Session 21 June 2014

Shared Joy

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Thank you all for posting this session. I think the messages sent to us were a combination aimed at increasing our personal efforts to contribute to the advancement of others (which can be done in many ways) as well as for doing it in a more lighthearted manner.
I noticed that this requires a certain detachment from our expectations of rewards and also fears of not being appreciated, not good enough, etc..

When I was challenged with really hard and seemingly no-way-out situations, I've found that putting myself such questions as: could you do it if this were the last day of your life ?, or could you gather enough force and persevere for only one more day ?, made me forget about my everyday biases, fears and indeed I became capable of doing things that were quite unimaginable for me, and did them free of my usual self imposed psychological burden. When you have nothing to loose - you give all, then you are free...even to enjoy this freedom.
Joy
 

Mariama

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Thanks for the session and this thread, it is really interesting, this discussion about Gurdjieff.

Loved the remarks about the Germans, German efficiency and so on. :D You gotta love our Germans here on the forum!
 

gdpetti

Jedi Council Member
Keit said:
s-kur said:
Enough progress of his students relative to G's progress? I mean, if G have a big progress in the Work his students had to gain closer progrees in order that they "putted step behind" G.
Yes, indeed. G had a lot of quite intense lessons and experiences in his life, and a lot of opportunities for conscious suffering and working on the self. So, maybe, even if his students had access to all this knowledge, it still wasn't enough, since they didn't go through similar experiences and through similar suffering that would allow them grow in being. Maybe they didn't meet enough petty tyrants that would "assist" them in this task.
Sounds good to me... as indirect catalyst is never the same as direct "in your face" catalyst, but like therapy, sometimes you have to take what you can get.... which might be where the 'arts' come in... such as bibliotherapy..."becomes a process of identifying with another character so that feelings are released and the individual develops a greater awareness of his/her own motivations and rationalizations for his/her behavior." Which then relates to teaching/learning methods, which we all know how boring textbooks usually are, and why they are usually 'edited' and not 'written', whereas writers utilize stories, which is perhaps the 'lore' of their lives'... as "story is a basic way of processing information, and both children and adults find it much easier to remember and use material presented in story format rather than as a categorized list."
Obviously the G man tried this perhaps in admiration of his father or was it his grandfather?.. not too successfully in my opinion... not a good storyteller.. and G seemed to always be on the lookout for a different means to the ends of this 'teaching', 'by example' if possible, but if the examples are experiences of your life, the only way for others without similar experiences to understand and feel them would be through story.. thus his attempt? Seemed he was always searching for a means, like dance... a way that would work where others hadn't before. Not easy... what good is an answer without the question to accompany it? Imbalance of the ship of self if it leads to frustration et al.
Perhaps storytelling is that 'best' means for most(at least in the world of today), but then we are back to the necessary awakening to the call first... and my impression from the little that I've read of his writings is that he found those in short supply, but doesn't every group, including this one? Not everyone's life can be prepared to be totally F# up with plenty of petty tyrants to fulfill their necessary function. Most just have to make do with what they've got, and like 'Oliver', ask for more, please. ;D
Isn't he best known for what P.D. Ouspensky wrote, and thru his lecture, other writers of the time? Seems the lesson of 'letting go' applies... johnny appleseed approach... and those writers of the time only work with the bits of knowledge that they understand or develop a feeling for and push the seeds of thought and little further down the road...and as G said, or someone... perhaps the timing wasn't 'right'? perhaps for the whole tree, but.... 'a seed replanted still may grow', as the song goes... and we can see how some of those seeds have helped 'Jack' grow his/her beanstalk today. :O

I liked the changing EM field image(in my mind) of Americans' holding on for dear life.... :/ well, for their lives anyway, calling out for help as the rest of the world looks on wondering if the help we really need is for them to cut the umbilical cord and set us free, and thereby themselves? for better or for worse, because then some of them get to make their move on the top dog position themselves... more competition, that's always makes the game more fun to watch. ;) and perhaps we are already seeing that today in regards to Russia, Ukraine etc? Final decisions before the final exams... a little pushing and shoving for positions in the chain of command, especially if most of the puppets in the show don't realize WTF is going on, nor why... nor do they care, they just want it all, now... sounds very High School Musical, doesn't it? Though I'm not too sure about how Disney always ends those stories with everyone getting along at the end... seems an awfully hard mask to put on one's face too often. :mad: But it is a good story for kids to get a taste of the bully at school, or their own personal petty tyrant, even if only on tv for a couple of hours. It's a start.
 

ROEL

Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
"Q: (Data) Was Gurdjieff a "man" in the fullest sense of the word as he described it himself?

"A: Close. Gurdjieff's greatest problem was that there was no one to place on the step behind him at the time, and he slipped a bit."

I have the impression that G gave his closest followers a sign in that sense when very close to his passing he said: "I leave you in a fine mess".

