Session 13 December 2014

[miguel angel]

Yet another great session. Thanks for sharing. :)

 

[dant]

Thank you for this session!
More lessons to contemplate, and thank you!

 

[Laura]

Thanks for this informative session.

A: Keep in mind that you have dealt with things the same way for so long that there are very deep tracks in the brain. At the same time, there are circuits that have been little or never used. This must change!!! Super efforts are needed or you will deteriorate rapidly!

...

A: Entropy awaits if you do not take advantage of the present opportunities.

I wonder what these things actually mean. In what way exactly could a person who got considerably far in knowing himself deteriorate rapidly.
I am basing my comment on the following thread started by Parallel: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,26801.0.html
If he is the same person of course. His comments display good insight into his own programs.

I think that what we are encountering in these situations is the disparity between knowledge and being and Gurdjieff described it.

In almost every one of his lectures G. reverted to a theme which he evidently considered to be of the utmost importance but which was very difficult for many of us to assimilate.

"There are," he said, "two lines along which man's development proceeds, the line of knowledge and the line of being. In right evolution the line of knowledge and the line of being develop simultaneously, parallel to, and helping one another. But if the line of knowledge gets too far ahead of the line of being, or if the line of being gets ahead of the line of knowledge, man's development goes wrong, and sooner or later it must come to a standstill.

"People understand what 'knowledge' means. And they understand the possibility of different levels of knowledge. They understand that knowledge may be lesser or greater, that is to say, of one quality or of another quality. But they do not understand this in relation to 'being.' 'Being,' for them, means simply 'existence' to which is opposed just 'non-existence.' They do not understand that being or existence may be of very different levels and categories. Take for instance the being of a mineral and of a plant. It is a different being. The being of a plant and of an animal is again a different being. The being of an animal and of a man is a different being. But the being of two people can differ from one another more than the being of a mineral and of an animal. This is exactly what people do not understand. And they do not understand that knowledge depends on being. Not only do they not understand this latter but they definitely do not wish to understand it. And especially in Western culture it is considered that a man may possess great knowledge, for example he may be an able scientist, make discoveries, advance science, and at the same time he may be, and has the right to be, a petty, egoistic, caviling, mean, envious, vain, naive, and absent-minded man. It seems to be considered here that a professor must always forget his umbrella everywhere.

"And yet it is his being. And people think that his knowledge does not depend on his being. People of Western culture put great value on the level of a man's knowledge but they do not value the level of a man's being and are not ashamed of the low level of their own being. They do not even understand what it means. And they do not understand that a man's knowledge depends on the level of his being.

"If knowledge gets far ahead of being, it becomes theoretical and abstract and inapplicable to life, or actually harmful, because instead of serving life and helping people the better to struggle with the difficulties they meet, it begins to complicate man's life, brings new difficulties into it, new troubles and calamities which were not there before.

"The reason for this is that knowledge which is not in accordance with being cannot be large enough for, or sufficiently suited to, man's real needs. It will always be a knowledge of one thing together with ignorance of another thing; a knowledge of the detail without a knowledge of the whole; a knowledge of the form without a knowledge of the essence.

"Such preponderance of knowledge over being is observed in present-day culture. The idea of the value and importance of the level of being is completely forgotten. And it is forgotten that the level of knowledge is determined by the level of being. Actually at a given level of being the possibilities of knowledge are limited and finite. Within the limits of a given being the quality of knowledge cannot be changed, and the accumulation of information of one and the same nature, within already known limits, alone is possible. A change in the nature of knowledge is possible only with a change in the nature of being.

"Taken in itself, a man's being has many different sides. The most characteristic feature of a modem man is the absence of unity in him and, further, the absence in him of even traces of those properties which he most likes to ascribe to himself, that is, 'lucid consciousness,' 'free will,' a 'permanent ego or I,' and the 'ability to do.' It may surprise you if I say that the chief feature of a modem man's being which explains everything else that is lacking in him is sleep.

"A modern man lives in sleep, in sleep he is born and in sleep he dies. About sleep, its significance and its role in life, we will speak later. But at present just think of one thing, what knowledge can a sleeping man have? And if you think about it and at the same time remember that sleep is the chief feature of our being, it will at once become clear to you that if a man really wants knowledge, he must first of all think about how to wake, that is, about how to change his being.

