caballero reyes
The Living Force
A good session, thanks.
Session 24 June 2023
- Thread starter Laura
- Start date
Another field of research is Bigfoot. David Paulides spoke highly of the quality of work that Russian researchers produced. Here's a video where he talks about it:
And thank you very much for the sesson. It was very insightful and interesting.
Let us not forget that Bigfoot, Sasquatch or Yeti are indigenous Martians according to the C's:
Session 9 October 1994:
Q: (L) Was Mars ever inhabited?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) By whom?
A: By those you now know as Sasquatch or Bigfoot.
Q: (L) Do they now live on this planet as a result of being brought here by other beings?
A: They are transitory. Do not inhabit on a permanent basis.
Q: (L) Well, how do they come and go?
A: They are the slaves and "pets" of the Lizard Beings.
Q: (L) How did the Sasquatch get here from Mars?
A: Brought by Lizard Beings but they do not inhabit earth.
Q: (L) Why have Sasquatch been seen in remote places throughout history?
A: Put there for menial slave tasks.
Q: (L) Does that mean that whenever Sasquatch have been seen that there is a Lizard nearby?
A: No.
Q: (L) What menial tasks might they be doing?
A: Collecting samples.
Q: (L) Why has everyone who has ever come in contact with Sasquatch commented on the awful odor of them? Why do they stink?
A: Organic functions.
Q: (L) What is it about their organic functions that makes them stink?
A: Sweat.
Here is Ra's take that I referred to on June 6 citing other material on the subject.
The session was in 1981 so deducting 27 years would take us to 1954.
8.6 Questioner: How did the United States learn of the technology to build these land [inaudible]?
Ra: I am Ra. There was a mind/body/spirit complex known to your people by the vibratory sound complex, Nikola. This entity departed the illusion and the papers containing the necessary understandings were taken by mind/body/spirit complexes serving your security of national divisional complex. Thus your people became privy to the basic technology. In the case of those mind/body/spirit complexes which you call Russians, the technology was given from one of the Confederation in an attempt, approximately twenty-seven of your years ago, to share information and bring about peace among your peoples. The entities giving this information were in error, but we did many things at the end of this cycle in attempts to aid your harvest from which we learned the folly of certain types of aid. That is a contributing factor to our more cautious approach at this date, even as the need is power upon power greater, and your people’s call is greater and greater.
Thank you for pointing this out. I assume that where Ra is referring to "Nikola", he means Nikola Tesla, whose papers were immediately seized after his death by US Government forces (the FBI perhaps)? As I pointed out in my earlier post, the C's confirmed that President Eisenhower entered into the Greada Treaty with the Greys in 1953 or 1954, which would explain why the Confederation approached the Russians in 1954 to offer them information, presumably to level things up. Stalin had died in March 1953 and was replaced by Nikita Khrushchev. Khrushchev, although the leader of an authoritarian state, was a more flexible political leader than Stalin and might therefore have been more acceptable to the Confederation. There have been rumours that he and Kennedy were secretly working on a space program together involving a joint mission to land on the Moon (I believe Khrushchev's son has since confirmed this) and the CIA got wind of it and this was perhaps one of the many reasons why John F Kennedy was assassinated in 1963 (Khrushchev himself would be brought down in October 1964 by the hard line Leonid Brezhnev who had the support of the head of the KGB).
However, my reference to 4D STO assistance to the Russians was actually aimed at more recent help than this - in Putin's era rather than the 1950's. I read about it in an article, which I copied a few years ago. I will try and find it.
In the Imminent Alien Disclosure thread, I was very interested in the comments you quoted from the Ra material on Secret Government advanced fleet of spacecraft, which were unmanned computer controlled vehicles that could achieve speeds of 1 1/2 light years in 1981 (this probably faster now):
However, my reference to 4D STO assistance to the Russians was actually aimed at more recent help than this - in Putin's era rather than the 1950's. I read about it in an article, which I copied a few years ago. I will try and find it.
In the Imminent Alien Disclosure thread, I was very interested in the comments you quoted from the Ra material on Secret Government advanced fleet of spacecraft, which were unmanned computer controlled vehicles that could achieve speeds of 1 1/2 light years in 1981 (this probably faster now):
So the Soviet Union, if true, were given the Tesla (or similar) technology as well, probably to prevent the U.S. attacking the USSR while their technological advantage lasted.
