Russian Passenger Plane Crashes Over Egypt

[Aeneas]

I am digging to find the cartoon itself, but I found that Sputnik had more information about the cartoon:
http://sputniknews.com/world/20151106/1029683872/plane-crash-charlie-hebdo-cartoons.html

French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo published two cartoons about the Russian passenger plane crash in Egypt. A Russian parliamentarian has called the cartoons an insult to the memory of the victims to Russia’s deadliest air accident in history, which took the lives of 224 people.

On Thursday, the magazine published two cartoons and a joke about the air crash over the Sinai Peninsula.

One of the pictures shows a jihadist of the Islamic State (IS) militant group and plane’s debris falling around him. The caption says “IS: Russian Aviation intensifies its bombing campaign.”

On the second drawing, a skull in sunglasses, lying on the ground amid the parts of the bodies and the plane’s debris, speaks about the dangers of flying with the Russian airline. The caption says: “The dangers of a Russian budget airline. I should have taken Air Cocaine.”

The cartoon apparently refers to what is known in France as the “Air Cocaine” affair, an incident with two Frenchmen accused of flying somewhat 680 kilos of cocaine from the Dominican Republic into France.

The cartoons have already been called blasphemy and insult to the memory of the victims of the horrible tragedy.

“I think it is blasphemy and a mockery of the memories of the victims of the tragedy. No mass media outlet should be allowed to do this, no matter which genre they specialize in,” said Igor Morozov, Russian parliamentarian and member of the Russian parliamentary Committee on Foreign Affairs.

The fragments of the Airbus A321 that was carrying out Kogalymavia Flight 9268 from Sharm el-Sheikh to St. Petersburg, on the crash site 100 km south of El Arish in the northern Sinai Peninsula
© Maxim Grigoryev
Several Months Needed to Study First Conclusions on A321 Crash in Egypt
"Laughing at the catastrophe that occurred in Sinai is unacceptable. Trying to be original, Charlie Hebdo just uses shock tactics. It forces one to recall the tragedy that occurred in January 2015. I think the journalists themselves provoke violence," said the member of the parliament.

Charlie Hebdo is known for publishing controversial caricatures. On January 7, the Paris office of the magazine was attacked by Islamist gunmen who killed 12 people and wounded 11 after Charlie Hebdo published cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.

Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova also commented on the cartoons on her page in Facebook with one single question: "Is anyone still 'Charlie?'"

The comment refers to the slogan 'JeSuisCharlie' (I am Charlie) and hashtag campaign that grew spontaneously after the attack in January. It was used to show empathy with those killed in the attack.

Zakharova also called the Charlie Hebdo cartoon a "mean provocation".

Earlier in September Maria commented on another cartoon of Charlie Hebdo on the death of a Syrian child.

"You know why I am not JeSuisCharlie?” she then wrote. “Because, to my mind, they deceive both us and themselves by affirming that there are no forbidden topics for their humor. If it were really so, then we could understand a cartoon of a dead Syrian child (not accept, but only understand)."

"But only under one condition – if the next day after the attack they would have published a cartoon of their dead colleagues."

It should be noted that France is still insisting that Bashar Assad must go and they have now sent their aircraft carrier down to help fighting ISIS Bashar Assad.
Will France apologize? Hardly, just like Obama could not lift the telephone to express condolences to the loss of lives in the air crash.

 

[Aeneas]

Found the Charlie Hebdo cartoons on Fort Russ:

The caption says “IS: Russian Aviation intensifies its bombing campaign.”

On the second drawing, a skull in sunglasses, lying on the ground amid the parts of the bodies and the plane’s debris, speaks about the dangers of flying with the Russian airline. The caption says: “The dangers of a Russian budget airline. I should have taken Air Cocaine.”

 

[rs]

One element to this event that is sort of strange is the fact that a 3 year old girl was found 34kms from the site when the main body of the plane fell. I suppose a small child near a part of the craft that broke off could have been pulled out because she was not wearing a seat belt.

