Session 11 August 2018

Mandrak said:
I think most people will not do anything special about information about the ancestors (as most people will not have problems with the beings from the mirror). Do you want to connect to ancestors and download information? Who has such a trained mind to do it? But if anyone knows, he probably also knows he must use a filter to avoid junk. If you focus on the morbid parts, you become morbid. Or maybe it's actually easy? Eg. Ratko Mladic in front of the camera of Belgrade television crew, during the biggest war crime in Europe after WW2: "Finally, after the rebellion of the Dahis, the time has come to take revenge on the Turks in this region." Was it the pressure of ancestors or collective consciousness or distorted collective memory?
The relationship with the ancestors has the potential to stimulate a circle of bloody revenges and injustices.
Or it is that this relationship can also be corrupted by the forces of evil (insertion into communication)?
Click to expand...

I think you've just written an example of exactly what is highlighted.
 
Thought I remind a few of you who seem to have some difficulties:

"In order to keep us obedient and meek and weak, the predators engaged themselves in a stupendous maneuver – stupendous, of course, from the point of view of a fighting strategist. A horrendous maneuver from the point of view of those who suffer it. They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind. The predators’ mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now. … “I know that even though you have never suffered hunger … you have food anxiety, which is none other than the anxiety of the predator who fears that any moment now its maneuver is going to be uncovered and food is going to be denied. Through the mind, which, after all, is their mind, the predators inject into the lives of human beings whatever is convenient for them. And they ensure, in this manner, a degree of security to act as a buffer against their fear.” (Castaneda 1998, 213–220)
 
Laura said:
Thought I remind a few of you who seem to have some difficulties:
"...The predators give us their mind...filled with the fear...” (Castaneda 1998, 213–220)
Click to expand...
I think everyone has difficulties but if many think it's all clear, and then I expect their experiences from contact with the ancestors.
I turned my attention to caution, not fear. If one looks at good and bad sides, it's a balance - no fear or jumping on something like on a strawberry pile. When someone drives a car, both gas and brakes must be available.
 
Sometimes I think that the "wave" is a big sum of petty tyrants and only those who are ready will overcome the difficulties. Many people is losing their balance and our societies are more and more intolerant and extremist.
How can you get ready for this huge petty tyrant? I believe that through "The Work" one can get ready because it helps to achieve some kind of balance through knowledge.

Laura said:
I think you should also consider your statement that you "hate it here" (more or less). There's a big difference between no longer "fitting" and "Hating the environment" in which you were planted to grow. I think you should always keep this in mind:

"Life is religion. Life experiences reflect how one interacts with God. Those who are asleep are those of little faith in terms of their interaction with the creation. Some people think that the world exists for them to overcome or ignore or shut out. For those individuals, the worlds will cease. They will become exactly what they give to life. They will become merely a dream in the "past." People who pay strict attention to objective reality right and left, become the reality of the "Future." "

It really is like walking a razor's edge to "enjoy the show" and to NOT get pulled into the craziness.

Castaneda made a remark that the warriors of the Conquest, in pitting themselves against the petty tyrants, did it partly for "enjoyment", that they "enjoyed themselves blue". I think that's the attitude we need to strive for. It's a question of Stalking. Below, I'm snagging some things from The Wave:

