Serotonin Deficiency Syndrome

[un chien anadolu]

Thank you Laura for the valuable information.

Protein-rich foods, such as meat or chicken, contain high levels of tryptophans. Tryptophan appears in dairy foods, nuts, and fowl. Ironically, however, levels of both tryptophan and serotonin drop after eating a meal packed with protein. Why? According to nutritionist Elizabeth Somer, when you eat a high-protein meal, you "flood the blood with both tryptophan and its competing amino acids," all fighting for entry into the brain. That means only a small amount of tryptophan gets through -- and serotonin levels don't rise.

But eat a carbohydrate-rich meal, and your body triggers a release of insulin. This, Somer says, causes any amino acids in the blood to be absorbed into the body -- but not the brain. Except for, you guessed it -- tryptophan! It remains in the bloodstream at high levels following a carbohydrate meal, which means it can freely enter the brain and cause serotonin levels to rise, she says.

I couldn't understand this part exactly though. So eventually which diet type (protein-rich vs carbohydrate-rich) is in favor of serotonin increase ? Or is it so :

Carbohydrate-rich meals (diet) are effective in short term for serotonin increase while a protein-rich diet supports a longterm and steady serotonin level ?

 

[Gaby]

Perhaps this will help to clarify:

http://intelegen.com/nutrients/5htp_5hydroxytryptophan_vs.htm

In any normal diet, animal protein-based or vegetarian, tryptophan is the least plentiful of all 20 food amino acids. Thus, tryptophan is typically outnumbered as much as 9:1 in its competition to secure its transport through the blood-brain barrier into the brain. Eating a high-protein diet in an attempt to increase dietary tryptophan (a typical diet provides only 1-1.5 grams/day) only increases its competition even more. Ironically, the only dietary strategy that increases brain tryptophan supply is a high-carbohydrate, low-protein diet. When large amounts of carbohydrates are eaten, the body secretes large amounts of the hormone insulin to lower the resulting high blood sugar. In addition to lowering blood sugar levels, insulin also clears most of the five amino acids that compete with tryptophan for a ride to the brain. The result is that tryptophan has the bus to itself, allowing plenty of tryptophan to reach the brain. (10)

For this reason, in "Treating and Beating Fibromyalgia and CFS", it is recommended to take the 5 HTP in an empty stomach (90 minutes after or 30 minutes before eating), with a little bit of grape juice which will then help the 5 HTP to get into the brain. But if there are problems of blood sugar levels, it is okay to take it with water. We opted for this second choice to cut sugar intake and it also seems to work.

A person that craves simple carbs to increase levels of serotonin in the brain, will eventually have problems of insulin resistance, inflammation, yeast overgrowth, etc. Then the serotonin levels will "crash" and the person has carbs cravings again. It is vicious cycle.

Protein helps to stabilize blood sugars, and it also provides raw material for other neurotransmitters. In the long-term, it is probably best to balance our high quality protein with healthy fats and complex carbohydrates (i.e. veggies) in order to have a healthy release of insulin.

My 2 cents

 

[aragorn]

For this reason, in "Treating and Beating Fibromyalgia and CFS", it is recommended to take the 5 HTP in an empty stomach (90 minutes after or 30 minutes before eating), with a little bit of grape juice which will then help the 5 HTP to get into the brain. But if there are problems of blood sugar levels, it is okay to take it with water. We opted for this second choice to cut sugar intake and it also seems to work.

Just to clarify, didn't Dr. Murphree write also that those who have a sluggish liver and can't take 5-HTP in the evenings (making them too alert at night) should take it with meals during the day? So this means one should take the capsules after or before the meals, not WITH the meal...?

 

[Laura]

Ya'll start out at lower doses and take it with food at lunch and dinner. When you start sleeping 8 hours straight through the night, or if you wake up, you can go right back to sleep, then that's probably your right dose. And you may need less of it when your system starts stabilizing, according to everything I've read about it. I went as high as 500 mg per day for a couple of weeks, now I'm down to between 200 and 300.

 

[Gaby]

Just to clarify, didn't Dr. Murphree write also that those who have a sluggish liver and can't take 5-HTP in the evenings (making them too alert at night) should take it with meals during the day? So this means one should take the capsules after or before the meals, not WITH the meal...?

I'm not sure, I don't recall if he specified. At least he says that people with sluggish livers should take it with meals, calling for patience as it might take some time (weeks) for the 5 HTP levels to build up in order to have a good night sleep. Michael Murray, in the book "5 HTP", recommends to take it 20' before a meal to reduce the risk of nausea from the 5 HTP (some people have nausea).

