Seeking Advice on How to Reach Spiritual/Moral Bankruptcy in Order to Progress

[Beau]

Whereas, in terms of moral bankruptcy, if I'm being completely honest with myself, that is the part that I don't think I've reached yet. I find myself often desiring things of this world. And although I am aware for the most part when those things come up that I am just falling back into the trap, I still long for those things often, and often give in. I wish it weren't so, I'd like to come to the point where I could see that there is nothing for me in any of those worldly things and the desire would stop, but the truth is that I have not reached that point fully in all aspects, only maybe a few.

The thing is, as long you are being honest about what you want, it's OK! If you want to start a family, that's OK. If you want to experience other 3D things, then you should go out and do that, otherwise you'll wonder and later on you might actually resent giving up the "regular world" for this path. It's best to get that stuff out of your system instead of attempting to be a monk while feeling pulled in a different direction. That doesn't work well, we have dealt with that here before. No reason to force something on yourself so that you can feel like you're being "good" and in turn look good to others. Impression management can often lead people to do things that they don't actually want to do and that really isn't a good way of navigating this kind of Work. I would just say not to worry about being judged, everyone is on a different step on the path. The young'uns are always going to have this dilemma when coming to the Work. At least you are aware of what you're not ready for.

 

[Shelby]

My response would be that, as long as you’re able to ‘see’ and accept that ugliness IS part of this world, and this world isn’t all just Sunshine and Rainbows, you’re doing fine. As others have said, you can’t force it. I think there WOULD be a problem if you were shoving the ugly under the rug and pretending it didn’t exist. Which would be placing a judgement on Creation by not accepting the other (negative) half of it.

Good point. I think that I used to be exactly that, I only saw the sunshine and rainbows, and for the most part that came from a deeply sincere and innocent part of myself, because I truly didn't grasp the ugliness and negative parts of the world. In my eyes, everything was truly beautiful and blissful and I loved it all.

Now, only from the knowledge I've gained and from looking around me with clearer eyes and paying attention, I do see the negativity surrounding me. It's not all beautiful and blissful. And I am not trying to block it out or pretend its not there anymore, I do SEE it and I'm not turning a blind eye. I think that maybe part of the reason why I haven't reached that bankruptcy is that I've never truly FELT it on a personal level, so it somewhat seems like a distant dream, something that's OUT THERE, and doesn't affect me.

And.... now that I'm actually saying this, it makes me realize that this just probably mostly means that I don't 'know myself' fully and have not yet seen myself clearly and objectively, or else I would not feel like it's all OUT THERE and not affecting me. If I say myself clearly, I would be able to feel it's full effect on me at a personal level. Your opinion?

For the majority of people, this realization could create a ‘bankruptcy’ because they may have spent a lifetime following these pathways to only learn it isn't true. Imagine how devastated your mom would be to learn her reliance on Christianity and Religion and everything she preaches and tries to put on you and your siblings has been for nothing and has had the opposite effect of what she intends? That she's been 'Duped by the Devil'?

So so true. She would be completely devastated to the core of her being if she had the capacity or desire to see anything outside of the little box of Christianity shes locked herself in and see objectively. Maybe that is part of the reason I never felt a complete bankruptcy in the spiritual aspect, because growing up I never was able to take on Christianity at a soul-deep level like my family, it never felt real to me... so now recently, when learning the objective reality of this world, I didn't have to let go of any foundational belief I had had for my entire life (like a lot of people do).... because I didn't have one. There wasn't any belief I was clinging on to. I didn't know WHAT I believed.

With this I would have to ask, do you feel you’ve reached a position where you no longer feel 3rd density can offer you what you’re seeking? Are there still aspects/experiences about 3rd density you still crave or want?

I replied honestly to this question in the response above to Beau. It's a question I've needed to really face head-on for a while now without skirting around the issue, I realize that and I know you do too.

