Self Remembering

[Guardian]

Since Guardian's predominant role in this incarnation has been that of a rescuer, her receiving apparatus is likely attuned to the "trauma frequency" - so she could be more sensitive to such inputs. It is not merely instincts of the physical body - a very strong element of empathy is involved. In the crow example that she gave, there was no element of danger involved either for her or for anyone close to her - which if present I believe would likely lead to a triggering of the physical body's instinct related to distress and survival.

True, the only being in distress was the crow...and that's what I picked up on.

It can get VERY interesting when your rescue instinct is at direct odds with your survival instinct. When a life other than your own is in danger, your "Intuition" can tell you, "Breath, breath...you can do this. if you do blah blah blah, you can save them and survive" At the same time, your survival instinct is going "Are you freak'in crazy.. GET US OUTA HERE" I've literally had to fight my own feet before when they insisted on going in the opposite direction of where my spirit wanted to go.

 

[Buddy]

I notice with intuition it is a initial gut feeling that is quickly covered up by programs. If one can remember this initial thought or feeling and then compare it to the outcome, this can be helpful. It can show what kind of programs are running used to cover up your intuition.

I believe it is the enteric (gut) system that is involved, yes.

Sometimes though, the initial gut feeling will never leave it is so strong.

Yep, with me, impressions and intuitions vary in their impact from strong to very subtle. I can choose to ignore any of them if they are irrelevant to a current activity. My personal feeling is that some impressions are little more than qualia present in the data itself. It's Universe having the experience of itself after all!

As for self remembering in general. I have been approaching it with remembering to change my mechanical movements and thoughts. I remember to walk different. I remember to listen to my tone of voice and alter it. I remember to smile etc. I remember that I don't really know what is going on etc. This applies to thoughts etc.

Is this a good start at self remembering?

As I see it, yes indeed! The more habits you can change and the more often you can change them, forces you to pay attention because you must decide, in the moment, to implement some kind of pattern interrupt and notice the effects.

I often wonder if it is all one can do to remember and not much more. I also notice that when doing this style of self remembering, there is little room for programs and mechanicalness.

From my perspective, it's not that there is no room for mechanicalness. Programs that objectively exist are still there, it's just that when you are truly self-remembering, your awareness is occupying the non-linear loop where anything seems possible and options seem unlimited and you can truly feel the present moment.

Self remembering is listening to your conscience too? I think so.

It seems definitely related to knowing its contents, at any rate. :)

 

[obyvatel]

These functions are entirely mechanical in the normal man or woman, until self-remembering and self-observation establish control over the mechanical reactions of the machine. Human behavior is almost entirely mechanically programmed by DNA and culture. Instincts are entirely mechanical, empathy is entirely mechanical, and most thinking is programmed by culture and is entirely mechanical. Where is the conscious man or woman?

There are people who are completely mechanical - whose behavior is programmed through genetics and culture (Dabrowski's first two factors of development) - Dabrowski's developmental levels of 1 and 2. Then there is the ideal of a fully conscious human alluded to by people - perhaps akin to Dabrowski's 5th level of development ( secondary integration). Between these two, lie the class of people who are struggling to wake up and become conscious. They may be conscious some of the time, and mechanical at other times. These people belong to Dabrowski's developmental levels of 3 and 4. These are people going through positive disintegrative processes of their psyche. Many in this forum belong to this category.

So when discussing instincts or empathy, one would need to carefully study the context in which their manifestation was observed and also perhaps take into account the average developmental level of the person concerned through the observation of specific behavioral factors (dynamisms) which may (or may not) have appeared. Only then one could say whether the behavior observed was entirely mechanical, or whether it displayed flashes of consciousness.

True empathy would probably fall into the category of consciousness rather than mechanicalness. There is a mechanical version of empathy which Dabrowski calls temperamental syntony. Here there is "group feeling" dependent on the "mood of the moment". This is the mirror-neuron based primitive empathy that is automatic in nature - Daniel Goleman talks about it in Social Intelligence. It does not require an understanding of the "other" - the object of empathy. And such primal empathy quickly disappears when a conflict of interest appears in the picture. The higher cognitive process is typically absent in this type of primal empathy. In true empathy however, there is an understanding of the "other" and a desire to help without necessarily approving of the object of empathy. In Guardian's example of the crow, we see that she did not approve of what the crows were doing to the fields - tried multiple ways to get rid of them - yet she took pains to seek out and help an injured bird. So imo, it was true empathy.

 

[go2]

Thank you for the answer that consciousness is time and context specific for those who pay attention, obyvatel. :)

 

[Paragon]

Yes bud the process you describe, it's just like a switch! It just turns on and you suddenly feel like you could literally do anything. I feel like I'm aware of all the variables in a situation without having to think about it, as it just all happens in real time. I get the feeling life is meant to be lived this way but it's quite hard to stay in that state of mind, especially if I identify with a stray negative thought which then proceeds to take over my awareness - it eats it up!. And I find that you just fall deeper into your negative introject when you identify with it, and it begins to get harder to 'switch on' again so sometimes I just laugh it off and that can help.

