Session 10 December 2016

Divide By Zero said:
Ant22 said:
Yup, I can totally relate to that! I used to think that I could help people see the full picture if only I used the right arguments that resonated with them. But I've now gotten to the point where I think the "software" to understand certain concepts and truths that go beyond some people's pre-established beliefs just isn't there. It would be a complete waste of my time and energy to keep hitting my head against the wall.

As the saying goes, "in the age of information ignorance is a choice" and I guess they also have their free will to reject my arguments and stay where they are.

There are enough people with the right "software" out there who are capable of awakening to the "social proof". And you never know what words or news might strike a cord and inspire them to check the facts and data for themselves.
If it does, I'll make sure to explain and answer any questions they may have because a couple of years back someone did that for me too - and that set me on a path that eventually brought me here.

This is why it's important to me to only share content I'm comfortable with in terms of the amount and quality of facts I myself have gathered about it. Cognitive dissonance is a common initial response - and I must sheepishly admit that it was my first reaction too. It takes sufficient amount of information to support my point with, otherwise it will look like I'm trying to contradict their "facts" with my opinions and that's a short-cut to a disaster. For them, for me and most importantly - for the truth.

Just my two cents :)

As a nerd/geek/whatever, you used the perfect terminology. Software!

In mindfulness meditation, seeing how some of the thoughts are not really me, helped me see behind the scenes of this "software". It seems like the problem is the "drivers" (software that connects hardware and interconnects the parts of the brain/personality). If the drivers keep filtering the input or translate things incorrectly between parts of the brain (extreme case- split brain experiments), no matter how intelligent- the drivers will override logic. So we see snowflakes, global warming alarmists, and so on.

I too have hope in sharing information with people who have compatible "drivers/software" :)

It's just tiring to be in a world that seems to have a majority who aren't or who hide it to avoid uncomfortable truths.

I joke sometimes that if reincarnation is real, I want to reincarnate as a dumb person in a smart world, haha.

I have been thinking about your frustration with the "odds" we are up against and I see what you are saying from a computer programmer/applications developer background point of view.

I never really thought I would ever get on Twitter and wouldn't have done it but I figured Laura was probably on to something or she wouldn't have suggested it.

I am not on Facebook but my wife is. Since tweeting for awhile now I can see that I am following as many forum members as I can and have picked up others not on the forum who share our concerns. For me it doesn't matter whether I am making the big "trends" or hitting some list that Twitter filters to block me. I do think that their efforts (software) will never be so perfect as to block the truth from anyone really searching for it.

It's like when the Cs said we need to get out of our "bubble". I feel like my "bubble" is bouncing into other "bubbles" on Twitter and the result is a merge of effort and ideas. By following other tweeters who express awareness of what is going on around the world you may influence one or more of their followers and even learn a thing or two from them. I have found so many new news sources by just looking at what others are tweeting I can't even keep up with all of it. Who cares if we don't make the top 10 on the billboard charts. If we only connect to one more person with shared ideas and interests we are that much ahead I think.

You can always check out what others are tweeting before you follow them. It's really not that difficult once you get the hang of it and it might even be kind of fun.
 
In this context i found something, i don't remember the thread, that can be useful to read again:
Laura:
Citation de: PepperFritz le juin 27, 2009, 04:48:08 am

I think I can safely say that Laura has been actively "working" at shedding the Subjective and honing in on the Objective for much longer than any of us here. In fact, she has dedicated her life to it. Therefore, it would seem to be a given that her objective perception is dramatically sharper than most of ours on any given day of the week. So, given the choice between an intentionally Objective prayer crafted by someone of her experience/perception/skills, and one of my own "devising", why would I not take advantage of the superior gift that has been offered to me? Wouldn't her prayer (confirmed by the C's as "powerful") be a far more effective tool? It is, after all, designed to amplify our ability to perceive the Objective, not reflect our current subjectively flawed "version" of it....
It is true that I have, as the Cs described it, " literally turned the world upside down in search of the greatest truths for all of humanity, much to her potential peril" but I also STILL rely on my network for feedback. I am pretty convinced that, even if I act as a sort of "Big Sister" and "trail blazer," I don't have the whole banana without help. Any person who gets to the point that they think they have it all sussed out and don't need honest mirroring from others to prevent falling into the pit of hubris will, most definitely, fall into that pit!

Human beings were only able to evolve because of social ties. Trusting others seems to be an evolutionary strategy that served us well for a long time. In that evolutionary struggle, man was opposed to a "natural enemy," the environment and all it contained. All he had was his bigger brain to compensate for his smaller strength and speed; and, of course, his network.

Nowadays, we are no longer opposed to the natural world out there as the sparring partner, we are opposed to a culture that has been slowly infiltrated and taken over by pathologicals. At the same time, this outer world that has been shaped by pathology, also represents a certain pathological state within normal humans - their lack of ability to see pathology in individuals that look like themselves - an intra-species predator. Humanity's failure to perceive this, to adapt, means that our inner world, taken into us from the outside by means of identification, has become an "independent power" which, in its turn, by means of projection, is our own creation. After all, it is normal humans, not pathologicals, who have the real power to "create reality" as a group. Pathologicals only influence us - mostly women - to believe certain things are the norm, and we then act as they pull our strings.

This outer reality which has such a powerful influence on the formation of our character and the focusing of our creativity, has become a power itself and we are being challenged to become "new beings" that can evolutionarily adapt to this changing situation. Either we become fully pathological, in which case there will be no stress (the STS route), or we return to our roots taking with us the knowledge of the new "opponent" that will enable us to rebuild our social bonds and structures and survive through the massive changes that are ahead of us.

