Russian Passenger Plane Crashes Over Egypt

[mabar]

On top of that, how the authorities would answer if people star doing questions regarding this particular threat, it might go out of control and god forbid!... either way it may happen sooner or later, though. But when it happens, they -authorities- would come with answers as "we would not had known, etc." and population will keep believing them.

Perhaps there is evidence, depends on what they are looking for, no?, I think that, in these cases, the world order is coming up front, Egypt and Russia playing their roles, as well as US or UK.

I am more inclined to believe in below:

Or in this case, "Muslim terrorism to disguise celestial intentions!"

 

[Kisito]

Something is wrong with the thesis of the bomb. If that was sponsored by ISIS to punish Russia, so why ISIS has not programmed the explosion over a Russian city. That would have killed more people, and it would have a symbolic impact stronger!

 

[Nević Nenad]

"According to its chronology, the Airbus A321 began losing vertical speed from 576 feet per minute to negative 320 feet per minute at an altitude of 30,750 in the span of one second at 04:13:14 GMT.

The aircraft began descending at the speed of 3,584 feet per minute with increased vertical speed of negative 3,584 feet per minute at 04:13:15. By 04:13:18, its vertical speed was negative 8,384 feet per minute.

An unknown event that cut the plane’s vertical speed by more than half at an altitude of 29,750 feet occurred at 04:13:19. As the plane reached maximum descent of 24,960 feet, FlightRadar stopped processing altitude data at 30,670 feet at the descending altitude of 20,352 feet per minute.

The new data was released at the request of French and Egyptian investigative authorities."

To put that in more intelligible language: The plane was ascending at 10km/h at 30,750ft when it suddenly started descending at 65km/h within one second. Three seconds later it was descending at 153km/h. It went on to reach a downward "terminal velocity" of 456km/h before radar data was lost.

Here's my question. If for some reason the plane's engines abruptly failed while on an slight ascending course, and the plane began to fall, or rather glide, how long would it take the plane to register a descending speed of 153km/h? 3 seconds?

Free fall speed (i.e. no air resistance) for an inert object after 3 seconds is 108km/h.

Has anyone ever slapped an object straight downwards as it was flying past them, like a frisbee for example?

Just doing the proof read of your focus article in German and there seems to be a small discrepancy here. The plane was ascending at 10 km/h (576 fps) and within one second, it was descending with a rate of 320 feet per second, that is, 5 km/h, not 65 km/h.

Or does it revere to something else?

Edit:

Another thing here:

An unknown event that cut the plane’s vertical speed by more than half at an altitude of 29,750 feet occurred at 04:13:19. As the plane reached maximum descent of 24,960 feet, FlightRadar stopped processing altitude data at 30,670 feet at the descending altitude of 20,352 feet per minute.

The whole paragraph doesn't make sense. How could the FlightRadar stop recording altitude data at 31.000 feet, which is the minimum cruise altitude and then provide data for descending speed at lower altitudes? Are there two different sources involved here and what is meant by "unknown event that cut the plane’s vertical speed by more than half at an altitude of 29,750 feet occurred at 04:13:19", which is one second after the plane allegedly was descending with 8.300 feet per minute. Did something suddenly slowed the falling of the plane down to 4.150 feet per minute only to reach the terminal descending speed of 20.352 later?

Aviation enthusiasts who use FlightRadar knows that it is not so reliable under 30.000 feet (location depending). Even FlightRadar is pointing that on their website. Maybe that could be the answer.

For the second question, I assume that they are describing secondary stall, after which plane fell apart. Also, I think that it is translation of the translation what we read there, so something might been loss in the process.

 

[angelburst29]

I sense - there's something more going on here "behind the scenes" especially with this airport fiasco? U.K was the first to yell "bomb" then started pulling their tourist out of Egypt. It's like the U.K. is riding shot-gun to get their people out first - demanded 20 aircraft carrying about 4,000 people back to Britain out on Friday with the restriction they would not be allowed to take luggage in the hold - only be allowed to carry hand luggage. Is the U.K smuggling something out of Egypt in the cargo bay?