It affects me physically more than any other area because I could be walking about confidently in my shop, then a negative thought pops into my head and tells me that I walk funny which makes me self conscious and I begin to act all goofy, 'switching off' and leads me to internally consider.

Thank you for adding this to the discussion. :)

No problem bud!

Your post really resonated with me because I have been experiencing this change in consciousness ( at least I think so) and I was finding it difficult to express the process in the written word in several posts I have made recently. So your whole post there helped thanks! :)

It's not a permanent thing for me yet, I really struggle everyday because I go between these states of consciousness constantly. I might have say 10 minutes of being 'switched on' and then something annoys me for example, and I fall back into my inner world of internally considering and doubting myself. It does feel as if I'm fighting something not natural yet at the same time, a part of my self; a false personality.

Bud, if there is any material you can suggest for me to look up on regarding this specific subject, I would greatly appreciate it :)

 

[Buddy]

It's not a permanent thing for me yet, I really struggle everyday because I go between these states of consciousness constantly. I might have say 10 minutes of being 'switched on' and then something annoys me for example, and I fall back into my inner world of internally considering and doubting myself. It does feel as if I'm fighting something not natural yet at the same time, a part of my self; a false personality.

It will probably be that way until your brain/body chemistry rebalances in the 'switched on' state, so don't worry...just keep going and be as little habitual and mechanical as you can, as often as you can and for as long as you can.

Bud, if there is any material you can suggest for me to look up on regarding this specific subject, I would greatly appreciate it :)

As far as I know, no protocol (as of yet) has been developed to accomplish this outside of esoteric work. I've been sort of keeping an eye on pharmaceuticals though, because assuming a dopamine antagonist comes out that will bind to D4 receptors without activating them (yeah right), the demonstration of these available (but missing in some people) faculties will be much easier, and there will be a few researchers I know who will be dancing for joy.

As it stands, people who have their full cognitive faculties and their feeling center connection with the world can be found mostly in aboriginal and Native American cultures and in people who occupy the 'disorder' (from the 'ordered' perspective) spectrum - from the genuine ADHD and ASD'ers (though not all are free from serious disturbances due to what they see and how they are often treated, or because of other accompanying physiological issues), and those who have achieved the state from their esoteric work - whether Sufi trained, Gurdjieff trained, or whatever, as long as the shocks or impacts were carefully designed and calculated for specific individuals.

According to the Alfred data, most of those people are in the U.S. and the rest scattered around the globe - mostly in the Middle East and some in Europe. Yeah, I know - frequency fence and supposed fighting over oil reserves, and such. Wonder why? Hmmmmm. :)

Anyway, there are some fun exercises that are sometimes given to computer programmers to experiment with that seem to lead to the same, or similar effect. I'll see if I can round them up and post them. :)

 

[anart]

It's not a permanent thing for me yet, I really struggle everyday because I go between these states of consciousness constantly. I might have say 10 minutes of being 'switched on' and then something annoys me for example, and I fall back into my inner world of internally considering and doubting myself. It does feel as if I'm fighting something not natural yet at the same time, a part of my self; a false personality.

It will probably be that way until your brain/body chemistry rebalances in the 'switched on' state, so don't worry...just keep going and be as little habitual and mechanical as you can, as often as you can and for as long as you can.

I'm a little confused, Bud - are you saying that you are now permanently in the 'switched on' state? Does this mean that you consider yourself to be fully awake? I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you...

 

[Buddy]

If I've made any connection between bringing the full inductive cognitive faculty online and the esoteric "awakening to the evil principle at work", it was unintentional...assuming that's what you mean by "fully awake".

I'm talking about the inductive feedback loop. The one that, when it "switches on", has a self monitor that allows the individual to "unstick" from the analog I of the thinking center and feel his sense of self as blended with everything around him. You can 'think' without words (and not even think of it as "thinking" since that would be thinking in words :)) because it's a non-linear state and practically see all the way around (in a Bayesian sense) most any issue that interests you.

In these terms, I believe I have described myself as a "flip flopper", but the "switched on" state lasts longer most of the time.

The connection to self-remembering is simply that everything you know and have experienced is right there with you, since there is really nowhere else for it to be anyway. You still have to recapitulate to fill out your self-picture though.



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Edit: word additions for clarity (hopefully).

 

[anart]

If I've made any connection between bringing the full inductive cognitive faculty online and the esoteric "awakening to the evil principle at work", it was unintentional...assuming that's what you mean by "fully awake".

I'm talking about the inductive feedback loop. The one that, when it "switches on", has a self monitor that allows the individual to "unstick" from the analog I of the thinking center and feel his sense of self as blended with everything around him. You can 'think' without words (and not even think of it as "thinking" since that would be thinking in words :)) because it's a non-linear state and practically see all the way around (in a Bayesian sense) most any issue that interests you.

