Yeah, i've noticed the same thing. Because of our history with Russia, people are conditioned early on to think that west good, Russia evil. That's exactly how i thought, before started doing any research.Aragorn said:
Revolution in Ukraine: Western-engineered Coup d'État?
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Serg said:
God I really hope it doesn't come to that, but I'm afraid that that's exactly what they did in the Balkans in the 1990s. If some kind of 'great powers' war breaks out, the Powers That Be would probably try to keep it local because they have too much to lose from an international war between the West and Russia. So, keep a close eye on things and maybe consider an exit strategy?
Serg said:
Yeah, it's the answer on anyone's lips whenever you try to reason with them about the real dynamic at work here. So it doesn't matter if they're a 'Westerner' watching this unfold from their home in California or someone closely connected to the crisis, Truth in this context has become "Russian propaganda".
Pravda was a leading newspaper of the Soviet Union after the Russian Revolution. During the Cold War, Pravda was well known in the West for its pronouncements as the official voice of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.
There was a saying in the USSR that went: "In Pravda there is no 'truth' and in Izvestia there is no 'news'", while Western media regularly scorned Pravda's blatant propagandizing from its moral high ground (which never really had, but anyway).
The only reason this slur still works on Western minds is because they believed their own leaders' official lies, impairing their ability to recognise the true things Russia says.
angelburst29
The Living Force
Putin faces down Obama over Ukraine
_http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/03/01/352833/putin-faces-down-obama-over-ukraine/
The White House is obviously rattled by reports of Russian troop movements across Ukraine's southern Crimean Peninsula. Moscow says that its military presence in the autonomous Crimean republic of Ukraine is fully in accord with a long-standing legal agreement to have its soldiers stationed there as part of its Black Sea naval base.
That agreement was renewed in 2010 between Moscow and Kiev for a further 20 years, affording Russian military presence in the Crimea, particularly the naval base at Sevastopol, which is headquarters for Russia's Black Sea fleet.
Russian ambassador to the United Nations Vitaly Churkin denied that Russia had invaded Ukraine's territory and said, "We are operating under this agreement [with Ukraine]."
Events in Crimea took on a chaotic twist in recent days when unknown armed men took over the local parliament and the Russian flag was hoisted. There were also other reports of large troop deployments at the main civilian airport and other facilities. Soldiers were not wearing identifiable uniforms, but there were unconfirmed reports that armored vehicles bore Russian military insignia.
Under the existing military lease of the naval base at Crimea's Sevastopol, Russia is permitted to station thousands of troops on the Peninsula, and Moscow has in the past routinely engaged in maneuvers there.
However, it is stretching naivety to believe Moscow's claims that the recent surge in military movements is merely "routine". The Crimean activity coincides with other large-scale mobilization of Russian troops as well as military aircraft on Russia's broader border with Ukraine.
But here's the laughable irony of Obama's protestations. The latest apparent Russian military moves follow months of US-sponsored destabilization in Ukraine. This illegal and covert American interference has trampled all over Ukrainian sovereignty, which ironically Obama is now accusing his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin of doing.
Since Ukraine spurned a tentative trade agreement with the European Union at the end of last November, street protests have escalated in the Ukrainian capital, Kiev. Washington and its European allies, including Britain, France and Germany, have done everything to escalate these protests, from high-profile political statements to clandestine military infiltration through the organs of the CIA. The demonstrations in Kiev quickly took on a quasi-military character with sinister fascist elements using firearms and other forms of violence to seize and occupy government buildings. That rapidity betrays the pre-meditated external nature of the "protests".
US State Department official Victoria Nuland recently disclosed that Washington has "invested" some $5 billion in "promoting democracy" (that is, subversion and sedition) in Ukraine over the past two decades.
The turmoil in Ukraine has therefore all the hallmarks of a Washington-led regime-change operation. Needless to say that is a wholly criminal interference that makes a mockery of international law. The ultimate target of this meddling, as has been brazenly stated over many years since the early 1990s by Zbigniew Brzezinski and other US imperial planners, is the destabilization of Russia itself.
Risibly, Washington's new puppet president in Kiev, Oleksandr Turchynov, has now accused Russian forces of "seizing and capturing" the regional parliament and other government buildings in Ukraine's southern Crimea. This complaint comes from political agitators who used violence and other crimes, including the murder of policemen, to seize government buildings in Kiev, culminating in the ousting of an elected president.
Rules of sovereignty and international law are out the window, and it is Washington and its European puppets who threw all norms out that window with their incessant, illegal interference in Ukraine. Ukrainian territory, and its centuries of shared history, is a vital interest for Russia.
Putin is entirely right to lay down an unspoken military marker to Washington over Ukraine, just like he did when the Americans tried to mess militarily with South Ossetia in 2008 through its NATO proxy, Georgia.