On the path of knowledge there are four steps. The first step is the decision to become apprentices. After the apprentices change their views about themselves and the world they take the second step and become warriors, which is to say, beings capable of the utmost discipline and control over themselves. The third step, after acquiring forbearance and timing, is to become men of knowledge. When men of knowledge learn to see they have taken the fourth step and have become seers.​
​
Control and discipline refer to an inner state. A warrior is self-oriented, not in a selfish way but in the sense of a total examination of the self. Forbearance and timing are not quite an inner state. They are in the domain of the man of knowledge. The idea of using a petty tyrant is not only for perfecting the warrior’s spirit, but also for enjoyment and happiness. Even the worst tyrants can bring delight, provided, of course, that one is a warrior. […]​
​
What usually exhausts us is the wear and tear on our self-importance. Any man who has an iota of pride is ripped apart by being made to feel worthless. To tune the spirit when someone is trampling on you is called control. Instead of feeling sorry for himself a warrior immediately goes to work mapping the petty tyrant’s strong points, his weaknesses, his quirks of behavior. To gather all this information while they are beating you up is called discipline. A perfect petty tyrant has no redeeming feature.​
​
Forbearance is to wait patiently – no rush, no anxiety – a simple, joyful holding back of what is due. A warrior knows that he is waiting and what he is waiting for. Right there is the great joy of warriorship. Timing is the quality that governs the release of all that is held back. Control, discipline, and forbearance are like a dam behind which everything is pooled. Timing is the gate in the dam.​
Forbearance means holding back with the spirit something that the warrior knows is rightfully due. It doesn’t mean that a warrior goes around plotting to do anybody mischief, or planning to settle past scores. Forbearance is something independent. As long as the warrior has control, discipline, and timing, forbearance assures giving whatever is due to whoever deserves it. (Castaneda: The Fire From Within)​

Don Juan has explained what he called a “three-phase progression.” This is the mode of approach to becoming a warrior who is free. This three-step program consists of:
1. Holding your own in facing petty tyrants.​
2. Facing the unknown with courage.​
3. Standing in the presence of the unknowable.​
​
“The average man’s reaction is to think that the order … should be reversed,” he went on. “A seer who can hold his own in the face of the unknown can certainly face petty tyrants. But that’s not so. What destroyed the superb seers of ancient times was that assumption. We know better now. We know that nothing can temper the spirit of a warrior as much as the challenge of dealing with impossible people in positions of power. Only under those conditions can warriors acquire the sobriety and serenity to stand the pressure of the unknowable.”​
​
“The seers of [the Conquest] couldn’t have found a better ground. The Spaniards were the petty tyrants who tested the seers’ skills to the limit; after dealing with the conquerors, the seers were capable of facing anything. They were the lucky ones. At that time there were petty tyrants everywhere.”​
When don Juan wrote about his own experience with the petty tyrant, and how the maneuver was directed by his benefactor, he made some rather amazing remarks:
“I’m sure that I could have done it myself, although I have always doubted that I would have carried it off with flair and joyfulness. My benefactor was simply enjoying the encounter by directing it. The idea of using a petty tyrant is not only for perfecting the warrior’s spirit, but also for enjoyment and happiness.”​
​
“How could anyone enjoy the monster you described?”​
“He was nothing in comparison to the real monsters that the new seers faced during the Conquest. By all indications those seers enjoyed themselves blue dealing with them. They proved that even the worst tyrants can bring delight, provided, of course, that one is a warrior.”​
Click to expand...


Laura said:
Thought I remind a few of you who seem to have some difficulties:

"In order to keep us obedient and meek and weak, the predators engaged themselves in a stupendous maneuver – stupendous, of course, from the point of view of a fighting strategist. A horrendous maneuver from the point of view of those who suffer it. They gave us their mind! Do you hear me? The predators give us their mind, which becomes our mind. The predators’ mind is baroque, contradictory, morose, filled with the fear of being discovered any minute now. … “I know that even though you have never suffered hunger … you have food anxiety, which is none other than the anxiety of the predator who fears that any moment now its maneuver is going to be uncovered and food is going to be denied. Through the mind, which, after all, is their mind, the predators inject into the lives of human beings whatever is convenient for them. And they ensure, in this manner, a degree of security to act as a buffer against their fear.” (Castaneda 1998, 213–220)
Click to expand...
 
Chacaflus said:
Sometimes I think that the "wave" is a big sum of petty tyrants and only those who are ready will overcome the difficulties. Many people is losing their balance and our societies are more and more intolerant and extremist.
How can you get ready for this huge petty tyrant? I believe that through "The Work" one can get ready because it helps to achieve some kind of balance through knowledge.
Click to expand...

I think this would be the sucking back phase of the wave. The contracting entropy before the flourishing release.
 
Thank you for this inspiring session, I didn't read all the comments as I've not had much time to spend on the forum lastly, but on just this last page, good and helpful reminders to hold on to.

