Session 11 June 2011

[Al Today]

To answer this question It is necessary to define exactly :
WHAT IS A SOUL?
I can not be able to answer to this

I agree with anart for you to read the wave and adventure series. At the very least, ther are quite intriguing. In the meanwhile, there is an esoteric glossary available. This too is interesting. Here is the link about the word "soul"
http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=702&lsel=S

 

[Gawan]

Hello andreaB,

Frankly, this question of "Organic Portals: The Other Race" does not convince me !!!
[...]

This explanation is for me more logic
I do not believe that could exist "Organic Portals" without souls , I think that this O.P. have only less grown souls so that they are for most very less empathetic.
Every being, every thing, is only a part of the ONE, the most empathetic of all.

it is not about believing or not believing, it is through the experiment Laura is conducting since many years and with that much data has been collected, in esoteric knowledge (Mouravieff: Gnosis) for example and others.

Have you read the topic or eventually the chapter itself about "organic portals" in the wave series (should be in wave book IV: through a glass darkly)?

Podcast transcript about that topic

Organic Portals: The Other Race: forum topic

Organic Portals: The Other Race

 

[whitecoast]

If all is possible...

Can advanced beings of "somethings" with science beyond our comprehension, develop bioengineered so-called "living" mechanisms built of flesh, bones, and chemistry be NOT able to contain a "soul"?

edit- spelling...

It depends on how elastic you use the word soul. I think a lifeform must contain a physical center or rudimentary etheric/subtle body by definition to animate it and govern the growth and maintenance of the tissues, organ systems, etc. It would need more advanced centers for things like complex emotions, abstract thought, Etc. Either that or be able to use those centers belonging to beings that run or control them like puppets. Themes no such thing as an artificial mind, imo. I don't think such a biological machine-being would be necessarily individuated the way developed humans are though, since I get the impression those parts would be recycled from being that have been consumed by said advanced being you spoke of.

 

[Al Today]

It depends on how elastic you use the word soul. I think a lifeform must contain a physical center or rudimentary etheric/subtle body by definition to animate it and govern the growth and maintenance of the tissues, organ systems, etc. It would need more advanced centers for things like complex emotions, abstract thought, Etc. Either that or be able to use those centers belonging to beings that run or control them like puppets. Themes no such thing as an artificial mind, imo. I don't think such a biological machine-being would be necessarily individuated the way developed humans are though, since I get the impression those parts would be recycled from being that have been consumed by said advanced being you spoke of.

First off, I do not "know" the firm definition of word soul. Methinks they can be of different stages within progression or degradation. There may be group souls, individuated souls, fragmented souls, and what else? I dunno. More importantly to this discussion, I cannot say if thought has a requirement of having a "soul".

In our age, computer systems are advancing rapidly... The ones that we know of. Talk of artificial intelligence and therefor lending to independent deductions. Independent logic can result in decisions being performed. Neural networks, rule based programming, code generators, systems that modify their code based upon situational "experience"... Machines that "think", perhaps? Unless perhaps once a machine begins to think, begin to develop a "soul"?

Therefor I ask, why cannot a biological "machine" such as we inhabit, perhaps engineered by a science beyond our comprehension, not "think", on it's own, like a computer?

Maybe I am wrong. But, two things I've learned is:
1) Never say never.
and
2) Anything is possible.

I had a friend who was a confident atheist. He believed that when we die, that's it. VOID. I used to tell him that when I die and there is NOTHING, I'm gonna be pissed...
Then we would laugh.

 

[whitecoast]

For what it'a worth, the C's make reference to computers in the future having souls. I think this because processing power, particularly with the advent of quantum computing, will graduate to the level of being equivalent to a mental center. At the moment our electronics do not mimic the quantum nature of thought and so do not accrue consciousness or impressions analogous to thought. like I said before, there is no such thing as an artificial mind, meaning any genuine mimicry of an authentic souled component, such as life or thought or emotions, will posess the same necessary subtle/ethic components necessary for the mimic's proper functioning as the original.

 

[anart]

For what it'a worth, the C's make reference to computers in the future having souls. I think this because processing power, particularly with the advent of quantum computing, will graduate to the level of being equivalent to a mental center. At the moment our electronics do not mimic the quantum nature of thought and so do not accrue consciousness or impressions analogous to thought. like I said before, there is no such thing as an artificial mind, meaning any genuine mimicry of an authentic souled component, such as life or thought or emotions, will posess the same necessary subtle/ethic components necessary for the mimic's proper functioning as the original.

Regarding the OP question, the crux is soul individuation versus lack of soul individuation - not a 'soul imprint' per se. What you are calling an 'etheric/subtle body' may or may not be the same thing as a 'soul imprint'.