I don't think this a particularly interesting fact. Many (most?) airlines allow babies and toddlers to fly "for free" so long as they sit on their parent's lap. This means that their poor little bodies become projectiles in the event of any "high G" incident. My bet it this was the case here, and the poor toddler simply got ejected in the initial breakup.

 

[Siberia]

Major Russian media report that Vladimir Putin agreed with the suggestion of Alexander Bortnikov, the head of FSB, to suspend flights to Egypt... What is this? They decided to not swim against the flow this time or there is indeed something about Egypt that we don't know?

 

[Kisito]

Major Russian media report that Vladimir Putin agreed with the suggestion of Alexander Bortnikov, the head of FSB, to suspend flights to Egypt... What is this? They decided to not swim against the flow this time or there is indeed something about Egypt that we don't know?

Possible that this is an attack of an aircraft of Israeli secret service. Putin probably does not want Bibi to destroy other Russian aircraft. Daesh remain the false alibi (false flag). Now we should ask if Western know this.

 

[no-mans-land]

"According to its chronology, the Airbus A321 began losing vertical speed from 576 feet per minute to negative 320 feet per minute at an altitude of 30,750 in the span of one second at 04:13:14 GMT.

The aircraft began descending at the speed of 3,584 feet per minute with increased vertical speed of negative 3,584 feet per minute at 04:13:15. By 04:13:18, its vertical speed was negative 8,384 feet per minute.

An unknown event that cut the plane’s vertical speed by more than half at an altitude of 29,750 feet occurred at 04:13:19. As the plane reached maximum descent of 24,960 feet, FlightRadar stopped processing altitude data at 30,670 feet at the descending altitude of 20,352 feet per minute.

The new data was released at the request of French and Egyptian investigative authorities."

To put that in more intelligible language: The plane was ascending at 10km/h at 30,750ft when it suddenly started descending at 65km/h within one second. Three seconds later it was descending at 153km/h. It went on to reach a downward "terminal velocity" of 456km/h before radar data was lost.

Here's my question. If for some reason the plane's engines abruptly failed while on an slight ascending course, and the plane began to fall, or rather glide, how long would it take the plane to register a descending speed of 153km/h? 3 seconds?

Free fall speed (i.e. no air resistance) for an inert object after 3 seconds is 108km/h.

Has anyone ever slapped an object straight downwards as it was flying past them, like a frisbee for example?

Just doing the proof read of your focus article in German and there seems to be a small discrepancy here. The plane was ascending at 10 km/h (576 fps) and within one second, it was descending with a rate of 320 feet per second, that is, 5 km/h, not 65 km/h.

Or does it revere to something else?

Edit:

Another thing here:

An unknown event that cut the plane’s vertical speed by more than half at an altitude of 29,750 feet occurred at 04:13:19. As the plane reached maximum descent of 24,960 feet, FlightRadar stopped processing altitude data at 30,670 feet at the descending altitude of 20,352 feet per minute.

The whole paragraph doesn't make sense. How could the FlightRadar stop recording altitude data at 31.000 feet, which is the minimum cruise altitude and then provide data for descending speed at lower altitudes? Are there two different sources involved here and what is meant by "unknown event that cut the plane’s vertical speed by more than half at an altitude of 29,750 feet occurred at 04:13:19", which is one second after the plane allegedly was descending with 8.300 feet per minute. Did something suddenly slowed the falling of the plane down to 4.150 feet per minute only to reach the terminal descending speed of 20.352 later?

 

[bjorb]

Major Russian media report that Vladimir Putin agreed with the suggestion of Alexander Bortnikov, the head of FSB, to suspend flights to Egypt... What is this? They decided to not swim against the flow this time or there is indeed something about Egypt that we don't know?

Just speculating here but,

PTB (Western Empire) are rather serious about hiding the truth about our hostile cosmic environment. Assuming that the Russian authorities know about this reality and how sensible this info lies by the PTB.

It may be that Russia finds it more strategic to play along for now before a Russian commercial airliner will actually be taken down by whatever means by 'ISIS'. Just to discourage Russia to conclude it was a meteor blast and to divert people even more about this urgent reality.

