alionsheart
A Disturbance in the Force
Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?
yes, I did read a large bit of his material after a relationship with my narcissistic ex.
But after a while, I thought something was up. There is a forum (you can probably guess which one, the link has been posted in this thread as well) that I go to where he is one of the head masters there, and there is a special forum where victims can ask him questions -- but only he and the "victims" can post there, no one else.
I found it strange that he usually replies to their sometimes emotionally charged posts with more links to his pages, usually very impersonal, the same thing copied and pasted thing over and over. With many links to his articles.
As for me, I take what he says with a grain of salt. His site seems like the NPD bible, but I usually try to develop my own ideas too .. most of his posts seem to want to peddle his book and his articles, anyway.
Oh, and I did bother to post in the 'ask dr. sam vaknin' forum in that board to ask if he really was a narcissist, or just some guy who likes to sell books .. just to see what he would say.
He said he was, and that he was diagnosed with other personality disorders as well. Of course, after that, were tons of links to his site, that many people there have probably already read.
He doesn't give personal responses, usually. And if he does, it's very short.
But, i've read other articles, other pages too, from the victim's point of view. Such as that blog post, written by Anna Valerious. I've read her site "what makes narcissists tick", as well. She's a very good writer.
And of course, I have my own first hand experince -- nothing could be more accurate than that.
Ah yes. Well, i'm well aware we all have narcissism in us and it's actually crucial for our ego to function -- a healthy amount, that is. But too much of anything is a bad thing, of course.
I've often wondered why I loved him so much. Firstly, that was the image he presented to me. Secondly, I had been talking to him for a very long time (online, which isn't always the best place and a breeding ground for these people), since 2001 -- and so, I trusted him. So when I met him in 07, I of course believed him. It lasted all of two months in person after I got home to the states (he lived up north) and he had admitted to me, among his normal traits of pathological lying, that someone he had also met online before he met me in person, who he had told me was "just a friend" was actually someone he was having an "Affair" (if you could call it that) and met her in a hotel, but due to my experiences with him and his known emotional and intmacy issues, it's unlikely they had intercourse and just did other things. Of course --- after meeting this woman he also decided to meet me also while keeping it from me, and waiting until I got back home, so he could have a go at his new girlfriend that he met on another online forum (he had a thing for really young asian girls.)
That, and he told me in all seriousness that he, since the age of 3, always thought he had the memories of hitler. Don't ask me how, I can't make sense of it no matter how much I try, and it's been over a year. Alot of work I had to do to get to this point.
Also, I realized that first hand as well -- you can't possibly love the narcissist because there is nothing there to love. Like the narcissist only loves his false reflection, so do you. And we all have "False selves", just not nessasarily malignant ones. We have a face we show to the outer world, and the person we are when we are alone or with close family or friends. But, our "false self" isn't really invested in as much as the narcisisst's is. They seek to make it real, when it isn't.
I thought of the reflection as the narcissist imposing his grandiose self onto yours. By way of his grandiose ego, your ego also becomes tainted with a bit of his maligancy. You may adopt to his (or her) version of things, you may start to see things the way he or see does -- but it's temporary, or it can be if you get away from them. Very long lasting though -- because they are such ruthless manipulators and emotional abusers -- yourself becomes entwined with theirs. You then need to complete the messy and painful task of seperating your very REAL self from their very FAKE self. Not very easy at all, especially when you are convinced that you "love" the narcissist.
All I know is -- when I yelled back at him, when I showed him I had a backbone -- when I said "no, you cannot treat me that way" -- he didn't like it very much at all. It was almost as if he were "punishing" me for standing up for my basic human rights as a human being. I was not allowed to be angry, I was called "whiny" for my very real devastation at being betrayed -- I was put down if I used any "big" (or so he would call them) words, I was made to feel small and unintelligent in his presence, I was made to feel like an annoyance, and someone he just wanted to brush off and be done with already. And what did I do to deserve that, of course -- well, I loved him and I trusted him. He of course, abused and took for granted me and everything I gave to him, my loyalty, dedication, care, help, basically everything. He kept me in a perpetual loop of fear and paranoia, and i've never felt anything like that before. They are very covert abusers.