Because, realistically, even if no cataclysmic scenario of any external kind manifests, anybody with two neurons firing can see that we are most definitely heading straight into a "clash of civilizations" though it is not at all what is being touted. It is a clash of normal humans with pathologicals and right now, they have all the assets (which they have by trickery, cunning, cheating). Even the mildest scenario of the future is not pleasant to contemplate: Climate Change and its effects on humanity. It's not a pretty picture.

This principle that the inner world is taken in from the outside by means of identification, and then, in its turn, by way of projection, alters the external world so that it corresponds to the inner world even more closely, requires some serious thought. Basically, we have to bootstrap ourselves out of here by reverseing the process: we must create an inner world in the face of the opposition of the outer world, that then becomes strong enough, EN MASSE, to change the outer world.

The creative individual must be able to create and develop his standards beyond the identifications of the external pathological world. This means, in the simplest of terms, connecting with the higher self so that this part consciously guides and rules the creative will even in terms of the personality. The important factor here is that groups of individuals must get from here to there - here being the false personality created in us by the pathological external world, there being the merging with the higher self - by consciously choosing those factors that he will identify with.

This must be a group effort.

But, as we have seen in this thread - and elsewhere - language is all-important to that process. (Keeping in mind also that language is used to "create" the reality and control us.)

Language is another evolutionary thing; you need language to network so we might think that this ability has been wired into us as a consequence of evolutionary pressures and using language in some ways (like telling the truth) was evolutionarily adaptive in our history. But now, language is being used in ways it was not evolved to be used: to conceal truth and to create false images. This is one of the reasons that human beings are so stressed.

As I explained in the audio recording I made over the last couple of days to introduce the teaching of breathing techniques, stress is a worldwide epidemic. The number one disease of adults in the world is depression. Depression is the most extreme form of stress in your nervous system.

But here's the rub: stress response is vital for survival in times of danger. The problem comes when it is turned on too strong, too often.

The very fact that our stress response is doing this tells us that our bodies are telling us something about our world! There is DANGER out there, only it is hiding amongst us in the form of pathologicals! We are constantly in a state of stress because we are in a state of cognitive dissonance. We sense the danger, but we cannot SEE it because we have been programmed NOT to see it by lies and false reality constructs.

Getting back to the language problem: language can shape perception in ways that people are not aware of. Barbara Oakley, in her book "Evil Genes", points out that people who grow up speaking Chinese process mathematics in different areas of the brain than those who grow up speaking English. Both groups use the inferior parietal cortex, but Chinese speakers also use a visual processing areas, while English speakers use a language processing area.

This is important to know because it tells us something about the pathways in the brain that underlie some of the differences between Asians and Westerners in thought patterns. Different languages can cause anatomical differences in our brains. People who speak different languages literally see the world differently from one another.

That is larger scale effect between different languages.

There is a more subtle effect between individuals who speak the same language cause by different understandings of words and meanings. We've seen some examples of this in this very thread.

Language and culture act to structure the neurologically based lens that people use to perceive reality. Within a single language group, differences between people arise from family upbringing, religion, political persuasion, educatioal background, work experience, and so on. These all create different frames of reference.

James Surowiecki's book, The Wisdom of Crowds, suggests that multiple viewpoints from individuals with a wide range of backgrounds, rather than the restricted viewpoints of experts or specialists, are crucial in reaching informed decisions on complex topics. Oakley comments that getting input from a broad variety of people is like getting input from a wide variety of devices such as microscopes, telescopes, litmus paper, tensile testors, ultrasound devices, scales, and so on.

Here, of course, we are not talking about getting a lot of EMOTIONAL viewpoints, but rather perceptions and assessments of the shared, Primary Reality - what is REAL "out there". Even if we are agreeing that there is a real reality and it is what it is, no one of us has the all-encompassing way of perceiving that would give us the understanding of EVERY ASPECT of what is out there.

So, in this sense, the network itself is the Teacher.

But in order for a network to go anywhere and not just fall into entropy, there must be a direction and in that sense there must be a vanguard.

Vanguard: Etymology: Middle English vauntgard, from Anglo-French vantgarde, avantgarde, 1 : the troops moving at the head of an army 2 : the forefront of an action or movement.

It is also reflective of true evolutionary social activities that there are some who are trailblazers and others who support and "watch the back" of the trailblazers. Once the trail is blazed, and the destination is reached, the others not only benefit from the struggles of the trailblazer, they also set about organizing the details of the new environment and stabilizing it. So, everyone plays a role and if the network is tight, they all arrive pretty much together.

The bottom line is this: we are all in this mess together and we sink together, or we get our boat to harbor, but somebody's got to be the one who coordinates or we'll just go endlessly in circles, nobody will be bailing, paddling, or evaluating currents and signs to determine direction. I haven't been doing too bad at it, but I can't do it without data and help and there is no way I could gather all the data by myself, so the network is crucial in that respect also!

As I said, we evolved to trust one another - but that was a world where others were trustworthy. We live in a different world now. The cheaters in our world have evolved ways to induce us to trust them, but we can tell by our stress that we are going in the wrong direction, we are in mortal peril. But still, to get anything done at all, we MUST TRUST. And to figure out who to trust, we need to rely, again, on the network of observations from many observers. Again, we are not talking about getting a lot of EMOTIONAL viewpoints, but rather perceptions and assessments of the shared, Primary Reality - what is REAL "out there" and what really seems to work, to explain things, and has internal consistency over time.

