Session 22 March 2014

[Divide by Zero]

In order not to dwell too much I remind you just what I wrote earlier. Some souls need much suffering for development, mainly just to move from STS to STO, however, there are the souls who found their way here for various reasons by mistake (to explain it I would have to point to the evidence I've read, and it would take several pages, I do not have time to write about that) and they usually commit suicide when they notice that. If those souls are advanced in their development, such a suicide is considered by guides from the 5d and 6d as a normal termination of life, and those souls do not for that reason suffer any consequences. So it is not true that all men rightly have been placed here and that we rightly should try to survive all kinds of suffering until we die of old age. In a normal school one remembers one's previous semesters and it helps to learn in the next semesters. We do not remember our past lives because this is _not_ a normal school in the Earth. This is a concentration camp and this is a completely unique planet, one of very few in the universe, so do not tell me that these are "lessons" and that therefore every evil that is happening here is justified.

Hey, I feel the same at times and am angry at hell at the crap that goes on this planet.

However, I don't buy the story of such "advanced" souls finding their way here by mistake.
If that were really the case, it would contradict the idea that such souls are advanced at all.
If that is true, it gives a reason that they came here in the first place: To learn not to get fooled again to come here.
But we don't really know.
If you really have solid evidence, so be it. But, a lot of times when people don't want to link/show evidence, it means that it may not match the scrutiny of other thinkers. Remember, just because it sounds true, doesn't make it so.

Oh and when it comes to sex, read "Caricature of Love" by Cleckley.
Thread here: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,21284.0.html

 

[alteroru486]

You know guys, I can not imagine why you are so convinced that all suffering around us for thousands of years makes sense and _everybody_ is here for a good purpose. There is no proof that it is true. It is like a religious belief very much similar to what the Catholic Church says. On the contrary, I have a feeling that our planet have been occupied by Reptilians and this is why we suffer. That suffering makes very little sense, is unnecessary and happened by "an accident". It just happend but it does not make a profound sense, whereas you believe it does.

Of course if I get to know someone and find out about their significant character flaws I can believe that person deserves some suffering.

But also a lot of people seriously suffer who either have an average life, or are committed to helping others. It is doubtful whether these people got a bad karma. Unless someone (up there) came up with this silly idea of a ridiculous school that is like a survival course, that you have to suffer through several hundred thousand years to find out that such a thing as suffering exists. However, I doubt whether this is so. There is no proof, and I think that I am right in saying (as I said at the beginning), however, that this suffering is simply a consequence of an accident and is unnecessary. You just want to feel better by telling yourselves that all nasty world around is justified, because otherwise it would be difficult to live. Very few people have the courage to tell the truth, or at least to question important and very questionable things like in the movie "I, pet goat II" that can be found at youtube.

So we may say it makes sense to go on with our lives or that it does not, but we need honestly to say to yourself that this world is despicable and life here does not make sense for _many_people_ who should not have incarnated here. In addition, the Cs said (at least three times) that some people commit suicide because their souls are advanced and come to the conclusion that their further stay here is useless, so it is the right thing from the point of view of Cs that these people have committed suicide. Once the talk was about a group suicide of advanced souls and at least two times about some individuals who decided to continue their work by helping out people in 5D. So suicide is _not_always_regarded_up_there_as_bad_.

 

[Carl]

You know guys, I can not imagine why you are so convinced that all suffering around us for thousands of years makes sense and _everybody_ is here for a good purpose. There is no proof that it is true. It is like a religious belief very much similar to what the Catholic Church says. On the contrary, I have a feeling that our planet have been occupied by Reptilians and this is why we suffer. That suffering makes very little sense, is unnecessary and happened by "an accident". It just happend but it does not make a profound sense, whereas you believe it does.

Well first of all, obviously not everyone is here for a "good" purpose. There are those whose most basic desire is to control and destroy, and this is the dominating force on Earth. It seems that you just simply prefer to believe in the "random accident" theory, but we really don't know for sure either way. The question is, if your view is correct, then what do you intend to do about it?