Thank you for your responseeeeeee :)

 

[Shelby]

The work isn't just about moral or spiritual bankruptcies, which may be necessary if you've 'crystallised on the wrong foundation'. It's also about the struggle between 'yes' and 'no' that creates a transformative 'heat'. Bankruptcies may or may not occur as a result of that struggle .

Such a great perspective, one that I had not really thought of!! Thank you for this!

Have you heard this song?

Listening to the song now :)

 

[Shelby]

Also, hope does not prevent despair, and despair doesn't prevent hope. We are emotionally rich enough to experience both with no contradiction. It's like being in despair for the illness of a child, and being hopeful (while doing everything possible) for it to be better. Knowledge provides despair and hope, each fueling the other in a loop that leads to transformation and action.

Thank you so much for this perspective This pretty much sums up a lot of what I've learned from everyone through this thread so far!

 

[Shelby]

The thing is, as long you are being honest about what you want, it's OK! If you want to start a family, that's OK. If you want to experience other 3D things, then you should go out and do that, otherwise you'll wonder and later on you might actually resent giving up the "regular world" for this path. It's best to get that stuff out of your system instead of attempting to be a monk while feeling pulled in a different direction. That doesn't work well, we have dealt with that here before. No reason to force something on yourself so that you can feel like you're being "good" and in turn look good to others. Impression management can often lead people to do things that they don't actually want to do and that really isn't a good way of navigating this kind of Work. I would just say not to worry about being judged, everyone is on a different step on the path. The young'uns are always going to have this dilemma when coming to the Work. At least you are aware of what you're not ready for.

So true. Thank you for taking the time to read and respond, and for the multiple things you've given me to be thinking about!!

 

[Michael B-C]

Hi Shelby

Firstly thank you for your post. It took some courage and care to express where you are with such clarity and honesty, and much of what you shared was very familiar to me - as I'm sure it is to others here. So firstly know you are not alone.

Some great thoughts shared already by others. All I would add is...

This (life) is a process... what you have shared on this thread is merely where you are now... the intensity of the knowing that has started to come up for you with such clarity is already changing and moving into another state of being which includes it and something else... days, weeks, even months may yet come when such clarity and concern blurs once more with other circumstances, thoughts, needs overriding this incipient clarity... and then you will maybe prick yourself and say 'remember...!' Obviously on the path of the work we must fight that pressure, that everyday force that wants to push us back under and so perpetually strive to remember ourselves (and by god it can come up with in so many ways - multiple programs that will take a grip of us and strive to push us back under and as Laura said, there's one for everyone one of us!) ... so we fail and we win and we fail again ('Fail. Fail again. Fail better.' said the Irish writer Beckett). And that's precisely what we are here for. To learn, and relearn until we need to learn nothing more. Then we can move on... process, process, process...

So you are likely precisely where you need to be right now... no more...

As for hope. I think you should have no doubt in that. The darker things are, the deeper you look, never forget the hope. As long as its not based in wishful thinking or some form of sedating disassociation, then its what will keep you going forward - in even baby steps - to your true goal. Having experienced something of a similar intensely catholic upbringing in which damnation and redemption were held out as ever possible, never reconciled threats and promises all emanating from the same source (twisted or what!) I can understand that residue of a programme that still claws at you. But strangely maybe it helped plant that seed of hope and now you are looking at it with fresh eyes, so perhaps you can be grateful for the necessary lesson of your childhood. You have shown your potential to break free; now keep the best of what it offered you.

As others have said, and as you yourself suggested you are now grasping, there is no contradiction between the darkness and the light - they are not opposites. They are a holistic whole. The darkness is merely the shadow cast by the will and aide of the light - the fact that it does not know this and thinks it has a power all of its own, in the big scheme of things, is not worth getting hung up on. Our problem is we live in the Shadowlands. That why it appears to intensely real and all pervasive. But it is nothing of itself. A passing phase (though it feels like hell down here!) And time in nature will give you comfort of that (what a miracle is a leaf!). So welcome the chance that 'hope' gives you of potentially seeing now with both eyes.