Those who are able to accomplish this task of rebuilding social connections based on the new evolutionary standard of accounting for pathology in the equations, will evolve. Those who do not evolve will perish.

That's what I see from where I sit right now. United we stand, divided we fall. All for One and One for All.
« Modifié: juin 27, 2009, 08:04:40 am par Laura »

In college i made a video report on the homeless, to give them a voice, their own voice.
After the broadcast a classmate said something that seemed obvious to me: homeless are humans, they can be you and me !!! But before to see the video homeless were for him waste and good to be trampled, with those very words he shocked me so much, that it seems yesterday.
So let's twit and twitt and roll !
 
Ant22 said:
PERLOU said:
Voilà déjà plusieurs mois que je repartage les messages de Laure sur Facebook mais depuis qu'ils nous est demandé de touché de plus en plus de personnes j'ai réactivé mon compte Twiter et Google...
Par contre ce qui est dommage c'est que les traducteurs Facebook n'existent pas sur Twiter ou du moins je ne les ai pas trouvés...

It is already several months that I relay the messages of Laure on Facebook but since we are asked to touch more and more people I reactivated my account Twiter and Google ...
By cons what is a shame is that the Facebook translators do not exist on Twiter or at least I have not found them ...

Hello PERLOU, I found this article about translating tweets in a different language here: https://support.twitter.com/articles/20172133 and if you would like to view it in French, there is a drop down option in the top right corner where you can select the language you want.

To view a Tweet translation:
1. When you see a Tweet in a different language, look for the globe icon located in the Tweet.
2, If you see it, click or tap the Tweet to expand it.
3. A translation of the text in the Tweet will appear below the original Tweet.

Once the translation shows up, I guess you could copy it and retweet it. Hope it works for you! :)



Un grand merci à Toi, j'ai compris et j'y suis bien arrivée...

A big thank you to You, I understood and I arrived there ...
 
J'ai enfin reçu mon CD Samadhi que j'écoute en boucle depuis ce matin...
J'ai eu le plaisir d'y retrouver en premier le "Gayatri Mantra" que je connais par coeur car j'ai la cassette de cette chanson, depuis de nombreuses années, interprétée directement par Sathya Baba lui même dont j'ai lu tous les livres de ses disciples traduits en Français...
J'ai même encore un peu de Vibhuti dans ma bibliothèque, j'ai également des cassettes vidéos le concernant...
Merci pour ce bonheur...

I finally received my CD Samadhi that I listen in loop since this morning ...
I had the pleasure to see first the "Gayatri Mantra" which I know by heart because I have the tape of this song, for many years, directly interpreted by Sathya Baba himself of which I read all The books of his disciples translated into French ...
I still have a little Vibhuti in my library, I also have videos about him ...
Thank you for this happiness ...
 
Divide By Zero said:
Ant22 said:
Yup, I can totally relate to that! I used to think that I could help people see the full picture if only I used the right arguments that resonated with them. But I've now gotten to the point where I think the "software" to understand certain concepts and truths that go beyond some people's pre-established beliefs just isn't there. It would be a complete waste of my time and energy to keep hitting my head against the wall.

As the saying goes, "in the age of information ignorance is a choice" and I guess they also have their free will to reject my arguments and stay where they are.

There are enough people with the right "software" out there who are capable of awakening to the "social proof". And you never know what words or news might strike a cord and inspire them to check the facts and data for themselves.
If it does, I'll make sure to explain and answer any questions they may have because a couple of years back someone did that for me too - and that set me on a path that eventually brought me here.

This is why it's important to me to only share content I'm comfortable with in terms of the amount and quality of facts I myself have gathered about it. Cognitive dissonance is a common initial response - and I must sheepishly admit that it was my first reaction too. It takes sufficient amount of information to support my point with, otherwise it will look like I'm trying to contradict their "facts" with my opinions and that's a short-cut to a disaster. For them, for me and most importantly - for the truth.

Just my two cents :)

As a nerd/geek/whatever, you used the perfect terminology. Software!

In mindfulness meditation, seeing how some of the thoughts are not really me, helped me see behind the scenes of this "software". It seems like the problem is the "drivers" (software that connects hardware and interconnects the parts of the brain/personality). If the drivers keep filtering the input or translate things incorrectly between parts of the brain (extreme case- split brain experiments), no matter how intelligent- the drivers will override logic. So we see snowflakes, global warming alarmists, and so on.

I too have hope in sharing information with people who have compatible "drivers/software" :)

It's just tiring to be in a world that seems to have a majority who aren't or who hide it to avoid uncomfortable truths.

I joke sometimes that if reincarnation is real, I want to reincarnate as a dumb person in a smart world, haha.

Divide by Zero I like your analogy of drivers even more as it explains the concept in much more detail. Although I'm not a techie myself, I work for an IT consultancy so your explanation really resonates with me.

I must say that it saved me a tremendous amount of time to simply accept that some people will not 'get it' or they will loop back as if the conversation never happened, or the facts and logic will simply fly right over their heads to the point that I end up doubting my English. And that's OK, it's their path, not mine and I don't have to walk with them - or drag them with me.

Sometimes it's hard to tell whether a conversation is a lost cause or not and at the end of the day I don't want people who do have the "right drivers" to go down with this ship humanity is on. But to me, understanding the whole concept of authoritarian followers effectively changed my approach from trying to convince people to trying to help them expand their own awareness. If the "right drivers" are there, the information will do the job in their minds and this is where the social proof is helpful. Convincing gets people raise their defences up. I've been more effective with "here's what I've found and here are my sources. If you think it's useful to check it out, please do. And if you find evidence proving me wrong then do tell me cause I don't want to be stuck in the wrong myself".
 
