Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or "I, Psychopath"?
- Thread starter Laura
- Start date
Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?
You know, I wondered where WindSong went after her initial posts. I was curious about "her"? so I googled and found the site that she mentioned she was admin of. I think that she maybe only came to this site to chide a poster from the other forum, new to this site, participating recently in this thread. I googled my nick here and it led me back to this forum. It's the same for other nicknames, so if you use the same one at different sites, you can be found. Spooky.
You know, I wondered where WindSong went after her initial posts. I was curious about "her"? so I googled and found the site that she mentioned she was admin of. I think that she maybe only came to this site to chide a poster from the other forum, new to this site, participating recently in this thread. I googled my nick here and it led me back to this forum. It's the same for other nicknames, so if you use the same one at different sites, you can be found. Spooky.
PepperFritz
The Cosmic Force
Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?
Well, I don't think it turned out quite the way she hoped.... :P
Filachi said:
Well, I don't think it turned out quite the way she hoped.... :P
Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?
Um no.
Windsong had a good friend die right after she started posting here. To be honest, I forgot completely about this board and these postings.
Secondly, I take offense to implying I came here to harass another person. She/he is another human being who feels that they have been abused. As long as there is help out there for victims and survivors I am happy to see that, even if I don't like the forum lol. I am not an uncaring person who would do something like that. You want that check out the bad, I mean really bad boards. They are out there and I am not one of them. I'm sad that whoever said that came to that conclusion.
I came here and ended up posting because I get tired of all the crap that is spouted about Sam and you people have no idea who he is. If you took the time to get to know him you might surprisingly find out that you would like him. But I don't hold out hope for that.
Finally, why make fun of my words? I don't mind someone asking me about my wording, but like ten of you and then you make fun of my words? I have no use for this place. I came, I saw, and I posted. And I found it AFTER I remembered I posted in the first place (please make no ill remarks about my friends death, please be respectful) not worth it. You are going to see what you want to see and I am going to see what I am going to see. There's no use in arguing about it, because like my daddy always told me, "Opinions are like a**holes. Everybody's got one". And I don't like yours and you don't like mine. What's the point? Stick a fork in me people, I'm done. I graciously bow out. Maybe it was losing my friend who was only 56 years old to a massive heart attack out of the blue, maybe it gave me some clarity in my life. It's the important things that matter most. This is fodder. If you don't know what that word means look it up!
Have a nice life and take care. I'm always up for a healthy debate, but this ain't one of them. Honestly, I wish you all the best and no harm no foul. It's just time to move on.
WindSong
Um no.
Windsong had a good friend die right after she started posting here. To be honest, I forgot completely about this board and these postings.
Secondly, I take offense to implying I came here to harass another person. She/he is another human being who feels that they have been abused. As long as there is help out there for victims and survivors I am happy to see that, even if I don't like the forum lol. I am not an uncaring person who would do something like that. You want that check out the bad, I mean really bad boards. They are out there and I am not one of them. I'm sad that whoever said that came to that conclusion.
I came here and ended up posting because I get tired of all the crap that is spouted about Sam and you people have no idea who he is. If you took the time to get to know him you might surprisingly find out that you would like him. But I don't hold out hope for that.
Finally, why make fun of my words? I don't mind someone asking me about my wording, but like ten of you and then you make fun of my words? I have no use for this place. I came, I saw, and I posted. And I found it AFTER I remembered I posted in the first place (please make no ill remarks about my friends death, please be respectful) not worth it. You are going to see what you want to see and I am going to see what I am going to see. There's no use in arguing about it, because like my daddy always told me, "Opinions are like a**holes. Everybody's got one". And I don't like yours and you don't like mine. What's the point? Stick a fork in me people, I'm done. I graciously bow out. Maybe it was losing my friend who was only 56 years old to a massive heart attack out of the blue, maybe it gave me some clarity in my life. It's the important things that matter most. This is fodder. If you don't know what that word means look it up!
Have a nice life and take care. I'm always up for a healthy debate, but this ain't one of them. Honestly, I wish you all the best and no harm no foul. It's just time to move on.
WindSong
Mountain Crown
The Living Force
Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?
It's interesting when someone is manipulative in a discussion and then ends it by wishing you well!
It's interesting when someone is manipulative in a discussion and then ends it by wishing you well!
Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?
Exactly how was I manipulative? I laid it all out. I don't like you people and I told you. Just because I don't like you doesn't mean that I am manipulative. I am nothing if not honest. and I don't hold any hard feelings and I wish you well. I tried, but it did no good. And, I am bowing out. What is wrong with that makes me manipulative?
Mountain Crown said:
Exactly how was I manipulative? I laid it all out. I don't like you people and I told you. Just because I don't like you doesn't mean that I am manipulative. I am nothing if not honest. and I don't hold any hard feelings and I wish you well. I tried, but it did no good. And, I am bowing out. What is wrong with that makes me manipulative?
Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?
I was being sarcastic. It's like "Where is Windsong?" and I came in with "Well SHE is" blah blah. I just knew that someone was going to say something about it! LOL God that was so predictable it sucks! You wanna pick on me? Surprise me and make it worth my while!
Gimpy said:
I was being sarcastic. It's like "Where is Windsong?" and I came in with "Well SHE is" blah blah. I just knew that someone was going to say something about it! LOL God that was so predictable it sucks! You wanna pick on me? Surprise me and make it worth my while!
Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?
That is quite true. In the beginning. But Sam and I worked together and I have gotten to know him over the last five years or so. This is so not a new friendship. I've seen him at his best and worst and he has seen me at mine. But in the beginning, yes, we are swooped off of our feet at the charm, but at some point that friendship is going to turn into a real thing, not just the beginning. You are going to walk roads together and see what is really there, the good, bad and ugly. And Sam and I have been friends long enough in each other's lives that we have been there. And I stand just as loyal to my friend as I always have. That is something that EVERY ONE of us go through in a relationship. Just as the N must out himself, friends always reveal their realness. That realness might be that your friend is an N or P. But you as a person with your own human feelings have to decide what this friend is really in your life. It is the way I have seen every friendship turn out just as the NP relationship does. You start out all excited about your new friend, to working through talking and really getting to know each other, to you both revealing through words or actions who you really are deep down. What we must decide is do we need this person in our life. Actions. As I have been saying with almost eight years behind me away from my own XNP, actions are what you watch. THAT is what is important. You can't just simply take someone at their word any more. Sadly, that doesn't cut it because we, as former victims of the NP's now know that words and actions are very much different.
I have very few true friendships now. After the XNP I discovered that their were just too many "fair weathered friends" who only wanted me for what I could do for them. I chose to stick with friendships that I have had for well over 20 years with some over those. I kicked them out of my life. Their actions didn't match their words.
Thank you for being respectful TC. That's my up front honest answer as to why and how I feel like I do. It takes time to know a person before you can judge them on their own merits. And I have done that with Sam. And he passed.
Take care!
T.C. said:
That is quite true. In the beginning. But Sam and I worked together and I have gotten to know him over the last five years or so. This is so not a new friendship. I've seen him at his best and worst and he has seen me at mine. But in the beginning, yes, we are swooped off of our feet at the charm, but at some point that friendship is going to turn into a real thing, not just the beginning. You are going to walk roads together and see what is really there, the good, bad and ugly. And Sam and I have been friends long enough in each other's lives that we have been there. And I stand just as loyal to my friend as I always have. That is something that EVERY ONE of us go through in a relationship. Just as the N must out himself, friends always reveal their realness. That realness might be that your friend is an N or P. But you as a person with your own human feelings have to decide what this friend is really in your life. It is the way I have seen every friendship turn out just as the NP relationship does. You start out all excited about your new friend, to working through talking and really getting to know each other, to you both revealing through words or actions who you really are deep down. What we must decide is do we need this person in our life. Actions. As I have been saying with almost eight years behind me away from my own XNP, actions are what you watch. THAT is what is important. You can't just simply take someone at their word any more. Sadly, that doesn't cut it because we, as former victims of the NP's now know that words and actions are very much different.
I have very few true friendships now. After the XNP I discovered that their were just too many "fair weathered friends" who only wanted me for what I could do for them. I chose to stick with friendships that I have had for well over 20 years with some over those. I kicked them out of my life. Their actions didn't match their words.
Thank you for being respectful TC. That's my up front honest answer as to why and how I feel like I do. It takes time to know a person before you can judge them on their own merits. And I have done that with Sam. And he passed.
Take care!
anart
A Disturbance in the Force
Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?
So you've posted three times after you said, rather rudely, that you were going to leave. This is after coming to this forum with a clear agenda and being rather rude and obnoxious about it. This is behavior often evidenced on this forum by pathologicals. I'm not saying that you are pathological, just that this behavior is consistent with that. Also, there has been nothing gracious about your behavior here, so I've taken the liberty of preventing you from posting further.
It has become increasingly clear that Sam Vankin is a psychopath - having a psychopath for a 'very dear friend' is rather like having a crocodile for a 'very dear friend' - but that is certainly your prerogative. Good luck with that - one way 'friendships' can be quite difficult. Then again, birds of a feather do tend to flock together.
So you've posted three times after you said, rather rudely, that you were going to leave. This is after coming to this forum with a clear agenda and being rather rude and obnoxious about it. This is behavior often evidenced on this forum by pathologicals. I'm not saying that you are pathological, just that this behavior is consistent with that. Also, there has been nothing gracious about your behavior here, so I've taken the liberty of preventing you from posting further.
