Seeking Advice on How to Reach Spiritual/Moral Bankruptcy in Order to Progress


Padawan Learner
First of all thank you Shelby for sharing your experiences with us and opening up this discussion. All these perspectives help me once more to see and value the networking and learning that is freely and naturally shared here (if we are truly asking and open) and to realize we are not alone in our choices and paths, in our effort to see ourselves and the world ever more objectively while striving also to be of service to others in the best way we can.
Shelby, I would like to thank you for opening this thread.
I came across your post by chance and it resonates deeply within me.
Thanks for the thread, Shelby. It has provoked some self reflection in me. I think I learn more from an others's threads sometimes, due to the distance of it not being my own.
I am so glad that this thread was also helpful for you guys as well! It can be a bit nerve-wracking to post here on the forum for the reason of not wanting to waste peoples time and energy (and in an egocentric kind of way, worrying about what other people will think of you. Silly ego!). So it's really great knowing that it also was helpful for others and not just myself.

Some things are obviously hopeless, I can see it when I watch the news and people who govern the world!
But individually, I Know that we can help at least a little bit, and this forum gathers so many aware people that seeing this, I can't be but sure that there is hope.
I agree! This world is nuts, but there is hope.

This comes to me sometimes when reading an article posted on SM or on SOTT. The thought of something like, "This really happens." I'm thinking of wars and human atrocities.
It's funny because, about a week or so after I posted this thread here on the forum, I was reading from book 7 of The Wave series, and from what I was reading, things kind of started to hit me in a different way than they had been previously. Kind of like what you just said, I started to feel and think, "this really happens", like a light bulb kind of went off in my head. I've kind of started to see things in a different way.

Before (like when I wrote this post), I just 'knew' in my head about all of the control that was placed on us here on earth from 4D, that when we are asleep (like most of the population), we really have no personal choice like we think we do, we are just being 'herded like cattle' and doing exactly as 4D STS wants us to do, and by doing this we are giving them power. We are machines, as Gurdjieff says. I knew this then, but it didn't FEEL real and I couldn't really see it, things just still looked normal to me. But lately, I've started to have little moments where I could actually see the reality of this world on a more personal deep level, instead of just knowing it in my mind. Something will happen or I will hear something on the radio or someone will tell me something, and in that small moment, I understand the part that 4D STS is playing in it, and it is so disturbing and makes my stomach drop and gives me the heeby jeebies. I'm not sure how to explain it exactly, I think you (and others from the forum) probably understand what I am trying to say about how it feels in those moments. It's just that it's actually becoming real, not just something from some books that I read. And from it becoming more real, I think that it's increasing my awareness and making me pay attention more.

But I do not believe that I would have started to have these glimpses if I wouldn't have posted about it here on the forum. From all of the responses from everyone, the biggest thing I learned was that I didn't need to force it. And from not trying to force it and not having any anticipation about when and how it was supposed to be, I think it was able to just play out more naturally. At least, that's what I THINK happened, I could be wrong.

But the point is, I am so grateful for everyone who took the time to reply to this thread!!! Your insight and perspective brought me a lot of understanding and growth that came afterward. So thank you!!


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I think 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey will be very helpful for you.


FOTCM Member
I think 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey will be very helpful for you.
I agree, Shelby. I don't know exactly what it is about this book, but it seems to reinforce everything I have learnt this past year or so from Jordan Peterson videos, and (the mirrors from) this network. Covey writes about developing our changeless core based on principles and with that core we can change and adapt to whatever life throws at us. Although I have finished the book I keep reading it and finding little gems. A few days ago I could actually feel that changeless core in myself at a visceral level, maybe for the first time in my life and it felt solid. It is like a grounding force so to speak. It made me realise that I can change and adapt and this gives me hope. What also helps me is when I compare myself to who I was yesterday, last year, 5 years ago and so on as Chu said. The change I see in myself is truly phenomenal (well, that's how I see it :-D). Another helpful tool is to think of all the things I do in one day or a week and notice all my accomplishments - big and small - linked to my own principles compared to say a few years ago. Even if it's just working in the garden, knowing my neighbours appreciate my efforts, remaining calm when others are verbally abusive, not giving in to that piece of cheese that my kids bought and so on. That's also hopeful! And then with that in the back of my mind I will tackle the next thing I wish to accomplish.


