Role of Russia

[Siberia]

Siberia,
Loving my Motherland indeed, but is not the same as loving the regime, which makes the people in my country to degrade and suffer.
All the way you tried to defend the deeds of "great czar", using pro government sources (couple of last days i had to watch on TV governmental controlled channels-it is the same as BBC, CNN - slogan Hail the King no matter what- zombie ящик 'box') without giving the issue a critical analysis. If it is the way you suppose it should be done- then objective "researcher" status is not for you- only Одобрямс ("blind justifying").

What a pathetic lie. Russian TV, be it state-owned or not, is THE MOST OBJECTIVE as compared to anywhere else in the world. Have you seen the talk show with Vladimir Soloviev suggested by Keit and others earlier in this thread? This is a popular show of a largest Russian STATE-OWNED CHANNEL. It is broadcasted in prime-time, including weekend, and it is one of MANY. Vladimir Pozner is another example, etc. There is plenty of critics of all sorts in Russian media. And great plenty of high-quality analysis. While those 'links' and 'objective analysis' that you provide - are mostly NGO's dirty lies and disinfo. Has it ever occurred to you who is behind those "sources" that you provide? Take a look at their ownership structure - you will be surprised. "Objective analysis"? Don't funny my slippers, please.

 

[Antony]

Siberia,
Oh dear, the problem is deeper than I thought. Most of the Soviet born people due to good education, in spite of certain censorship, are able to read between the lines and analyze the official press and media- a habit of Not "eating" everything they throw to the crowd.
Firstly - for the sake of objectivity- Please learn who controls the State media in Russia today. Will give you a hint - it is ran by Jewish "syndicate" and directed straight from Kremlin by "puppets" Ernst, Kylistikov, Dobrodeev etc. The prime time journalists, partly you named them Pozner, Soloviev, Svanidze etc. (a bit earlier Savik Shyster - who turned out to be a CIA agent and even that did not lead to sacking him straight away. He later moved to Kiev to secure Maidan events) - are all the Jewish furiuos Russophobes, some of them are with clearly pro Israel and pro US agenda (try to learn about their's background, what books they wrote - It would be enough to give them a red light in a case if we had a really patriotic media). Why do you think they are allowed to broadcast (BSing on our history, promoting the idea of Russians being lazy, stupid, subhuman) from main tv chanels? The only reason for this, imo, government backs that agenda.

Second, you say you gave counterarguments. Please, reasonably, give an explanation to these few facts put forward here: a) why Russia is at the top of all worst ratings (gave them in the beggining of the thread)? b) why our government keeps its reserves in US pocket? c) why our brilliant, rising, stable and prosperous economy falls like a domino in a couple of months in the light of small portion of sanctions along with oil prices plunge and how come in all countries when oil prices decrease the petrol forthright becomes cheaper for consumers proportionally and only in Russia they continue increasing?

 

[Siberia]

Siberia,
Oh dear, the problem is deeper than I thought. Most of the Soviet born people due to good education, in spite of certain censorship, are able to read between the lines and analyze the official press and media- a habit of Not "eating" everything they throw to the crowd.
Firstly - for the sake of objectivity- Please learn who controls the State media in Russia today. Will give you a hint - it is ran by Jewish "syndicate" and directed straight from Kremlin by "puppets" Ernst, Kylistikov, Dobrodeev etc. The prime time journalists, partly you named them Pozner, Soloviev, Svanidze etc. (a bit earlier Savik Shyster - who turned out to be a CIA agent and even that did not lead to sacking him straight away. He later moved to Kiev to secure Maidan events) - are all the Jewish furiuos Russophobes, some of them are with clearly pro Israel and pro US agenda (try to learn about their's background, what books they wrote - It would be enough to give them a red light in a case if we had a really patriotic media). Why do you think they are allowed to broadcast (BSing on our history, promoting the idea of Russians being lazy, stupid, subhuman) from main tv chanels? The only reason for this, imo, government backs that agenda.