PERLOU said:
Un grand merci à Toi, j'ai compris et j'y suis bien arrivée...

A big thank you to You, I understood and I arrived there ...

Great news PERLOU! Now, let's rock and roll on Twitter!
 
goyacobol said:
I have been thinking about your frustration with the "odds" we are up against and I see what you are saying from a computer programmer/applications developer background point of view.

I never really thought I would ever get on Twitter and wouldn't have done it but I figured Laura was probably on to something or she wouldn't have suggested it.

I am not on Facebook but my wife is. Since tweeting for awhile now I can see that I am following as many forum members as I can and have picked up others not on the forum who share our concerns. For me it doesn't matter whether I am making the big "trends" or hitting some list that Twitter filters to block me. I do think that their efforts (software) will never be so perfect as to block the truth from anyone really searching for it.

Same here! I noticed my tweets/retweets get retweeted and it's so amazing to see that I actually do know people who are likeminded but we never touched upon the right topics. I'm trying to follow people from the forum too although I was initially quite concerned that maybe they don't want to be followed by strangers. Gosh, it was probably my self-importance doing the thinking because I doubt anyone cares that much who they are followed by and most people think that the more followers the better. And if someone does have an issue with that, well, they can consider themselves 'bookmarked' so I don't have to look for them next time I'm looking for ideas to share. So it's actually a compliment that what they share is useful to others :)

I don't think Twitter's algorithms are capable of entirely blocking content they don't want shared. If they were, we most likely wouldn't be able to find enough info to share, and there's plenty.

Also, I'm trying to share content I understand so I ended up spending most of my day yesterday researching info in other people's tweets.

goyacobol said:
It's like when the Cs said we need to get out of our "bubble". I feel like my "bubble" is bouncing into other "bubbles" on Twitter and the result is a merge of effort and ideas. By following other tweeters who express awareness of what is going on around the world you may influence one or more of their followers and even learn a thing or two from them. I have found so many new news sources by just looking at what others are tweeting I can't even keep up with all of it.

Who cares if we don't make the top 10 on the billboard charts. If we only connect to one more person with shared ideas and interests we are that much ahead I think. You can always check out what others are tweeting before you follow them.

It's really not that difficult once you get the hang of it and it might even be kind of fun.

What you wrote made me think of something, Gurdjieff said that if only 200 people reach the right level of development they can change the fate of humanity (do correct me if I remember that wrong). If that's true, getting even one person on that path is a massive success actually. Maybe even getting a lot of that 'plankton' on board helps in some way? That's how I understood the idea of 'the flap of butterfly wings'
Well, I wouldn't call myself a spiritually advanced person, in objective terms I'm probably more like plankton with spiritual aspirations :) But I'm definitely plankton that keeps pushing on to make sure I learn as much as I potentially can within the timeframes available to me. And I am grateful for the people who did the work / fact checking before me and exposed me to the truth. If I could now motivate even one person to check the facts and wake up to what's going on, I'd kind of pay it forward.
 
Zak, your above post is actually the best argument for networking I have read so far. Thanks for posting it here, I haven't read it before and it is packed not only with interesting viewpoints but also with insightful information. I've made a note of the James Surowiecki's book quoted in your post, it sounds like a useful reading.

zak said:
James Surowiecki's book, The Wisdom of Crowds, suggests that multiple viewpoints from individuals with a wide range of backgrounds, rather than the restricted viewpoints of experts or specialists, are crucial in reaching informed decisions on complex topics. Oakley comments that getting input from a broad variety of people is like getting input from a wide variety of devices such as microscopes, telescopes, litmus paper, tensile testors, ultrasound devices, scales, and so on.

This forum certainly is a collection of "multiple viewpoints from individuals with a wide range of backgrounds" and by sharing content on Twitter we pass the message on to all these backgrounds and environments we come from. Maybe the fact that we all share content from the same pool of knowledge with networks that come from the same background as us is important too. We are more likely to customise the message in a way that will make our own network more responsive to it since we are closer to their thinking patterns.

zak said:
The important factor here is that groups of individuals must get from here to there - here being the false personality created in us by the pathological external world, there being the merging with the higher self - by consciously choosing those factors that he will identify with.

This must be a group effort.

Yet another brilliantly put argument for networking and working together!
 
happyliza said:
So correct me if I am totally wrong on this but my take on this is that should the sun's companion commence the skittle alley cometary bombardment of earth. Then should the Earth be 'behind' the sun at time of the bombardments, the sun would take most of the flak and the Earth could be protected by the sun from these particular 'missiles'?

In that scenario, there may be a lower chance of being hit by physical objects, but what if objects hitting or flying close by the sun trigger large earth facing CMEs. Seems even an impact or flyby on the far side of the sun relative to earth could trigger an earth directed CME if I’m interpreting it right. Some comments on that and reference to a paper on 'Chain Reaction Flaring' in the video below, starting at 1.49. The paper referred to is here:http://arxiv.org/pdf/1603.04900v1.pdf

 
Ant22 said:
What you wrote made me think of something, Gurdjieff said that if only 200 people reach the right level of development they can change the fate of humanity (do correct me if I remember that wrong). If that's true, getting even one person on that path is a massive success actually. Maybe even getting a lot of that 'plankton' on board helps in some way? That's how I understood the idea of 'the flap of butterfly wings'
Well, I wouldn't call myself a spiritually advanced person, in objective terms I'm probably more like plankton with spiritual aspirations :) But I'm definitely plankton that keeps pushing on to make sure I learn as much as I potentially can within the timeframes available to me. And I am grateful for the people who did the work / fact checking before me and exposed me to the truth. If I could now motivate even one person to check the facts and wake up to what's going on, I'd kind of pay it forward.

