Session 13 December 2014

Persej said:
(parallel) How can I process or work with the emotions that I feel are underneath, but which sort of get stored under a certain layer in daily life, and so never get processed?

(L) Never get expressed or processed? Because they're not being expressed, or they have never been expressed in any way? How can you deal with the emotions that block you, or something like that?

A: Keep in mind that you have dealt with things the same way for so long that there are very deep tracks in the brain. At the same time, there are circuits that have been little or never used. This must change!!! Super efforts are needed or you will deteriorate rapidly!

Q: (parallel) Can I ask about these tracks, and how to work with them? Jump out of them? What ways I can...

(Perceval) When they say, "very deep tracks", does that mean anything to you?

(parallel) I just think of habits.

(Perceval) Like what?

(parallel) Maybe disregarding when I get like a signal when I sit alone. I think, "Okay, you should really sit down and have a think about this," and it disappears. It's just dissociation.

(Perceval) Losing a thought or idea...

(L) That's one thing that Martha Stout talks about. When you dissociate, it becomes habitual. That may be what they're talking about...

A: Yes.

Q: (L) What they're talking about is the habitual dissociation. Paying close and careful attention to what's outside, and responding to it, is what you've almost never used.

A: You live your life from inside a bubble.

Q: (Pierre) A bubble that is between you and interacting with reality.

A: Entropy awaits if you do not take advantage of the present opportunities.

(L) You have all this emotion going on...

(Ark) Do you talk to yourself in your mind?

(parallel) It takes over, yes.

(Ark) Does it happen often? When you start talking, I mean...

(parallel) No, it's not conversations. I bring up a point, and then that I guess I need to think about it. It's not very deep especially not these days when I'm working physically a lot.

(L) Is there anything else that you can give parallel right now, or should we come back to this topic at another time?

A: Let him think, work, network, and see later.

I'll wait for some more info, but that sounds very much like my problem. :/

I have similar issues as well. The part about deep tracks reminds me very much of a book I recently read called Primal Leadership. The book itself was sort of a sequel to Emotional Intelligence, but focuses on leadership skills and what is required to become successful at it and develop a strong team. So it's not necessarily written for dealing with dissociation but I think a lot of the principles laid out in it can be transferred over. The book often talks about ingrained habits and patterns of behaviour that are mainly emotional in nature that often sabotage peoples ability to grow and learn from their mistakes. Here are a few excerpts.

Emotional intelligence, as we saw in chapters 2 and 3, involves circuitry that runs between the brain's executive centers in the prefrontal lobes and the brain's limbic system, which governs feelings, impulses, and drives. Skills based in the limbic areas, research shows, are best learned through motivation, extended practice and feedback. Compare that kind of learning with what goes on in the neocortex, which governs analytical and technical ability. The neocortex grasps concepts quickly, placing them within an expanding network of associations and comprehension. This part of the brain, for instance, can figure out from reading a book how to use a computer program, or the basics of making a sales call. When learning technical or analytical skills, the neocortex operates with magnificent efficiency.

The problem is that most training programs for enhancing emotional intelligence abilities, such as leadership, target the neocortex rather than the limbic brain. Thus, learning is limited and sometimes can even have a negative impact. Under a microscope, the limbic areas – the emotional brain – have a more primitive organization of brain cells than do those in the neocortex, the thinking brain. The design of the neocortex makes it a highly efficient learning machine, expanding our understanding by linking new ideas or facts to an extensive cognitive network. This associative mode or learning takes place with extraordinary rapidity: the thinking brain can comprehend something after a single hearing or reading.

The limbic brain, on the other hand, is a much slower learner – particularly when the challenge is to relearn deeply ingrained habits. This difference matters immensely when trying to improve leadership skills: at their most basic level, those skills come down to habits learned early in life. If those habits are no longer sufficient, or hold a person back, learning takes longer. Reeducating the emotional brain for leadership learning, therefore, requires a different model from what works for the thinking brain: It needs lots of practice and repetition. (And Super Efforts!)