Padawan Learner
I think 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey will be very helpful for you
I agree, Shelby. I don't know exactly what it is about this book, but it seems to reinforce everything I have learnt this past year or so from Jordan Peterson videos, and (the mirrors from) this network
So crazy, I just opened my computer to get on Amazon and download a new book to my Kindle, not knowing what it was going to be. When I opened my computer, these notifications from the Forum popped up and I looked at them first. Guess there’s my answer on what I should read! Lol

I have actually read this book twice before, but that was 3 years ago before I started digging deep into ‘The Work.’ I’m excited to dig back in now with a new perspective, I’m sure I’ll dig up so many more “gems” as you called them Mariama 😊 thank you guys so much! 🙌🏼


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Hi! Through this post, I am asking for a mirror, different perspectives that I may be blind to, and for advice! Thank you so much in advance! I look forward to your responses and widening my perspective and knowledge.

To give some perspective on the point of this post…. I started out on this journey towards knowledge on January 1st, 2019.. it has been a little over 6 months, so I am still pretty brand new to all of this! I have read the first 5 books of the Wave Series in that amount of time, plus I am lucky enough to have my best friend (who is the one who planted the seed of curiosity in me about 4 years ago) who is always there to have open conversations with me about all of this stuff. He helps me process and understand the things I am learning and gaining knowledge about.

Something I’ve realized along the way is that in order to progress along this path towards “awakening”, at some point I have to reach that point of complete spiritual and moral bankruptcy… the point of realizing everything I’ve ever known and believed in is all a lie, really FEELING into the fact that all I’ve been doing this entire time is feeding the predator and doing exactly as it wants, and realizing all of the lies I’ve told myself about who I am, completely stripping away the mask and pretty much everything I ever believed was true about myself.

As I was Re-reading chapter 27 of the third book in the Wave Series “Stripped to the Bone” …. this part jumped out to me as I have been trying to grasp the idea of exactly what spiritual bankruptcy was and how to reach it in order to accelerate my progress.. (The excerpt from the book is in bold)

—— A correspondent recently wrote of his despair when he realized that what the Cassiopaeans were saying truly did do a better job of explaining the order of the universe and the meanings behind the experiences and symbols of reality.

“[Tonight] we had a … big annual fireworks presentation that is synchronized with a radio broadcast … the whole thing is massive and hyped up. There’s lots of flashing lights (people even joined in and flashed their house lights), lots of aerial traffic and lots of flashing fireworks. All this backed by a radio broadcast that is impossible to escape since everyone is playing it. As beautiful as it is, I got immensely depressed. All that I know so far, all the knowledge in me just caused me to [be unable to] escape the awful feeling of alienation and despair.

All these people, the kids, the elderly, the mothers and grandparents–they are all screwed–most likely including me. We’re like sheep–we’ll be happy with a bunch of flashing lights and then we’ll go off to earn more money. To run the program. I think the most disturbing moment was when I saw this really gorgeous boy–five maybe seven. He had an incredibly smooth face; he was watching the fireworks and clapping his hand in happiness. Pity that Lizzies might eat him tomorrow. … It’s just too much to handle on your own!

We will be taken over with no problems at all. This is our destiny and only a small percentage of us worldwide will have any clue as to what is happening when the sky turns red. The rest will get burned in the packed-out churches. And what can I do?

Well, not much … it’s like one of those prophetic dreams–they happen and you can’t change anything. Yeah, I tried but my acts led to the dream FULFILLING it. So either way–whether you do something or not, little difference will be made. It makes no difference how many people I help. It makes no difference how many old ladies’ days I make. It makes no difference how many books I read and how many riddles I solve. It is all predestined anyway. I’m tired of giving already!

And so the night goes on. I am alone, with no one to truly see what I mean in a face-to-face conversation. All the people I’ve ever met had something wrong with them (and there’s literally thousands of them). No amount of unconditional love could turn them normal. I’m running out of possibilities here (maybe there’s something wrong with ME then). I’m tired of fighting, asking, probing, observing and not being able to share properly. It’s a doomed existence and I’m here to watch. Whatever happened to love, compassion and understanding? Where on Earth (HELL) has the internal beauty gone? Is all this bickering ever going to end? Enough already! [Name of correspondent withheld for privacy]”

Indeed! And how passionately eloquent. Having been there, more than once, my heart bled for him. And, which is worse: to see what he is seeing as a young man with his whole life before him? Or to see what there is to see in middle age, with five children for whom you have given most of your life; seeing not only that you have been lying to yourself by believing lies and deception, but that you have conveyed those same lies to the people you love the most? What do you do when you realize that most of your life you have given away your free will and, at the same time, have taken away the free will of those dearest to you? More horrible still, what do you do when you realize it has all been done in the name of love?