American exceptionalism of arrogance and lawlessness does not understand the language of diplomacy. The only language it responds to is blunt force talking back to force.
_http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/03/01/352833/putin-faces-down-obama-over-ukraine/
The White House is obviously rattled by reports of Russian troop movements across Ukraine's southern Crimean Peninsula. Moscow says that its military presence in the autonomous Crimean republic of Ukraine is fully in accord with a long-standing legal agreement to have its soldiers stationed there as part of its Black Sea naval base.
That agreement was renewed in 2010 between Moscow and Kiev for a further 20 years, affording Russian military presence in the Crimea, particularly the naval base at Sevastopol, which is headquarters for Russia's Black Sea fleet.
Russian ambassador to the United Nations Vitaly Churkin denied that Russia had invaded Ukraine's territory and said, "We are operating under this agreement [with Ukraine]."
Events in Crimea took on a chaotic twist in recent days when unknown armed men took over the local parliament and the Russian flag was hoisted. There were also other reports of large troop deployments at the main civilian airport and other facilities. Soldiers were not wearing identifiable uniforms, but there were unconfirmed reports that armored vehicles bore Russian military insignia.
Under the existing military lease of the naval base at Crimea's Sevastopol, Russia is permitted to station thousands of troops on the Peninsula, and Moscow has in the past routinely engaged in maneuvers there.
However, it is stretching naivety to believe Moscow's claims that the recent surge in military movements is merely "routine". The Crimean activity coincides with other large-scale mobilization of Russian troops as well as military aircraft on Russia's broader border with Ukraine.
But here's the laughable irony of Obama's protestations. The latest apparent Russian military moves follow months of US-sponsored destabilization in Ukraine. This illegal and covert American interference has trampled all over Ukrainian sovereignty, which ironically Obama is now accusing his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin of doing.
Since Ukraine spurned a tentative trade agreement with the European Union at the end of last November, street protests have escalated in the Ukrainian capital, Kiev. Washington and its European allies, including Britain, France and Germany, have done everything to escalate these protests, from high-profile political statements to clandestine military infiltration through the organs of the CIA. The demonstrations in Kiev quickly took on a quasi-military character with sinister fascist elements using firearms and other forms of violence to seize and occupy government buildings. That rapidity betrays the pre-meditated external nature of the "protests".
US State Department official Victoria Nuland recently disclosed that Washington has "invested" some $5 billion in "promoting democracy" (that is, subversion and sedition) in Ukraine over the past two decades.
The turmoil in Ukraine has therefore all the hallmarks of a Washington-led regime-change operation. Needless to say that is a wholly criminal interference that makes a mockery of international law. The ultimate target of this meddling, as has been brazenly stated over many years since the early 1990s by Zbigniew Brzezinski and other US imperial planners, is the destabilization of Russia itself.
Risibly, Washington's new puppet president in Kiev, Oleksandr Turchynov, has now accused Russian forces of "seizing and capturing" the regional parliament and other government buildings in Ukraine's southern Crimea. This complaint comes from political agitators who used violence and other crimes, including the murder of policemen, to seize government buildings in Kiev, culminating in the ousting of an elected president.
Rules of sovereignty and international law are out the window, and it is Washington and its European puppets who threw all norms out that window with their incessant, illegal interference in Ukraine. Ukrainian territory, and its centuries of shared history, is a vital interest for Russia.
Putin is entirely right to lay down an unspoken military marker to Washington over Ukraine, just like he did when the Americans tried to mess militarily with South Ossetia in 2008 through its NATO proxy, Georgia.
American exceptionalism of arrogance and lawlessness does not understand the language of diplomacy. The only language it responds to is blunt force talking back to force.
Pashalis said:Hey Serg I'm sorry that you have to through this. It is hard to see how brainwashed our loved ones are, especially in such crucial and dangerous situations.
To put it bluntly, I don't know if there is anything you can do in such a situation now, when it is clear that they want to believe all those lies...
Stay save and keep us informed!
Hi, Pashalis. Yes it is their choice, even if it is lie. I can't change it if they don't want to....
I have a friend from Crimea with whom i'm chatting online from time to time. He tells me what is going on there. He is in so-called self-formed-security which protects from new-formed government 'revolutionalist'. The 'new government' and the forces behind it will try to provoke the Russian forces and people who support them. They can even 'dress up' as Russians and to make it everithing look as Russia open fire first. He said that pro-Russian forces will serch and try to indetify those provocator's groups/camps to prevent bloodshed.