Something to share that may or not be of use. One of the lost elements of an ancient wisdom tradition was the learned capacity to see simultaneously with an eye of the sun and an eye of the moon (hence for so long they were partnered in esoteric literature). The sun can be overwhelmingly blinding and so lead us into error being not equipped as we are in 3rd density to cope with the full meaning of its intensity, so we need the moon eye to see through to a manageable aspect of its searing blaze. For the moon has two sides; one reflected sunlight the other utter darkness. This helps create a 3 way view. Something so intensely bright and too much for us (and hence blinding) which we can grasp is the source of all but which is beyond our comprehension, needs to be mediated by means of a reflection (all be it an illusion) which also helps to further reveal the hidden depth of darkness beyond. If you can hold the idea that love, aka truth is a blinding, searing force that can burn us but thanks to the rules of Maya we can be given and learn a way that mediates and reveals the full complexity and nuanced nature of our reality so to understand it is both an absolute and a reflection and beyond that a nothingness filled with envious entropy... yet all are nothing but aspects of the sun... the truth... the light... the way...

I don't know if any of that resonates. Its something that helps me (think Apollo/Artemis/Hecate)...

Thank you again for sharing so eloquently. It helped me today to remember.

 

[kenlee]

I’m not exactly sure how to move past this part of who I am in order to reach that state of bankruptcy, that point of no return that must be reached, as Laura says. And when I think about it, I also don’t entirely understand why the hope that I feel and see is “wrong” (or at least keeps me from progressing)… because it doesn’t seem like it’s wrong. It IS true that there is so much darkness and evil and I SEE that, but it is ALSO true that without darkness there could be no light! Isn’t that true?? It IS true that we are all on our own cycle of learning. So why is it necessary to feel hopeless and become spiritually bankrupt in order to be able to graduate? I just don’t get it, and I also don’t know how to NOT see hope.

I really wouldn't be concerned about reaching a "state of bankruptcy." I think it comes, not really in our time, but rather, in 'God's time' so to speak and I think it can't be rushed since it'll come as a natural progression as a result of our efforts to see, in small incremental steps, the universe more like it sees itself.

 

[NewEngland Seeker]

Something I’ve realized along the way is that in order to progress along this path towards “awakening”, at some point I have to reach that point of complete spiritual and moral bankruptcy… the point of realizing everything I’ve ever known and believed in is all a lie, really FEELING into the fact that all I’ve been doing this entire time is feeding the predator and doing exactly as it wants, and realizing all of the lies I’ve told myself about who I am, completely stripping away the mask and pretty much everything I ever believed was true about myself.

Hi Shelby, I appreciate your views on how to awaken and it has got me thinking of how I try to do the same.

Doing the soul work is hard enough and I think it is better to pursue a steady path of positive change. The goal of the work is to change frequency to boring vibration to the hyper dimensional entities.

I have used endurance exercises to accelerate the change. I have done 8-hour bike rides, 20-mile walks and hiked mountains to stimulate the positive stress changes of the body. This does increase the vitality of the body if I also do the appropriate recovery to avoid any exhaustion. Recovery time is important since I have noticed that marathon runners that do not spend 2-3 days to recover will end up sick within 7-10 days.

Afterward, the body is stronger and more vibrant for about 2-4 weeks. During this time, I use this energy to increase my spiritual studying, helping other, cleaning my personal environment, cleansing the body, or whatever else that will help my soul awareness or the needs of others.


The soul work boils down to:
clean it
repair it
replace it
put it away
through it away
give it away
With the upmost love and non attachment.

 

[stellar]

I thought for a long time after being raised the way I was, that any sort of religion and/or spiritual paths were all a big joke and I wanted nothing to do with any sort of spirituality of any kind.... until I started learning about all of this and it began to click and make sense.

