the Miraculous" would be more helpful?
 
I agree that The Stand is probably King's most important work. It was the first book of his that I read. I was given a galley proof, from an old friend of King's, back in the 70s. It was over 1300 pages. I think the first edition was trimmed down to around 1100 pages. As I study more about the military development of bioweapons, the book becomes more and more prescient.

As I worked through this thread, I noted that The Sufis, by Idries Shah is not mentioned. I read this book a couple of years ago and was stunned by the interconnectedness of Sufic teaching and Castaneda, Gurdjieff, etc and the Cs. Having recently recommended it to a friend, I began re-reading it. It is almost like reading it for the first time.

Shah takes us through the history of the teachings, now called Sufiism, in a very readable style. I recommend this book because it was written by an actual respected Sufi, not just an academic rendering from one examining the work from the exterior. Shah identifies the perfected men throughout history, from many different cultures and within various religions, who carried the transmission of the ancient work right up to today, often right under the orthodox church father's noses. The saints, great writers and teachers who were quite obviously influenced by contact with Sufic teachings will surprise some. Ibn Arabi gets his props... as does Nasrudin (Nassr Eddin).

I recommend this book to anyone just beginning to get their heads around the Work. It clarifies much about the lines of transmission of the old knowledge... or at least it did for me. The renaissance did not "just happen" in a vacuum. The introduction of chivalry and love poetry into a Europe just emerging out of the dark ages is convincingly traced to the Sufis who followed the Saracens into Spain... and then crossed the Pyrenees, carrying their teachings to the courts of Europe via the troubadors and learned men of eastern sciences - as well as the knowledge brought back from the east by the Templars. Much of this ties directly to Laura's writings of the history of that period and is quite complementary to her work, in that it reinforces, upon the new reader, the validity of many of her well formed hypotheses.

The teaching of that for which no adequate language exists is never and easy task.

_http://www.amazon.com/Sufis-Idries-Shah/dp/0385079664/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231587993&sr=1-3
 
Hi, Rabelais,

You can find a thread on Mullah Nasr ud Din here .

It's in the 'Tickle Me' sub-forum, but a couple of the posters do mention 'The Sufis' by Idries Shah.

Also, here , 'Gurdjieff and the question of the soul'.

and here , 'Islam; An Intuitive Perspective'.

Enjoy! :)
 
bedower said:
[…]

and here , 'Islam; An Intuitive Perspective'.

[…]

Hi Bedower,
the last link is not working and it is also an (now) empty post when corrected.

fwiw.


Edit: Sorry, I realized now you edited the link, because it is not working.
 
Hi, abcdefghiJoerg,

Yes, I noticed the first post of that thread was missing, and have reported it to Dr Bizaramor here , just in case you come across any more.

Sorry about that. :(
 
bedower said:
Hi, Rabelais,

You can find a thread on Mullah Nasr ud Din here .

It's in the 'Tickle Me' sub-forum, but a couple of the posters do mention 'The Sufis' by Idries Shah.

Also, here , 'Gurdjieff and the question of the soul'.

and here , 'Islam; An Intuitive Perspective'.

Enjoy! :)

Hi Bedower,

Yup, I am aware of the Shah references throughout the threads here at the forum. I just brought up this specific book because I felt that it would be a helpful addition to this list. Another of Shah's books that would also be a good one for list consideration is, Learning How to Learn.
ISBN 0 14 019513 0

Both of these books are directly related to the Work and not nearly as daunting a read for a newbie as jumping straight into Gurdjieff. The historical perspective of the Work and its transmission throughout the ages was interesting. Had I read them before reading Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, I think that I might have had a clearer grasp of their concepts, the first time through. Although I don't think that ISOM or Beelzebub can be grokked with just one read... at least not by me. I first read ISOM and Beelzebub in the late 60s. Most of the essence of both flew right past me then.

I am getting ready to attempt the reading aloud of Beelzebub soon. I gave a page or two a try a few months back. It is a much more difficult task than it first appears. It certainly pointed out my mechanical reading habits... and the dog thought I had lost my marbles.
 
From what I have learned, the link between the East and the West was not done by sufis, but rather by the Ismaelians (a rather interesting esoteric sect). Furthermore, there are many kind of Sufis and Sufi paths. One of the most fascinating Sufi brother-sisterhood is the Bektashi order of Sufi. They traditionnaly use Mollah Nasrdin Hodja's joke to teach some knowledges. Bektashis sufis are frequently refered as some kind of Shia Muslim(Alevis)/animists.

Last year I was working on a construction work. One day an electrician appeared and thus we started talking. Because I was unable to understand his background, since his accent was different from those I knew, I asked him about his origins. He said he was an Albanian, a christian Albanian. I asked him about the Bektashis because this community is about 15% of the Albanian population thus being the most important european 'Muslim' community. He just gave an amazing answer which sounded like that:
"They have much power, they do strange things, you can't jail them, they would go out of the prison...They are involved in all kind of solidarity initiatives and are very trustful, they are good people, but don't mess with them, they have powers and they can be very dangerous in that case."

