Session 11 June 2011

[Cosmos]

I post a 2nd time because of a genuine subject, I wish to discuss.

why is it a genuine, because you say so ?

I should say that I don't wanted to point out that yamez question was not a reasonable question.
I wanted to point out his fashion to ask it. the reasons that may lies behind his double posting and the "I think so, so please discuss, because I say so" attitude I received from viewing his post.

Edit: spelling

 

[NewOrleans]

Maybe you're right and I was very wrong to interfere. My apologies. I don't wish to add "noise" to the essence of this thread so I will bow out and not comment again. Best wishes, Pashalis.

 

[Peam]

Perhaps Yamez, like every newbie, is a bit impatient to get feedback - I know I foolishly was - but it's not a crime. Complaining, Curious_Richard? I guess we read nuance differently. Getting used to the pace and thoughtfulness of this Forum takes a bit of time. But I don't think this guy was demanding in a rude way.

Fwiw, a quick look at Yamez' stats shows he registered 5 years ago, so he isn't exactly a newbie.

 

[wmu9]

Laura dies and all else is destroyed. Elephant in the Living Room. Is I how I see it.

We've seen this movie before. Laura isn't destroyed before the end of the film, or else she couldn't be part of the C's we meet in the beginning of the film.

 

[andreaB]

The answare of the Cs about vegetarian:

A: Most vegetarians are such, believing that it is more "spiritual". This is a belief that eating a certain way will change the nature or destiny or tendencies of the soul. This is as effective as confessing one's sins to a priest and doing penance and then sinning again. Besides, as you have noted, the vegetarians you have encountered have been singularly "unspiritual".

There are other reason to not eat meat:

1) in the overpopulated Earth there is not possibility of a diet with most meat, because for producing a kilo of meat it is used 3 kilos of cereals
2) The actual way of breeding cattle is a torture for the animals.

More, I do not eat meat "not for a result" not to feel "more spiritual" but for a more complex reason that has, first, a direct connection with the 2 points over-written and for a phrase that I read same time ago in the book : "Conversation with God" in answering to the question: "what is the pourpose to live as a men (or women)" and the answer struck me : << To define Who you want to be.>>
Perhaps "do not eat meat" is not the best for my body but I, not some organization, I decided: "To Not eat meat" and in doing that choosing I was not much worried about the result of that choosing in the long-run

 

[Al Today]

in retrospect I think the subject of OPs is related only tangentally to AIToday and I's discussion, though he could correct me on this. Plus I already know about OPs :P

I do think Organic Portals can have a "lesser" version of a "soul". They have their purpose, as does everything. I did not intend to discuss these OPs...

I also understand the statements you have made. Yes, I also believe an artificial intelligence can attract some type of soul imprint. I also think the computer is a type of evolution over "time" where an attraction eventually occurs.

Evidently our 3D bodies are somehow matched to a soul possibly via DNA, and most likely other criteria I do not fully understand. And yes, throughout the "naturally" occurring universe I do believe some form of consciousness is in all.
Question: Is a 3D body able to be born with NO "soul" matching criteria?

The point I was tying to make is that possibly, a bio-machine (3D Humanoid type) can be animated with an advanced technology less a soul. Nothing more, nothing less. If I am wrong, i can accept that.

edit: spelling/clarity/add a question

 

[Approaching Infinity]

There are other reason to not eat meat:

1) in the overpopulated Earth there is not possibility of a diet with most meat, because for producing a kilo of meat it is used 3 kilos of cereals
2) The actual way of breeding cattle is a torture for the animals.

andreaB, I really recommend that you read Lierre Keith's book, The Vegetarian Myth. She deals with these two points in detail. For one, in an overpopulated Earth, feeding cattle grains is suicide. Cows are designed to eat grass, plain and simple. Agriculture has allowed our population to vastly overtake this planet. But in any sane world, the solution to a problem is not to continue to do the very thing that caused the problem. Continuing to grow grains because we're overpopulated is like continuing to take heroin because we don't want to go through withdrawal. If this planet doesn't go down the tubes, what it needs is to have its population drastically reduced. This COULD happen in a humane way, e.g., all the women of the world could decide not to have children for a couple generations. But that is extremely unlikely. Instead, Mother Nature is more likely to do it her own way.