If the U.S. secret government already had 573 of these craft in 1981, imagine what they were able to achieve in quantity and quality within the last forty years.
To build all of this stuff must have taken a couple years, and the start of production actually coincides with the end of the Apollo Moon program. Was this the time when rocket technology secretly became obsolete?
These statements tend to tally with what the C's said about how advanced technologically the Secret Government (which works with the Consortium) is:
Session 18 July 1998:
Q: (A) So, it means that Einstein and Von Neumann knew about these other densities? [MJF: I would add Tesla to this list too]
A: Yes, oh yes!!!
Q: (T) Just a thought: having UFT and being able to manipulate different fields within it, creates different effects. So, as we understand it in the apparent present state of science, we have to spin something in space in order to create gravity. But, with the UFT, one small offshoot is that one could create real gravity without spinning anything. So, the problem of weightlessness is really already solved...
A: Elementary my dear Terry, elementary.
Q: (T) So, this whole thing with the space station and all the trouble they are having readapting to gravity when they come back, is all a game...
A: When you "let the cat out of the bag," you create an entire feline "nation."
Q: (T) So, we are capable of "Star Trek" right now?
A: In a sense, but there is so much more than that.
Q: (T) Of course. Most people would say that 'cutting edge' science is 25 years ahead of what we see, and I say it is more like a hundred years, and I am even off? Cutting edge science on this planet is more like 3 or 4 hundred years ahead?
A: More like 30 to 40,000 years "ahead!"
Q: (L) Is that because of 4th density influence and information?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) 30 to 40 thousand years? Let me get that number right...
A: Yes, at least.
This last statement is quite earth shattering when you think about it and this was made in 1998, a quarter of a century ago. They may be even more advanced by now.
However, with all this talk of advanced technology and craft capable of Star Trek warp speeds, it came as a surprise to me when the C's seemed to be dismissive of your question as to whether the Military-Industrial Complex had built a secret fleet of warp drive capable spacecraft in the session dated 17 July 2022:
A: They wish.
This answer seems to contradict Ra telling us that the U.S. secret government already had 573 of these craft in 1981 and what the C's said themselves in the excerpt from the session dated 18 July 1998 quoted above. One tends to equate the US Military-Industrial Complex with the Secret Government and the Consortium. How do we square this?
Perhaps the answer may lie in what the C's said in the recent session dated 25 February 2023:
Perhaps the answer may lie in what the C's said in the recent session dated 25 February 2023:
Q: (seek10) Forum member Aragorn wants to ask: "You've said that the Secret Government has technology that is thousands of years ahead of what exists publicly. If Russia is such a threat to the plans of the PTB, why don't they use this superior technology to destroy Russia?"
A: Who said that the "secret government" was aligned with that goal?
Q: (L) So I guess they're not necessarily aligned with that goal. And is the secret government human?
A: No
The interface between the alien secret government and the US Military-Industrial Complex may be the mysterious Consortium since the C's referred to them as separate things in the following exchange from the session dated 31 July1999:
Q: That's what I thought. Now, you told us that the Montauk experiment was something that began in the 1920s. All of the stories say that the Navy was trying to make ships invisible to radar for defensive purposes. That's the story. My question is: is that just a cover story?
A: No.
Q: Is that, in fact, what they were attempting to do?
A: Close.
Q: Can you get me any closer to it? What were their intentions?
A: Convergence of interests: US Navy, Secret Government, Esteemed physicists, Consortium, Aliester Crowley [it is curious they should add him], mind programming and psy-warfare
[....]
Q: Are the efforts of the Germans, Russians, and the Americans combined at the present time?
A: At some levels they are combined, yes.
Q: Would you be able to evaluate the efforts of the three and say which one, at the present time, is the most advanced?
A: Does not work that way.
Q: Why does it not work that way?
A: Advanced goes to Consortium.
Q: Are you saying that when work of this kind gets to a certain level, it gets absorbed into the Consortium?
A: Close.
See also the session dated 21 September 2002:
Q: (L) I am curious about this object that was seen in orbit around the Earth by an amateur astronomer. As soon as he announced it, it suddenly was explained away as an old rocket booster that was orbiting the Sun, and it has now been recaptured and is in orbit around earth. Yeah, right. Since 1969 it's been orbiting the Sun. Is this an old, cast off rocket booster?
A: No.
Q: (L) What is it?
A: High level scanner of sectors.
Q: (L) Like a radar? A satellite?