It has become increasingly clear that Sam Vankin is a psychopath - having a psychopath for a 'very dear friend' is rather like having a crocodile for a 'very dear friend' - but that is certainly your prerogative. Good luck with that - one way 'friendships' can be quite difficult. Then again, birds of a feather do tend to flock together.
WindSong said:
ThePhoenixxx
A Disturbance in the Force
Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?
I've been reading this thread since I arrived here previously and had to comment.
I too know Vaknin, although not as well or as long as Windsong. And I have a few opinions about him. I'm glad he has a number of friends, everyone needs friends, even psychopaths. I say that from a spiritual standpoint. Its not part of my (usual) character to wish ill will on anyone, even a predator (for more than a few minutes at a time, then it usually goes away). Intellectually I dont want to be friends or a family member of one because I now know from experience how much damage they do given their disorder. However, there is the "attraction" of the thrill and adventure and risk that comes with getting close to a dangerous person. Thats why bad boys do so well on campuses and dating websites. They dont want for attention, female or otherwise.
I've been able to read communication with a few females who claim close, intimate relationships with Vaknin. They sound very similar when they speak of him.
I suspect there is some pride in being in the "inner circle" of Vaknins, or John Gotti, or my exN/S, or a Hells Angel. (Funny I just saw that portrayed in this mornings episode of the Sopranos on A&E when Dr. Melfi's mature older therapist got giddy recalling how there were some "dark sheep" - organized crime, hitmen --in his family "they were some tough Jews".)
I get that. It seems somehow evolutionary, afterall humans who couldnt tolerate risk and thrill made some very weak and skinny hunters, know what I mean?
But a trait like that, that can help create an interesting and intriguing life, complete with healthy risks and adventures, also makes us perfect targets for psychopaths.
I wonder how many of Vaknins female friends, who are past victims of N/S's, would find their dear friend flying to meet them if they were suddenly stricken with a grave illness, would attend their daughters wedding, would send a shower gift on the birth of their child, or show up with workgloves on moving day? The reason I ask is, those are the beautiful little treasures of friendship in an ordinary mundane life of a human being. Those are the actions of a friend, someone who is willing to be inconvenienced in order to be supportive and helpful. I suspect from what I know from my own personal communications with Vaknin, that he isnt capable of realizing those are valuable gifts of friendship to give. Or maybe I'm wrong and he does those things? I suspect he listens, and he speaks on the phone or through email, but then psychopaths like doing those things because theres something in it for them? attention.
My dealings with him have run the gamut from him being flirtatious, challenging, attacking, annihilating and then "sad" to see me go. But just like the tone of his book, it was also clear I was communicating with a disordered mind. I am quite certain he has his moments of being nice, just as we all have our moments of being egotistical. But I think a self-confessed disordered person being a real friend is sort of...hmmm...antithetical.
How can one GIVE friendship, real friendship, if one has no empathy or conscience?
I just want you to please hold in your awareness (because I fear anyone who has any love or affection for a psychopath is being used or will be damaged in the end), that it just might be as dysfunctional to believe a narcissist/psychopath feels the love of real friendship, as it is to believe one felt real love for you in your past romantic or childhood relationship with one. When my exN/S said he loved me, I am certain he felt something sweet, but like a 7 yr old feels something sweet for his mother; the desire to have her in his company, to get comfort and soothing from her, to get all the things from her that make him feel good. The 7 yr old does not wonder how best he can meet his mothers needs, because their brains arent wired for the mature give and take required when two adults love one another. That requires empathy. And Vaknin is the first to admit he has none.
I've been reading this thread since I arrived here previously and had to comment.
I too know Vaknin, although not as well or as long as Windsong. And I have a few opinions about him. I'm glad he has a number of friends, everyone needs friends, even psychopaths. I say that from a spiritual standpoint. Its not part of my (usual) character to wish ill will on anyone, even a predator (for more than a few minutes at a time, then it usually goes away). Intellectually I dont want to be friends or a family member of one because I now know from experience how much damage they do given their disorder. However, there is the "attraction" of the thrill and adventure and risk that comes with getting close to a dangerous person. Thats why bad boys do so well on campuses and dating websites. They dont want for attention, female or otherwise.
I've been able to read communication with a few females who claim close, intimate relationships with Vaknin. They sound very similar when they speak of him.
I suspect there is some pride in being in the "inner circle" of Vaknins, or John Gotti, or my exN/S, or a Hells Angel. (Funny I just saw that portrayed in this mornings episode of the Sopranos on A&E when Dr. Melfi's mature older therapist got giddy recalling how there were some "dark sheep" - organized crime, hitmen --in his family "they were some tough Jews".)