Well, it's been over a year. I've learned alot -- just got to learn to steer clear of sam vaknin's stuff.
yes, I did read a large bit of his material after a relationship with my narcissistic ex.
But after a while, I thought something was up. There is a forum (you can probably guess which one, the link has been posted in this thread as well) that I go to where he is one of the head masters there, and there is a special forum where victims can ask him questions -- but only he and the "victims" can post there, no one else.
I found it strange that he usually replies to their sometimes emotionally charged posts with more links to his pages, usually very impersonal, the same thing copied and pasted thing over and over. With many links to his articles.
As for me, I take what he says with a grain of salt. His site seems like the NPD bible, but I usually try to develop my own ideas too .. most of his posts seem to want to peddle his book and his articles, anyway.
Oh, and I did bother to post in the 'ask dr. sam vaknin' forum in that board to ask if he really was a narcissist, or just some guy who likes to sell books .. just to see what he would say.
He said he was, and that he was diagnosed with other personality disorders as well. Of course, after that, were tons of links to his site, that many people there have probably already read.
He doesn't give personal responses, usually. And if he does, it's very short.
But, i've read other articles, other pages too, from the victim's point of view. Such as that blog post, written by Anna Valerious. I've read her site "what makes narcissists tick", as well. She's a very good writer.
And of course, I have my own first hand experince -- nothing could be more accurate than that.
Ah yes. Well, i'm well aware we all have narcissism in us and it's actually crucial for our ego to function -- a healthy amount, that is. But too much of anything is a bad thing, of course.
I've often wondered why I loved him so much. Firstly, that was the image he presented to me. Secondly, I had been talking to him for a very long time (online, which isn't always the best place and a breeding ground for these people), since 2001 -- and so, I trusted him. So when I met him in 07, I of course believed him. It lasted all of two months in person after I got home to the states (he lived up north) and he had admitted to me, among his normal traits of pathological lying, that someone he had also met online before he met me in person, who he had told me was "just a friend" was actually someone he was having an "Affair" (if you could call it that) and met her in a hotel, but due to my experiences with him and his known emotional and intmacy issues, it's unlikely they had intercourse and just did other things. Of course --- after meeting this woman he also decided to meet me also while keeping it from me, and waiting until I got back home, so he could have a go at his new girlfriend that he met on another online forum (he had a thing for really young asian girls.)
That, and he told me in all seriousness that he, since the age of 3, always thought he had the memories of hitler. Don't ask me how, I can't make sense of it no matter how much I try, and it's been over a year. Alot of work I had to do to get to this point.
Also, I realized that first hand as well -- you can't possibly love the narcissist because there is nothing there to love. Like the narcissist only loves his false reflection, so do you. And we all have "False selves", just not nessasarily malignant ones. We have a face we show to the outer world, and the person we are when we are alone or with close family or friends. But, our "false self" isn't really invested in as much as the narcisisst's is. They seek to make it real, when it isn't.
I thought of the reflection as the narcissist imposing his grandiose self onto yours. By way of his grandiose ego, your ego also becomes tainted with a bit of his maligancy. You may adopt to his (or her) version of things, you may start to see things the way he or see does -- but it's temporary, or it can be if you get away from them. Very long lasting though -- because they are such ruthless manipulators and emotional abusers -- yourself becomes entwined with theirs. You then need to complete the messy and painful task of seperating your very REAL self from their very FAKE self. Not very easy at all, especially when you are convinced that you "love" the narcissist.
All I know is -- when I yelled back at him, when I showed him I had a backbone -- when I said "no, you cannot treat me that way" -- he didn't like it very much at all. It was almost as if he were "punishing" me for standing up for my basic human rights as a human being. I was not allowed to be angry, I was called "whiny" for my very real devastation at being betrayed -- I was put down if I used any "big" (or so he would call them) words, I was made to feel small and unintelligent in his presence, I was made to feel like an annoyance, and someone he just wanted to brush off and be done with already. And what did I do to deserve that, of course -- well, I loved him and I trusted him. He of course, abused and took for granted me and everything I gave to him, my loyalty, dedication, care, help, basically everything. He kept me in a perpetual loop of fear and paranoia, and i've never felt anything like that before. They are very covert abusers.
Well, it's been over a year. I've learned alot -- just got to learn to steer clear of sam vaknin's stuff.