Putin has not only ordered suspension of tourist flights but also evacuation of all Russian citizens still in the country.

In the link below, towards the end of the page are two photo's worth looking at of damage to the plane?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11978962/Russian-plane-crash-sharm-el-sheikh-stranded-British-tourists-latest-updates.html

Suspended flights are first sign Moscow suspects terrorism

According to Russian news agency TASS, there are currently 45,000 tourists on holiday in Egypt. Russian tourists are the biggest group in Sharm, followed by Britons.

Our correspondent Roland Oliphant, in Moscow, writes: Vladimir Putin has ordered the suspension of tourist flights from Russia to Egypt
and the evacuation of all Russian citizens still in the country, in the first signs that Russian officials suspect Metrojet flight 7K9268 may have been destroyed by terrorists.

"Mr Putin has asked the government to develop a mechanism for realization of the reccomendation of the National Anti-terrorrism Committee and ensure the return home of Russian citizens," Mr Putin's press secretary Dmitry Peskov said on Friday afternoon.

The announcement came just minutes after Russia's top spy publicly called for Russian airlines to halt flights to Egypt until the causes of Saturday's air disaster become clear.

"Until we have established the causes of this incident I think it appropriate to halt Russian flights to Egypt, this primarily concerns tourism," Alexander Bortnikov, the head of the Federal Security Service, said at a meeting of the country's anti-terrorism committee.

Meanwhile Vladimir Puchkov, the head of Russia's emergencies ministry, has said aircraft wreckage and other debris is being tested for explosives in Moscow.

"Russian specialists have taken swabs and scrapings from all fragments of the aircraft, luggage and the ground - from anything that could carry traces of explosives," he said. "These samples have been delivered to Moscow, and are currently being carefully studied.

"The best, most highly trained specialists, using the most modern technical equipment, are on the case. I can say with all certainty that if there are traces of explosives they will be found."

Countries that have announced suspension of Flights to Egypt:
* German
* France
* Belgian
* Netherlands
* Ireland
* U.K.
* and now Russia

* British spies uncovered Isil bomb plot

The Egyptian security shutdown was sparked after British spies intercepted messages which showed Isil extremists had plotted a major terror attack in the region, the Telegraph can disclose.

The communications and “chatter” - uncovered by British intelligence only after the Russian passenger jet tragedy - are what led David Cameron to say it was “more likely than not” that a bomb brought the plane down on Saturday killing 224 people.

The intelligence resulted in Britain suspending all flights to and from Sharm el-Sheikh, leaving 20,000 British tourists stranded at the holiday resort.

Flights will resume on Friday with 20 aircraft carrying about 4,000 people back to Britain. But passengers were warned they would not be allowed to take luggage in the hold.


* Barack Obama, speaking on a Kiro/CBS radio station:

We are taking very seriously the possibility that there was a bomb on board.

We're going to spend a lot of time just making sure our own investigators and own intelligence community find out what's going on before we make any definitive pronouncements. But it's certainly possible that there was a bomb on board.


* The German airline, Lufthansa, has also halted flights by its subsidiary, Eurowings, to Sharm el-Sheikh and the Belgian government has advised its nationals against flying to the resort.


* British tourists trapped in Sharm el-Sheikh will start coming home on Friday.

In all there are an estimated 20,000 UK holidaymakers who have been stranded at the resort since flights were halted.

Around 4,000 will be on the first batch of 20 planes leaving Sharm el-Sheikh, they will only be allowed to carry hand luggage. The rest of their baggage will be transported separately.

A total of 17 flights to Britain were suspended yesterday, leaving 3,500 people with no way home. However, it may be “weeks” before outbound flights to the resort resume.


* Summary of the last 24 hours (Located down - near end of page - 2 Photo's)
Egypt's aircraft security shutdown was instigated after British spies intercepted messages which showed that Isil extremists had plotted a major terrorist attack in the region.

The policy suggests that officials fear a bomb was smuggled into the hold of flight 7K9268 inside checked luggage.

