Session 24 October 2009

Great effort on the logos, IMHO. It's probably easy to be taken aback a little because there is lots happening in it. But to me, the symbolism of what is being communicated matters more. Even colours have their special meanings and frequencies. For that reason, the golds and the blues work for me. Although, it's also a matter of personal preference and whatever you tune into.

Laura said:
Yes, there is a reason. If you think about any other religion, they have a symbol that can be drawn quickly by anyone in just a couple of strokes. In fact, when looking at it, we wondered if the cross might not originally have been the center of the infinity symbol and the rest was just cut off - sort of symbolically cutting off awareness of major portions of reality.

This comment reminded me of a similar symbol, it's been on my mind for a good couple of years now - like infinity. It's all a bit airy fairy and hard to describe in objective terms but please indulge me for a second. I don't know what they mean but they all seem related. Maybe somebody else has an idea.

The first one is quite common and I've seen it in a few places with various descriptions - all different, of course. I've also seen it in a corporate logo or two.

infinity_side.jpg

If a cross symbolises the material plane, then perhaps the one above contains more information and talks about the cyclical nature of material existence (after all, it's cycles within cycles). The matter recycles and it can be aligned in two ways, as in STO/STS. Something along those lines, anyway.

The second one is a flipped version and - to me - represents the "As Above, So Below" principle. I think the "arms of infinity" can also be represented as triangles, although I'm not sure if the overall meaning is then different. As in "circle people" vs "triangle people".

infinity_updown.jpg

Nicholas said:
I like the logo but...I am surprised to see the yin and yang symbols rotated 90 degrees from the crop circle version.

I didn't notice that at first but it's a good catch. Well, both rotate anti-clockwise which is probably the way to go - mind you, the original symbol is usually depicted as spinning in the clock-wise direction (could that be a co-opted reversal??). You could argue that the one on the right should be a mirror image, flipped upside down. But the crop circle isn't like that so I guess that's not the way to go.

When I looked closer and thought about it a bit more, it made perfect sense. I always thought that if the black part (yin, "the shady place") is above the yang part ("the sunny place") - then that describes negative orientation. On the other hand, if yang is on top, then it symbolises positive orientation. I haven't got any sources for that - it's self-quoted.

The FOTCM logo has both of these embedded within the infinity symbol - so to me it's a representation of two orientations - the STO, upward one and the STS, downward one. Like this:

yinyang_up.jpg

yinyang_down.jpg

I dunno, it's all pouring out of me at the moment. Will skip the full breathing program tonight - except for the meditative part. Rather than adding more fuel to the fire, I just need to process it all in an outgoing creative way. Perhaps it means something - perhaps not.

In any case, methinks good job guys - very inspirational...
 
Deedlet said:
Laura said:
7: Take one half of the symbol, count the two horns, then the line of the infinity symbol, then the circle around the yin-yang symbol, the space between that circile and the yin-yang symbol, and you have 7 elements. So, the outside horns represent 1st and 2nd density; the infinity symbol represents 3rd density, the crossroads, the circle around the yin yang symbol represent 4 D, the empty space around the yin yang symbol, enclosed by the circle represents 5 D, and the yin-yang represents the two faces of 7 D, the thought centers of the ALL which are present on both sides: the matter and anti-matter universe. And, of course, the WHOLE thing is the ALL in toto.

I have 2 questions:

1) Where is 6D represented?

Remember the first "split" of 7 D into 6 D is "the yin-yang represents the two faces of 7 D, the thought centers of the ALL"

The "two faces" or the thoughts of Being/Non-Being is 6 D. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

Deedlet said:
2) Is there a reason for the hole within the 'yang' part (white part) of the ying & yang sign? Basically how come it's not fully white?

EDIT:
( hmm, just looking at it again... perhaps the hole in the yang is the representation of 6D?)

The reason for the white dot in the black field is to show that even in darkness, there is "relative" light, or even where all is "bad" there is potential for good to come out of it. The black dot on the white field represents that even where everything seems to be all good, the seeds of "bad" still exist there.
 
The only thing that bothers me is the use of the well-known yin-yang graphics as it could trigger an automatic association to Hinduism or Buddhism in the head of most people, especially the westerners. I love the idea of using the infinity symbol though, I used to use it at a signature in some of my documents in the past :p (saying it is a bug in my text editor to explain it).
Oh, the other thing is the contrast between colorful and soft darkenings (I don't know how to translate he french "dégradés de couleur") of the infinity symbol and the horns with the flat black and white uniformity in the yin-yang elements, just an aesthetic view.
 
Laura said:
Okay, same series of issues that came up when we were trying it different ways here. Different orientations, different colors, plain, etc etc.

First: vertical is simply the number 8 and that is what it looks like.

2: horizontal is the infinity symbol.

3: If you put the yin-yang symbol sideways then it REALLY looks like bug eyes in the infinity symbol.

4: If you take the yin-yang symbol out, you aren't staying as true to the original as possible.

5: We ever so slightly extended the figure 8 so that the infinity symbol would stand out clearly instead of just looking like two perfectly round owl eyes (which is how it looked rendered into a symbol with no crops).