Whereas, in terms of moral bankruptcy, if I'm being completely honest with myself, that is the part that I don't think I've reached yet. I find myself often desiring things of this world. And although I am aware for the most part when those things come up that I am just falling back into the trap, I still long for those things often, and often give in. I wish it weren't so, I'd like to come to the point where I could see that there is nothing for me in any of those worldly things and the desire would stop, but the truth is that I have not reached that point fully in all aspects, only maybe a few.

Thank you for your response and perspective Beau!

Keeping on with reading, learning and asking questions is the way I would advise. We are talking decades of work, research, experience and knowledge. I don't think there is a quick guide for what you seek.

You cannot wish your way into a new BEing; you have to BEcome it. It will likely take many more lies to yourself and others before you see reality as it is and yourself as others see you and THAT will be painful. You will probably find that you are not who you think you are at all and that can also drive one into denial and walking away in disdain. See how you go.

 

[Voyageur]

Now, only from the knowledge I've gained and from looking around me with clearer eyes and paying attention, I do see the negativity surrounding me. It's not all beautiful and blissful. And I am not trying to block it out or pretend its not there anymore, I do SEE it and I'm not turning a blind eye. I think that maybe part of the reason why I haven't reached that bankruptcy is that I've never truly FELT it on a personal level, so it somewhat seems like a distant dream, something that's OUT THERE, and doesn't affect me.

As a generality, osit, people of the West (when it comes to pondering things that do not directly come to bear upon them) can have a more difficult time putting themselves in situations such as what can be seen in history and what can be seen immediately looking left, right and straight ahead. There has been this constructed shelter of State, education (and dare say religion) in the West that comes with many filters to help gloss over things, and of course, as you say, it is 'out there' or over there, and the affects can be dampened down.

As was discussed, it may come down to ones individual awareness that will happen or not - there may be a time and place that the horror of the situation takes on force, something so striking (or learned) that it can no longer be ignored - the 'out there' or over there becomes a shrinking reality that is felt with greater effect as it can no longer be shut out or wished away.

In this realm It happens when and if it happens - there is no race to become overwhelmed, and as your awareness grows of it, so, too, is the awareness of the balance that should be sought. Balance of home life, family, work and relationships and ones overall experiences of a positive nature (I mean there is some awesome things to see), while seeing what is negative; that which is done unto others or even oneself (if it can be seen of self), with greater understanding. Now, how is that understood, and who really wants to understand it, to have understanding of the horror of the situation? Personally, I don't think that that understanding (still a work in progress) would have happened without the greater work done here, especially from people who could unravel things in a psychological sense as seen in PP et cetera and the people who shed light on it. No, without that it would be much harder or near impossible, with dissociation constantly sought.

I would not worry too much, Shelby, yet you asked the question and that has meaning for you.

Stellar sums up well, osit:

Keeping on with reading, learning and asking questions is the way I would advise. We are talking decades of work, research, experience and knowledge. I don't think there is a quick guide for what you seek.

 

[Chu]

For what it's worth, Shelby, when I first found this group 15 years ago, I felt very much like you. I'm a Sagittarius, optimistic and always seeing the "silver lining". So, I guess I never lost "hope". In a sense, I wished to have less of that, so that I would learn faster in some cases. But I couldn't. Later on, I did have bankrupcies, and it was hope in a sense that made me stronger. If I had had no hope when seeing the horror in myself, others and the world, then there would have been no point in continuing. When you hit bottom, for a fraction of a second you can also see that that may be a way to finally have a glimpse of what is real, and then you work with that, because you have nothing to lose. But it's not something you can force, in my experience.

Whereas, in terms of moral bankruptcy, if I'm being completely honest with myself, that is the part that I don't think I've reached yet. I find myself often desiring things of this world. And although I am aware for the most part when those things come up that I am just falling back into the trap, I still long for those things often, and often give in. I wish it weren't so, I'd like to come to the point where I could see that there is nothing for me in any of those worldly things and the desire would stop, but the truth is that I have not reached that point fully in all aspects, only maybe a few.