A: Similar, but more advanced.
Q: (L) Who does it belong to?
A: High level consortium.
Q: (L) Human or alien?
A: Both.
Q: (L) What was this thing seen off of Hollywood recently which was claimed to be an ICBM being launched?
A: Nonsense. Flight of density transiting craft.
Hence, the Consortium seems to be an organisation comprised of both humans and aliens (they have also said elsewhere that it is a 3/4th density Consortium that was responsible for shooting down the Space Shuttle) who possess highly advanced technology that can transit densities. Can we take it then that when Ra said the United States had 573 warp capable spacecraft in 1981, did he really mean the Consortium, since the secret government appears to be wholly alien?
I would certainly appreciate people's thoughts on this.
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Sheeba
Padawan Learner
Thank you for this amazing session. And thanks for the deSouza tread where so much abduction material is collected.
I am one of those who have experienced abductions from childhood up to now (70 years).
I am quite familiar with the TDARM type of abduction and it is liberating to read C's explanation. If you remember Frodo's experience when the Black riders, the Nasgul are nearby, this is a good picture of how I experience it.
(Something pulls me (I'm thinking electromagnetism/magnetism)).
I mean I've read, and recently, that C's hinted that it might be myself, "myself IN the future" that could be the drive force behind an abduction.
I have searched and searched the forum, but cannot find my way back to this statement. If I remember correctly, this will be able to open new perspectives . May be it is all wishful thinking.
I am one of those who have experienced abductions from childhood up to now (70 years).
I am quite familiar with the TDARM type of abduction and it is liberating to read C's explanation. If you remember Frodo's experience when the Black riders, the Nasgul are nearby, this is a good picture of how I experience it.
(Something pulls me (I'm thinking electromagnetism/magnetism)).
I mean I've read, and recently, that C's hinted that it might be myself, "myself IN the future" that could be the drive force behind an abduction.
I have searched and searched the forum, but cannot find my way back to this statement. If I remember correctly, this will be able to open new perspectives . May be it is all wishful thinking.
maguenette
Jedi Master
Thank you for this session.
All this you wrote MJF (appreciating the assembly of quotes/info you posted!) really makes me wonder why Russia/Ukraine conflict is grinding on, perceived only as a meat grinder with Russia having the best weaponry and organization. So far as I can figure, Ra meant the Consortium, and the use of higher levels of weaponry either isn't happening because it would violate some agreement or it IS being used but those reporting cannot recognize it. If the latter, then is this a collaboration between NATO and Russia at some level for some purpose? How much of the conflict is really just a show on the surface, a life lesson for those involved in the fighting and dying? It can also be manipulation creating negative energy for those who need it, a whole level of set up, as one intention out of many.
I have been accepting the political strife basis of NATO expansion and Russia responding since SMO began. The decline of the West is starkly in plain sight. BRICS seems to be made up of nations that have a smaller footprint for the greater population. (Canada has, if I remember, the highest energy use of most of the nations. In current energy sources.) Earth could support a larger population depending on how humans approached resource use. The level of corruption and bribery, however, is widespread everywhere. Not a pretty picture. And not a simple one. All the quotes in your post suggest a multi-layered vista that all-at-once opens up in my mind. It's humbling to say the least.
Bottom line to my thinking, in answer, the advanced weaponry is in hands of the Consortium, and all the observable combatants seem to be dealing in is nuclear threat.
Well, my mind is boggling at the possible collaboration of both sides as you wrote about above. It's also so heartening that these cooperations happened in the past, anyway. Balance.
Earth catastrophe and some period of subsistence living has been predicted in a transcript, over all, so this advanced tech is not slated to emerge anytime soon, at least visibly? Sidenote - getting free of HAARP and cell towers and other manipulative tech would be a welcome relief from one perspective. I hope!
I like this phrase, 'Nothing last forever, thank goodness!'.
FRV
Padawan Learner
I agree with this. With so much information available at our finger tips it is important to remember how much disinformation there is as well!! Many people with pure intentions can still put out corrupted info like we read in this transcript regrading DeSouza's work.Thank you very much for another fascinating session.
I think the issue of misinformation in DeSouza's work is a good reminder of how careful one should be when reading this kind of material and how important it is to have a network like this.
The final message to stay alert, pray and meditate in the face of the impending increase in chaos is both comforting and frightening.
I am so thankful to have this network to work through so much of material as we can do so much together when we pool our energies together in aligned action.