For the last few years it was uncertain whether anyone at all was reading what I posted on Facebook except other Forum members who reposted articles or commented on them.

For the last several weeks now, mostly after the election, I have been noticing many more people liking, commenting and reposting articles I have been putting up and even commenting on how they like the ideas and thoughts I sometimes put in to 'introduce' the articles.

Many of these people I do not even know, but have asked to be "friends" with me for whatever reason and I have at some time accepted them into my friends list. Since at least some of them are now reposting articles I have contributed they are now going to more people I don't even know. Maybe some of them are also reposting these articles.

It looks like we are having some effect with our efforts. Something also appears to have changed as now people seem to be more receptive to what is actually going on, or maybe since there is nore 'social proof' they are now not so reluctant to share these ideas.
 
Richard S said:
Ant22 said:
What you wrote made me think of something, Gurdjieff said that if only 200 people reach the right level of development they can change the fate of humanity (do correct me if I remember that wrong). If that's true, getting even one person on that path is a massive success actually. Maybe even getting a lot of that 'plankton' on board helps in some way? That's how I understood the idea of 'the flap of butterfly wings'
Well, I wouldn't call myself a spiritually advanced person, in objective terms I'm probably more like plankton with spiritual aspirations :) But I'm definitely plankton that keeps pushing on to make sure I learn as much as I potentially can within the timeframes available to me. And I am grateful for the people who did the work / fact checking before me and exposed me to the truth. If I could now motivate even one person to check the facts and wake up to what's going on, I'd kind of pay it forward.

For the last few years it was uncertain whether anyone at all was reading what I posted on Facebook except other Forum members who reposted articles or commented on them.

For the last several weeks now, mostly after the election, I have been noticing many more people liking, commenting and reposting articles I have been putting up and even commenting on how they like the ideas and thoughts I sometimes put in to 'introduce' the articles.

Many of these people I do not even know, but have asked to be "friends" with me for whatever reason and I have at some time accepted them into my friends list. Since at least some of them are now reposting articles I have contributed they are now going to more people I don't even know. Maybe some of them are also reposting these articles.

It looks like we are having some effect with our efforts. Something also appears to have changed as now people seem to be more receptive to what is actually going on, or maybe since there is nore 'social proof' they are now not so reluctant to share these ideas.


The last paragraph of your post really caught my attention. I remember a couple of years ago it it was frowned upon to even discuss topics outside the mainstream circle of propaganda. Being called or calling someone a 'conspiracy theorist' was almost considered offensive.

It may be just my subjective experience but I get the impression that it isn't entirely the case anymore, in fact, it hasn't been the case for quite a few years. For example, mentioning the discrepancies (to put it diplomatically) behind 9/11 used to make people look at me funny, like there was something wrong with me since I even entertained that thought. I now mostly see an entirely different approach, along the lines of "Well, who cares, we won't know the truth anyway. Let's just hit the pub and talk about something less depressing" As if somewhere along the line things got so messed up that it cannot be entirely rejected anymore. At least not by everyone and in my opinion it is the people who on some level allow the possibility that the official propaganda is not all there is are the ones we are targeting with our 'social proof'. And it looks like you're quite successful on facebook with it!
 
Since we've been discussing the issue with people who don't have the intellectual capacity to accept the objective truth as well as issues with sharing facts that may be 'uncomfortable' to others, I thought this material from Lobaczewski's Political Ponerology may be worth sharing: http://ponerology.com/evil_2a.html

I read this book before but I came across this website today and I found the summary to be a useful refresher. So I thought I'd share it.

UNCONSCIOUS PROCESSES:
i) Blocking out conclusions: “We speak of blocking out conclusions if the inferential process was proper in principle … but becomes stymied by a preceding directive from the subconscious which considers [the conclusion] inexpedient or disturbing.” (Lobaczewski, 152)

A normal person has all the necessary tools and data to solve a problem or to logically reach a conclusion, but if the solution holds ideas contradictory to firmly held beliefs it is ‘blocked’ from conscious awareness. This type of denial can be extremely harmful, leading to intense feelings of tension and bitterness. For example, a wife may reject the conclusion that her husband is cheating on her, even when all the evidence logically points to this being the case (e.g., friends' testimony, strange phone calls from an unknown woman, lipstick on the collar). When a supporter of the current war in Iraq is confronted with the fact that nearly a million Iraqis have been killed as a result of his support, this fact may be subconsciously blocked.

ii) Selection of premises: Rather than affecting the acceptance of a disturbing conclusion, this process blocks out the piece or pieces of data that lead to the formation of a conclusion. When determining the morality of the occupation of Palestine, many reject that the Palestinians were ethnically cleansed in the Nabka of 1948. Accepting this datum would lead to a correct, albeit disturbing, conclusion regarding the morality of Israeli military occupation.

iii) Substitution of premises: This is the most complex process and consists of substituting other data for those already rejected, making for a more comfortable conclusion. This process is often effected collectively, usually in verbal communication. In the case of Palestine, some groups have convinced themselves that there is no such thing as a Palestinian: Palestine was empty when the Jews found it, they say. This could also be called a “self-lie”, or a lie that we consciously tell ourselves, and then come to believe as true.