I partly agree with that. People like Pozner, Soloviev, Svanidze et. al. are excellent provocators. And indeed, at certain points, whether intentionally or not, work hard to destabilize the situation and ignite violent debates. But so do you too. ;)

And you didn't comment on the sources that you provided: are you aware who owns them?

As for counterarguments, here is a couple of fresh ones for you:

On October 30, Moscow City Arbitration Court entertained a lawsuit by the Office of the Prosecutor General on recognizing illegitimacy of Bashneft privatization and the return of the oil company’s 71% stake to government ownership.

Another huge oil company was returned to the government.

China and Russia have signed a local currency swap worth 150 billion yuan ($25 billion) or 815 billion roubles, the Chinese central bank said in a statement on Monday.

Bye-bye, US dollar.

 

[Nević Nenad]

Laura,
In total I spent 2 years studying in England during my youth.

If I may ask, what period is that? 1980s? 1990s? Many countries are not what they was 20 or 30 years ago . . .

 

[Antony]

Siberia,
I use all types of sources as long as they are useful information wise. If you have the data - you can analyze, evaluate, draw conclusions and give a forecast.

Bashneft - is a Yukos style takeover in the interest of Rosneft. As soon as Rosneft is full of debts- it needs to do something in order not to drown. Though personally I was surprised why they choose to rip off Evtyshenkov. As i am aware, he was silent and complying during Medvedev's presidency.

Oil deal with China is good, but it is mostly a "show"/as soon as it is a drop in the ocean. (Do not give me the quote from Cloud atlas about it :)
If our government really wanted to exclude total dependency on dollar- it would reform our Central Bank, return reserves from the west etc.

Avala,
It was right in the end of 1990s.

 

[Siberia]

If our government really wanted to exclude total dependency on dollar- it would reform our Central Bank, return reserves from the west etc.

Let's assume for a moment that we indeed returned our reserves to Russia tomorrow: in what particular equivalent would you suggest to keep them? Apples? ;)

Ruble is not a stable currency yet, as you have just said. Gold? There is simply not enough gold for everyday international settlements.

Let's be honest and put off populist proclamations: we still need a universal international instrument - today it is represented by dollar - for trade and exchange.

A new international monetary system must be created first, before leaping.

 

[Antony]

Siberia,
As i remember there is a famous saying from Pushkin: Whereby the country becomes richer....and why it does not need a gold if it has a simple product".
So if we withdrew the money from "international pirates" the reconstruction of our industry could be accomplished (as we remember our economy, having money abroad, in order to give a credit to a business has to borrow back from the West at crazy interest rate). What "rising from the knees" could we talk about if we have such a system?...

 

[Laura]

Laura,
In total I spent 2 years studying in England during my youth.

Not enough.

I spent 51 years in the US with a proud family history of many Revolutionary War soldiers in the family tree. Probably the "ultimate American"; ultimate Southerner; ultimate Floridian.

I married a Pole who grew up in Communist Poland. He was born in what is now Ukraine in 1943 and his mother hid with him in the forest during bombing raids. His family background is White Russian and Lithuanian in addition to Polish. His first language was Russian though the dominant language became Polish. He had to join the "party" in order to be allowed to work abroad. was interrogated by the secret police many times when he returned from research trips abroad. Later, he was a dissident against the Communists and was in Germany when Martial Law was declared back during "solidarity" days. He could not return for fear of being arrested. In short, he has a deep perspective on the whole deal. He reads the news in Russian, Polish, English, German, Italian and French every day. We talk about things a lot.

Together, we came to France in 2003, so we've been here 11 years. I was a bit of a Francophile in the beginning, but I now see France as not much different from the US - both countries have massive egos, a sense of "exceptionalism", and populations of unbelievable narcissists.

We have a constant stream of international visitors flowing through our house year 'round and I am in a position to hear very personal stories from people all over the world.