I didn't realize how negative and fear I have been do to so much chaotic change and diving back into this website and becoming a member has really been helping me become grounded and centered in the middle of the storm.
You make a great reminder to continue to stay vigilant through awareness, prayer, and mediation.
Do you have any specific prayers that help you keep grounded in times of major chaos?
Wandering Star
The Living Force
Using the Dune movie analogy, the spice must flow and Arrakis must continue to be exploited.
Thank you Laura and team for the wonderful session and asking the questions.
In this question, I made few assumptions(based on main stream History and Wiki) to reduce the text size of question.
It looks to me that C's answer is saying that there is a relationship between ritual and IVC. When I mentioned, Dravidian Lineage, it is the role of Sankaracharya in defeating Buddhists in his theological debates and also contributing for medieval Bhakti movement.
But C's repeating of "but see previous answer also" for this question leading to another direction which I was not considering. This needs some explanation.
9/16/1995
Implications of this answer is VERY interesting. I wrote the rationale behind this question in this post. But, C's answer broadened the implications.
In this question, I made few assumptions(based on main stream History and Wiki) to reduce the text size of question.
- Romani's (Migrants from central and North Western India around 500 AD and 1000 AD) are Gypsies.
- Romani/Gypsies are remnants of IVC
- When and Where this genetic Modification happened? - It is much before 4098 BC. It is reasonable to say it came some where nearer to IVC ( Modern Afghanistan, Pakistan and North Western part of India).
- When did migrate to IVC: Most probably it is between 4098 - 1033 BCE
Laura's Original 1996 question is based on "Group Cohesiveness" of Gypsies. Gypsies are negligible portion of Indians and they have migrant livelihood and MOST Indians didn't have. But Caste system has "Group Cohesiveness" characteristic, which may not be that relevant in a age of "Nation States". It is hard to say how much Rituals has a relation to "Group Cohesiveness" or not. But, My line of enquiry is identify why "Brahmins" wrote their texts the way they wrote to take advantage of certain tendencies of local people that is ritual belief, though they have no qualms in believing any God of any religion.
It looks to me that C's answer is saying that there is a relationship between ritual and IVC. When I mentioned, Dravidian Lineage, it is the role of Sankaracharya in defeating Buddhists in his theological debates and also contributing for medieval Bhakti movement.
It looks C's are more or less saying genetic modification is not from IVC, but it is from before 4000 BC. Also they also seems to be saying there is something to ritual adherence to the genetic program came through IVC.
But C's repeating of "but see previous answer also" for this question leading to another direction which I was not considering. This needs some explanation.
- Where did this genetic Modification happened? Since Migrants moved to IVC ( Afghanistan/Pakistan/North Western part of modern day India), they might have migrated to other areas too. Modern day "Near East" where Islam reigns supreme is very nearer to IVC. Is there any connection?
9/16/1995
Q: (L) What was the origin of the Hebrew People? A: Genetic construct. Q: (L) Who did this genetic construct? A: Guess. Q: The Atlanteans? A: Not that simple. Q: (L) The lizzies? A: How about joint effort?... Q: (L) Alright, the Orions created the Hebrews. What was the purpose for which this genetic variation was created? A: Manipulation.... Q: (L) And what was the desired result of the Hebrew genetic manipulation? A: Further control through the fostering of mistrust and hostility, leading to enslavement and warring. … Also accomplished renewed and invigorated 3rd to 4th density "feeding." |
I picked up this question from John Desouza's book as I wrote it here. it looks the entire human history is a 4D STS movie script , nothing is left to chance.
Tindaro Martino Curione
Padawan Learner
This is exactly what is being pushed lately by Michael Salla and his alleged insider JP. The "Ant People" are going to welcome us underground and show us how to extend our lifespan. The article you provided sounds like it could have been the script for this interview:
Visits to King of Ant People and Ancient Moonbase
JP currently serves in the US Army and recently completed a mission to an underground Florida location as part of a team of eight covert military personnel seeking information about a sleeping gian…
exopolitics.org
This is exactly what is being pushed lately by Michael Salla and his alleged insider JP. The "Ant People" are going to welcome us underground and show us how to extend our lifespan. The article you provided sounds like it could have been the script for this interview:
Visits to King of Ant People and Ancient Moonbase
JP currently serves in the US Army and recently completed a mission to an underground Florida location as part of a team of eight covert military personnel seeking information about a sleeping gian…
I recall reading Corey Goode and David Wilcock in their revelations about the underground civilisation in their Cosmic Disclosure series, which never rang true. Salla seems to have been involved with that crowd. See: Cosmic Disclosure Seasons 1 thru 12 transcripts Corey Goode, David Wilcock : Corey Goode, David Wilcock, et al : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive and The Cosmic Secret (2019) - IMDb
Back in the day Wilcock, a promotor of the Ra Law of One material, wrote some pretty good stuff but once he hooked up with Corey Goode, who presents himself as a whistle blower on the secret space programme and promoter of the so-called alien 'Alliance' which is coming to mankind's rescue, his standing in the UFO sphere went completely downhill.