If the right model is used, training can actually alter the brain centers that regulate negative and positive emotions – the links between the amygdala and the prefrontal lobes. For example, researchers at the University of Wisconsin taught “mindfulness” to R & D scientists at a biotech firm who were complaining about the stressful pace of their jobs. Mindfulness is a skill that helps people keenly focus on the present moment and drop distracting thoughts (such as worries) rather than getting lost in them, thus producing a calming effect. After just eight weeks, the R & D people reported noticeably less stress, and they felt more creative and enthusiastic about their work. But most remarkably, their brains had shifted toward less activity in the right prefrontal areas (which generate distressing emotions) and move in the left – the brains center for upbeat, optimistic feelings.

These finding – and many more like them – belie the popular belief that starting early in adulthood, neural connections inevitably atrophy and cannot be replaced (and the corollary belief that as adults, it's too late to change our fundamental personal skills.) Neurological research has shown quite the opposite. Human brains can create new neural tissue as well as new neural connections and pathways throughout adulthood.

.... To begin – or sustain – real development in emotional intelligence, you must first engage that power of your ideal self. (Or putting this another way, as Gurdjieff said: A constant inner-striving for self-perfection) There's a simple reason: Changing habits is hard work. One only need think back to one's successes or failures with New Year's resolutions to find ample evidence of this. Whenever people try to change habits of how they think and act, they must reverse decades of learning that resides in heavily traveled, highly reinforced neural circuitry, built up over years of repeating that habit. That's why making lasting changes requires a strong commitment to a future vision of oneself – especially during stressful times or amid growing responsibilities.

In fact, the very act of contemplating change can fill people with worries about perceived obstacles. Sometimes after people have experienced that initial feeling of excitement about their ideal futures, they immediately lose it again, frustrated because they aren't already living that dream today. That's when remembering the brain's role in feelings can help. As discussed in chapter 2, it's the activation of the left prefrontal cortex that gives us a motivating hope, by letting us imagine how great we'll feel the day we reach the goal of our ideal. That's what spurs us on, despite obstacles.

The Mindful Prefrontal Cortex

As we saw with Juan Trebino, crafting an agenda of specific goals converts life into a learning lab. Spending time with his daughter's soccer team, at a crisis center, and with colleagues from work all became opportunities for Trebino to work on his emotional intelligence. The goals helped him to monitor himself to see how well he was doing; they reminded him to pay attention.

Since the habits we was trying to overcome had become automatic – routines that had taken hold over time, without his realizing it – bringing them into awareness was a crucial step toward changing them. As he paid more attention, the situations that arose – whether listening to a colleague, coaching soccer, or taking on the phone to someone who was distaught – all became cues that stimulated him to break old habits and try new responses instead.

This cueing for habit change is neural as well as perceptual. Researchers at the University of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Milton University have shown that as people mentally prepare for a task, they activate the prefrontal cortex – that part of the brain that performs executive functions and moves them into action. Without preparation, the prefrontal cortex does not activate in advance. Thus, the greater the prior activation, the better a person does at the task.

Such mental rehearsal becomes particularly important when we're trying to overcome old leadership habits and replace them with a better way of doing things. As one of the neuroscientists in this study found, the prefrontal cortex becomes particularly active when a person has to prepare to overcome a habitual response. The aroused prefrontal cortex marks the brain's focus on what's about to happen. Without that arousal, a person will act out old, undesirable routines... It takes commitment and constant reminders to stay focused on undoing these habits. (Shocks are necessary to achieve that desired level of arousal in order to initiate changes)

...

In the self-directed learning process, we draw on others every step of the way – from articulating and refining our ideal self and comparing it with the reality, to the final assessment that affirms our progress. Our relationships offer us the very context in which we understand our progress and realize the usefulness of what we're learning.
 
Shijing said:
Thanks to everyone at the chateau for this session!