Is there light at the end of this tunnel? Is there “Balm in Gilead”?

Yes, many times I experienced what my correspondent described so well. And it is only in the past few years that I am able to see it for what it was: a series of initiations. Step by step I was led through one level after another, stripping away all my beliefs and expectations until I had no more illusions in which to hide. And what I was being taught by the universe was the deepest and most essential thing to know–about myself.

When the last illusion was stripped away and I was left with nothing but the skeleton of my being, I reached what Kafka describes as “Von einem gewissen Punkt gibt es keine Rückkehr mehr. Dieser Punkt ist zu erreichen.” There is a point of no return. This point has to be reached.

When you have been stripped of all your illusions, when you have nothing left to believe in, there is no one there at all but yourself. It felt rather like falling endlessly in icy, black, meaningless space. No rhyme nor reason, no truth nor beauty, no anything that I had ever believed in could be seen anywhere. I had peeled away the layers of all the warm, fuzzy, comforting beliefs and found that it was all a lie, a deception, a mask for feeding and manipulation. And by believing the lies, I had participated in the feeding and manipulating to so great a degree that my grief and regret became an ocean in which I was drowning. No wonder we resist giving up our beliefs. Without them, we have to face the truth about ourselves. And, as much as we think we are loving, caring, giving beings, when we see the truth, when we see that most of our ideas about loving and caring and being have been manipulated to deprive us of our free will and to pass the infection on to those we love the most, it is like looking into the pit of Hell.

And when you look into the pit of Hell and realize that you have been feeding that black and bloody, sucking and gaping gore-filled maw waiting to swallow you, and that you have taught those you love to feed it as well, the horror of the realization is enough to drive you mad with grief and despair. And you search for a meaning, some little point of illumination, and there is no light anywhere, not even a single candle to dispel the darkness. ——

I read it over twice, the first time realizing that this is what spiritual/moral bankruptcy must be. And the second time, trying to really feel into it, and feel the despair and heartache, and see the ugliness of it all, with no hope.

So that point of this post is this: While re-reading it, I read it slowly and really WAS actually feeling how terrible it all really is. I just can’t shake the feeling that there IS HOPE! It’s not all darkness and despair. This is how it’s SUPPOSED to be. Without darkness, there could be no light! So the darkness and despair is not without purpose!

But… it’s not that I don’t see the despair in it all also. It IS depressing that we are here, being herded like cattle. Doing the same things everyday, running the program. Feeding the predator. Doing exactly as it wants. And even once we finally start to become even a little bit aware, we start wanting to rebel against it and make our own choices and not feed it anymore, but even then it’s nearly impossible to get out from underneath its grip on us because its all around us and its the foundation to all we’ve ever known. Culture, religion, our values & beliefs, social structure, everything.. we don’t know anything different. It is depressing and chilling. I do see that part, and I do feel the ugliness and darkness of it all.

But the part that I can’t ALSO stop seeing long enough to reach that point of bankruptcy is the HOPE. The hope that it’s all a cycle, we are learning our lessons and going along at exactly the rate we are supposed to be. And even if we don’t learn all of our lessons in this cycle, it’s not the end for us. We get to go to 5th density, and then go back in and continue learning until we’ve learned the lessons we’re supposed to learn in order to graduate. There is no condemnation and judgement from some god about whether or not we learned what “we were supposed to learn” and did everything exactly the way “we were supposed to.”

I think that part of my problem comes from the way I was raised. I was raised in a VERY strict Christian home, went to church every single Sunday, and my parents did their best to live their Christian faith out in every area of their lives. I was taught that if I am not “living for Jesus” and have not “asked for forgiveness of my sins” and “asked Jesus to be my Savior because I am a worthless and terrible sinner and He is my only hope for my eternal soul” … then I will go to Hell for eternity and be in constant pain and torture and burn forever and never be able to quench my thirst and will be in mental, emotional, and physical misery for all of eternity forever, it will never end. I lived with this fear for 25 years of my life. It ate me alive most nights, it was always in the back of my head that “I better shape up or else Im going to burn for eternity.” It was torture.