I think that it we are in this reality, it is because we came to learn lessons related to it. And part of it is experiencing physicality, the material. It is human (our condition) to look at a chocolate cake and to want a piece, for example. You don't necessarily stop "wanting" any of those things. But the more you learn about reality (visible and invisible), the more you realize you have choices to make. Maybe one day you "cave in" and have that piece of cake. Others, you think about something that means more to you, and you do that instead, the "temptation" thus losing strength. Some things become permanent, and even the best chocolate cake in the world wouldn't tempt you. With others, we struggle longer. So, you can think of that chocolate cake as anything in life that you still "want", and always keep in mind that you have a choice.

The choice in and of itself isn't going to be "jugded" by Jesus or whoever. it is just representative of where you are at, and of what you want to align yourself with deep inside. You will do what you will do, and choose the path you want to choose. They key, IMO, is to do it with as much knowledge and as much concern for others as you can possibly have. With truth in mind, constantly remembering that there are many things you still don't know. Finding out what you truly came here to do is not something that you can figure out quickly, and we are all in the same boat, more or less. So, I think you are doing just fine. Worrying too much may prevent you from assimilating knowledge in whatever way is best for you. Applying what you learn, observing more and more, can be more important than having the theory but not the life experience to see if it matches.

I hope it's clear! I may be projecting here, but I think that part of the problem is when in the beginning we constantly compare ourselves to others, and always think that we are behind and have to catch up quickly. In stressing over it, we may skip some important steps. Having others as an example is really useful, but we also have to learn (or network an ask) to compare ourselves today to ourselves yesterday. If there are changes in the positive direction, it's not bad. We can always strive to do better, but we need to accept that where we are at, is also where we need to be to learn some lessons. Or so I think.

 

[Shelby]

I have used endurance exercises to accelerate the change. I have done 8-hour bike rides, 20-mile walks and hiked mountains to stimulate the positive stress changes of the body. This does increase the vitality of the body if I also do the appropriate recovery to avoid any exhaustion. Recovery time is important since I have noticed that marathon runners that do not spend 2-3 days to recover will end up sick within 7-10 days.

Afterward, the body is stronger and more vibrant for about 2-4 weeks. During this time, I use this energy to increase my spiritual studying, helping other, cleaning my personal environment, cleansing the body, or whatever else that will help my soul awareness or the needs of others

I do love challenging my endurance in that way!! And I feel like I know what you mean in feeling that vibrancy for a few weeks after. I never really put much thought into it though or even really considered what was happening. I'm going to be climbing another mountain with my mom soon I believe, so I will really pay attention to this and be sure to use that energy in a positive way towards learning and growing!! Thank you for opening my eyes to this!!

I think that it we are in this reality, it is because we came to learn lessons related to it. And part of it is experiencing physicality, the material. It is human (our condition) to look at a chocolate cake and to want a piece, for example. You don't necessarily stop "wanting" any of those things. But the more you learn about reality (visible and invisible), the more you realize you have choices to make.

We can always strive to do better, but we need to accept that where we are at, is also where we need to be to learn some lessons.

Thank you so much Chu for this perspective!!! This truly helped a lot in realizing, even more, that I am right where I need to be, and that I should be focusing on learning my lessons as they come instead of trying to rush to the next step out of a 'scarcity' mindset and feeling that I am 'behind'. So thank you for the reassurance!!

 

[latulipenoire]

The thing is, as long you are being honest about what you want, it's OK! If you want to start a family, that's OK. If you want to experience other 3D things, then you should go out and do that, otherwise you'll wonder and later on you might actually resent giving up the "regular world" for this path. It's best to get that stuff out of your system instead of attempting to be a monk while feeling pulled in a different direction. That doesn't work well, we have dealt with that here before. No reason to force something on yourself so that you can feel like you're being "good" and in turn look good to others. Impression management can often lead people to do things that they don't actually want to do and that really isn't a good way of navigating this kind of Work. I would just say not to worry about being judged, everyone is on a different step on the path. The young'uns are always going to have this dilemma when coming to the Work. At least you are aware of what you're not ready for.