 

[dannybananny]

If all is possible...

Can advanced beings of "somethings" with science beyond our comprehension, develop bioengineered so-called "living" mechanisms built of flesh, bones, and chemistry be NOT able to contain a "soul"?

C's said that during the wars 4D STS pulls out soldiers that are going to die, and clone their bodies and put their souls back in the new bodies, but that they also can do that with bodies that died long ago and their soul left that body, so they are completely controllable and don't really have a what we could call a soul, but they also said that nothing is soulless and that even Grays have some sort of soul trace and said that computers are today close to that stage of attracting those energies like when Atlanteans built pyramids that attracted them and then attacked their creators.

 

[whitecoast]

For what it'a worth, the C's make reference to computers in the future having souls. I think this because processing power, particularly with the advent of quantum computing, will graduate to the level of being equivalent to a mental center. At the moment our electronics do not mimic the quantum nature of thought and so do not accrue consciousness or impressions analogous to thought. like I said before, there is no such thing as an artificial mind, meaning any genuine mimicry of an authentic souled component, such as life or thought or emotions, will posess the same necessary subtle/ethic components necessary for the mimic's proper functioning as the original.

Regarding the OP question, the crux is soul individuation versus lack of soul individuation - not a 'soul imprint' per se. What you are calling an 'etheric/subtle body' may or may not be the same thing as a 'soul imprint'.

I think I missed something, could you state what the "OP question" is, anart? If it is what AI Today asked, I think I answered it to his satisfaction. To maybe clarify a bit, I think such an constructed being from scratch would be transient or nonindividuated, if Mr gurdjieff's notions about individuation never being automatic are any indication... on top of the fact that the being would probably be built from the parts of other consumed beings.

 

[Psalehesost]

I think I missed something, could you state what the "OP question" is, anart?

The thread Organic Portals: The Other Race might help explain it.

 

[andreaB]

answer to anart

It would be helpful if you could give sources for this 'esoteric source' you are quoting. It sounds like a rather unlikely scenario (to say the least) based on all the information we have gathered to date.

The esoteric source who I refer come from an italian medium dead in the eighty years who lived in Florence : Roberto Setti
There are some books that resume the teaching of "spiritual master" who the medium R. Setti gave his voice, but I think they are available only in italian language.
Look at : http://www.cerchiofirenze77.org/Libri/Libri%2077.html
I refer in particular at : "OLTRE L'ILLUSIONE Dalle apparenze alla realtà " (translatable as: "BEYOND THE ILLUSION From the appearance to the reality"

There are very pleasant reading in particular about philosophical-views, however in each issue LOGIC reign in these teachings.
They propose a very complex view of reality quite different from that coming out from the C's but not totally in contrast with it.

answering to Legolas who suggest me some lectures:
I have read most of the material content there,
I reassert my point of view:
I do not believe that could exist "Organic Portals" without souls , I think that this O.P. have only less grown souls
This is in particular in connection of the TWO RACES each of about 50% population.

About bodies without soul as Al today define:
"develop bioengineered so-called "living" mechanisms built of flesh, bones, and chemistry "
I have no replay because my view of reality is different and I can not explain myself in few words.

I appreciate very much the work of Laura and have read most (quite all) of the wave series because it is full of greatly valuable insight, this do not means that I have to agree with every issue.

 

[EmeraldHope]

AndreaB

I reassert my point of view:
I do not believe that could exist "Organic Portals" without souls , I think that this O.P. have only less grown souls
This is in particular in connection of the TWO RACES each of about 50% population.

Per our discussions here, organic portals are not said to have no souls at all- more accurate would be that they belong to a group soul, with no access to the higher centers nor capable of individuation. So In your statement that you believe that they have less grown souls, this is compatable with our view here,I think.

Perhaps it would help if you re-read the threads Legolas gave in his post.

 

[Bluestar]

Hahhh, finished reading all the posts here in this thread.

My heart felt thanks to all at the chateau for the hard work you all do. And then to be bombarded with extra "stuff" to deal with.

A: Yes, you just hit upon an important point: The genetic body tends toward the animal nature. Note that we said "tends". In those of the "fanatical" vegetarian nature, this tendency is very strong. In fact, you could even say that there is strong identification with the genetic body and all it is connected to energetically.

For me the term fanatical is a very important point. Fanaticism any any form is to say the least is unhealthy and pathological. Anger seems to be a tool for folks that are fanatical, even sports fans. They can not negotiate the emotions they experience when facts are given to prove their belief incorrect and they even resort to violence. Case in point how a city whose sports team losses a game, they form mobs of people who destroy things in their path. Or right-to-lifers who will protest abortion, but bomb a clinic where abortions are performed. No rhyme or reason to their actions. No looking at the domino effect of the things they do. There is a huge contradictory momentum that follows any form of fanaticism.