I suspect 'ISIS' or whatever group is going to take down a lot of commercial airplanes in the coming times. It could even go as far that they would shut down whole airspaces for this fabricated threat. How else to hide people from the obvious truth that the sky is falling.


- ''Charlie Hebdo'' cartoons are disgusting like always. Whoever buys this crap or proclaims ''I am Charlie'' is serious disturbed.

 

[angelburst29]

Major Russian media report that Vladimir Putin agreed with the suggestion of Alexander Bortnikov, the head of FSB, to suspend flights to Egypt... What is this? They decided to not swim against the flow this time or there is indeed something about Egypt that we don't know?

Also on Tass:
Putin agrees to suspend flights to Egypt until causes of A321 crash are clear — Kremlin
http://tass.ru/en/politics/834456

Flights to Egypt have been suspended at the instruction of Russian President Vladimir Putin until proper security level is ensured, Putin’s presssecretary Dmitry Peskov told journalists on Friday.

He said suspension was applicable to all flights to Egypt, not only to Sharm el-Sheikh, from where the ill-fated A321 was heading.

"So far, the president’s vision of the ultimate point of this decision is until proper level of air service security is ensured with the Egyptians," Peskov stressed.

So far, there is no exact information on how many Russians are staying in Egypt. In the meantime, commercial director of Tez Tour, a Russian biggest travel operator, Alexander Burtin, told TASS from 30,000 to 40,000 Russian might be vacationing at Egypt’s Sharm el-Sheikh. "It’s high season there now," he said.

Sinai plane crash: Russia and Egypt urge caution on bomb theory
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34732213

Russia and Egypt have urged caution over suggestions from the UK and US that a Russian airliner that crashed in Sinai on Saturday, killing 224 people, may have been bombed

In other developments:
German airline Lufthansa says its subsidiaries Edelweiss and Eurowings are halting flights to Sharm el-Sheikh as a "precautionary" measure and will arrange return flights
Belgian airline Jetairfly postponed its Thursday flight from Brussels to the Egyptian resort for 24 hours while it analysed the security situation
Both France and the Netherlands are advising their citizens against travel to and from Sharm el-Sheikh airport
Ireland and the UK announced the suspension of all flights to the resort on Wednesday, but the UK later said it would start to repatriate Britons on Friday

 

[angelburst29]

I wish these reports would list names, instead of "a source close to?"?

'Powerful explosion' brought down Metrojet, probe finds
http://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/powerful-explosion-brought-down-metrojet-probe-finds-34172124.html

Additionally, a judiciary source in the investigation team said "the cause of the crash is an explosion at the engine. The reason of the explosion will be determined on the examination of the crash site and the test of the bodies".

Last night, an Egyptian doctor spoke after days of dealing with the dead of the Metrojet crash. The doctor, whom had been stationed at Cairo's main morgue, was involved in examining about half of the 224 bodies from the disaster.

Around 25 of the bodies he looked at had suffered serious burns, to the point where they were seriously charred and would require DNA samples to identify.

The doctor said most of the burns were ante-mortem, ie. had been suffered before death. He said there was no way to know exactly what had caused the fire but that it appeared there must have been serious flames inside the cabin as the plane broke up. Such a fire could have been caused by a bomb but equally could be the result of an engine fire or the eruption of a fuel tank, he said.

He said that the finding suggests a fire broke out in the cabin while the plane was still in the air, but the doctor was not able to firmly conclude what caused the fire.

This should be viewed alongside news that preliminary tests on bodies recovered from the crash site have not revealed any traces of explosives.

 

[Joe]

Just doing the proof read of your focus article in German and there seems to be a small discrepancy here. The plane was ascending at 10 km/h (576 fps) and within one second, it was descending with a rate of 320 feet per second, that is, 5 km/h, not 65 km/h.

Or does it revere to something else?

The one second interval I was referring to was based on the timing. at 04:13:14, when the plane was ascending at 576ft per min and then at 04:13:15 when it was descending at 3,584ft per minute.