I get that. It seems somehow evolutionary, afterall humans who couldnt tolerate risk and thrill made some very weak and skinny hunters, know what I mean?
But a trait like that, that can help create an interesting and intriguing life, complete with healthy risks and adventures, also makes us perfect targets for psychopaths.
I wonder how many of Vaknins female friends, who are past victims of N/S's, would find their dear friend flying to meet them if they were suddenly stricken with a grave illness, would attend their daughters wedding, would send a shower gift on the birth of their child, or show up with workgloves on moving day? The reason I ask is, those are the beautiful little treasures of friendship in an ordinary mundane life of a human being. Those are the actions of a friend, someone who is willing to be inconvenienced in order to be supportive and helpful. I suspect from what I know from my own personal communications with Vaknin, that he isnt capable of realizing those are valuable gifts of friendship to give. Or maybe I'm wrong and he does those things? I suspect he listens, and he speaks on the phone or through email, but then psychopaths like doing those things because theres something in it for them? attention.
My dealings with him have run the gamut from him being flirtatious, challenging, attacking, annihilating and then "sad" to see me go. But just like the tone of his book, it was also clear I was communicating with a disordered mind. I am quite certain he has his moments of being nice, just as we all have our moments of being egotistical. But I think a self-confessed disordered person being a real friend is sort of...hmmm...antithetical.
How can one GIVE friendship, real friendship, if one has no empathy or conscience?
I just want you to please hold in your awareness (because I fear anyone who has any love or affection for a psychopath is being used or will be damaged in the end), that it just might be as dysfunctional to believe a narcissist/psychopath feels the love of real friendship, as it is to believe one felt real love for you in your past romantic or childhood relationship with one. When my exN/S said he loved me, I am certain he felt something sweet, but like a 7 yr old feels something sweet for his mother; the desire to have her in his company, to get comfort and soothing from her, to get all the things from her that make him feel good. The 7 yr old does not wonder how best he can meet his mothers needs, because their brains arent wired for the mature give and take required when two adults love one another. That requires empathy. And Vaknin is the first to admit he has none.
Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?
Odd that Windsong is continuing to post after she clearly states that this forum is not the place she wants to be. Also odd is that she chose to come into another's home just to say how much she doesn't like the home. But of course we frequently see these same traits from the most ardent supporters of psychopaths on the forum and in the political world. They are the 12% Lobazewski discussed in Political Ponerology who cannot think for themselves or even recognize facts. Henry See wrote a good article about this 12% in The Insider Wannabes.
Odd that Windsong is continuing to post after she clearly states that this forum is not the place she wants to be. Also odd is that she chose to come into another's home just to say how much she doesn't like the home. But of course we frequently see these same traits from the most ardent supporters of psychopaths on the forum and in the political world. They are the 12% Lobazewski discussed in Political Ponerology who cannot think for themselves or even recognize facts. Henry See wrote a good article about this 12% in The Insider Wannabes.
ThePhoenixxx
A Disturbance in the Force
Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?
Well, I didnt come onto this forum originally to support any psychopaths, I came to find out which direction to go in order to support myself.
But I have to admit I too found myself answering more and more posts despite feeling I got what I needed and could move on.
I submit thats because there is a tendency on this forum to analyze and make mistaken assumptions, and then the cycle of trying to correct those assumptions is analyzed as something more and on the cycle goes.
Its not always a sign of a personality disorder or evil.
I think you'll find victims of psychopaths have found themselves in positions of having to defend and protect themselves from being twisted up, eroded or convinced theyre in the wrong when in fact, in their gut and their souls they know they arent. That continues outside of the pathological relationship and into other areas of communication because theyre now carrying those scars with them, WE carry those scars with US, and theyre slow to heal. I suspect its part and parcel of the long lasting damage, or perhaps the PTSD of having to protect ourselves over such a long time from constant putdowns, manipulations and mindgames.
(something to keep in mind)
Well, I didnt come onto this forum originally to support any psychopaths, I came to find out which direction to go in order to support myself.
But I have to admit I too found myself answering more and more posts despite feeling I got what I needed and could move on.
I submit thats because there is a tendency on this forum to analyze and make mistaken assumptions, and then the cycle of trying to correct those assumptions is analyzed as something more and on the cycle goes.
Its not always a sign of a personality disorder or evil.
I think you'll find victims of psychopaths have found themselves in positions of having to defend and protect themselves from being twisted up, eroded or convinced theyre in the wrong when in fact, in their gut and their souls they know they arent. That continues outside of the pathological relationship and into other areas of communication because theyre now carrying those scars with them, WE carry those scars with US, and theyre slow to heal. I suspect its part and parcel of the long lasting damage, or perhaps the PTSD of having to protect ourselves over such a long time from constant putdowns, manipulations and mindgames.
(something to keep in mind)