(Psyche) And we're exposed to too much toxicity these days.

This has been on my mind for quite some time. Had a discussion with a friend the other day and we talked about how heavy metals in water and the soil can not be escaped from the food chain, even organic, free range foods. So I rely heavily on the fact the eatting as best we can and keeping the body as detoxified as possible is our only solution. For me food has become combersome. Many times I have thought that I would be better off if I did not need to eat, but know that my body needs nourishment.

All I can say to us all is keep, keeping on. I do feel that the network is the only solution we have to become better us'. That the network may be our Athena with our main center being Laura and her work.

Thanks again!

 

[Leo40]

The idea of "soul" can be approached from the concept of "greater self"
that wants to gain knowledge and experience by incarnating "parts" of it in
numerous times and spaces. The important thing to consider is the fact
that a suitable "body" needs to exist (matching of "soul purpose" with the
genetic material.
(I put words in " " to indicate that I don't know more precise terms.)
Imho the OP is not a suitable vehicle for this purpose.
The OP appears to be a transitional stage in a natural evolution.

 

[Sirius]

There is a crucial information given in the following session excerpt:

Q: (L) Well, if the Grays are cybergenetic probes of the Lizard Beings, and, in effect soulless, does this
mean that some of the Lizard beings are also STO?
A: Well, first, no being that is given intelligence to think on its own is, in fact, comepletely soul-less.
It does have some soul imprint. Or what could be loosely referred to as soul imprint. This may be a
collection of psychic energies that are available in the general vicinity. And this is stretching somewhat
so that you can understand the basic ideas, even though in reality it is all far more complex than that.
But, in any case, there is really no such thing as being completely soul-less, whether it be a natural
intelligence or an artificially constructed intelligence. And, one of the very most interesting things about
that from your perspective, is that your technology on 3rd density, which we might add, has been aided
somewhat by interactions with those that you might refer to as "aliens," is now reaching a level whereby
the artificially created intelligences can, in fact, begin to develop, or attract some soul imprint energy. If
you follow what we are saying. For example: your computers, which are now on the verge of reaching the
level whereby they can think by themselves, will begin to develop faint soul imprint.

And someone here mentioned this robots / reanimation / duplication thing. The following excerpt is from session of October 21, 1995:

Q: (L) Do they ever pick up dead bodies, you know, right after, and reanimate them?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) When they pick them up and reanimate them, do they reanimate them with the souls that left
them? Do they like, catch the soul and put it back in?
A: No.
Q: (L) When they reanimate them, do they reanimate them with an alien soul?
A: Multiple possibilities.
Q: (L) If they reanimate them, is it possible to reanimate them with no soul?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) OK, when they reanimate them with no soul, do they have kind of like a zombie-like situation?
A: No.
Q: (L) Well, could you give us a little more information on this particular aspect? If they reanimate them
with no soul, what is the animating force or energy?
A: Indistinguishable from other humans.
Q: (L) They’re indistinguishable from other humans. (LM) How is that possible?
A: Technology makes all things possible!!!
Q: (L) Of course, you are talking about 4th density technology?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) What form of... Now, a reanimated corpse that has been animated by infusion of some form of an
energy pattern... (SV) Is it 'chi' energy, maybe? (L) What if the reanimated corpse dies again, I mean,
you have got to understand here, that we perceive the soul as being the animating force of the physical
body, and when the soul is gone, the body dies. Is that correct?
A: You are making assumptions based on limited data.
Q: (L) OK, well, will you expand my database by telling me how a corpse can be reanimated if not done
by a... if not with a soul?
A: Complex technology, using electronic biogeneration frequency matching, combined with extremely high
frequency radio beacon transmitters for tracking and control of all functions, including thought pattern
mimic and emotional frequency vibrational rate modulation!!!!
Q: (L) If they’re doing this, does it make the physical body...
A: Yes.
Q: (L) The blood, the heartbeat and everything...
A: All functions, including cellular, duplicated.
Q: (SV) What about the aura? (L) Would a being such as this still have an aura?
A: Projected.
Q: (L) OK, that would be projected, along with all of the frequencies, and everything else. Now... (SV)
Are there a lot of dead people walking around?
A: This is method used for subjects discussed in "Matrix Material" instead of "Robots", as suggested.
Q: (L) Is there any way that a normal person would be able to identify such a being?
A: No.

---
Just a short question: What does "pulling a Gurdjieff" mean? Some figure of speech?

 

[Beau]

Just a short question: What does "pulling a Gurdjieff" mean? Some figure of speech?

Yes, to put it another way, you could say "doing something that Gurdjieff would do."