Let me just say this: I think you need to spend some time in the US or UK (or France), totally subjected to their systems, for 10 years or more before you can evaluate where you are against them or vice versa. Your naivete in respect of the US and its minions is breathtaking.

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

Antony, why do not you just leave these "trouble"? You can't change the government of Russia or any other as you would like. I stopped reading this entire thread a few months ago, because in my opinion it is a waste of energy and time.
what's the problem? never it will be better than what we have now. and, as the Buddha said, "If you have a problem, try to solve it. If you can not decide - do not make a problem out of this." Is this not universally? ;)
And I agree with the last answer of Laura.

 

[Antony]

Laura,
Your story with Ark is very intriguing indeed! He is partly Belorussian- and you as well (if I remember correctly your grandma was from that region?) and you both met during a research of the same subject via network !
Concerning attitudes towards Soviet communism - I have a division in my family, 60/40 in favor of commies. When we meet, there is a huge chance that someone will spark that "infinite" argument. After a "battle" we understand that during the dispute - the truth is born! And thusly we become closer! It is very interesting to gather and analyze all the facts from both sides.
Laura, I am not in any way considering US/Uk/rest of the western civilization as a beacon everybody should be heading for. Quite the opposite. I am just overwhelmed how people from the west and the rest of the world in a natural "search" of a rightful Ruler (balancer of the STS world), direct their's views to VVPutin, as imo, in his roots he is the same as the rest of the "puppet leaders" manipulated by higher STS forces. I perfectly understand that in comparison to Obama, Bush, Olland and Co. he does look much better. But when Objectively analyzing his words and actual deeds, that can be understandably easier seen from inside our country, it becomes obvious that the difference is only in envelopment. I honestly hope that truth searchers here will put the hypothesis to a test, so no one will be led astray during forthcoming harsh "times".

Lumiere,

My personal point here is that it is my field of expertise. I have chosen that path consciously - Serving my Country. I am trying to give people a food for thought. (I had interesting dynamics in my opinion on that matter through early 2000s). Our main aim here, as I believe and Cs said, networking to the mutual benefit. That is what I am doing here if only a little.

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

what you specifically mean by "Serving my Country"?

I believe you should understand that any politician does not have in its hands the full, real power? I do not have fanaticism about Putin, but did you try to consider him as person, not as politician? it is obvious that he MUST to maneuver between rigidly dictated by the rules from behind the scenes and their own intentions.
he can not just go to public and openly say "guys, I'm a good dude, and I want to create a better world." You know what would have happened to him then.
So, you have better candidate?
Just describe what you would do in his place? you would press the red button to wipe out Tel Aviv and Washington? he, too, knows who controls the world, and he plays by their rules. He does not own Russia, so how he can to rule the country as he wish? behind him in the first round are the oligarchs, further - "club members", and so on until the puppet masters themselves... C's said about Hitler, when he wanted to surpass the consortium - "ant that attacks the tank."
If Putin goes against the current, he will be washed away. and if it is the one of them - that is also true - what you expect from him? the point is not in it. Bear doesn't possess his den. instead of it manage the others. he can only try a few "correct" course. but it is locally. and globally - he is the same player on the board, as well as all. remember what was said - "Head - is the US, and the feet - Russia"? it's all the same. essence not in personalities. he can not kick puppet masters, even if I wanted to. strikingly is already how he reached this level - to be president, with his own intentions. each of us that do not like something a politics, in this case - a Putin. me too. for example, it disgusts me that all "eaten" downed Boeing that he exchanged it for other things. and other examples. but we can not look at the situation from his level. it has a completely different game board. and even if it was the same as Obama or Netanyahu - personally to you, Anthony, would be better from this?
I apologize for such a long answer and if I did not translate all correctly.

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

And, of course, if we discuss it all not virtual, we would understand each other better.