Here are a few links:
http://www.bektashi.net/beliefs-jokes1.html
http://www.bektashi.net/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bektashi
http://www.beyond-the-pale.co.uk/albanian4.htm#commensal
http://www.librairie-compagnie.fr/turcs/auteurs/hodja.html
http://www.bektashi.net/
http://www.hermetics.org/bektashi.html
 
Just wanted everyone to know that RPP now has three more books for sale in its "recommended" section:

Dwellings of the Philosophers (Fulcanelli)
Mystery of the Cathedrals (Fulcanelli)
Interdimensional Universe (Phil Imbrogno)
 
Hi,

Could someone recommend a good and fairly reliable "Encyclopedia of World History" or some sort of another book that contains the "main events" of the past? I feel like I really need to brush up my knowledge of basic world history - even if this means to read some "disinfo" inserted in between. Any suggestions?
 
aragorn said:
Hi,

Could someone recommend a good and fairly reliable "Encyclopedia of World History" or some sort of another book that contains the "main events" of the past? I feel like I really need to brush up my knowledge of basic world history - even if this means to read some "disinfo" inserted in between. Any suggestions?

Hmmm... All I can remember from history textbooks is that their concentration on externally visible and significant events was boring to the point of inducing catatonia. That is still the case.

Probably the best way to get that sort of overview would be by reading timelines. Timelines are also useful if they are graphically illustrated.

One of the QFS members created one for us and printed it on special paper on a special printer (he is an architect and has access to printers that do elevations and blueprints and stuff). The timeline is about 30 feet long. It is a roll and we've tried to figure out where we could mount it on the wall and, so far, we don't have anyplace to do it. The early parts of it are pretty sparse in terms of text and long periods are condensed into short graphics... the text relating to these times are generally about archaeological and paleontological discussions. As it moves closer to the present, the amount of text increases dramatically because there are records and significant events that relate to one another. There is also a graphic line that shows the sunspot cycle and astronomical events. It's a fascinating piece of work!

I'm considering moving our COINTELPRO timeline to a server where various people can contribute to it and constantly update it. Now THAT would be an interesting project.
 
Laura said:
Hmmm... All I can remember from history textbooks is that their concentration on externally visible and significant events was boring to the point of inducing catatonia. That is still the case.

Probably the best way to get that sort of overview would be by reading timelines. Timelines are also useful if they are graphically illustrated.

One of the QFS members created one for us and printed it on special paper on a special printer (he is an architect and has access to printers that do elevations and blueprints and stuff). The timeline is about 30 feet long. It is a roll and we've tried to figure out where we could mount it on the wall and, so far, we don't have anyplace to do it. The early parts of it are pretty sparse in terms of text and long periods are condensed into short graphics... the text relating to these times are generally about archaeological and paleontological discussions. As it moves closer to the present, the amount of text increases dramatically because there are records and significant events that relate to one another. There is also a graphic line that shows the sunspot cycle and astronomical events. It's a fascinating piece of work!

I'm considering moving our COINTELPRO timeline to a server where various people can contribute to it and constantly update it. Now THAT would be an interesting project.

That's sort of what I suspected - history books are boring and too "academical". But since I'm a total novice regarding world history (never listened to our history teacher at school), I'd like to start somewhere. Timelines sound like a good way to learn to "see" history, and then gradually maybe focus in on something in a form of a book about a specific era. There seems to be many History Timelines on the net, found one on BBC with a quite good "interface", don't know about it's objectivity though. I'm not that keen on reading stuff on the computer screen - my eyes don't like it and I feel like the screen drains my energy some how.

Now the SOTT timelines you mention would be fascinating to see and read. Hope it will be possible in the future. I would offer my help with that project, but since I'm just starting my "history lessons" I wouldn't be much of use :-[

Please do post links to good history timelines if you guys find ones on the net. Maybe there's some good printable versions available. I'll keep searching too...
 
Hello All!

Being that I am a novice, I was curious if anyone could provide a recommended list, from the books mentioned above, that would be a good map or schedule for someone like me that is trying to get back on the reading track. I am in the process of rereading the Wave Series in book form, but would it be good to go right into the Gurdjieff after? This was my next series of books to jump into, but I am curious if I need to go into another direction, with respect to reading books, to lay some foundation work for difficult concepts, in order to understand them more thoroughly. The Wave Series is fantastic, and so was The Secret History of the World, but the latter was a bit more challenging. I have read many books from Castaneda, which were great as well.

So basically, if you guys had to choose again what to read, in terms of a scale from basic concepts for foundation, to very difficult and challenge concepts, what would you recommend?

Thanks all for the help.
 
GMFaudio said:
Hello All!

Being that I am a novice, I was curious if anyone could provide a recommended list, from the books mentioned above, that would be a good map or schedule for someone like me that is trying to get back on the reading track. I am in the process of rereading the Wave Series in book form, but would it be good to go right into the Gurdjieff after? This was my next series of books to jump into, but I am curious if I need to go into another direction, with respect to reading books, to lay some foundation work for difficult concepts, in order to understand them more thoroughly. The Wave Series is fantastic, and so was The Secret History of the World, but the latter was a bit more challenging. I have read many books from Castaneda, which were great as well.

So basically, if you guys had to choose again what to read, in terms of a scale from basic concepts for foundation, to very difficult and challenge concepts, what would you recommend?

Thanks all for the help.

Have-you read the psy books?

If not, they could be very useful to help you to understand and clean your machine.
 
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