There is a value to suffering, in that it provides knowledge, insight and growth. In fact, the only way out of this world (which, by the way, we know is a horrible place) is through a certain amount of conscious suffering. In other words suffering is a constant on 3d Earth whether you like it or not, we can only choose how we suffer.

But also a lot of people seriously suffer who either have an average life, or are committed to helping others. It is doubtful whether these people got a bad karma. Unless someone (up there) came up with this silly idea of a ridiculous school that is like a survival course, that you have to suffer through several hundred thousand years to find out that such a thing as suffering exists. However, I doubt whether this is so. There is no proof, and I think that I am right in saying (as I said at the beginning), however, that this suffering is simply a consequence of an accident and is unnecessary. You just want to feel better by telling yourselves that all nasty world around is justified, because otherwise it would be difficult to live. Very few people have the courage to tell the truth, or at least to question important and very questionable things like in the movie "I, pet goat II" that can be found at youtube.

Well your views don't actually disagree with what we have learned from Gurdjieff, the C's, modern psychology etc. The only difference is we keep a certain faith that, according to the law of balance in the Universe, there must be a way out. I suggest you get more familiar with the material here before making such pronouncements.

So we may say it makes sense to go on with our lives or that it does not, but we need honestly to say to yourself that this world is despicable and life here does not make sense for _many_people_ who should not have incarnated here. In addition, the Cs said (at least three times) that some people commit suicide because their souls are advanced and come to the conclusion that their further stay here is useless, so it is the right thing from the point of view of Cs that these people have committed suicide. Once the talk was about a group suicide of advanced souls and at least two times about some individuals who decided to continue their work by helping out people in 5D. So suicide is _not_always_regarded_up_there_as_bad_.

Whether anybody should or should not be incarnated here is not your decision to make, and whatever decision making process got us here clearly involves levels of knowledge and intelligence much higher than our own.

Could you post quotes from those sessions? I recall the C's talking about people committing suicide because their current incarnation seemed totally hopeless. But as far as we know, we come right back here to try again. Suicide is a choice like any other, and what makes it good or bad depends on the individual choosing.

 

[Laura]

Only when you do the work that allows your emotional center to open and receive input from the higher centers, which reveals your past life "history", can you become certain that every suffering IS for a reason, and that reason is usually ignorance. Read my signature.

 

[Laura]

I should add, alteroru486, there there is a place for those who feel as you do. Read:

Stalking or Precis on The Good and The Evil

 

[Timótheos]

There are so many assumptions, distortions and twists in your thinking, it's difficult to know where to begin...

You know guys, I can not imagine why you are so convinced that all suffering around us for thousands of years makes sense and _everybody_ is here for a good purpose.

No one is 'convinced' of anything. We make observations based on facts and data, then extrapolate that data to form conclusions in the form of likelihood or probability. Suffering is real, no doubt, and there seems to be a genuine reason for it. That most, if not all suffering is borne of ignorance and the way the alleviate suffering is to gather objective knowledge seems a reasonable way to approach the problem. That various incarnations involving a multitude of different forms of suffering are needed in order to learn lessons in this world so that one no longer has to suffer, i.e.: that the world exists as a 'school', seems to be a plausible explanation for the ongoing horrible conditions on this planet.

There is no proof that it is true.

There is no proof that it is true. There is no proof that it is not true. "Proof, proof" barked the dog.

It is like a religious belief very much similar to what the Catholic Church says.

We do not 'believe' anything. We make observations based on facts and data, then extrapolate that data to form conclusions in the form of likelihood or probability. To compare what we do with the dogma of the Catholic church is so far off base as to be laughable.

On the contrary, I have a feeling that our planet have been occupied by Reptilians and this is why we suffer.

You have a 'feeling'??? What facts and data can you show to support this hypothesis?

That suffering makes very little sense, is unnecessary and happened by "an accident". It just happend but it does not make a profound sense, whereas you believe it does.