"Exteriorly man's being has many different sides: activity or passivity; truthfulness or a tendency to lie; sincerity or insincerity; courage, cowardice; self-control, profligacy; irritability, egoism, readiness for self-sacrifice, pride, vanity, conceit, industry, laziness, morality, depravity; all these and much more besides make up the being of man.

"But all this is entirely mechanical in man. If he lies it means that he cannot help lying. If he tells the truth it means that he cannot help telling the truth, and so it is with everything. Everything happens, a man can do nothing either in himself or outside himself.

"But of course there are limits and bounds. Generally speaking, the being of a modem man is of very inferior quality. But it can be of such bad quality that no change is possible. This must always be remembered. People whose being can still be changed are very lucky. But there are people who are definitely diseased, broken machines with whom nothing can be done. And such people are in the majority. If you think of this you will understand why only few can receive real knowledge. Their being prevents it.

"Generally speaking, the balance between knowledge and being is even more important than a separate development of either one or the other. And a separate development of knowledge or of being is not desirable in any way. Although it is precisely this one-sided development that often seems particularly attractive to people.

"If knowledge outweighs being a man knows but has no power to do. It is useless knowledge. On the other hand if being outweighs knowledge a man has the power to do, but does not know, that is, he can do something but does not know what to do. The being he has acquired becomes aimless and efforts made to attain it prove to be useless.

"In the history of humanity there are known many examples when entire civilizations have perished because knowledge outweighed being or being outweighed knowledge."

"What are the results of the development of the line of knowledge without being, or the development of the line of being without knowledge?" someone asked during a talk upon this subject.

"The development of the line of knowledge without the line of being gives a weak yogi," said G., "that is to say, a man who knows a great deal but can do nothing, a man who does not understand" (he emphasized these words) "what he knows, a man without appreciation, that is, a man for whom there is no difference between one kind of knowledge and another. And the development of the line of being without knowledge gives a stupid saint, that is, a man who can do a great deal but who does not know what to do or with what object; and if he does anything he acts in obedience to his subjective feelings which may lead him greatly astray and cause him to commit grave mistakes, that is, actually to do the opposite of what he wants. In either case both the weak yogi and the stupid saint are brought to a standstill. Neither the one nor the other can develop further.

 

[syldan]

Thank you for this timely and accurate description of events that many must be experiencing at this 'time'. From networking with people in my life that are not involved in this forum, or the work of consciousness per say, i find (and this is also true of me too) that we are stepping back to re-asess a lot of our beliefs in this 'time of transition' construct. Is it like what the C's have described concerning 'death': do the person's beliefs influence strongly what they will experience at 'time of transition'? Or will all people still standing in their vehicle of skin and bones experience something 'similar' in nature? Also, it has come to mind that as we each fuel our own 'movie', is it possible that the transition happens, has, is, will, at a pace where we cannot perceive it as an outward event?

With each session, more questions? Thank you for the wonderful mind expanding work!

 

[Mikey]

I wonder what these things actually mean. In what way exactly could a person who got considerably far in knowing himself deteriorate rapidly.

Here might be another clue: Stages in the Work, limited time for progress, and karmic debt along the path

 

[Laura]

Thanks, thank you all for the session.

Even being raised as a Catholic I have little or none problem to accept that Jesus never existed. Actually I kind of wondered this before all the current discussions, here or over there, not only by my literary research but even earlier as a feeling in my heart. Also I do understand the difficult for spreading the light in this realm of darkness; nevertheless (sorry) I still didn't understand how there was not disinformation? If I recall correctly the C's talked a lot about a Jesus resurrected and who afterwards took a mother-ship. That does mean that in fact a man (later firmly took as Jesus) was reanimated from a comma and was taken into a mother-ship? If so, who? And that did happen around the same spoken period of time?

Actually, what was said was not that he was "resurrected" but:

Q: (L) Details about Jesus' extended "sleep" state.

A: He spent 96 hours in a comatose state in a cave near Jerusalem. When he awoke, he prophesied to his disciples and then exited the cave. 27,000 people had assembled because of mother ship appearance and he was taken up in a beam of light.

At this point, we don't know that something like this did NOT happen to SOMEONE, especially considering the weird things that were reported by many people before, during, and after the siege and destruction of Jerusalem, and made it into the texts of several historians, parts of which are still in Tacitus and Josephus. During such times, all kinds of anomalous things can happen and later be assimilated into stories and legends.

To make the point:

Josephus (A.D. 75) - Jewish Historian
"Besides these [signs], a few days after that feast, on the one- and-twentieth day of the month Artemisius, [Jyar,] a certain prodigious and incredible phenomenon appeared; I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armour were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the] temple, as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence" (Jewish Wars, VI-V-3).