Latest photographs of the wreckage of flight 9268 appear to show holes in the fuselage punched from the inside out, suggesting an explosion inside the Airbus A321. (Photo)

The ringed area appears to show where shrapnel has exited the fuselage of Flight 9268 Photo: EPA

Internal components including part of a door also appear to have been peppered with shrapnel from inside the cabin.

The ringed area appears to show an area peppered with shrapnel in the wreckage of Flight 9268 Photo: TASS/Corbis


* Easyjet plans would be a "huge burden"
Egyptian officials have said Easyjet's plans would have left their airport overburdened. "The British airline wants to schedule 18 flights at the same time and wants to transport British passengers from Sharm al-Sheikh without their luggage, which we would have to transport later,"

Only eight out of 29 planned flights to Britain will leave Sharm el-Sheikh today to repatriate stranded tourists, Egypt's civil aviation minister said, blaming luggage restrictions for the reduction.

 

[angelburst29]

I don't dispute the possibility of a meteorite event or something on that order bringing down the Russian plane but there is a lot of activity on the sidelines, especially at the airport and countries announcing suspension of flights.

Looking at information leading up to the crash of Flight A321 might help discover what's really going on at the Sharm el-Sheikh Airport?

Sept. 22 - Netanyahu Goes to Moscow
http://www.bridgesforpeace.com/il/news/article/netanyahu-goes-to-moscow

Sept. 30 - Russian military forces start airstrikes in Syria - Ministry of Defense
https://www.rt.com/news/317042-russia-start-operation-syria/

Oct. 2 - Syria Update# Air Duel between the Sukhoi Su - 30 Russian SM and Israeli F-15
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=53f_1443836190

Oct 3 - NATO, US stand by Turkey after Russian airspace violation
http://www.todayszaman.com/_nato-us-stand-by-turkey-after-russian-airspace-violation_400622.html

Oct. 3 - 36,000 troops, 200 aircraft & 60 vessels: NATO launches biggest war games in 13 years
http://www.rt.com/news/317564-trident-juncture-nato-drills/

Oct. 3 - Israel Supports Syrian Al Qaeda Rebels including the Islamic State (ISIS). UN Report
http://www.globalresearch.ca/un-report-israel-supports-syrian-al-qaeda-rebels-including-the-islamic-state-isis/5429363

Oct. 4 - Moscow informs Ankara about Russian plane incident — Turkish PM
http://tass.ru/en/world/826285

Oct 11 - Russia using electronic warfare to cloak its actions in Syria from Isis and Nato
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/russia-using-electronic-warfare-cloak-its-actions-syria-isis-nato-1523328

Oct. 11 - US pulls aircraft carrier out of Persian Gulf as Russian ships enter
http://presstv.com/Detail/2015/10/10/432800/US-warship-Persian-Gulf

Oct. 13 - Putin slams US on Syria, says partners have 'mush for brains'
http://news.yahoo.com/putin-slams-us-syria-says-partners-mush-brains-113850683.html

Oct. 14 - U.S. Warns Russia Of “Reprisal Attacks” … Russia Foils Attempted “Reprisal Attacks”
http://www.activistpost.com/2015/10/u-s-warns-russia-of-reprisal-attacks-russia-foils-attempted-reprisal-attacks.html

Oct. 15 - US Rejects Meeting With Russian Delegation Over Moscow's Syria Strategy
http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151014/1028536556/us-russia-syrian-strategy.html

Oct. 18 - Russian warplanes intercept Israeli fighters in southern Syria
http://en.mehrnews.com/news/111158/Russian-warplanes-intercept-Israeli-fighters-in-southern-Syria?