In these terms, I believe I have described myself as a "flip flopper", but the "switched on" state lasts longer most of the time.

The connection to self-remembering is simply that everything you know and have experienced is right there with you, since there is really nowhere else for it to be anyway. You still have to recapitulate to fill out your self-picture though.



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Edit: word additions for clarity (hopefully).

I'm either not understanding you (which is most likely) or you're blurring some lines between esoteric awakening (which incorporates the self-remembering discussed in this thread) and some sort of cognitive focus. I asked because of the way you're talking about this, which is as if you've reached a level of enlightenment that is 'switched on' and 'lasts longer'. It's been my experience that the more enlightened an individual becomes, the less likely they are to say that they are enlightened or 'switched on' because with each level of increased awareness, the vast distance before them to reach a more heightened state is incrementally illuminated. It's another step on the ladder which allows one to grasp not only how far they have come but the vast expanse of learning ahead of them.

Your certainty is what caught me up a bit and it's why I think that I am most likely misunderstanding you.

 

[Buddy]

I'm either not understanding you (which is most likely) or you're blurring some lines between esoteric awakening (which incorporates the self-remembering discussed in this thread) and some sort of cognitive focus. I asked because of the way you're talking about this, which is as if you've reached a level of enlightenment that is 'switched on' and 'lasts longer'. It's been my experience that the more enlightened an individual becomes, the less likely they are to say that they are enlightened or 'switched on' because with each level of increased awareness, the vast distance before them to reach a more heightened state is incrementally illuminated. It's another step on the ladder which allows one to grasp not only how far they have come but the vast expanse of learning ahead of them.

Your certainty is what caught me up a bit and it's why I think that I am most likely misunderstanding you.

I realize that 'esoteric awakening' incorporates self-remembering as discussed in this thread. I also experience self-remembering that fits the esoteric descriptions that is not exclusive to the category of esoteric work and has the same practical benefits, OSIT. The only differences I currently see are simply that in esoteric Work, more esoteric perspectives, thoughts and knowledge are included in the single memory structure.

The self-remembering-as-cognitive-or-perceptual-function seems natural for an understanding-based memory since there is only a single context into which every perception and experience can fit. When understanding truly means understanding, how does one forget? It takes a drugged, numbed, or a fixed "bored-I-give-up" state to narrow one's focus enough to start forgetting oneself and what one knows, as I am seeing it.

Also, although I have used the word a few times, I don't speak of "levels of enlightnment" in relation to whatever knowledge or experience I might or might not have. It leaves a bad 'taste' in my mouth. I am almost always 'certain' there's a clearer way to make a given point.

Of course, certainty can be relative and I seem to be able to express conviction without realizing that it is similar enough to that "pathological certainty" to be confusing. :)

 

[Alada]

When understanding truly means understanding, how does one forget?

So far, much of the to and fro recently on this thread has gone right over my head, I don't understand what you mean, or what you are describing either. But that is okay, I am not so bright, but I can learn.

Thing is, if a thing is truly understood, it should be possible to explain it simply to another, on their level of understanding. Can you explain how your ideas / experiences relate to self remembering, what you think self remembering is and your experience of it?

Might help get the thread back on subject too. ;)

 

[truth seeker]

So far, much of the to and fro recently on this thread has gone right over my head, I don't understand what you mean, or what you are describing either. But that is okay, I am not so bright, but I can learn.

Sorry, but I had to laugh when I read this. I guess we're in the same boat Alada. :D

Thing is, if a thing is truly understood, it should be possible to explain it simply to another, on their level of understanding. Can you explain how your ideas / experiences relate to self remembering, what you think self remembering is and your experience of it?

Absolutely.

 

[Jacques]

So far, much of the to and fro recently on this thread has gone right over my head, I don't understand what you mean, or what you are describing either. But that is okay, I am not so bright, but I can learn.

Sorry, but I had to laugh when I read this. I guess we're in the same boat Alada. :D

Count me in too.

 

[Mr. Premise]

Yes,Bud, it seems like you are writing to yourself here again. It's not externally considerate when you are assuming we can follow what you are writing. I had to read your posts three times and I'm still not sure what your argument about dopamine is exactly. Also, your sentence structure and vocabulary is way too advanced. Maybe you shouldn't worry so much about what you consider 'clarity' and just try to use brief simple language.

If you really have an opened emotional center wouldn't that translate into more consideration for your readers and a simpler, more emotionally aware discourse?

 

[Guardian]

So far, much of the to and fro recently on this thread has gone right over my head, I don't understand what you mean, or what you are describing either. But that is okay, I am not so bright, but I can learn.

Sorry, but I had to laugh when I read this. I guess we're in the same boat Alada. :D

Count me in too.

Well I certainly hope it's a big boat, 'cause I'm going to have to hop in with you guys. It's a proven fact, the more I read (including on this forum) and do, the dumber I get. I remember I was practically a genus back when I was a teenager...I knew everything, but it went steadily downhill from there. :(


Mod's note: Edited to fix the quotation boxes