Thus there was a star resembling a sword, which stood over the city, and a comet, that continued a whole year.
 Thus also, before the Jews’ rebellion, and before those commotions which preceded the war, when the people were come in great crowds to the feast of unleavened bread, on the eighth day of the month Xanthicus [Nisan], and at the ninth hour of the night, so great a light shone round the altar and the holy house, that it appeared to be bright day time; which light lasted for half an hour.
 This light seemed to be a good sign to the unskillful, but was so interpreted by the sacred scribes, as to portend those events that followed immediately upon it.
 (Wars 6:289
(6.5.3.289-291))

“A supernatural apparition was seen, too amazing to be believed. What I am now to relate would, I imagine, be dismissed as imaginary, had this not been vouched for by eyewitnesses, then followed by subsequent disasters that deserved to be thus signalized. For before sunset chariots were seen in the air over the whole country, and armed battalions speeding through the clouds and encircling the cities.” (rendered in Chilton)

Tacitus (A.D. 115) - Roman historian
"13. Prodigies had occurred, but their expiation by the offering of victims or solemn vows is held to be unlawful by a nation which is the slave of superstition and the enemy of true beliefs. In the sky appeared a vision of armies in conflict, of glittering armour. A sudden lightning flash from the clouds lit up the Temple. The doors of the holy place abruptly opened, a superhuman voice was heard to declare that the gods were leaving it, and in the same instant came the rushing tumult of their departure. Few people placed a sinister interpretation upon this. The majority were convinced that the ancient scriptures of their priests alluded to the present as the very time when the Orient would triumph and from Judaea would go forth men destined to rule the world." (Histories, Book 5, v. 13).

 

[John G]

Thanks for this informative session.

A: Keep in mind that you have dealt with things the same way for so long that there are very deep tracks in the brain. At the same time, there are circuits that have been little or never used. This must change!!! Super efforts are needed or you will deteriorate rapidly!

...

A: Entropy awaits if you do not take advantage of the present opportunities.

I wonder what these things actually mean. In what way exactly could a person who got considerably far in knowing himself deteriorate rapidly.
I am basing my comment on the following thread started by Parallel: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,26801.0.html
If he is the same person of course. His comments display good insight into his own programs.

Those book quotes in that thread briefly mention it as personality related and I can believe that. I'm way too "alone" too. I like to be alone in fantasy or watching people from a distance or up close with strangers without saying anything. I can do real work I suppose in a library or on the internet, conversing quite fine on the internet (I met my wife on the internet and the only non-internet date I ever had was with someone my parents set me up with) but the in-person world certainly shows something isn't right? Kind of scary to think you can severely mess up some good research in an incarnation with some very non-important dissociation. You wouldn't think being alone/watching without speaking would get you in trouble but it very much can for this world and apparently for your future world possibilities too. Yikes.

 

[paralleloscope]

A: Keep in mind that you have dealt with things the same way for so long that there are very deep tracks in the brain. At the same time, there are circuits that have been little or never used. This must change!!! Super efforts are needed or you will deteriorate rapidly!

...

A: Entropy awaits if you do not take advantage of the present opportunities.

I wonder what these things actually mean. In what way exactly could a person who got considerably far in knowing himself deteriorate rapidly.
I am basing my comment on the following thread started by Parallel: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,26801.0.html
If he is the same person of course. His comments display good insight into his own programs.

Hi Solar, my take is that knowledge or insight about ones dissociative traits, attachment avoidance or any debilitating issue isn't going to do much good just in theory. Acting (with super efforts), making use of knowledge which counters a stuck state of being, makes the difference. I'd say that those deeply ingrained and fearful brain tracks form a contractile nature, and if those are the tracks I continue to follow, it's a given that entropy will be around the bend.

I'll provide some more personal context soon. But in a nutshell it's as Laura writes, an example of "disparity between knowledge and being", and habitual dissociation is very good for stunting growth of being and so knowledge becomes 'abstract and inapplicable to life'. The dissociative/ avoidant bubble was erected to keep reality out, it became a life choice, and it seems we are living in times where our life choices are being consolidated. And as we know, locking out reality is a sure fire way of deteriorating.

 

[Corvus]

Thanks for sharing.