Another thing here:

An unknown event that cut the plane’s vertical speed by more than half at an altitude of 29,750 feet occurred at 04:13:19. As the plane reached maximum descent of 24,960 feet, FlightRadar stopped processing altitude data at 30,670 feet at the descending altitude of 20,352 feet per minute.

The whole paragraph doesn't make sense. How could the FlightRadar stop recording altitude data at 31.000 feet, which is the minimum cruise altitude and then provide data for descending speed at lower altitudes? Are there two different sources involved here and what is meant by "unknown event that cut the plane’s vertical speed by more than half at an altitude of 29,750 feet occurred at 04:13:19", which is one second after the plane allegedly was descending with 8.300 feet per minute. Did something suddenly slowed the falling of the plane down to 4.150 feet per minute only to reach the terminal descending speed of 20.352 later?

Not really sure about that one, it's a direct quote from Sputnik.

 

[Joe]

Is everyone noticing the blatant attempt by the Brits and Americans to spin the situation into a "more security at airports needed" scenario, based on their belief that a bomb brought the plane down which is, in turn, based on what they say is "chatter" after the fact, i.e. NOT on any actual evidence? It's such a barefaced attempt to muddy the waters and push forward the "I want everyone to know WHY THEY NEED US!!" agenda. It's a perfect example of what Clube said decades ago:

"We do not need the celestial threat to disguise Cold War intentions; rather we need the Cold War to disguise celestial intentions!"

Or in this case, "Muslim terrorism to disguise celestial intentions!"

 

[Keit]

Or in this case, "Muslim terrorism to disguise celestial intentions!"

I do wonder how Russians can go about it, realistically. It's clear that they know that this ISIS bomb story is a complete BS, but then for some reason "under recommendation of the Russian intelligence" Putin decides to make the West believe that he bought the lies, at least for now, and also halts the flights to Egypt. Maybe Russia is being maneuvered into a situation where they can't call the bluff in a totally open way? Maybe the intelligence people told Putin that there is a danger the West may fabricate an event to solidify the lie?

Personally, I doubt that they would go with the possible meteorite story anyway, also because many people wouldn't accept it as a possibility. Russians are in such a shock, that such an outrageous explanation would seem as another insult. That's why the Russian officials say that they concentrate on finding out how to prevent such accidents in the future instead of finding out how exactly it happened. I think that maybe Russian top officials are either unaware of the extend of the cosmic threat (though doubtful, because there are many good reports by Russian scientists about it), or they don't have any interest in going there at the moment. But maybe something else is going on.

Any thoughts on that?

 

[Joe]

Or in this case, "Muslim terrorism to disguise celestial intentions!"

I do wonder how Russians can go about it, realistically. It's clear that they know that this ISIS bomb story is a complete BS, but then for some reason "under recommendation of the Russian intelligence" Putin decides to make the West believe that he bought the lies, at least for now, and also halts the flights to Egypt. Maybe Russia is being maneuvered into a situation where they can't call the bluff in a totally open way? Maybe the intelligence people told Putin that there is a danger the West may fabricate an event to solidify the lie?

Personally, I doubt that they would go with the possible meteorite story anyway, also because many people wouldn't accept it as a possibility. Russians are in such a shock, that such an outrageous explanation would seem as another insult. That's why the Russian officials say that they concentrate on finding out how to prevent such accidents in the future instead of finding out how exactly it happened. I think that maybe Russian top officials are either unaware of the extend of the cosmic threat (though doubtful, because there are many good reports by Russian scientists about it), or they don't have any interest in going there at the moment. But maybe something else is going on.

Any thoughts on that?

I tend to think that VERY few people are aware of this particular threat, or take it seriously. Consider the possibility that a space rock can enter the atmosphere anywhere, no one tracks it, no one SEES it because it is not "burning", it explodes and causes a shock wave that downs an airliner. Anyone in the area would have heard a 'boom' and might have seen the stricken plane come down, but that would just be used as evidence of a bomb. Bombs go 'boom', after all. BUT, upon investigation there is no evidence for a bomb or missile, nothing other than a "physical force" - air pressure in this case and likely an EMP - that smacked the plane causing it break up and crash. Even if someone suspected it, how are they going to prove it without no evidence whatsoever?