Having recently re-read Morris K Jessup's 1950's book The Case for the UFO (Varo Edition), when reminding myself of what the three gypsy commentators said in their comments about the conflict between the L-Ms (Grey aliens or Zeta Reticulians) and the S-Men (Secret Order members) made me realise that the politics of the underground civilisation may be far more complex than we appreciate from what the C's have told us. Indeed, to this day, insofar as I am aware, the C's have not revealed what the Secret Order is. Here is an extract from the relevant session about the matter:
Session 4 March 1995:
Back in the day Wilcock, a promotor of the Ra Law of One material, wrote some pretty good stuff but once he hooked up with Corey Goode, who presents himself as a whistle blower on the secret space programme and promoter of the so-called alien 'Alliance' which is coming to mankind's rescue, his standing in the UFO sphere went completely downhill.
Having recently re-read Morris K Jessup's 1950's book The Case for the UFO (Varo Edition), when reminding myself of what the three gypsy commentators said in their comments about the conflict between the L-Ms (Grey aliens or Zeta Reticulians) and the S-Men (Secret Order members) made me realise that the politics of the underground civilisation may be far more complex than we appreciate from what the C's have told us. Indeed, to this day, insofar as I am aware, the C's have not revealed what the Secret Order is. Here is an extract from the relevant session about the matter:
Session 4 March 1995:
Q: (L) In the annotated copy of the Morris K. Jessup book, there were three people annotating: Mr.A., Mr. B., and one known as Jemi. One of the references was to the sighting made by Kenneth Arnold. In reference to that sighting, Mr.B wrote: "Don't worry, Jemi, those were LM ships not S men. They are an improved type and were on a training flight. That is why their leader interconnected their force fields, to teach them level tele-control without inducing a fear block." Now, what is an LM ship?
A: Light matter.
Q: (L) What is an "S man?"
A: Secret order member.
Q: (L) What is the secret order?
A: That is for you to discover.
Q: (L) What does it mean that their leader interconnected their force fields to teach them level telecontrol?
A: Self-explanatory.
Q: (L) Jemi's comment on Jessup's discussion on mysterious disappearances of persons throughout history is quite chilling. Written in the margin of the book was: "Hey, if he only knew why he'd die of shock!" To what does this refer?
A: We cannot reveal this at this "time."
Q: (L) So you are saying that there is a whole lot more to this situation and what is going on on this planet than even we have been told at this time?
A: Of course.
Q: (L) So if there is a lot more to this, would we, knowing what we know, "die of shock" if we knew the rest?
A: Maybe.
Q: (L) Well, that is not pleasant. Okay, Jessup wondered in his book if aviators could be frozen by space ships and carried away in a field of invisibility. Mr. B commented in the margin: "If only he knew by experience, he would keep silent and not write or speak of it ever again in his lifetime. He couldn't speak of it, for, you see Jemi, it paralyzes one's sense of time and nullifies mental cognition, functioning and memory. So he has no knowledge, he could not have, he is only guessing."
A: Okay.
Q: (T) Okay what?
A: Exactly correct!
Q: (L) There are a lot of terms in this book...
A: Too much data.
Q: (L) Well, here are the terms: Mothership Homeship Deadship Great Ark Great bombardment Great return Great war Little men Forcefields Deep freezes Undersea building Measure markers Scout ships Magnetic and gravity fields Sheets of diamond Cosmic Rays Force cutters Undersea explorers Inlay work Clear talk Telepathing Burning coat Nodes Vortices Magnetic nets and what happens to people, planes and ships that have disappeared.
The three commentators of Jessup's book explain the origin of odd storms, clouds, objects falling from the sky, strange marks and footprints and other things we have not solved.