And many thanks for the session. A real load to take in. Wheels turning... :)
 

s-kur

Jedi Council Member
SeekinTruth said:
Keit said:
s-kur said:
Enough progress of his students relative to G's progress? I mean, if G have a big progress in the Work his students had to gain closer progrees in order that they "putted step behind" G.
Yes, indeed. G had a lot of quite intense lessons and experiences in his life, and a lot of opportunities for conscious suffering and working on the self. So, maybe, even if his students had access to all this knowledge, it still wasn't enough, since they didn't go through similar experiences and through similar suffering that would allow them grow in being. Maybe they didn't meet enough petty tyrants that would "assist" them in this task.
Yeah, that's pretty much my take too. G also mentioned about how the teacher can't be too advanced for the students, it makes everything way too difficult. But he said most people don't understand this and demand the highest level of teacher (paraphrased). FWIW.
In this case , i think, it is difficult for both-teacher and student. For student it is not so easy to gain teacher's level or closer, and for teacher it is difficult for "put step behind".

Thus,
Chapter 10 ISOTM
[...]For example, you can see that the teacher always corresponds to the level of the pupil. The higher the pupil, the higher can be the teacher. But a pupil of a level which is not particularly high cannot count on a teacher of a very high level. Actually a pupil can never see the level of the teacher. This is a law. No one can see higher than his own level. But usually people not only do not know this, but, on the contrary, the lower they are themselves, the higher the teacher they demand. The right understanding of this point is already a very considerable understanding. But it occurs very seldom. Usually the man himself is not worth a brass farthing but he must have as teacher no other than Jesus Christ. To less he will not agree. And it never enters his head that even if he were to meet such a teacher as Jesus Christ, taking him as he is described in the Gospels, he would never be able to follow him because it would be necessary to be on the level of an apostle in order to be a pupil of Jesus Christ. Here is a definite law. The higher the teacher, the more difficult for the pupil. And if the difference in the levels of the teacher and pupil go beyond a certain limit, then the difficulties in the path of the pupil become insuperable. It is exactly in connection with this law that there occurs one of the fundamental rules of the fourth way. On the fourth way there is not one teacher. Whoever is the elder, he is the teacher.
In this term, may be 4D STO is a collective consciousness where souls study each other, one's soul expirience is a general expirience.There are each is the teacher.
 

mkrnhr

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
I often wondered about the difference between the life described in "Meetings with remarkable men" and the known life of Gurdjieff. Maybe what he wanted was to form a network, and for that the teacher/student situation was a necessary step, albeit not a finite goal in itself. "meetings" is about a bunch of people from different walks of life who learn from each other and from each other errors and life experiences. That doesn't seem to be the case in the prieuré and maybe that what prevented Gurdjieff from advancing further on, he had arrived to a point where he had to stop to wait for the others and these others didn't make it because they where still stuck in the needy attitude of the teacher/student situation. The way I understand it between the lines, is that Gurdjieff idea of a school was not a school in the common sens of the term, with only lectures and homework, but there was a working together aspect that the student probably didn't absorb completely. OSIT
 

Gaolea

Padawan Learner
Great sessions :D

Thanks everyone!!!

And yes, Start working on helping others, Im still padawan and i feel i dont contribute a lot :(
 

s-kur

Jedi Council Member
G's methods often was an extremely difficult for many students. Can be therefore they left?
It seems to me that he didn't trust anybody teaching of his knowledge, he considered that nobody understands that he speaks. And because of it he could't "put behind them" anobody.
But if he had students who can teach other, low-progress pupils, and students who teach mid-progress pupils, for example, his works would be more effective for he and other.
 

MusicMan

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
May I add my appreciation for the transcript of this session.
It looks like it may be useful to keep an eye one the rumblings from Yellowstone, as an eruption from this super-volcano might affect most of the USA, and perhaps most of the Northern Hemisphere in a kind of 'Nuclear Winter'. The recent volcanic eruptions in Iceland might give a small idea of what is in store.
 

Minas Tirith

Jedi Council Member
Thanks for the session. Very interesting comments about Gurdjieff.
How can someone in 5D "be attentive to earth issues"?

(L) So it's weakening mainly over North America? Is there any significance to that?

A: Oh indeed!

Q: (L) And what might that significance be?

A: Just you wait!

Q: (Perceval) Does a weakened magnetic field have any correlation to stronger likelihood of meteorite impacts or space rock attraction type stuff?

A: Or geological activity!
Not so sure about Yellowstone, even though, of course, one never knows. However, the C's have been talking a lot about a "5D city on a hill" aka Washington, DC and if I correctly remember, encouraged a member in a recent session to sell his/her house and move away from the area. I found that quite straightforward, given that they usually want us to figure things out for ourselves. Given the level of ponerization of Washington DC it would also naturally attract disasters...Just a thought.
 
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