We do not 'believe' anything. We make observations based on facts and data, then extrapolate that data to form conclusions in the form of likelihood or probability.

Of course if I get to know someone and find out about their significant character flaws I can believe that person deserves some suffering.

You 'believe' that because a person has character flaws that they 'deserve' to suffer???

But also a lot of people seriously suffer who either have an average life, or are committed to helping others. It is doubtful whether these people got a bad karma. Unless someone (up there) came up with this silly idea of a ridiculous school that is like a survival course, that you have to suffer through several hundred thousand years to find out that such a thing as suffering exists.

Have you read The Wave? Many of your misconceptions can be remedied by getting up to speed with our recommended reading list.

However, I doubt whether this is so. There is no proof, and I think that I am right in saying (as I said at the beginning), however, that this suffering is simply a consequence of an accident and is unnecessary.

"Proof, proof" barked the dog.

You just want to feel better by telling yourselves that all nasty world around is justified, because otherwise it would be difficult to live.

No one is saying that this nasty world is 'justified', for at the root of the word is 'justice' and there seems little if any justice on the planet at the present. Acknowledging that suffering is a consequence of ignorance and that suffering can be alleviated by gathering knowledge, gives one a rather powerful motive to live... to learn! What you are describing above is a process called self-calming and has little relation to what we are doing here.

Very few people have the courage to tell the truth, or at least to question important and very questionable things like in the movie "I, pet goat II" that can be found at youtube.

The very reason that this forum and the Cassiopaean experiment exist is for courageous people to gather together to question important things and tell the truth about what they see. No vague animated Youtube video can compare to that.

So we may say it makes sense to go on with our lives or that it does not, but we need honestly to say to yourself that this world is despicable and life here does not make sense for _many_people_ who should not have incarnated here. In addition, the Cs said (at least three times) that some people commit suicide because their souls are advanced and come to the conclusion that their further stay here is useless, so it is the right thing from the point of view of Cs that these people have committed suicide. Once the talk was about a group suicide of advanced souls and at least two times about some individuals who decided to continue their work by helping out people in 5D. So suicide is _not_always_regarded_up_there_as_bad_.

If you are under the delusion that anyone associated with this forum is advocating suicide, you are obviously in the wrong bar. I'm going to make an assumption here and guess that English is not your first language. You seem to have a significant misunderstanding of what we do here and I suggest a careful reading of the recommended book list before posting any more comments like the one above.

 

[Laura]

So we may say it makes sense to go on with our lives or that it does not, but we need honestly to say to yourself that this world is despicable and life here does not make sense for _many_people_ who should not have incarnated here. In addition, the Cs said (at least three times) that some people commit suicide because their souls are advanced and come to the conclusion that their further stay here is useless, so it is the right thing from the point of view of Cs that these people have committed suicide. Once the talk was about a group suicide of advanced souls and at least two times about some individuals who decided to continue their work by helping out people in 5D. So suicide is _not_always_regarded_up_there_as_bad_.

If you are under the delusion that anyone associated with this forum is advocating suicide, you are obviously in the wrong bar. I'm going to make an assumption here and guess that English is not your first language. You seem to have a significant misunderstanding of what we do here and I suggest a careful reading of the recommended book list before posting any more comments like the one above.

Yup.

There are about 20 or so occurrences of the word "suicide" in the transcripts. I have all of them in a search program, and nowhere do the Cs say what you have alleged above.

The Cs have said that suicide is a CHOICE that is "open to all" but they have also implied strongly that it is an STS choice, most often, and if you do it, you get to come back and try again to learn what you gave up on learning. Frankly, that is not an attractive option. I'd rather learn what I'm here to learn and let the Universe lead the dance.

The Cs have also mentioned that some people who commit suicide do so because of mind programming and it is done to HURT those left behind. That's not a very positive view of it.

In one case, the Cs made it clear that the "choice for suicide" was the result of negative attack.

In another case, suicide was described as a result of extremely negative energy.

So, nope, your assertions are a load of bull; it's that simple.