So it’s hard for all of this to not feel like a relief, like a weight lifted off my shoulders. THIS IS HOPE to me. The fact that if I don’t get everything figured out in this life, my soul will NOT be damned for ALL OF ETERNITY IN HELL AND MISERY. I get another chance. It’s all a cycle, you’re never in one place for eternity. It makes the pursuit of knowledge and awakening something that I WANT to do by my own choice, not something that I am burdened with feeling like I HAVE to do or else I’ll go to hell. I actually want this. That feels like something positive to me, the fact that it’s my own choice, not forced upon me by fear tactics.

And although this 3rd density here is pretty much screwed, and we ARE just cattle being herded, this is not all there is. There is a whole scope of things BEYOND 3rd density and we only see our small little teensy tiny little world.

Maybe part of my “archetype” is that I am positive to a fault. I have a hard time seeing ugliness for what it is. It is very hard for me to feel hopelessness and despair. Very rarely in my life have I ever felt hopelessness or despair, I’ve hardly ever really been depressed! I always get over things so fast, I’m able to let things go and move on from painful things faster than most people.

In the Enneagram Personality test, I am a 9, which is a peacemaker. The core function of a 9 is pretty much doing anything to keep yourself in a state of peacefulness, and always seeing the bright side of things. I know this is just my personality, my mask, my program, the thing I need to get out from under, so I’m sure this has a lot to do with why it is difficult for me to reach that point of bankruptcy. Because of my personality, I shove down painful feelings and push aside unpeaceful thoughts so that I can stay living in my happy and positive little state of mind without being disturbed. It is, i’m sure, what’s currently keeping me from reaching that point of bankruptcy. Because I KNOW and I can see what there is to be hopeless about in this world, but I still always find hope and see the positive side of things, and I don’t know how NOT to.

I’m not exactly sure how to move past this part of who I am in order to reach that state of bankruptcy, that point of no return that must be reached, as Laura says. And when I think about it, I also don’t entirely understand why the hope that I feel and see is “wrong” (or at least keeps me from progressing)… because it doesn’t seem like it’s wrong. It IS true that there is so much darkness and evil and I SEE that, but it is ALSO true that without darkness there could be no light! Isn’t that true?? It IS true that we are all on our own cycle of learning. So why is it necessary to feel hopeless and become spiritually bankrupt in order to be able to graduate? I just don’t get it, and I also don’t know how to NOT see hope.

Again, thank you so much for taking the time to read this and for your responses!
Haven’t you reach what you are talking about in your post this devastating bankruptcy when you realized the truth about how you were raised religiously. There can be bits of bankruptcy along the way on the journey there doesn’t have to be some huge long painful catastrophe to learn and advance. There’s a quote that goes like learn from seeing the whip not being whipped.


Jedi Council Member
I don't think this state of moral bakrupty is something that you aim to attain. Usually it occurs at some time, without it being specifically anticipated. Also, hope does not prevent despair, and despair doesn't prevent hope. We are emotionally rich enough to experience both with no contradiction.
Hey Shelby, I think you already got a lot of great thoughts here, I simply want to add two things. First the bolded part in mkrnhrs quote. As I experience change in my thoughts, my reactions to others, the world and to myself, I came across a certain point in which I realized that something had changed. And this change seems to be always quite suddenly. All the way to this change was just building up potential, so to say, and it can take years until you reach your personal potential to change, but when things have changed, you look back and somehow ask yourself "what took me so long?" because everything is clear NOW. You cannot unlearn something learned through experience. You can forget, ignore, fight it or whatever but you cannot unlearn!

I want to add a poem I really love which is in my eyes related.

A poem by Portia Nelson
There is a whole in my sidewalk

Chapter 1
I walk down the street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I fall in.
I am lost… I am helpless.
It isn’t my fault.
It takes forever to find a way out.

Chapter 2
I walk down the street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I pretend that I don’t see it.
I fall in again.
I can’t believe I am in this same place.
But, it isn’t my fault.
It still takes a long time to get out.

Chapter 3
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I see it is there.
I still fall in … it’s a habit … but, my eyes are open.
I know where I am.
It is my fault.
I get out immediately.

Chapter 4
I walk down the same street.
There is a deep hole in the sidewalk.
I walk around it.

Chapter 5
I walk down another street.
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