Agriculture is literally killing this planet, it's topsoil, animals and humans. As for torture, agriculture isn't just torture for all sorts of species, it's genocide.

More, I do not eat meat "not for a result" not to feel "more spiritual" but for a more complex reason that has, first, a direct connection with the 2 points over-written and for a phrase that I read same time ago in the book : "Conversation with God" in answering to the question: "what is the pourpose to live as a men (or women)" and the answer struck me : << To define Who you want to be.>>
Perhaps "do not eat meat" is not the best for my body but I, not some organization, I decided: "To Not eat meat" and in doing that choosing I was not much worried about the result of that choosing in the long-run

But what if choosing not to eat meat has the effect of killing your body and numbing your mind to the point where you cease to be able to "define who you want to be"? As Gurdjieff wrote, the purpose of living as men and women is quite simple: we are food. We consume other beings, and are consumed in turn. It's life. To think one can step out of that circle may be well-intentioned, but it is also the height of hubris. As the Cs say: an illusion.

 

[Ares]

The answare of the Cs about vegetarian:

A: Most vegetarians are such, believing that it is more "spiritual". This is a belief that eating a certain way will change the nature or destiny or tendencies of the soul. This is as effective as confessing one's sins to a priest and doing penance and then sinning again. Besides, as you have noted, the vegetarians you have encountered have been singularly "unspiritual".

There are other reason to not eat meat:

1) in the overpopulated Earth there is not possibility of a diet with most meat, because for producing a kilo of meat it is used 3 kilos of cereals
2) The actual way of breeding cattle is a torture for the animals.

More, I do not eat meat "not for a result" not to feel "more spiritual" but for a more complex reason that has, first, a direct connection with the 2 points over-written and for a phrase that I read same time ago in the book : "Conversation with God" in answering to the question: "what is the pourpose to live as a men (or women)" and the answer struck me : << To define Who you want to be.>>
Perhaps "do not eat meat" is not the best for my body but I, not some organization, I decided: "To Not eat meat" and in doing that choosing I was not much worried about the result of that choosing in the long-run

andreaB, I know how you feel - this is how I felt too for sometime (and even became a vegetarian for a while - unsuccessfully I might add).

I invite you to read and learn more about this topic (an open mind works wonders) both in the forums and on the web (start with SOTT)

here are some links to start off:
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/221794-Why-I-Stopped-Being-a-Vegetarian
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/215012-I-Was-Wrong-About-Veganism-Let-Them-Eat-Meat-But-Farm-It-Properly
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/200667-Ancestors-Carnivorous-Habits-Made-Us-Outlive-Apes
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/205379-Eating-Less-Meat-and-Dairy-Products-Won-t-Have-Major-Impact-on-Global-Warming
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/230289-Does-Meat-Rot-In-Your-Colon-No-What-Does-Beans-Grains-and-Vegetables-
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,20771.0.html
Also read the book 'the vegetarian myth' - I've just started reading it (there is a thread on the forum on this)

cheers :)

 

[mcb]

...There are other reason to not eat meat:

1) in the overpopulated Earth there is not possibility of a diet with most meat, because for producing a kilo of meat it is used 3 kilos of cereals
2) The actual way of breeding cattle is a torture for the animals...

You are absolutely right. I don't eat meat either if the animal was force-fed grain that it is unequipped to digest (and therefore sick and dying when slaughtered), or that has otherwise been tortured.

There is also the question of what causes overpopulation, but I don't want to go there in this thread.

