Self Remembering

[skycsil]

It's fun and curious. It's like healing the inner child, then the memories simply pop up because they don't hurt anymore, so there's no need to keep all those nasty things in the basement :P

 

[axj]

My understanding is that there are two things which can be termed 'intuition'. One is the instinct of the physical body and the other is an irrational (not of the rational mind) knowing of things, akin to the Silent Knowledge which Castaneda talks about. This Silent Knowledge is actually the accessing of the higher mind, or the knowledge of the Higher Self - which goes far beyond the rational mind.

Does self-remembering include instinct of the physical body as a sensing function, axj?

I am not sure I understand your question, go2. I think that accessing instinct is possible without self-remembering, and it may even be possible to access the higher mind without self-remembering - though it would be much more difficult.

Self-remembering does seem to be one of the core aspects of the Work, because without making this choice to exist (which is what self-remembering seems to be), the Work cannot really "work".

Edit: I sometimes wonder if its my intellect that is irrational and that the higher mind is rational? ;)

That is certainly true a lot of the time. ;)

 

[Guardian]

So, intuition would include awareness and trust all three categories of perception. It took me some time to trust the speed and nuance of sense and feeling perception, as more accurate for judging human character and situational threat than the intellect alone.

Does this ring true with your experience of intuitive perception?

No, not really. I've trusted my intuition as long as I can remember, it's always been my other senses that I have a hard time believing...mainly because they're wrong more often than my intuition is.

I wonder if you are accessing the Higher Mind as a source of intuitive knowing, as mentioned by axj?

I have no clue? I really don't spend much time trying to figure out the stuff that works....I'm usually too busy digging into whatever I screwed up.

 

[Guardian]

Self-remembering does seem to be one of the core aspects of the Work, because without making this choice to exist (which is what self-remembering seems to be), the Work cannot really "work"

Now you've totally lost me axj. How does one make a choice NOT to exist...other than the obvious stepping in front of a bus type thing? Even then, we still exist, we just trashed a meat suit? I don't get it?

 

[axj]

Hi Guardian,

Maybe the easiest way is to distinguish between a 'mechanical' existing and existing in the sense of self-remembering and being true to your authentic self.

Self-remembering seems to be the choice for your authentic self, who you really are, to exist - instead of being identified and getting quite literally lost in something else.

 

[Guardian]

Hi Guardian,

Maybe the easiest way is to distinguish between a 'mechanical' existing and existing in the sense of self-remembering and being true to your authentic self.

Self-remembering seems to be the choice for your authentic self, who you really are, to exist - instead of being identified and getting quite literally lost in something else.

I'm not sure my "authentic self" ever gave me a choice? I've never noticed an option to be anything other than what I am? If I had, I'd of probably picked it...but I think I understand what you're saying. Sorta...maybe?

 

[axj]

Here is something from a 4th Way website that may clarify what authentic self is as opposed to just 'mechanical' existing:

You are not only programs and mechanics. There is something in you that is authentic, unique behind all of these things. That Real I, True Self begins to gain strength or surface with the first observation of False Personality. Since you know already that there is something in you that isn't only mechanical, the I that knows this is the I of self-observation. That I is the beginning of who you are (Real I).

_http://www.gurdjieff-internet.com/article_details.php?ID=242&W=44

 

[Buddy]

My understanding is that there are two things which can be termed 'intuition'. One is the instinct of the physical body and the other is an irrational (not of the rational mind) knowing of things, akin to the Silent Knowledge which Castaneda talks about. This Silent Knowledge is actually the accessing of the higher mind, or the knowledge of the Higher Self - which goes far beyond the rational mind.

I agree to a point, however, I feel that to explain something as 'instinct' is to not really gain any ground. Unless maybe we use Sheldrake's model of morphological fields.

Take this with a grain of salt: In the terms I normally use to talk about the subject, genuine intuition comes from the 'Feeling Center' and is what I've been terming the inductive faculty - with the automatic physiological/emotional responses being in the moving center.

Rather than thinking of the human system as a stack with the thinking center on the top and the moving center on the bottom, I think of it as a circle divided by 3 radii. For some jobs and activities I like to do, for much of the day and much of the time, the thinking center (what I call the deductive faculty, together with its Narrator) needs to shut up, and the feeling and moving centers do their thing.

I believe that people with their feeling center squelched by high dopamine don't have the fine gain adjustment for it to work. It is numbed into sleep - anesthetized. They are also conditioned to doing everything with the thinking center, which has a tendency to over-complicate everything in its desire to be right in order to earn it's keep so-to-speak.