As you can see from the above, the C's would not divulge the name of the secret order concerned. I have pondered this matter and tried to draw links between this order and the Nation of the Third Eye, which the C's described as Terran (human - Aryan) civilisation under the surface. I mention this because the C's also said this group were the inspiration for Masonic lore and Illuminati, too. The Freemasons and the Illuminati are, of course, human secret societies. When Laura asked how the Masons related to the Illuminati, the C's told us that the Masons are the low level branch. In turn, the Illuminati seem to be connected to the mysterious Quorum. The C's discussed the relationship between the Illuminati and the Quorum in the session dated 31 October 2001:
Q: (L) On a number of occasions we talked about the quorum and the Illuminati. They both seem to be the highest levels of secret organizations. What is their relationship to each other?
A: Quorum mostly alien; illuminati mostly human.
Q: (L) Well, the quorum has been described...
A: Meet; two halves of whole.
Q: (L) Well the quorum seems to be described as being in touch with the Cassiopaeans, that is, yourselves, which you have described as beneficial beings, is this correct?
A: Close.
Q: (L) The illuminati has been described as being behind or with the brotherhood [i.e., the Brotherhood of the Serpent] which has been described as being in connection with the Lizard beings...
A: Close. But not that simple.
This seems to connect the Illuminati with the Reptilians, who are evidently separate from the Terran Nation of the Third Eye, since the C's had said earlier that the Reptilians had created the Brotherhood:
Q: (L) Who was the originator of the Brotherhood of the Serpent as described in the Bramley book?
A: Lizard Beings
But then we also have the Rosicrucians, another secret brotherhood, who the C's said were connected to both the Freemasons and the Illuminati in a roundabout way:
Session 21 December 1996:
Q: (L) Are the Rosicrucians connected to the Masons?
A: In a roundabout away.
Q: (L) Are the Illuminati connected to the Rosicrucians in any way?
A: Same.
However, the Rosicrucians seem to have originated with a group called the Rosteem, who were connected in some way with Rostau (rose cross), which was the ancient name for Giza where the Great Pyramid is located. The 4th density STS Rosteem seem to have entered into a pact or covenant with the Elohim, a group which was originally human but became transdefinitive and variable as entities:
Session dated 7 March 1995:
Q: (L) Who were the Elohim of the Bible?
A: Transdefinitive. And variable entities. [...] First manifestation was human, then non-human. [...]
Q: (L) Well, what brought about their transformation from human to non-human?
A: Pact or covenant.
Q: (L) They made a pact or covenant with each other?
A: No, with 4th density STS.
Q: (L) Well, that is not good! Are you saying that the Elohim are STS? Who were these STS beings they made a pact with?
A: Rosteem, now manifests as Rosicrucians.
Q: (L) What is their purpose?
A: As yet unrevealable to you.
The Rosteem-Elohim covenant may in turn be related to the Nordic Covenant, which the C's said was made between humans and humans, but some of the other.
Could the Rosteem be these S-Men or Secret Order members?
Session dated 7 March 1995:
Q: (L) Who were the Elohim of the Bible?
A: Transdefinitive. And variable entities. [...] First manifestation was human, then non-human. [...]
Q: (L) Well, what brought about their transformation from human to non-human?
A: Pact or covenant.
Q: (L) They made a pact or covenant with each other?
A: No, with 4th density STS.
Q: (L) Well, that is not good! Are you saying that the Elohim are STS? Who were these STS beings they made a pact with?
A: Rosteem, now manifests as Rosicrucians.
Q: (L) What is their purpose?
A: As yet unrevealable to you.
The Rosteem-Elohim covenant may in turn be related to the Nordic Covenant, which the C's said was made between humans and humans, but some of the other.
Could the Rosteem be these S-Men or Secret Order members?
In the I.A.D. thread I have conflated the "Secret Government" with the Deep State/black government/Military Industrial Complex.
The craft mentioned by Ra in 1981 must have been products of the latter. The S.G. actually has 4D technology hardware ('40,000 years ahead') while the Deep State/M.I.C. stuff production might have been produced beginning somewhere in the 1970s.
This is because of the technological split between 3D Deep State and the 3/4D S.G.. Only the latter has the 'real deal'.
The reason I had asked this question was to get rid of disinformation artists like Michael Salla, Corey Goode, David Wilcock and William Tompkins from my bookshelf who always enthuse over the existence of a 'secret space fleet' of 3D origin.
Off they went!