 

[Leo40]

andreaB:

Here are two quotes from your recent postings:

"I do not believe that could exist "Organic Portals" without souls , I think that this O.P. have only less grown souls
This is in particular in connection of the TWO RACES each of about 50% population."

"Perhaps "do not eat meat" is not the best for my body but I, not some organization, I decided: "To Not eat meat" and in doing that choosing I was not much worried about the result of that choosing in the long-run."

I am puzzled by your attitude and your approach to seeking the truth. By now you should be aware
that this forum is not for believers. You certainly have the free choice to believe what you will.

"There are very pleasant reading in particular about philosophical-views, however in each issue LOGIC reign in these teachings.
They propose a very complex view of reality quite different from that coming out from the C's but not totally in contrast with it."

The above quote shows that you prefer to pick and chose what you like. This also seems odd to me.
Often we don't like the truth. Please understand that these are honest questions but my perceptions may
be wrong.

 

[Roger]

Hello Leo 40, Yes I believe that there are all different levels of Organic Portals out in the population, and as the Cs have said at the turn of the century (2000) Sessions, 50% plus are under direct STS control...Just see whats going on Worldwide. How else could so few control so many...In my time and yours, we have seen changes that would never have happened 40/50 years ago. Good is now bad and vice verse. Really feel sorry for the youth of this World, they don't know what they are missing. But as said by the Cs along with many Religious Books, even some historic documents (like "The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire), all civilization's eventually come to an end, some faster than others. Glad the Forum is around to tide over the other 50% for a proper balance.

 

[findit]

I was rereading part of The Wave Book 7, the chapter titled "It's Just Economics" and I have to say that I have struggled in the past to understand what Gurdjieff was talking about in that passage in the chapter. After the recent discussions on Evolution, Vegitarianism, Economic struggles, and 4th Density, and the statement in this session regarding balance, this passage came in loud and clear for me. It's worth it to read this chapter over in light of the recent talk and discussions in the forum.

 

[cubbex]

Hello Leo 40, Yes I believe that there are all different levels of Organic Portals out in the population, and as the Cs have said at the turn of the century (2000) Sessions, 50% plus are under direct STS control...Just see whats going on Worldwide. How else could so few control so many...In my time and yours, we have seen changes that would never have happened 40/50 years ago. Good is now bad and vice verse. Really feel sorry for the youth of this World, they don't know what they are missing. But as said by the Cs along with many Religious Books, even some historic documents (like "The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire), all civilization's eventually come to an end, some faster than others. Glad the Forum is around to tide over the other 50% for a proper balance.

Which levels?

 

[andreaB]

answering to Leo40:

andreaB:
The above quote shows that you prefer to pick and chose what you like. This also seems odd to me.
Often we don't like the truth.

Dear Leo "free will" means that.
I have to confront with a very lot of things: other's statements; different ways to see the world; etc etc.
Always I, have the responsibility to decide, not others, not the Cs, not the Master who spoke in Florence.

About " Often we don't like the truth"
I am in search of the TRUTH, but who tell me which one between the multitude of truths, one truth for each being.
Often, very often, I pray for Knowing the TRUTH, but in the last is my responsibility to choose.

Answering, to moksha:
Tank you for the references, I will try to read them

 

[Laura]

Dear Leo "free will" means that.
I have to confront with a very lot of things: other's statements; different ways to see the world; etc etc.
Always I, have the responsibility to decide, not others, not the Cs, not the Master who spoke in Florence.

About " Often we don't like the truth"
I am in search of the TRUTH, but who tell me which one between the multitude of truths, one truth for each being.
Often, very often, I pray for Knowing the TRUTH, but in the last is my responsibility to choose.

That's it in a nutshell. Though you MIGHT want to re-read the Forum Guidelines to make sure that you fit this particular forum.
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=9553.msg69187#msg69187

We don't think we have the absolute truth, just high probabilities, and the method for arriving at those probabilities might be a bit different than what you consider right for you.