Conversive thinking is highly contagious and acts a dangerous infection entry for truly pathological material. People who have lost their capacity for logical thought (and thus the ability to distinguish between truth and lies) are thus more prone to accepting the paralogic and paramorals of psychopaths and characteropaths. For example, observe the behavior of the "Christian Right" and their uncritical acceptance of war propaganda.

THE HYSTEROIDAL CYCLE
Here are the bare bones of the hysteroidal cycle with specific emphasis on the mental processes involved.

1. The search for truth reveals “inconvenient”, that is, morally embarrassing facts. For example, Christian slaveholders being reminded that holding slaves was not a very Christian activity; or otherwise unprejudiced Americans being informed that their tax dollars are being spent for racist goals, that is, to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians from the land coveted by Zionists. Hedonistic societies repress the fact that they profit on the suffering of others.

2. At first, when morally embarrassing facts are encountered, they are consciously avoided. For example, the subject is suddenly changed; or a discussion is tabled or concluded without going any further into the matter.

3. When the avoidance of morally embarrassing facts is done frequently enough, it ceases to be a conscious process and gets relegated to the subconscious; that is, it becomes a habit.

4. The habit of avoiding morally embarrassing facts is a contagious one. It becomes a socially accepted habit, the “in” thing to do. “The ‘very best people’ never discuss such things, and certainly not in public,” is a sentiment expressed innumerable times in the nineteenth century. Lobaczewski points out that Kaiser Wilhelm I had a brain trauma at birth, and numerous physical and psychological handicaps which were so completely concealed from the German people, that, for example, it is almost impossible to find a photograph of this emperor with his badly withered arm visible.

5. Reasoning to draw valid conclusions becomes impossible because of the gaps left by the suppressed “inconvenient” facts. The subconscious compensates by substituting morally less embarrassing “premises” so as to be able to continue to draw conclusions, although the conclusions now drawn are, necessarily, false. This is the chronic avoidance of the crux of the matter.

6. People grow perceptibly more egotistic, and the society as a whole more emotional and hysterical. There is a great deal of confusion about values and such societies grow to be seen as arrogant and hedonistic.

7. When the deviation from reality becomes great enough, the person or the society becomes pathological, and murder sprees or senseless world wars and bloody revolutions are in the offing.

In short, during good times, moral, intellectual and personality values devolve to the point where a society is ripe for manipulation by snake-charmers and con-men of Rasputin-like charisma. Individuals become emotionally volatile, egotistical, and intolerant of other cultures. The resulting suffering necessitate great mental and physical strength to fight for existence and human reason. Slowly, what has been lost is relearned. Difficult times give rise to the values necessary to conquer evil and produce better times.
 
Ant22 said:
Zak, your above post is actually the best argument for networking I have read so far. Thanks for posting it here, I haven't read it before and it is packed not only with interesting viewpoints but also with insightful information. I've made a note of the James Surowiecki's book quoted in your post, it sounds like a useful reading.
Laura:
James Surowiecki's book, The Wisdom of Crowds, suggests that multiple viewpoints from individuals with a wide range of backgrounds, rather than the restricted viewpoints of experts or specialists, are crucial in reaching informed decisions on complex topics. Oakley comments that getting input from a broad variety of people is like getting input from a wide variety of devices such as microscopes, telescopes, litmus paper, tensile testors, ultrasound devices, scales, and so on.


This forum certainly is a collection of "multiple viewpoints from individuals with a wide range of backgrounds" and by sharing content on Twitter we pass the message on to all these backgrounds and environments we come from. Maybe the fact that we all share content from the same pool of knowledge with networks that come from the same background as us is important too. We are more likely to customise the message in a way that will make our own network more responsive to it since we are closer to their thinking patterns.
Laura:
The important factor here is that groups of individuals must get from here to there - here being the false personality created in us by the pathological external world, there being the merging with the higher self - by consciously choosing those factors that he will identify with.

This must be a group effort.


Yet another brilliantly put argument for networking and working together!

We must give to Laura what is to Laura !

I 'm going to add some words of Laura following your excerpt of Lobaczewski Ant22:
Citation de: Evolutionary1 le juin 25, 2009, 01:34:57 am
Not to mention, I too, have a tendency to "make things my own" by collecting and combining portions of various belief systems in response to the often conflicting religious and philosophical interpretations of how things are.

That's all fine and good and we are all about individuality. In fact, Gurdjieff's description of the Esoteric Circle emphasizes individuality. But there is something about objectivity that just is what it is. Our society has been so influenced by Post Modernism and "I create my own reality" that individuality has come to mean little more than "If I wanna believe it, that makes it so." Few people stop to really consider the pathology of such a position.

In the same session quoted, the Cs also made the following remark:
Citation de: Cs
Q: (L) In other words, there's no hope for our planet or our species if normal human beings do not come together and get over these varied pathological belief systems and religions and "your truth" and "my truth" and all that sort of thing?

A: Yes. All of that was created and spread by pathological types under the influence of their hyperdimensional masters for the purpose of turning this planet into a "hell on earth" with them as the masters. They have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams. What is needed is for many people to begin to make direct connections with their higher centers. This has been done via the "work" up to now, but there are other methods to accelerate the process and obtain the needed assistance.

Some further considerations about "individuality" as a twist on reality were addressed in the thread about the May 30 session, but I'll include it here since it is appropriate (again) to the discussion.

Let me try to explain with a little help from psychologist John Schumaker who wrote a nifty little book entitled "Wings of Illusion" about the human tendency to hide from reality and make up beliefs in saviors and so on.