Oct. 18 - Israeli, American, Greek, and Polish air personnel square off against a fictional enemy state in two-week drill
http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-hosts-its-largest-ever-international-air-force-exercise (Oct. 18 - Oct. 29)

Oct. 19, - Russia Summons French Envoy Over Dangerous Aviation Incident in France
http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151019/1028758804/russia-summons-french-envoy-aviation-incident.html

Oct. 19 - Russian lawmaker calls incident with Duma speaker’s plane unfriendly act by NATO
http://tass.ru/en/politics/830032

Oct. 21 - Syria's Assad flies to Moscow to thank Russia's Putin for air strikes
http://news.yahoo.com/syrias-assad-met-putin-moscow-discuss-military-campaign-064706283--business.html

Oct. 21 - Cell of Hizb ut-Tahrir al-Islami terrorist organization eliminated in Moscow Region
http://tass.ru/en/politics/830290

Oct. 26 - Syrian Army Seizes Israeli backed Base on Golan Heights
http://www.inspiretochangeworld.com/2015/10/syrian-army-seizes-israeli-backed-base-on-golan-heights/

Oct. 29 - United States Delivers Four F-16 Fighter Jets to Egyptian Armed Forces
_http://egypt.usembassy.gov/pr103016.html

Oct 29 - Israeli International Drill - Blue Flag - ends

Oct. 30 - Vienna talks: 19 global powers to work to establish nationwide Syria ceasefire
https://www.rt.com/news/320178-lavrov-syria-vienna-ceasefire/

Oct. 30 - Syria: Obama authorizes boots on ground to fight ISIS
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/30/politics/syria-troops-special-operations-forces/index.html

Oct 31 - Russian Airliner Goes Off Radar Over Egypt
http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151031/1029377194/russian-airliner-egypt-contact-lost.html

Nov. 3 - Kremlin attaches no importance to absence of condolences from Obama over plane crash
http://tass.ru/en/politics/833725

The area of debris where the Russian plane crashed - is near the Israeli Border and where a two week International Drill was taken place from Oct. 18 - 29th. Yet, on the 30th, timesofisrael came out with an article stating an extension to Nov. 3rd or 5th? RT picked up on the article, also publishing it on the 30th. The timing of the article and the dates are confusing. There's been conflicting data from Egyptian spoke persons, which is then denied by Russian Authorities. U.S. and U. K. have been adding to the chaos, yet Obama never personally sent "Condolences" to the Russian people on behalf of the American's? Kerry was the stand in. Obama and Israel have been mostly silent on the plane crash developments - which is interesting in itself. U.K's behavior at the Airport is questionable - like they can't get the British people out of Egypt - fast enough? Something feels really - wrong - like there is more going on, then just the Plane crash?

 

[Cosmos]

What if the crash was indeed caused by a natural event like a meteor and/or plasma phenomena and the US/UK government decided after the fact to blame it on a bomb on board and at the same time give there ISIS terrorsits the order to confess that they were behind it, in order to steer up turmoil in the russian population so that people there say:

"ISIS brought down the plane, our government promised that the lives of our people do not get at risk with the syrian bombing campaign. Putin stop the bombing of ISIS, because russian civilians are targeted! That's not good, lets not help syria anymore, because there is to much risk for our people!"

Sort of getting russian people to not support the syrian campain anymore and thus the government strategy.

 

[Siberia]

BBC says:

New intelligence was received on Wednesday. The UK government's Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre (JTAC) has spent the past few days assessing what brought the plane down.

Security service investigators suspect someone with access to the aircraft's baggage compartment inserted an explosive device inside or on top of the luggage just before the plane took off.

Read more: _http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34742273

Nevermind that the luggage looks too good for this version.

 

[loreta]

U.K's behavior at the Airport is questionable - like they can't get the British people out of Egypt - fast enough? Something feels really - wrong - like there is more going on, then just the Plane crash?

Are they acting like this to scare people, to prepare people to something bigger? It seems something frenetic, hysterical also, not normal at all. It is not the first time that a plane crash on the earth, nor by a bomb but this one put all the governments on alert. Is this region where the plane crashed a future region of war? I would have understood the British reaction IF the airplane have been a British airplane, but it was a Russian one. So it seems that something is coming OR they are doing all this parade just to scare people, again and put people on stress and annoying people that are simply taking holidays under the sun. And again also the tourism on a Muslim country will be very affected.