Renaissance said:
I think I too have these dissociative habits. Just one example I've noticed in myself is how I read the forum. I'll 'speed read' through responses and miss quite a bit of what is being said. And if I'm not really paying attention to what others are saying, there's little that can be done by way of responding to what is going on outside. And I think it's quite a barrier for self development as well. There's really no (or very little) input or output.

I have that problem as well -- I tend to compulsively try to read everything that's been posted on a particular day, but the problem is that I don't absorb a lot of it if I try to do it too quickly. I'm trying to work on slowing down and bumping quality of reading over quantity, but it requires fighting with ingrained habits.

I have those exact same problems too, it's like feeling a weight somewhere within & I feel like I'm doing others a disservice by not reading absolutely everything. Even if It's not particularly interesting, or is beyond my ken. Interestingly I was a "speed reader" before I found the forum & then slowed down for the first time ever, then I tried to read everything. By not responding well enough to changes in my environment I've gone back to "speed reading" & now not reading enough. But the ingrained dissociative habits are, I think, the biggest issue currently for me. I have as much information on why via the forum, & I've been through "recapitulation" & all (not enough) but the defence mechanism from childhood is so deep & automatic that I'm sure that my limited knowledge has extended beyond my being. Which has been a growing suspicion even when I felt I was doing well. So, I'm an addict for sure, I'm addicted to dissociation typically under certain stressful situations that stem from a distinct lack of intimacy - the narcissistic wounding is a potent poison.

Example, I'll start to get emotional over some work/family related issue where I felt "wronged" & I'll even behave with external consideration before & after, yet reviewing the events of the day makes the emotions bubble to the surface & although I have "self-defence weapons", EE (gonna start properly & not use just the 3-stage & warrior's in a crappy fashion from memory - there's reasons for that) cold baths, diet psychology works, networking (badly) etc, I'll just slip into "warm & fuzzy" mode in my mind & start daydreaming. Which is stuff I was daydreaming about when I was like, 12 years old or so. And it's lasted for many days in a week for decades. Just reading this back feels shameful & embarrassing even without going into great detail, but the session just brought that about; sometimes it's one of the few newly learned practices that CAN be automatic for me, though it's a FEELING predicament which immediately throws up nonsense spewing from "the stranger in my mind" that says "God, don't write that!" I still think I can overcome a lot of these issues especially the dissociation (arguably as difficult or tricky as learning to move away from internal considering, to external consideration & the manoeuvres to mitigate the grip of system 1) & I know it'll take a supreme effort to do so in this lifetime. I really don't like it when I achieve something, then throw it away from slackness.
 
mkrnhr said:
These different forms of knowledge are not merely theoretical accumulation of facts, but they are related to a the whole spectrum of human experience as in social and emotional intelligence. Therefore, living in one's head create an imbalance in being and a disconnect from reality. That's why Gurdjieff warns the students that they are "candidates for the madhouse".

I assume that "knowledge" as we/ I indiscriminately use, is not the real knowledge is, as from Mrs. Laura post of the disparity between knowledge and being, I suppose we/I need to understand first the concept of knowledge as is describe in The Wave Chapter 72: The Nonlinear Dynamics of Love and Complex Systems: Debugging the Universe. I just finished that chapter last friday, need to read it again along with these posts related.
 
I think I'll need a few days to process things from this session. All I can say now is :wow: :wow: and thank you so much! :)
 
Renaissance said:
It seems that instead of recognizing that he was preying on this woman, he went through a thousand hoops and created this huge narrative to justify it, and blame her (and aliens) instead. I think it's also pretty awful that he's putting this woman through this publicly, when really it's his own behavior that is the issue.

Indeed. It's one thing to publish something in defense of yourself if you have been publicly attacked.... what he is doing is despicable.
 
Regarding "tracks" in the brain, David DiSalvo's book Brain Changer describes that, the feedback loops that both run according to and shape them, and means of affecting the system. But the strength of this book is also its weakness: it concisely synthesizes a broad range of information. It is easy to read, but it is hard to fully understand the implications. Other relevant knowledge and experience is needed to get the most out of it.