I have a sluggish liver as well, I can't take 5 HTP nor GABA nor melatonin at night. But when I take the 5 HTP during the day, I take it with or without meals, and both seems to work fine for me. I don't take it for insomnia though, I usually don't have problems with that. I take the 5 HTP to help me with my mood.

 

[Helle]

My 2 boys have been diagnosed with ADD, and their father and I do NOT agree about how to treat them. He wants them on Ritalin, suggested by the psychiatrist, I want to at least TRY with the 5HTP and diet changes first. (which I KNOW know know is gonna help!)

Everytime I order 5 HTP, it gets snatched in customs though, so I'm quite desperate! I just tried order some again, and keep my fingers crossed! Police-state anyone?

But, the question is : if and when I get the 5 HTP, how much should I give the kids? I was thinking 50mg with dinner to start out, and then build up? How long before I can determine whether they need more?
I'm not going to pack 5HTP in they lunch, because I know it can cause some dizziness, so I wanna be there when they take it.

I know they don't tolerate dairy, and I can keep 1 child off it, but the other child is living with his father, so..
Gluten is another story, not going so well keeping the family off gluten.

In any way, beating their serotonin deficiency syndrome seems to be a good way to start out, because it's so 'easily' fixed. - And maybe I could even 'sell it' the their father, who knows.

 

[Laura]

Might be better to first deal with dietary issues. Have you read "The Ultra-Mind Solution"? Very important if you are going to be treating your children.

 

[Helle]

Might be better to first deal with dietary issues. Have you read "The Ultra-Mind Solution"? Very important if you are going to be treating your children.

Yes I have the book right here. Controlling what my children eat has proven to be somewhat of a challenge though. They're 13 and 10, and the 10 year old doesn't live with me.

 

[Laura]

Might be better to first deal with dietary issues. Have you read "The Ultra-Mind Solution"? Very important if you are going to be treating your children.

Yes I have the book right here. Controlling what my children eat has proven to be somewhat of a challenge though. They're 13 and 10, and the 10 year old doesn't live with me.

I don't know if giving the supplements will work very well without the dietary changes. Perhaps your husband should read the book?

 

[3DStudent]

I've been taking 5-htp since I started supplementation. I used to take SSRI's for a short period of time, so I figured I still might have an imbalance. I take 200 mg when I wake up and 100 mg when I go to sleep. I fall asleep within 5 minutes, almost no time to think. But that might be the melatonin I take too.

I eat within 15 minutes of taking my morning dose, but of course don't eat right before the bed dose. After reading that you should take it with meals, maybe I'll move my second dose to lunch or dinner time.

 

[dugdeep]

I realized after the fact that the 5HTP I bought is enteric coated, meaning it passes through the acidic stomach and doesn't break down until it hits the sodium bicarbonate in the small intestine. I'm not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing. I've only been taking it for a week, so I can't really say if it's having an effect or not so far. Any idea why the enteric coating?

 

[abstract]

I want to add something to all of this.

I recently quit smoking cannabis (marijuana).

I have been off pot completely since tuesday. I cannot even begin to describe how much better i feel, how much more balanced my brain

chemistry is!

I can tell now in my clearer state of mind that pot did in fact contribute heavily to seretonin deficiency, today i felt happier than i have in years. YEARS.

I am going to write up a post, a very lengthly post which I will explain my experience smoking pot everyday for the last (almost) 3 years.

I have some acute, intense realizations i would like to share regarding this. I realize it's against our rules to discuss drugs, however, i feel it will be

appropiate in the context i am intending. However, I would first like to ask, out of external consideration, is this OK with the administrators and mods?

There will be no promotion of the substance whatsoever. I feel that sharing my experience will help others a great deal.

 

[Laura]

Ummm... I think I would wait awhile until you have more time to evaluate, not to mention a longer track record. "Since Tuesday" is really not long enough to base any discussion.

 

[Guardian]

I did a search and realized that we don't have a real thread on this topic even though we are taking 5-htp here at HQ

Is that the same stuff I use as gas treatment in my truck?

Edited to add: Answered my own question. I looked and it's 5-Stp that goes in the truck.

 

[Guardian]

Thanks a lot for providing these infos, Laura!

Ditto!

I think I'm one of those who're deficient in serotonine.

I think I might be too...at least in the winter time. I get VERY depressed without sunlight...to the point that my roommate will demand that I go sit under my special UV light because I'm getting urber cranky.