Other animals don't have a strong thinking center at all. It's the feeling center which keeps most creatures alive and fed. Sort of like a cat paused with one paw in the air, waiting to know which way to go. The impressions just pop up, depending on the situation. The more often it's right, the more you can trust; the more you trust, the more often it is right. :)

 

[axj]

I agree, the physical body is much wiser than is commonly assumed. For example, driving a car is primarily a skill of the physical body. When you learn driving, you start by using the mental center - which is much slower than the physical center. So your driving is much worse when you first have to think about it with the mental center.

 

[amd57432]

Self-remembering seems to be the choice for your authentic self, who you really are, to exist - instead of being identified and getting quite literally lost in something else. [/quote]

I'm not sure my "authentic self" ever gave me a choice? I've never noticed an option to be anything other than what I am? If I had, I'd of probably picked it...but I think I understand what you're saying. Sorta...maybe?
[/quote]

Hi,
For those that don't know, Guardian and I are roommates and have been close friends for 20+ years. I say this so you will understand that the next statement comes from experience.

Guardian is an authentic self. She does not understand the idea of the mechanical self because she has had no personal experience as it.

 

[Buddy]

Guardian is an authentic self. She does not understand the idea of the mechanical self because she has had no personal experience as it.

Perhaps so. I have no reason to doubt it as I have followed Guardian's posts with delight since the time of boarding. :D

 

[axj]

Hi,
For those that don't know, Guardian and I are roommates and have been close friends for 20+ years. I say this so you will understand that the next statement comes from experience.

Guardian is an authentic self. She does not understand the idea of the mechanical self because she has had no personal experience as it.

Actually, I think she understand the mechanical self and programs quite well.

Everyone has an authentic self. What differs is the degree to which we are truly in touch with it and how much we express from our authenticity, instead of learned programs.

The more you remove the programs, beliefs, habitual patterns and so on - the more authentic you become. As you remove the false, the only thing that is left is the authentic.

EDIT: With 'Everyone' I mean every souled being.

 

[obyvatel]

Hi Tristan, We can be said to have sensing, feeling, and thinking functions.

Which category does my intuition fall under?

Dabrowski treated intuition as a synthesizing mental function which uses multiple channels (intellectual, emotional and instinctive) to access aspects of multilevel reality. In Work terms, this would mean that intuition involves the coordination of sensing, feeling and thinking functions and is most likely related to the state of self-remembering.

In Dabrowski's model of development, intuition appears in a distinct form as one reaches the stage of spontaneous multilevel disintegration and continues to develop through the stage of secondary integration. He identifies developmental dynamisms like the subject-object in oneself, third factor, empathy and self-consciousness as being related to the function of intuition.
(Dabrowski's model of development has been discussed in
Theory of Positive Disintegration .
Developmental dynamisms have been discussed in Multilevelness of Emotional and Instinctive Functions
)

Dabrowski gives the example of a physician making an initial "intuitive working hypothesis" diagnosis of a patient. In case of a good physician such an initial diagnosis would be confirmed 85-90% of the time after more detailed examination generates more data. Also, the same intuitive faculty would enable the physician to combine partial, specialized diagnoses into a dynamic whole. Here is his definition of intuition
[quote author=Dabrowski]
By intuition we mean the capacity for setting up synthesizing hypotheses from data which are not sufficient for logical justification of the conclusion. The function of intuition may precede the stage of discursive elaboration and empirical testing and later follow them.
[/quote]

 

[Guardian]

Actually, I think she understand the mechanical self and programs quite well.

Welll "programs" I get, they kinda stick out...usually after the fact, but I'm still working on what yawl mean when you say "mechanical self" Is the "mechanical self" what happens when one or more of the other three (sensing, feeling, and thinking) doesn't listen to the soul/spirit?

 

[Mountain Crown]

Actually, I think she understand the mechanical self and programs quite well.

Welll "programs" I get, they kinda stick out...usually after the fact, but I'm still working on what yawl mean when you say "mechanical self" Is the "mechanical self" what happens when one or more of the other three (sensing, feeling, and thinking) doesn't listen to the soul/spirit?

Hi Guardian,

It’s my understanding that what is generally referred to here as the “mechanical self” is the sum of all the emotional, cognitive, and physical responses that are automatic and were learned either when we had no ability for objective assessment or to buffer the cognitive/emotional dissonance that results from living with lies.

Though the term seems to imply a unity, it is said to actually function as numerous dissociated identities sharing the sense of “I.”