I read it a couple of days ago just before visiting my grandfather. It had been years. I thought maybe I could learn more about my ancestors. Well, not much, but what I saw is my father and grandfather as they are, egoistic alcoholics who can't have a real discussion. And we also saw an old friend of my father who had kind of the same relationship with his wife than do my grandfather with hers. (Not sure if that's grammatically correct)
Some of those observations: Drinking alcohol to that level at that age to have such pathetic attitudes, being rude and belittling the closest person they have, hypocrisy, minimization, total irresponsibility... Definitely not the most inspiring. I find it hard to believe that good women end up with such destructive men.

I have been observing so much thinking errors in them and old friends that visited us this summer that's just incredible. Those books from Samenow really changed my perspective.
I don't see any other way to improve than to do the Work as recommended here. The more time passes (...) the more I realize the choice has been made. And choosing another way seems way too irrational, crazy, destructive and dangerous. I don't want it! I want to become responsible and improve. I don't want to resemble such inconsiderate and egoistic people.
I see the Work as hard but Life without it? Oh my, that's harder. I know I will persist, I'll be patient and compassionate, but I know where I belong.

There must be some ancestors to call upon, I took time to commune on my grandmother's grave this weekend, it's a vault in a cemetery with a lot of my ancestors which I don't know anything about, to help me find the strength to keep going, and that in itself was a really meditative experience.

What I do know is that it is always inspiring and boosting to come here and read you. Thank you.
 
A very interesting info about DNA and dimensions, but more importantly about ancestors. Worshipping ancestors is a big deal in contemporary russian esoteric teachings. Lots of people are focused on uncovering their "roots".
Personally I see my "family tree" as an actual big white glowing tree (spiritual vision). When I started communicating with my ancestors (in meditation) I saw the forest, and among it there was a bonfire and big dark stones round it, and on those stones I saw my ancestors (the ones that wanted to come) sitting, and one stone was empty for me. I was able to continue my conversation with them as long as the bonfire was burning. I think it was like an indicator for my psychic energy resources. Sharing because well... maybe my spiritual experience can be interesting to some.
 
(Ark) Yes. It's a mathematical question. One thing is to talk about gravity, and another thing is to do something about gravity. Apparently, geometry is important somehow for understanding gravity. We know our space is 3 dimensional. Well, why? Well, probably there is some reason. And then we know there are other dimensions. How many, we don't know...

A: Necessary for expression of thought in sequence.

Q: (Ark) I don't see any reason for that. It could be 2 or 1 or 4.

(L) Apparently, in order for it to be in sequence, maybe thoughts are something more than 2-dimensional things?
hello I would like to return to this subject, can we say that thinking in sequence mode may be related to the algebraic homology, which in a certain way constructs geometric "object" and allows to build n-dimensional objects.
Algebraic geometry has developed outside of Lie groups, it is above all an isomorphism between point spaces (affine space) with the ring of polynomials, at each point corresponds to the maximal ideal of the ring. . Outside the space of points is infinite ... hence the terms of the physicists are "finite" and the mathematicians "infinite":-P
 
Q: (Ark) Infinite dimensions. There are two kinds: countable like 1, 2, 3, 4 and so on, and uncountable like number of points on a line where you cannot count it.

A: Uncountable.
Please excuse me, but we can not compare numbers to sets, the countable and uncountable meaning is applied to sets, the so-called "infinite" number came from Cantor and his aleph which referred to the set of natural, it is indefinite a sequence of numbers that can not be repeated, and which equipotent with the integers N, this is the definition the notion of countable, there on the answer there is too much element that to be able to make a morphism between N and the set considered
 
Question on the notion of gravity, must we completely forget the teaching of general relativity? When we finished this course we were all surprised to see that there was a lot of circus for nothing, it seems that this theory is more the field of a "dynamic geometry". She says nothing about the very essence of gravity, the graviton we speak not even.
 
susy7 said:
(Ark) Yes. It's a mathematical question. One thing is to talk about gravity, and another thing is to do something about gravity. Apparently, geometry is important somehow for understanding gravity. We know our space is 3 dimensional. Well, why? Well, probably there is some reason. And then we know there are other dimensions. How many, we don't know...