 

[Konstantin]

Or , what if all those countries that have cancelled their flights to Egypt know that maybe some king of weather, atmospheric, electromagnetic anomaly is present somewhere in that area, and they dont want to risk anymore. And all that ISIS bomb missile story is just an attempt to score, just a chance to show that they are still capable to fight back despite all that Russian airstrikes.

 

[loreta]

Or , what if all those countries that have cancelled their flights to Egypt know that maybe some king of weather, atmospheric, electromagnetic anomaly is present somewhere in that area, and they dont want to risk anymore. And all that ISIS bomb missile story is just an attempt to score, just a chance to show that they are still capable to fight back despite all that Russian airstrikes.

Can it be something solar? Like what happened in Sweeden 3 days ago?

Planes were grounded at some of Sweden's busiest airports on Wednesday afternoon because of a "solar storm" interfering with air traffic control radar systems, authorities said.

No aircraft were allowed to take off from airports in southern and central Sweden due to a massive geomagnetic solar flare storm causing problems for radar systems.

Ulf Wallin, press spokesperson at Swedavia, the organization managing Sweden's airports, told TT that airports at Landvetter in Gothenburg and Arlanda and Bromma in Stockholm were affected.

"Those airplanes that are in the air are allowed to land at the airports they're going to, but no planes are taking off," he said.

The problems began at around 3.30pm on Wednesday. An hour later, traffic had begun to return to normal, but it was not known when airports would be operating at full capacity again, said Per Fröberg, press spokesperson for Luftfartsverket, responsible for air traffic control in Sweden.

"[The solar storm] has meant that we haven't been able to see the airplanes on our radar screens. We are starting to get the systems up and running again but it's unclear when everything will be back to normal," he told the Aftonbladet tabloid.

Solar flares are bursts of radiation emitted from the sun during a geomagnetic storm. If powerful enough, it can disrupt satellite-based communications, including radar and GPS systems. In 2003 a similar storm caused power blackouts for thousands of homes in southern Sweden.

The Swedish Armed Forces said its own systems had not been affected.

"We have been given the information for our reference, but we have separate systems and have not been affected at all," spokesman Johannes Hellqvist told Aftonbladet.

Heavy delays were expected for air travellers for the rest of Wednesday afternoon and evening.

http://www.thelocal.se/20151104/solar-storm-grounds-swedish-air-traffic

 

[no-mans-land]

Just doing the proof read of your focus article in German and there seems to be a small discrepancy here. The plane was ascending at 10 km/h (576 fps) and within one second, it was descending with a rate of 320 feet per second, that is, 5 km/h, not 65 km/h.

Or does it revere to something else?

The one second interval I was referring to was based on the timing. at 04:13:14, when the plane was ascending at 576ft per min and then at 04:13:15 when it was descending at 3,584ft per minute.

Ah, OK, that make sense. I thought about the first interval.

Another thing here:

An unknown event that cut the plane’s vertical speed by more than half at an altitude of 29,750 feet occurred at 04:13:19. As the plane reached maximum descent of 24,960 feet, FlightRadar stopped processing altitude data at 30,670 feet at the descending altitude of 20,352 feet per minute.

The whole paragraph doesn't make sense. How could the FlightRadar stop recording altitude data at 31.000 feet, which is the minimum cruise altitude and then provide data for descending speed at lower altitudes? Are there two different sources involved here and what is meant by "unknown event that cut the plane’s vertical speed by more than half at an altitude of 29,750 feet occurred at 04:13:19", which is one second after the plane allegedly was descending with 8.300 feet per minute. Did something suddenly slowed the falling of the plane down to 4.150 feet per minute only to reach the terminal descending speed of 20.352 later?

Not really sure about that one, it's a direct quote from Sputnik.

We tried to figure out where Sputnik got the data from since FlightRadar24 show a different set of numbers that doesn't match. Maybe its really due to the translation of the translation.

 

[Windmill knight]

"ISIS" is continuing their nonsense:

In another statement on Wednesday, IS insisted it had brought down the plane, challenging sceptics to prove otherwise.

"We are under no obligation to explain how it came down," the group said in the audio statement posted on social media sites.