Another book, which Laura has recommended, is Steven Mithen's The Prehistory of the Mind. I have yet to read it, though it seems quite interesting and relevant. In describing the evolution of the human mind, it covers several stages. What it has to say about the "brain as cathedral" may be particularly useful. (The "cathedral" is a metaphor for a central structure, to which several others around it can be connected.) The book goes into the mechanics - the parts and dynamics - of the brain, in scientific terms, which can be useful in coming to know how we can clean/repair/improve our "machine".


Book recommendations aside, I'm yet another person to whom what was discussed concerning parallel applies. In short, practice (or "super efforts") are needed - for me as well as for others - otherwise the theory is useless.
 
Thank you Parallel, Laura, Data and others for the clarification. The words of the C's and Gurdijeff hit me hard when seen applied to a real life person walking a similar path as myself.
 
What a rush of sessions. Great thanks to all crew & Laura (looks like you're pump up).
Haven't read it though. Will save and read it later.

Thank you once again. :thup:
 
(L) That's one thing that Martha Stout talks about. When you dissociate, it becomes habitual. That may be what they're talking about...

A: Yes.

Q: (L) What they're talking about is the habitual dissociation. Paying close and careful attention to what's outside, and responding to it, is what you've almost never used.

That reminds me of the term "complex" used by Jung (_http://www.terrapsych.com/jungdefs.html)

Complex (or "feeling-toned complex"): from a term borrowed by the German psychologist Zeihen and used by Eugen Breuer, then Jung and Freud: a cluster of emotionally charged associations, usually unconscious and gathered around an archetypal center (and so a blend of environment and disposition). Repressed emotional themes. Complexes were first noticed by Aristotle, who in his Psyche called them part-souls, and behave like little personalities (and have unconscious fantasy systems), often even after partially incorporated into awareness. A more powerful complex will either blend with one less powerful or replace it, and its constellating power corresponds to its energy value.

Complexes are the contents of the personal unconscious, whereas archetypes, their foundations, are those of the collective unconscious. Complexes, found in healthy as well as troubled people, are always either the cause or the effect of a conflict. The complex arises from the clash between the need to adapt and constitutional inability to meet the challenge. They originate in childhood, and their first form is the parental complex.

_http://www.mind-development.eu/jung.html:

In Jung's theory, complexes may be related to environmental traumatic experience, or they may be caused by internal conflicts. There are many kinds of complex, but at the core of any complex is a universal pattern of experience, or archetype. He postulated that the complexes originate in the archetypal depths of the psyche - deep structures, patterns and ways of living that represent an inherited memory of the history of human culture.

_http://www.briancollinson.ca/index.php/2012/07/jung-on-individual-therapy-the-psychological-complex.html:

What Can We Do About Complexes?

To really start to resolve a complex, it is essential to explore its roots in the unconscious mind. It’s only when we get to the conflict or the wound that is at the heart of a complex, and make that wound, and the feeling around it into consciousness, that we can begin to take the energy out of the complex, and begin to have an increased capacity to avoid being completely sidelined by it.

So basically one have to bring to consciousness the unconscious parts of one's complexes, to become aware of them (it's probably easier said than done though). Parallel, are you paying attention to your dreams? Can you remember them?

I think the recapitulation technique as described by Castaneda can be of some help as well (_http://www.prismagems.com/castaneda/donjuan6.html)

A recapitulation is the forte of stalkers as the dreaming body is the forte of dreamers . It consists of recollecting one's life down to the most insignificant detail.
The first stage is a brief recounting of all the incidents in our lives that in an obvious manner stand out for examination.
The second stage is a more detailed recollection, which starts systematically at a point that could be the moment prior to the stalker sitting, and theoretically could extend to the moment of birth.
A perfect recapitulation can change a warrior as much, if not more, than the total control of the dreaming body . In this respect, dreaming and stalking lead to the same end, the entering into the third attention. It is important for a warrior, however, to know and practice both.
The key element in recapitulating is breathing. Recollecting is easy if one can reduce the area of stimulation around the body. Theoretically, stalkers have to remember every feeling that they have had in their lives, and this process begins with a breath.
Write down a list of the events to be relived. ...