6: The colors are my personal preference though I asked for the infinity symbol to be made a different color because it did not stand out as the "main thing" when it was not a contrasting color. We tried different combinations and, with the colored "horns" gold worked best.

7: Take one half of the symbol, count the two horns, then the line of the infinity symbol, then the circle around the yin-yang symbol, the space between that circile and the yin-yang symbol, and you have 7 elements. So, the outside horns represent 1st and 2nd density; the infinity symbol represents 3rd density, the crossroads, the circle around the yin yang symbol represent 4 D, the empty space around the yin yang symbol, enclosed by the circle represents 5 D, and the yin-yang represents the two faces of 7 D, the thought centers of the ALL which are present on both sides: the matter and anti-matter universe. And, of course, the WHOLE thing is the ALL in toto.

I suppose my main suggestion at this point is to think about the fact that a really good, effective and meaningful logo shouldn't have to be explained. I think just a bit of simplification might really help. It can have more than just the surface obvious meaning, but if it becomes too complex, it loses the force that accompanies clarity and instant recognition/understanding.

Just my two cents - and probably not very helpful - though I like the infinity symbol with the upper and lower two external stripes - for simplicity sake.
 
I too felt there was something about the logo that made it feel awkward. I do like the concept of the logo, but felt the execution of the reflections and highlights took my eye in strange directions, the logo also felt distorted. One reason for the reflections looking like they do is maybe a result of the software trying to add sheen to an object that is actually a 2d vector program, essentially trying to fake a full 3d feel. The yin and yang looks to flat against the high sheen and highlights of the infinity and wave section of the logo, I would say they are not sitting well together.

The geometry of the curves is also an area that i know is difficult to do in this type of program, and to get the curves and arc's to look accurate requires a lot of time and effort. My day job being in the architectural industry as a 3d specialist, i thought I would have a go and see what it would look like produced full in 3d, with the highlights and reflections produced by a 3d program.

Well I am hoping nobody will mind that i have played with the logo, below are some initial tests produced in 3Max. It is can also be animated.

maxfrontview.jpg

Wire frame of geometry.

fotcmlogo001low.png



rendered test image.

fotcmlogo002low.png

More metallic looking version.

fotcmlogo001bwlow.jpg

Black and white

And a couple of frame captures of a 14 sec animation i am running at the moment.
animframecapture01.jpg
 
rolyateel said:
Well I am hoping nobody will mind that i have played with the logo, below are some initial tests produced in 3Max. It is can also be animated.

Not only does nobody mind, but if you will attend to the "polishing up" of the rest of the images, I would very much appreciate it. Our regular image person seems to have gone missing since sending these files over and they need attention and time's a'wastin! How to send the files to you? Via email, or upload them to a server where you can download them?
 
Laura,

Even thought I work predominately in 3d and not 2d, I would still like to take a look a what you need working on to see if I can help in anyway, emailing images or design files up to 10mb is fine. Any larger will need a an ftp server.
Let me know what's needed, what is good what needs polishing, I will also take a critical look myself if that is OK with you, Oh and I can make a start first thing in the morning.

The images that i have done so far if you would like any variation this can also be done too.
 
rolyateel said:
Laura,

Even thought I work predominately in 3d and not 2d, I would still like to take a look a what you need working on to see if I can help in anyway, emailing images or design files up to 10mb is fine. Any larger will need a an ftp server.
Let me know what's needed, what is good what needs polishing, I will also take a critical look myself if that is OK with you, Oh and I can make a start first thing in the morning.

The images that i have done so far if you would like any variation this can also be done too.

Thanks. I'll get it on a server and send you the login via email.
 
Such a beautiful image. However, is it just me, or does it seem to be morphing into something unintended?
 

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rolyateel said:
Even thought I work predominately in 3d

If so, then the Yin-Yan pieces may be 3d-balls rather than 2d-disks. You may like to play with this idea as well....
 
Maybe I've missed this in the thread but where do you plan to use the logo ?
As a general rule a logo should be simple so that it can be printed on almost anything without problem, that's why it is a good thing to do it in black and white at first then when you're settled for the logo, add colours and variations.
A highly rendered 3d logo will be a problem with gradients and what-not.

My two cents.
 
cindyj said:
Such a beautiful image. However, is it just me, or does it seem to be morphing into something unintended?

I don't realy get from where you get this assosiation.
 
Tigersoap said:
Maybe I've missed this in the thread but where do you plan to use the logo ?
As a general rule a logo should be simple so that it can be printed on almost anything without problem, that's why it is a good thing to do it in black and white at first then when you're settled for the logo, add colours and variations.
A highly rendered 3d logo will be a problem with gradients and what-not.

My two cents.

All of that is well understood by us and we have the logo in numerous renditions for various purposes.

The reason to decide NOW on colors etc is because this will determine the color scheme of the website that is being designed.

I will also be using the color logo on the membership certificates and cards. It will probably be used on stationary as well. But there are uses for black and white, too.
 

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