 

[Joe]

That suffering makes very little sense, is unnecessary and happened by "an accident". It just happend but it does not make a profound sense, whereas you believe it does.

If you think about how human beings learn things of the most value, it is almost always through suffering of some form. Even having to study and research a lot to learn something is a kind of suffering. But many people learn really essential lessons about life through making mistakes, suffering as a result, and then learning to not do it again (eventually). So to say that suffering makes no sense is to miss an essential and objective truth of human existence that is observable all around you in the lives of others and in your own life.

 

[Kisito]

A blind man can develop the colors, but it will not understand them, because its sight sees only pigments. A virgin can make a talk on the sex act and the childbirth, but will not understand. Ignorance makes us discuss on the need the emotions because we judge according to what one believes to know. The emotions are information, they crystallize knowledge on various levels. We can disregard information by taking the blue pill, but that would do nothing but delay reality.

 

[Arwenn]

Hey alteroru486, I see that you still haven't posted an introduction about yourself in the Newbie's section. What have you read, how did you come across this forum, & what exactly made you want to join? I ask because looking at your posts, it does not seem like you share similar ideologies to those that are expressed here. Below are some of your other posts

I have the distinct feeling that one of the greatest,yet simplest messages from the C's is that the things we are most resistant to learning are likely the very things we came here to learn.

I think you're right about most people, but I doubt whether it concerns me. "The lesson" usually consists of doing some stupid things in one's life, and after many years, people draw conclusions and change their behavior. It happens that people throughout their lives do not draw any conclusions but in these situations, they always think that life on Earth is basically interesting and would like to repeat them (another life - reincarnation). In my case it is quite different. I knew as a child that I was in the wrong place, I knew it was a strange world in which people were selfish and isolated from each other and I feel exactly the same after many years. Perhaps I was "sent on a mission (?)" But I do not know that for sure because I'm not susceptible to hypnosis and cannot determine that.

In reference to the emphases above, how can you know this? And as far as feeling like a misfit, have you considered Spirit Release therapy (have a look at the Knowledge and Being videos, and Patrick Rodriguez threads)?

Puma1974, why should you be disappointed? I would be, if it turned out that I was not moved to the fourth density. {from what I gather, no one 'moves' you to 4D, your ability to learn the lessons in 3D is what determines your graduation to 4D}This STS environment has been making me sick since I was a child. Extreme hatred, jealousy and selfishness dominates throughout the globe. Sick chase for money and desire (figuratively) to drown other people even members of one's own family. I do not need ten years of bad experience of living here, nor do I need ten million years. Just a few days tells me everything. I cannot even imagine that STS can exist at all.That has always been beyond my comprehension. {you don't have to imagine it, you are living it, & you would know this if you'd read The Wave} It seems, that for some sick reason, people very much like to fight with each other to climb a social ladder, that is similar to life and death struggle. Money is necessary to survive but society will not give you the money. Society will not let you "move out" (of this world) either. So millions of people starve for no reason at all as all necessary technologies that allow to produce everything like free food and other things are available but only to people in power. They have been suppressed by the powers that be since the assasination of J.F.Kennedy. Continual wars between countries. Very short life span and many diseases. A lot of disabled people having incurable diseases. Some of people deserve that, but a lot of them do not. Most people are addicted to something, especially to sexual activity. As extraterrestrials say: "Hell does not exist, only in such planets as the Earth."{umm, which ETs, when & where?}

 

[TheEmpyreanDancer]

Thank you Laura and Co :D. I have a few questions, please bear with me. I am still learning.

What does PTB stand for?

The C's say we are transitioning to a different realm which is causing a change of frequency in which we exist; does changing frequencies mean we are transitioning from a 3-D world plus time to a 4D world? If so should we start experiencing strange things such as feeling closer to our higher selves and/or receiving messages from our higher selves or bizarre things happening such as paranormal events? Both these things have been happening to me recently.

Will the visible frequency range that our eyes can perceive (light) expand so that we will be able to perceive higher and/or lower levels of the visible range in which we experience now such as the ultraviolet and infrared spectrum becoming part of the visual range we can see?