First, let's establish what reality is. Primary reality is reality as it would present itself if only information and data was available. This is raw data with no critical or analytical thinking. It is reality that is uncorrupted by analysis and thinking. It has not been modified, translated, or otherwise distorted.

Consider the squirrel. With no bias from higher order thinking, the reality of a squirrel is stable. Things are "as they are," so to say. An acorn is always something to eat or to stick in holes. The squirrel doesn't think about why it does that, but later in the winter, it turns out to be handy that all those acorns got stuck in holes.

In the absence of any rational, analytical mechanism to misinterpret acorns, squirrels never have acorn gods and never develop acorn phobias. When another squirrel dies, decomposes and disappears, the remaining squirrels have no ability to alter the empirical data ... the dead squirrel is gone. The reality of the squirrel does not permit a squirrel heaven or happy acorn ground of an afterlife. Because of its brain design, the squirrel is prevented from interpreting empirical data which is its only access to reality.

Human beings, on the other hand, possess something that can automatically banish them from reality. Human beings, in all cultures, construct realities for themselves that are not empirical. Under the influence of pathology, these realities are irrational and false. Socrates frequently began his speeches by imploring his listeners not to be angry with him if he tells them the truth. Socrates definitely knew that falsehoods and errors envelop the human mind.

What is shocking is the astonishing human capacity to tolerate beliefs that make fools of our brains. The surprising fact about human beings is that a belief does not have to be true in order to be believed. Most of the belief systems that generations of humans have lived by and died for are in fact patently false. Yet they were held with deep conviction and fervor. Fads and fallacies, delusions and fantasies, are so numerous in human history that they constitute the very fabric of our existence. Human culture is comprised of castles in the air that are products of our imagination and yearning in the face of a cold, cruel and forbidding reality.

The universality of the distortion of reality is a reaction against pathology. Finding order and meaning in life is a powerful human drive - the drive that can lead us to deep reality, to higher spheres. Reality, after pathology moved in and took it over, became so unpleasant, that this drive for order and meaning was subverted.

At the same time, the human being is quite capable of arriving at reliable knowledge. It is within our capabilities to process incoming information in order that our mental constructions correspond to reality.

Now, let's consider personal reality.

For the squirrel, the personal reality and the primary reality overlap exactly. This is because the squirrel doesn't have the ability to translate and then re-translate incoming information.

To a human being, on the other hand, acorns can be little bombs planted by aliens, or the source of powerful magic, or just an acorn. Many options are open to human beings that are not there for the squirrel. Why do humans avail themselves of these optional interpretations? All things being equal, it is done for purposes of social, psychological and physical survival.

The reality of human beings almost never overlaps completely with primary reality. It is "interpreted" for better or worse. This is true in normal as well as abnormal individuals. These interpretations can be delusional or they can be paths to DEEP reality. DEEP REALITY may, indeed, reveal that acorns are little bombs planted by aliens or the source of powerful magic (not probable, but all possibilities have to be kept open when assessing empirical observations). But one cannot GET TO that deep reality without first being able to face Primary Reality without flinching. One MUST have data and that data must not be skewed.

Human personal reality is FULL of errors when using primary reality, raw data, as the criterion.

The question is: why do humans do this?

The probable answer is that it is a response to emotionally terrifying facets of existence in this world.

The human brain has the ability to:

1) selectively perceive its environment,
2) selectively process information,
3) selectively store memories,
4) selectively disengage from already stored memories, and
5) selectively replace dissociated data with more "user-friendly " data.

These abilities empower human beings to regulate their reality. It's like a thermostat.

So, personal reality is defined by its deviation from primary reality even if it partially overlaps. Personal reality is Empirical reality + or - whatever empirically unjustified modifications have been made.

Ernest Rossi, an Ericksonian hypnotherapist, estimated that at least 80 percent of the information contained in the human mind is false. What makes this estimate remarkable is that Rossi was referring to the vast amount of error that is accumulated not as a result of any kind of hypnosis, but just during the normal waking life of the individual.

Remember, we are not talking about an animal with insufficient brain power to get things right. We are dealing with the creature with the most highly developed cerebral cortex known. Despite our cerebral talents, the mental world of the human being is most often at odds with the true nature of things. Not only that, but we will fight to preserve what is false. We are able to do this while, at the same time, apprehending SOME areas of our reality with astonishing precision!

Whatever the actual extent of our cognitive errors, we need to remember that the generation of these errors is a result of complex cerebral processes that work to safeguard the integrity of the entire nervous system. We aren't doing this "on purpose," so to say.

Next, there is the Cultural Reality. The reality of the individual is, to a great extent, the result of constructions that are fabricated and propagated by culture. Cultural reality is the constellation of externally delivered suggestions that are normalized on the basis of group endorsement.

One central function of any workable culture is to offer mental constructions of reality that are erroneous in relation to empirical reality. Culture is the central bank of cognitive distortion. Ernest Becker described culture as a "macro-lie".

Mental health is assessed by psychologists and psychiatrists as a person's ability to "perceive reality accurately." And, of course, they mean the socially accepted reality! In short, a considerable amount of insanity, in the sense of being out of touch with reality, is requisite to be diagnosed as mentally healthy! (This tells us a lot about the pathological state of psychology and psychiatry.)

Scholars throughout the ages have described empirical reality in terms so noxious that humans must somehow defend themselves from it. The average humans' distaste for the facts of life has been recorded since writing began.