 

[Joe]

Notice this on the recent "bomb" explanation:

An unnamed source reportedly linked to the investigation into the flight data recorders claimed the Metrojet flight was 'definitely' blown up by an explosive device.

The claims were reported by French news magazine Le Point, which said the findings emerged after analysis of the black boxes by Russian, French, German and Irish investigators in Cairo.

The source, who has not been independently verified, said: 'It was not a probable security violation but a definite one.

But:

However, the claims by Le point also come amid reports that another source close to the investigation said the black boxes were yielding almost no useful information on establishing the cause of the disaster.

The insider said the flight data recorder 'abruptly' stopped working just over 20 minutes from takeoff, without giving any clue over the nature of the catastrophe which hit the plane.

And the voice recorder, including crucial conversations involving the pilots, is 'badly damaged' and 'may also be useless', according to Kommersant.

And:

A source familiar with the contents of the black boxes from the crashed plane in Sinai told AFP the recording showed that “everything was normal during the flight, absolutely normal, and suddenly there was nothing.” He described the accident as a “violent, sudden” demise

Meanwhile, a source with access to the black boxes told France 2 TV channel that a sound similar to that of an explosion could be heard on the recording.

The black boxes are located in the very rear of the plane, i.e. the part that for some reason appears to have broken off.

 

[Aeneas]

Or in this case, "Muslim terrorism to disguise celestial intentions!"

I do wonder how Russians can go about it, realistically. It's clear that they know that this ISIS bomb story is a complete BS, but then for some reason "under recommendation of the Russian intelligence" Putin decides to make the West believe that he bought the lies, at least for now, and also halts the flights to Egypt. Maybe Russia is being maneuvered into a situation where they can't call the bluff in a totally open way? Maybe the intelligence people told Putin that there is a danger the West may fabricate an event to solidify the lie?

Personally, I doubt that they would go with the possible meteorite story anyway, also because many people wouldn't accept it as a possibility. Russians are in such a shock, that such an outrageous explanation would seem as another insult. That's why the Russian officials say that they concentrate on finding out how to prevent such accidents in the future instead of finding out how exactly it happened. I think that maybe Russian top officials are either unaware of the extend of the cosmic threat (though doubtful, because there are many good reports by Russian scientists about it), or they don't have any interest in going there at the moment. But maybe something else is going on.

Any thoughts on that?

I tend to think that VERY few people are aware of this particular threat, or take it seriously. Consider the possibility that a space rock can enter the atmosphere anywhere, no one tracks it, no one SEES it because it is not "burning", it explodes and causes a shock wave that downs an airliner. Anyone in the area would have heard a 'boom' and might have seen the stricken plane come down, but that would just be used as evidence of a bomb. Bombs go 'boom', after all. BUT, upon investigation there is no evidence for a bomb or missile, nothing other than a "physical force" - air pressure in this case and likely an EMP - that smacked the plane causing it break up and crash. Even if someone suspected it, how are they going to prove it without no evidence whatsoever?

Regarding why Russia is now coming out and cancelling flights to Egypt, one should also bear in mind that Russia in not alone in this investigation. Egypt is the other key player in the investigation, and there have been numerous reports that appear to show disagreements between the Russian and the Egyptian authorities.
Cancelling of flights to Egypt will hurt that country badly.

Regarding the meteor scenario, they also have to be in agreement whether to disclose or not, as disagreements could create bad feelings, which will hurt their growing bilateral relationship.

Concerning Egypt then it gets money from Saudi Arabien (for which it has sent a token army to help in Yemen), it further got some new jets from the US a few days ago, though the relationship has not been great since the US supported Morsi and then there is Russia to whom Egypt is appearing to be getting a good relationship with again. In other words, Russia might be quite clear about it's strategy, whereas the story with Egypt is more complex and they have many to please.

This could all play a part to the 'mixed' signals that we are getting and why Russia has cancelled flights.