I really wouldn't be concerned about reaching a "state of bankruptcy." I think it comes, not really in our time, but rather, in 'God's time' so to speak and I think it can't be rushed since it'll come as a natural progression as a result of our efforts to see, in small incremental steps, the universe more like it sees itself.

You cannot wish your way into a new BEing; you have to BEcome it. It will likely take many more lies to yourself and others before you see reality as it is and yourself as others see you and THAT will be painful. You will probably find that you are not who you think you are at all and that can also drive one into denial and walking away in disdain. See how you go.

In this realm It happens when and if it happens - there is no race to become overwhelmed, and as your awareness grows of it, so, too, is the awareness of the balance that should be sought. Balance of home life, family, work and relationships and ones overall experiences of a positive nature (I mean there is some awesome things to see), while seeing what is negative; that which is done unto others or even oneself (if it can be seen of self), with greater understanding. Now, how is that understood, and who really wants to understand it, to have understanding of the horror of the situation? Personally, I don't think that that understanding (still a work in progress) would have happened without the greater work done here, especially from people who could unravel things in a psychological sense as seen in PP et cetera and the people who shed light on it. No, without that it would be much harder or near impossible, with dissociation constantly sought.

For what it's worth, Shelby, when I first found this group 15 years ago, I felt very much like you. I'm a Sagittarius, optimistic and always seeing the "silver lining". So, I guess I never lost "hope". In a sense, I wished to have less of that, so that I would learn faster in some cases. But I couldn't. Later on, I did have bankrupcies, and it was hope in a sense that made me stronger. If I had had no hope when seeing the horror in myself, others and the world, then there would have been no point in continuing. When you hit bottom, for a fraction of a second you can also see that that may be a way to finally have a glimpse of what is real, and then you work with that, because you have nothing to lose. But it's not something you can force, in my experience.

First of all thank you Shelby for sharing your experiences with us and opening up this discussion. All these perspectives help me once more to see and value the networking and learning that is freely and naturally shared here (if we are truly asking and open) and to realize we are not alone in our choices and paths, in our effort to see ourselves and the world ever more objectively while striving also to be of service to others in the best way we can.

Your experiences are similar in a way to my own. I was raised in the Christian faith, and for a long time I was forced to go to church and felt I was being judged every second of my life. After a while my parents gradually stopped going to church (but they consider themselves catholics still) and I could pursue other groups and interests more freely, but always with a sense of guilt if I though I was reading, seeing or doing something new or unexpected. When I stumbled by accident upon The Signs of the Times and later into the C's material it took weeks to finally realize that what was offered then (as now) was a path so totally different and challenging as to be considered truly alien. Or so I thought. I realize now that maybe I rushed at things then, trying desperately to feel and to understand all the experiences and the perspectives that took so many years, efforts and pain for Laura and the other authors and editors to attain.

Now, having a family and a daughter, trying to make ends meet and still trying to not eat that chocolate cake Chu wrote about just everytime I pass in front of it, I think I see, in a way, what the others are trying to convey, having experienced some of these frustrations all these years. We are here to learn and to help others to learn, if this is ours and theirs choice. And rushing things won't help us along the way, even if we always feel we are lagging behind or not smart enough. Just keep sharing and asking and answering when you can, honestly and with integrity, just like you are doing in this thread. It's no small feat, or so I think.

 

[Lys]

Shelby, I would like to thank you for opening this thread.
I came across your post by chance and it resonates deeply within me.
I was in the same state when had the chance to be introduced with the forum.
I've always been a person people around me would call "the optimistic".
For my part, I think that I've always desperately tried to counterbalance my father's pessimism. And it helped me a lot in my journey.

Of course, I knew that a lot of things were wrong in our world, that people could be evil. But still, I was very hopeful and I still am. There is something to do in order to evolve. It is not easy but I kept with the idea that it doesn't have to feel hopeless. Some things are obviously hopeless, I can see it when I watch the news and people who govern the world!
But individually, I Know that we can help at least a little bit, and this forum gathers so many aware people that seeing this, I can't be but sure that there is hope.