Over the past decades, researchers have tested hypotheses that people do generate transformations or distortions of reality prophylactically. The results of these studies all point to the remarkably consistent tendencies of all human beings to self-deception, illusion and other biases about reality.

In short, it seems that reality is "too strong" for most humans to tolerate.

Several studies dealt with the "illusion of self-control". That is, the illusion that individuals possess environmental or situational control that they do not have in actuality. Several experiments have shown that the illusion of control is inversely related to depression. That is, depressed people are less adept than nondepressed people at generating such illusions. This particular category of illusion appears to insulate people from depression. One can reduce depression by imposing on reality "alterations" that are illusory.

Studies of self-consciousness, or self-insight and self-awareness show that people who rate high in these aspects are less inclined to resort to denial and self-deception. As it turns out, this self-consciousness correlates with negative emotional states. Increasing the apprehension of reality, both internal and external, can precipitate negative emotional responses.

The problem with reality is that it makes no sense. Terror is the normal emotional state for someone in full view and bearing the full psychic brunt of reality.

So, obviously, the ability to create and believe in illusions can make a person more functional.

But, here's the problem. When psychopaths use the human tendency - ability to dissociate to make them believe in illusions that are beneficial to the psychopaths - it always and inevitably is to the detriment of the person engaged in the illusion.

We are unquestionably creatures of genius, but we are engaged in actions, as a society, of such stupidity that our own survival is in jeopardy.

The question is, can we wake up in time?

Can we figure out what really works and the scientific basis of that practice? Can we marry science to mysticism?

That is the perspective of the Cs: PRIMARY REALITY combined with DEEP REALITY.

It takes some getting used to.

Citation de: Evolutionary1 le juin 25, 2009, 01:34:57 am
I suppose it is a belief that if I do not "reinterpret" something into my own language, I have not done the work necessary to "get it." I still think this is a useful approach to integrating knowledge, but I see how this belief has often led me to do things the hard, long way--re-doing what's already done well--when it was not necessary and I certainly want to conserve my energy!

It can also be an effect of pathological Post Modernist thinking. Two very useful books on this topic are Ernest Gellner's "The Psychotherapeutic Movement" and "Postemodernism, Reason and Religion." On the topic of how pathology has spearheaded the ideas that we all create our own reality, have a look at Psychopath Humanoids - Beyond Insanity.

Citation de: Evolutionary1 le juin 25, 2009, 01:34:57 am
Though I do my best to eliminate wishful thinking, having others shed light on one of my oldest patterns and beliefs has given me a lot to think about (as usual) and for that I am very grateful. Thank you for taking the time, all of you, to respond.
As the Cs said, again from the May 30 session:
Citation de: Cs Session
(L) Okay. What is the most essential thing for us to know about Paleochristianity, about what people need to know?

A: People need to know about pathology as you call it. In former times it was often referred to as demonic possession. In some cases, they were right.

Q: (L) But clearly not in all cases, and that needs to made absolutely clear because there are some people who are just sick.

A: Yes. Hyperdimensional influences are often the cause of pathology. This can be due to influences at this level of reality including dietary and nurture.

Q: (L) Okay, what else?

A: Just as detoxing the body can lead to abundant health, so can detoxing the mind and environment lead to abundant life and happiness for all. But as was the "fall", it must be a group decision and the differences and pathological blocks to objective understanding must be removed.

Q: (L) In other words, there's no hope for our planet or our species if normal human beings do not come together and get over these varied pathological belief systems and religions and "your truth" and "my truth" and all that sort of thing?

A: Yes. All of that was created and spread by pathological types under the influence of their hyperdimensional masters for the purpose of turning this planet into a "hell on earth" with them as the masters. They have succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.

I already mentioned John Keel's book "Operation Trojan Horse" - a useful read at this point for everyone. Just remember that STS/entropic forces are the source of division and confusion. Remember the Biblical story of the Tower of Babel... it wasn't a "good" god that created that confusion despite the perspective of Judaism which is a distillation of patrism which is anti-female and advocates the torture of children. Those are also core characteristics of psychopathology.

We need to identify all the threads and tendrils of pathology that wind their way through our thinking, strangling and twisting and distorting our vision and our emotions. It's difficult because it's been a part of our Western culture for over 2000 years. We cut our teeth on those ideas and it's hard to get outside of them. But it can be done. We can open our eyes and see, open our ears and hear, and have our hearts cleansed so that we can truly love and BE individuals who all see the same Truth.

« Modifié: juin 25, 2009, 12:26:25 pm par Laura »
 
Alada said:
happyliza said:
So correct me if I am totally wrong on this but my take on this is that should the sun's companion commence the skittle alley cometary bombardment of earth. Then should the Earth be 'behind' the sun at time of the bombardments, the sun would take most of the flak and the Earth could be protected by the sun from these particular 'missiles'?

In that scenario, there may be a lower chance of being hit by physical objects, but what if objects hitting or flying close by the sun trigger large earth facing CMEs. Seems even an impact or flyby on the far side of the sun relative to earth could trigger an earth directed CME if I’m interpreting it right. Some comments on that and reference to a paper on 'Chain Reaction Flaring' in the video below, starting at 1.49. The paper referred to is here:http://arxiv.org/pdf/1603.04900v1.pdf


Thank you so much for finding and sharing the video Alada. Of course, now it makes sense that it can have an even more detrimental effect! And any and all kinds of trajectories as a result. Most interesting and likely the actual scenario.
 
It is very helpful what is presented in this thread/forum. Especially for new members. I am humbled by realization how much work is done through the years by trail blazers to help others to understand the true horror of our humanity situation.
 

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