A: Necessary for expression of thought in sequence.

Q: (Ark) I don't see any reason for that. It could be 2 or 1 or 4.

(L) Apparently, in order for it to be in sequence, maybe thoughts are something more than 2-dimensional things?
Click to expand...
hello I would like to return to this subject, can we say that thinking in sequence mode may be related to the algebraic homology, which in a certain way constructs geometric "object" and allows to build n-dimensional objects.
Algebraic geometry has developed outside of Lie groups, it is above all an isomorphism between point spaces (affine space) with the ring of polynomials, at each point corresponds to the maximal ideal of the ring. . Outside the space of points is infinite ... hence the terms of the physicists are "finite" and the mathematicians "infinite":-P
Click to expand...

Here's the mathy part:
Start with von Neumann's Set Theoretical definition of the Natural Numbers N:

0 = 0 , 1= { 0 } , 2 = { 0 , { 0 } } , ... , n + 1 = n u { n } .

in which each Natural Number n is a set of n elements.

By reflection through zero, extend the Natural Numbers N
to include the negative numbers, thus getting an Integral Domain,
the Ring Z.

Now, following the approach of Barry Simon,
consider a set Sn = { e1, e2, ... , en } of n elements.

Consider the set 2^Sn of all of its 2^n subsets,
with a product on 2^Sn defined
as the symmetric set difference XOR...

To go beyond set theory to Discrete Clifford Algebras,
enlarge 2^Sn to DClG(n)...

The discrete Group Algebra of discrete Clifford Group DClG(n)
is the discrete Clifford Algebra DCl(n).

Here is an explicit example showing how to assign
the elements of the Clifford Group
to the basis elements of the Clifford Algebra Cl(3)...

The associative Cl(3) product can be deformed
into the 1 x 1 Octonion nonassociative product...

Therefore any discrete Clifford Algebra DCl(p,q) of any size
can first be embedded in a larger one with p and q multiples of 8,
and then converted to one of the form DCl(0,p+q)
which then can be "factored" into

DCl(0,p+q) = DCl(0,8) x ... x DCl(0,8)

so that the fundamental building block of the real discrete
Clifford algebras is DCl(0,8)....
Click to expand...

This kind of hints at another reason for a 4-dim spacetime, division algebras. 4-dim quaternions are associative and 8-dim octonions are not. Non-associative would mean moving parentheses would change thought sequence which really means there is no thought sequence. The infinity from starting with natural numbers forms an 8-fold periodicity but you would perhaps need to get down to the associative 4-dim division algebra in order to sequence thinking.
 
susy7 said:
Q: (Ark) Infinite dimensions. There are two kinds: countable like 1, 2, 3, 4 and so on, and uncountable like number of points on a line where you cannot count it.

A: Uncountable.
Please excuse me, but we can not compare numbers to sets, the countable and uncountable meaning is applied to sets, the so-called "infinite" number came from Cantor and his aleph which referred to the set of natural, it is indefinite a sequence of numbers that can not be repeated, and which equipotent with the integers N, this is the definition the notion of countable, there on the answer there is too much element that to be able to make a morphism between N and the set considered
Click to expand...
You can get geometric/Clifford algebra from sets as in my previous post (the Cs by the way mentioned Geometric algebra which is a different concept than algebraic geometry). Getting uncountable kind of sounds like some kind of surreal number-like branching of geometric/Clifford algebra universe states (a Clifford algebra universe state being natural numbers/integers as in my previous post).
 
susy7 said:
Question on the notion of gravity, must we completely forget the teaching of general relativity? When we finished this course we were all surprised to see that there was a lot of circus for nothing, it seems that this theory is more the field of a "dynamic geometry". She says nothing about the very essence of gravity, the graviton we speak not even.
Click to expand...
Well if you convert Einstein's field equations into a group theory structure via the MacDowell-Mansouri action, you kind of get gravitons for free. Gravitons do make it easier to get to a geometric/Clifford algebra information-like structure.
 
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