 

[aluminumfalcon]

Thanks Laura and company for this session with the Cs. And thank you, Parallel, for your question. I identified with it immediately. At least, I identified with the answer to your question. I kind of see myself in a spot right now that is not progressing. In my case, within, I catch a voice not my own pointing out positive affirming things for me to do, but I do not act on these. I disregard them. I hadn't thought of them as disassociated emotions. I felt more distrusting than disassociated from them. These moments of disregarding what come as beneficial thoughts have become a habit, unfortunately. Reading this was a lesson to me to respond to my thoughts, especially when I evaluate them as being beneficial.

 

[cindyj]

Thank you so much for posting this latest session, and so quickly! It feels like very timely information indeed. Now, to be more aware of promptings and opportunities for growth and for helping others (while being sensitive to individual progress)...

 

[Lizziespreparetogovegan]

(Pierre) Just about the way the C's addressed how to deliver to truth and how far to go... It reminded me. You know when we had those EE classes, we often encountered people who had a genuine interest. They wanted to know, at least to some extent. During those conversations, all the time, you're testing to see how far you could go, how much you can say, like about psychopathology, and so on. You could deliver a lot about many topics. But, by going slowly and testing, you can see, "Well, here, I can say some more, but there, I cannot go!" You don't dump it all on a person because there is a genuine interest, and this person might be open to something, but only gradually... There are many things about our reality that are totally shocking to the average person.

Wow, this was quite a session and feel I need time to digest all of this. I was struggling initially with the C's explanation about not giving the Jesus information but was very grateful for Pierre's analogy above which perfectly clarified the situation.

A: Notice that Bernhard does no original work of his own, but rather attempts to ride on the coat tails of others!!!

Funny, I always take the time to read Bernhard's posts on FB and have always considered them extremely erudite and powerful (which actually I still believe they are). At the same time I've often found myself asking if anyone could really be that evolved and 'perfected' (as he comes across in his posts) and whether the real life Bernhard is the same as his FB posts. But this comment about attempting to 'ride on the coat tails of others' was quite a wake up and points out something that seems very obvious now and has been staring me in the face: Bernhard is simply another student of the work here and his ideas and their portrayal are simply the fruits of the network and perhaps Laura's work in particular. Obviously, the insights into his predation and subsequent projection onto 'outside forces' are a crucial reminder for all of us and for me in particular actually.

Many thanks again to all involved with this session

 

[Lilou]

Wow! Thanks for the new session. A pleasant surprise and one that's dense with information. Even though some of the situations are personal, I think the explanations will benefit a great number of people. Myself included. The neurological information is fascinating and totally makes sense.

It would have been interesting to ask the best methods to re-route the deeply worn tracks in the brain, although, we can probably figure that out on our own - change in diet, habits, thinking patterns - stepping out of our comfort zone. I dunno, I suppose those are the types of things that would rewire the brain?

Awesome session.

 

[rymw]

Thanks, thank you all for the session.

Even being raised as a Catholic I have little or none problem to accept that Jesus never existed. Actually I kind of wondered this before all the current discussions, here or over there, not only by my literary research but even earlier as a feeling in my heart. Also I do understand the difficult for spreading the light in this realm of darkness; nevertheless (sorry) I still didn't understand how there was not disinformation? If I recall correctly the C's talked a lot about a Jesus resurrected and who afterwards took a mother-ship. That does mean that in fact a man (later firmly took as Jesus) was reanimated from a comma and was taken into a mother-ship? If so, who? And that did happen around the same spoken period of time?

Actually, what was said was not that he was "resurrected" but:

Q: (L) Details about Jesus' extended "sleep" state.

A: He spent 96 hours in a comatose state in a cave near Jerusalem. When he awoke, he prophesied to his disciples and then exited the cave. 27,000 people had assembled because of mother ship appearance and he was taken up in a beam of light.

At this point, we don't know that something like this did NOT happen to SOMEONE, especially considering the weird things that were reported by many people before, during, and after the siege and destruction of Jerusalem, and made it into the texts of several historians, parts of which are still in Tacitus and Josephus. During such times, all kinds of anomalous things can happen and later be assimilated into stories and legends.

Could this be the lesser known individual mentioned by the C's who was also woven into the Jesus story? Would be great to know who he was historically or perhaps he might have been somebody known and recorded by certain circles.

 

[Wu Wei Wu]

Thanks for the session.

Just clued into the 'Roman Women' thing now. Makes total sense. Wow, hindsight is 20/20!

I'll have to check out more of the Caesar literature.