Yes, that is how it is for many. Still, every time something happens of this size there are people who also begin to probe deeper. for instance, some have begun to look how to handle the stress (In Russian): _http://www.from-ua.com/voice/48938e35e964c.htmlSerg said:
This is a report about the extend to which the laws have been changed to legalize whatever they fancy (In Russian): _http://from-ua.com/politics/518ddc85e2ed7.html And now, after alle the break-ins etc weapons and other items can be had for little money _http://ru.golos.ua/incident/14_03_02_na_kievskom_bloshinom_ryinke_poyavilos_orujie
About NATO involvement in preparing what went on, here is a series of pictures _http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://matveychev-oleg.livejournal.com/896151.html The claim is that Ukrainian nationalists were trained by a NATO instructor at a military base in Estonia in 2006. Apparently the source is here: _http://www.sovr.krivbassinfo.com/cgi-bin/sovr.pl?lang=ru&action=showstat&sndir=2006_11&razd=4&stat=27 That was in 2006, so they have been working on it for some time.
Very possible and there are many interest at stake, also learning from the experience of Syria a whole bunch of people from other places show up as if war was the latest in extreme tourism.Serg said:
Edit: Regarding many interests there is this article, which claims to show that western intelligence forces were helping the radicals out with money in exchange for documents: _http://rt.com/news/us-military-ukraine-radicals-440/
Here is a speech of Vitaliy Churkin the ambassador of the Russian Federation to the UN.
I can't find it in English, althought there is an official translation, of course. He made a strong statement expression Russia's official possition regarding this situation in Ukraine and ragarding what is really goin on IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb8nWZnf3zc
I can't find it in English, althought there is an official translation, of course. He made a strong statement expression Russia's official possition regarding this situation in Ukraine and ragarding what is really goin on IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qb8nWZnf3zc
Kniall said:
People in Ukraine have a lot of relatives in Russia and vise versa. According to russin's TV channel over 640.000 of Ukrainians have already migrate to Russia during the last 2 month. I can also do so, but also i can join the pro-Russian people. Although I can help more by spreading the information, as far as it first of all an information war.
BTW I'm registred in another city, so i'm not living in my official residence.
Serg said:
Thanks for sharing. A very poignant video. It was posted here: http://rusott.wordpress.com/.
Btw, it's possible to turn on captions in this video in English, and even if it's not ideal, it's still possible to get the gist of what he is saying.
Basically, this video deals with the question "Cue bono?" He presents a lot of questions, in all of them asks why EU and then US escalated the situation that was quite manageable and minor. Why they funded the extremists, organized demonstrations, etc. The picture he presents clearly points toward deliberate escalation of the situation and conflict.
Serg said:
Well, according to news.allcrimea.net http://news.allcrimea.net/news/2014/3/2/gospogransluzhba-oprovergla-informatsiju-o-massovom-vyezde-ukraintsev-iz-strany-6278/ it's not the case. I think there is much propaganda going on on the both sides.
Here is text version of the speech:
http://www.russiaun.ru/ru/news/sc_ukr
as far as I understand they haven't translated it yet, but would do it later.
I'm translating the main points, here is part one:
He said that, maybe one of the mistakes of the Ukrainian government was that only at the last moment they realized that the EU association agreement, proposed in Brussels, could have very hard economic consequences to Ukraine. In such case the Ukrainian government decided not to sign this agreement at that particular moment which doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t sign it latter. The question arises: ‘why did this problem have to be transferred into the form of street manifestation. Why should these manifestations have to be supported from abroad, including by EU representatives? Why did EU speakers from some countries give speeches in Ukraine’s mass-meeting, stimulation further protests?’ Why did certain officials have to wander around the Maidan on one occasion giving out bagels(boublik) on other demonstrating themselves standing around the opposition leaders? Why should such rude interferences in to the interior business of the sovereign country takes place?
http://www.russiaun.ru/ru/news/sc_ukr
as far as I understand they haven't translated it yet, but would do it later.
I'm translating the main points, here is part one:
He said that, maybe one of the mistakes of the Ukrainian government was that only at the last moment they realized that the EU association agreement, proposed in Brussels, could have very hard economic consequences to Ukraine. In such case the Ukrainian government decided not to sign this agreement at that particular moment which doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t sign it latter. The question arises: ‘why did this problem have to be transferred into the form of street manifestation. Why should these manifestations have to be supported from abroad, including by EU representatives? Why did EU speakers from some countries give speeches in Ukraine’s mass-meeting, stimulation further protests?’ Why did certain officials have to wander around the Maidan on one occasion giving out bagels(boublik) on other demonstrating themselves standing around the opposition leaders? Why should such rude interferences in to the interior business of the sovereign country takes place?
Serg said:
Ukraine has not been a sovereign country since it joined the IMF in 1992. Functionally, economically, which is what really counts in this technocratic world dominated by banking elites, the Western Mafia already owns Ukraine, via $145 bn debt, so Yanukovych's hesitation about joining the EU, along with parallel negotiations about joining the Eurasian Union project instead, propelled the Mafia to 'speed things up a bit' or 'call in their debt' by starting a fire in Kiev.
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