 

[Siberia]

My personal point here is that it is my field of expertise. I have chosen that path consciously - Serving my Country. I am trying to give people a food for thought. (I had interesting dynamics in my opinion on that matter through early 2000s). Our main aim here, as I believe and Cs said, networking to the mutual benefit. That is what I am doing here if only a little.

You are not serving your country, you are condemning anything achieved by your country instead. You concentrate exclusively on the problems, of which every country has a plenty, and say: see, we have a problem here, let's condemn Putin for it. Do you think other Russian people do not have the same problems like you? They have much worse problems. But nevertheless they understand that Putin is doing his best to solve them and they help him to reach this goal.

Your country chose Putin. Nearly 80 per cent of people respect him and support. I don't know a single person who wouldn't vote for him (the rest are probably all in Moscow, Nemtsov and Zhirinovsky are their heroes..). You think we are all idiots in Russia and you are the wise guy with British diploma? Russia chose Putin. Are you with your country or against?

There is no food for thought here, just a waste of energy and time, as Lumiere_du_Code pointed out.

 

[Antony]

Siberia,
I already understood that there could be no constructive discussion with you. Referring to his support is good, but It could be considered as volatile figure and very general. If you monitor press there are signs already of the decline of that digit (as we know the support skyrocketed after Crimea-obviously Russian people are fed up of being resources colony). If you remember during last presidential elections (we remember Stalin's quote -matters who counts the votes) it was just above 50% with the help of the "Magician" Chyrov. (Just to remind you that his biggest support base (~30%) is pensioners - who receive a pittance (150-300 $ on average) , but "sit still" as Russians are historically used to tolerate deprivations for a long time).

Strangely enough, I meet enough people from many regions of my country-they are far more realistic (they DO ask questions, why many things in our country are not such, as they are being presented on TV (as we know few people have alternative TV other than major State channels throughout the country) than you Siberia. They encounter the difficulties (financial, totally corrupted bureaucracy etc) and stupidity on every step of usual life. I asked you quite a few real everyday life questions. I got no response. May I ask you a question - do you live in Russia? Or the propaganda is so effective on you - that to any reasonable question you just throw - ....Hail P.?

 

[Keit]

You think we are all idiots in Russia and you are the wise guy with British diploma?

As I also agree that we shouldn't waste any more time and energy on this, just will reiterate the point for your, Antony, sake, in case there is a small chance that you are sincere. But just so you know, at this point it doesn't look good. And the main reason why it doesn't look good, is because you show enormous disrespect toward the network, not to mention toward our generous hosts (Laura and Ark).

Since you like idioms, here's one for you. There is a saying in Russian: "насильно мил не будешь" (you can't force love/appreciation/likability). That's what you do, force something in a very disingenuous way, and on the other hand try to be likable by saying how you follow the diet, do EE and cold showers. Well, good for you! It's very good for the health. Just don't insult our intelligence by thinking that it may be your ticket "in".

Your brain and knowledge, including dropping vague hints about you "serving the country" and having some inside knowledge also don't do the trick, because for people with far less theoretical knowledge but with more life wisdom is pretty clear that you have enormous blind spots all around. And that's giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you are not playing games on purpose.

Just so we will be clear, my intention is not to insult you. On the contrary, I am so happy when ever Russian speaking people become active members of this family. It's really great, and the more the merrier. But in my opinion, so much energy was spent on you, including by Laura, that has a lot on her plate, and you still continue with the same tune. Oh well...

And again, to give you the benefit of the doubt, maybe you are sincere and really think that you know better and that this entire network including L&A can't see through the manipulation of Mr. Putin, well then, not to insult you or anything, but it's good that your employers don't know that someone in the diplomatic or related position is unable to grasp various nuances and see beyond the black and white.

Also please understand that it isn't a rejection and not the end of the world, just an invitation to participate on the forum not under a cloak of "I know better" and "let waste a lot of energy on the issue, because I know I am right", but as someone who's willing to network in a sincere and balanced manner. We have a lot of brilliant and professional people here, and non of them puts up such hot airs. Just a suggestion.