A: You live your life from inside a bubble.

Q: (Pierre) A bubble that is between you and interacting with reality.

Living in a bubble which consists of buffers? You may recapitulate this thread (Buffers, Programs and "the Predator's Mind"): http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,6419.0.html

I hope this helps...
 
Regarding what's going on with Bernhard, it sounds like a typical case of what Paul Levy describes in his book Dispelling Wetiko. A bit ironic, given Bernhard's reference to his work on shadow projection.

The idea of wetiko infection corresponds to "the Predator's mind". The extent of infection can vary widely. According to Levy, apart from projecting one's own darkness onto others or outer forces, another symptom is perceiving that one sees and knows better than all others. As infection deepens, insight disappears, while at the same time, the infected person thinks the opposite is happening.
 
Thank you to all for a brilliant session! There is a lot here, and in the previous session, to work with or on and to expand. There is quite a focus on the concepts and impacts of STS and STO, and how things aren't always as black or as white as they seem. Great session!

Again, thank you :flowers:
 
Renaissance said:
BrightLight11 said:
The C's comments on Bernhard and Humberto didn't really come as a surprise to me. I've been picking up a certain 'flavor' from their
posts/pics on FB for awhile now. It's nice to see it confirmed.

I agree.

Me too.

Bernhard doesn't seem to take any responsibility for his own actions. It doesn't occur to him that perhaps he is the predator. Yet, he talks about work on the self, ''alarm-clocks'', and about the importance of networking, etc. (see quote below), well... if he does have a network, I'd say it's a pretty ineffective one, as he appears to be quite clueless of his own 'dark side'. I think that when someone has a network consisting of a bunch of people who may be having the same blind spots, one wouldn't be getting anywhere. I think Bernhard and Humberto have mistaken themselves to be on the right track, when they're not. Instead of helping each other, they may actually be covering up their own inappropriate and internally considering behavior with narratives they come up with. The short one-sided ''Love Bite'' story of Humberto, in which his girlfriend showed ''irrational behavior and emotional drama'' says enough. There was no word of Humberto's part in it. Fwiw.

Bernhard said:
We also need to a good network of truly like-minded friends who are engaged in the same work so we can be “alarm clocks” to each other and check each other’s blind spots.

Bernhard said:
Humberto started to get involved in a relationship that also had symptoms of Love Bite. He started to have dreams about abductions and even having has abduction like experiences, waking up in the opposite direction of how he felt asleep with strange body marks, cuts and scratches on his body. His relationship turned into a spiral downward with a lot of irrational behavior and emotional drama by the girl he was involved in. One day she literally just disappeared without a word or closure. It took him a long time to get over it.
 
Oxajil said:
Yet, he talks about work on the self, ''alarm-clocks'', and about the importance of networking, etc. (see quote below)
Unless it is a network of two people (negative feedback loop), which doest seem to be far from enough to say the least :)
 
mkrnhr said:
Oxajil said:
Yet, he talks about work on the self, ''alarm-clocks'', and about the importance of networking, etc. (see quote below)
Unless it is a network of two people (negative feedback loop), which doest seem to be far from enough to say the least :)

Yea, which makes me wonder what his definition of a network is.
 
Oh no, not Bernhard! I have watched his documentaries and some of his articles and he always come across as very lucid, concise and highly knowledgeable/well read. He explains concepts in very dry and almost academic language that you can't help but think he is how he comes across in his work!

So disheartening because it just makes you question everything. TBH I think he lives in California and by that fact alone, I always had a red flag on the back of my head just in-case. His stuff is still good though and yes he rides on other people's back because most of his stuff references other people's work and I don't think he hides this.
 

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