"Prove that we didn't bring it down, and how it came down. We will detail how it came down at the time of our choosing."

_http://news.yahoo.com/insists-brought-down-russian-plane-egypt-112513909.html

That's hilarious! I have another challenge for ISIS. Prove that Chuck Norris didn't do it. Since they can't, therefore he did it!

Seriously, I don't think those clowns are anywhere near having the capability of pulling anything other than driving around the desert in their brand new Toyotas getting high and shooting at random civilians. Smuggling bombs into planes is way above their league. Unless they get their alphabet soup sponsors to do it for them of course.

 

[Siberia]

"ISIS" is continuing their nonsense:

In another statement on Wednesday, IS insisted it had brought down the plane, challenging sceptics to prove otherwise.

"We are under no obligation to explain how it came down," the group said in the audio statement posted on social media sites.

"Prove that we didn't bring it down, and how it came down. We will detail how it came down at the time of our choosing."

_http://news.yahoo.com/insists-brought-down-russian-plane-egypt-112513909.html

That's hilarious! I have another challenge for ISIS. Prove that Chuck Norris didn't do it. Since they can't, therefore he did it!

Seriously, I don't think those clowns are anywhere near having the capability of pulling anything other than driving around the desert in their brand new Toyotas getting high and shooting at random civilians. Smuggling bombs into planes is way above their league. Unless they get their alphabet soup sponsors to do it for them of course.

Yeah, and it looks like Russia decided to delegate the "honor" of proving the bomb idea directly to its creators:

The Russian government remains tight lipped about the ongoing investigation. But we've learned Friday night that it has requested support from the FBI, most likely for its bomb analysis expertise.

Read more: _http://mmc-news.com/news-explosion-heard-on-cockpit-voice-recorder-of-downed-russian-airliner-310217.dbv

A smart move, imo: "You guys cried "wolf!", well then please come and show us the proof".

 

[angelburst29]

What if the crash was indeed caused by a natural event like a meteor and/or plasma phenomena and the US/UK government decided after the fact to blame it on a bomb on board and at the same time give there ISIS terrorsits the order to confess that they were behind it, in order to steer up turmoil in the russian population so that people there say:

"ISIS brought down the plane, our government promised that the lives of our people do not get at risk with the syrian bombing campaign. Putin stop the bombing of ISIS, because russian civilians are targeted! That's not good, lets not help syria anymore, because there is to much risk for our people!"

Sort of getting russian people to not support the syrian campain anymore and thus the government strategy.

Natural death or induced?

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,39681.480.html

RT says Lesin died of a heart attack:

https://www.rt.com/news/321121-lesin-dies-heart-attack/

Quote

Media tycoon & former Russian press minister Lesin dies from heart attack at 57

Mikhail Lesin, a prominent Russian political figure and mass media expert credited with inspiring the creation of Russia Today (now RT), has died in Washington, DC after a heart attack.

Lesin, a former press minister and ex-head of Gazprom-Media, Russia’s largest media holding, died at the age of 57 on Wednesday, according to family members. “Mikhail Lesin died from a heart stroke,” a family member told RIA Novosti.

Meanwhile, TASS has reported that Lesin was found dead in his hotel room in Washington, DC, citing the Russian Embassy in the US. Police found no signs of foul play, but a formal investigation has been launched. It has been reported that Lesin had been suffering from a prolonged unidentified illness.

Russian President Vladimir Putin expressed his sincerest condolences to Lesin’s family early on Saturday.

 

[Windmill knight]

On top of that, how the authorities would answer if people star doing questions regarding this particular threat, it might go out of control and god forbid!... either way it may happen sooner or later, though. But when it happens, they -authorities- would come with answers as "we would not had known, etc." and population will keep believing them.

I don't think it's too surprising that Russia is acting as if it was the result of a bomb. They had no choice. Even if they thought it wasn't, they would be perceived as irresponsible for brushing the possibility aside, when in the minds of the public it's all too coincidential and terrorism is the obvious explanation. Besides, we don't know if the Russian government would take seriously the meteor strike scenario. It might be that even for them that would be 'too much'.