It also seems to me that you don't have to worry over this any longer since you seem to have made quite some progress in understanding already. It might be a good idea to slowly but surely ask yourself what you could do with those positive steps in order to be better able to help others.

I second that, and it is inspiring.

Whereas, in terms of moral bankruptcy, if I'm being completely honest with myself, that is the part that I don't think I've reached yet. I find myself often desiring things of this world. And although I am aware for the most part when those things come up that I am just falling back into the trap, I still long for those things often, and often give in. I wish it weren't so, I'd like to come to the point where I could see that there is nothing for me in any of those worldly things and the desire would stop, but the truth is that I have not reached that point fully in all aspects, only maybe a few.

I think that you are not alone with that, the way we are made as 3D beings seems to be a real challenge on that topic among others.
That is a good thing that you are aware of it.

I think that it we are in this reality, it is because we came to learn lessons related to it. And part of it is experiencing physicality, the material. It is human (our condition) to look at a chocolate cake and to want a piece, for example. You don't necessarily stop "wanting" any of those things. But the more you learn about reality (visible and invisible), the more you realize you have choices to make. Maybe one day you "cave in" and have that piece of cake. Others, you think about something that means more to you, and you do that instead, the "temptation" thus losing strength. Some things become permanent, and even the best chocolate cake in the world wouldn't tempt you. With others, we struggle longer. So, you can think of that chocolate cake as anything in life that you still "want", and always keep in mind that you have a choice.

And I would like to thank you Chufor putting it this way. It clarifies this topic in an understandable way.
And thank you to all the members' answers and to you Shelby for putting your question out as it helps me a lot to remind me every day that it is a long way and there is no one way to achieve what you're seeking for.

 

[3DStudent]

Thanks for the thread, Shelby. It has provoked some self reflection in me. I think I learn more from an others's threads sometimes, due to the distance of it not being my own. I particularly was thinking about being honest with myself. Sometimes if I just say clearly in my mind if I want or don't want to do something, the answer is apparent.

there may be a time and place that the horror of the situation takes on force, something so striking (or learned) that it can no longer be ignored - the 'out there' or over there becomes a shrinking reality that is felt with greater effect as it can no longer be shut out or wished away.

This comes to me sometimes when reading an article posted on SM or on SOTT. The thought of something like, "This really happens." I'm thinking of wars and human atrocities.

Maybe one day you "cave in" and have that piece of cake. Others, you think about something that means more to you, and you do that instead, the "temptation" thus losing strength. Some things become permanent, and even the best chocolate cake in the world wouldn't tempt you. With others, we struggle longer.

I like the analogy. It's like shedding "A" Influences. Sometimes they can return too, because, "When you have learned, you have learned." I don't know what happens when none remain, maybe just chop wood and carry water?

The choice in and of itself isn't going to be "jugded" by Jesus or whoever. it is just representative of where you are at, and of what you want to align yourself with deep inside. You will do what you will do, and choose the path you want to choose.

Something I recently did and was disappointed about got me thinking. I thought that for a different outcome, I would have had to have been a different person. The odds were great that I acted in the way I did, I think due to being grumpy from lack of sleep. So you can say, "In order for it to have been different, I'd have to have done this and this and this.", until you reach some sort of perfection where you made no mistakes. So when you realize that that is absurd you come to be more humble and self forgiving about it. And that doesn't mean that you shouldn't start with just one thing that will improve your chances reacting better in a similar situation. It's something that's built over time. Like Jordan Peterson says, you have to build yourself up so that when inevitable tragedy strikes, you can still give it your best.

I wonder if you take this self forgiving into 5D. Because sure you can say, "Oh, I will be so much harder on myself in 5D life review because I will see all the details of an event that I missed." But you might also better understand and see yourself for who and what you were at that point too. And if you think in 3D that you were what you were at that point in time, I'd imagine that in 5D it would only become clearer.