What do the C's mean exactly when they say "realm?" Are realms parallel universes?

Thanks for your replies :) This is all so fascinating to me. I'm so glad I happened upon the book High Strangeness. Continuing with the wave series now.

~Christina

 

[Tigersoap]

What does PTB stand for?

It's the acronym for "Powers that be".

What do the C's mean exactly when they say "realm?" Are realms parallel universes?

You can find an explanation of the term here as it can mean different things at the same time.

 

[Anthony]

The C's say we are transitioning to a different realm which is causing a change of frequency in which we exist; does changing frequencies mean we are transitioning from a 3-D world plus time to a 4D world? If so should we start experiencing strange things such as feeling closer to our higher selves and/or receiving messages from our higher selves or bizarre things happening such as paranormal events? Both these things have been happening to me recently.

I think the answers to above can be found in the knowledge and being videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIocTERnwg4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvoAioRlAS4

Will the visible frequency range that our eyes can perceive (light) expand so that we will be able to perceive higher and/or lower levels of the visible range in which we experience now such as the ultraviolet and infrared spectrum becoming part of the visual range we can see?

Honestly, I have no idea.

 

[TheEmpyreanDancer]

Thank you much, both links are great

 

[gdpetti]

Isn't the 'success' of any school a sign of the success of its students? A championship title can be given and received but if not earned it cannot be kept, thus one is either a pawn or servant for those in control of the title belt... and if you cannot deal with the competition, your chances of 'success' are very low. 'No pain, no gain', right? If you can't build up the muscle, you won't be able to compete. If you don't compete, you cannot win, and your worse enemy is always yourself. Suicide is just one hurdle in the obstacle course based in self-conscious awareness through the recapitulation process, right?

If anything, sources such as the C's, Ra and the like have spoken of such 'advanced souls' coming in with a heavier burden in terms of initial strength, weaker muscles, as a challenge, a test... anything less wouldn't be much of a challenge to them would it? A real victor doesn't want freebies, give-away championship belts or the answers to the test ahead of time, that's for the weak,the beginners, as there is no challenge in such 'success'. It is not real, but mere farce that is controlled by others, and not oneself, and isn't this self-control valued by both sides?

If the student cannot muster the muscle to compete, the student isn't ready to learn, let alone win. Suicidal considerations are just part of that challenge and usually visit the student challenger during their Dark Night of the Soul, when they are at perhaps their weakest. What fun, right? And as is said perhaps best in song, "If I can make it there, I'll make it anywhere..." Doesn't that go double for Earth 3Dsts? Earth is like the out-of-town-tryouts for the show of shows. Everyone wants in on the action, every part is guaranteed to bring challenges, strife, struggle, tears and fears of destruction. Isn't that part of losing one's "little town blues"? Gotta learn your part in the production before hitting the big time, and if it was easy, anyone could do it, and no 'advanced soul' would need bother come. Yet they come, to 'help out', but who? Which students are they helping out? Those in 3rd or 4th dSTS? We the students reflect our teachers, perhaps it's the teachers that need remedial attention? If their students cannot pass the simple tests to graduate, what will happen to them? One reflects the other. What good does a teacher do by making it easy on their students? by pulling them out of class early and giving away so many freebies? Isn't that a sign that those 'students' aren't really part of this class of potential graduates?

No pain, no gain. Isn't that the basic premise of the whole recapitulation process of consciousness? Pain to whet the stone and increase the friction, to make you scream out of the slumber of your sleep. Seems only the champions learn to love the process, but then they wrote the rules and continue to do rewrites for each generation that follows in their stead, and if the basic intent is to learn... 'to know thyself', then like any sport that continues to 'advance', the degree of difficulty must increase as well... so, like Oliver, we ask for more...always more... please. ;)

Remember why? This STS realm is said to be 100x more catalytic... imagine trying to learn without pain and suffering. Seems unfathomable doesn't it?