Session 24 October 2009

[ana]

I too felt there was something about the logo that made it feel awkward. I do like the concept of the logo, but felt the execution of the reflections and highlights took my eye in strange directions, the logo also felt distorted. One reason for the reflections looking like they do is maybe a result of the software trying to add sheen to an object that is actually a 2d vector program, essentially trying to fake a full 3d feel. The yin and yang looks to flat against the high sheen and highlights of the infinity and wave section of the logo, I would say they are not sitting well together.

The geometry of the curves is also an area that i know is difficult to do in this type of program, and to get the curves and arc's to look accurate requires a lot of time and effort. My day job being in the architectural industry as a 3d specialist, i thought I would have a go and see what it would look like produced full in 3d, with the highlights and reflections produced by a 3d program.

Well I am hoping nobody will mind that i have played with the logo, below are some initial tests produced in 3Max. It is can also be animated.

rendered test image.

I like this one, and how you made the light shine in one side of the logo :)

 

[Buddy]

I like this one, and how you made the light shine in one side of the logo :)

There is something I like about that as well and it seems to have something to do with the space between elements...possibly like a figure-ground kind of thing.

I suppose my main suggestion at this point is to think about the fact that a really good, effective and meaningful logo shouldn't have to be explained. I think just a bit of simplification might really help. It can have more than just the surface obvious meaning, but if it becomes too complex, it loses the force that accompanies clarity and instant recognition/understanding.

Just my two cents - and probably not very helpful... -

Thanks for that! I realized what was bothering me most was that I wasn't 'getting' the knowledge that I assumed was being encoded into the symbol. I guess I'm not ready to see 'the all' at once, yet.

Reading this post, I got excited thinking about the Initates journey as told by Mark Hedsel. Basically, the symbols that were out there for all to see are simple in terms of the knowledge that each is encoded with and intended to convey to the onlooker. But, putting symbols together, in a certain order, or with an unexpectant or esoterically biased mindset, the onlooker might find him/herself tracing the 'All' from the highest level abstraction to the lower, or vice versa, leading to a sudden, deep realization of 'oneness'.

Anyway, that's probably just noise. I thought it might be exciting to have a collection of 7 different symbols, each one hooking into the overall 'unity' template such that when all 7 symbols were physically connected together, all the concepts would be in proper relation. In this scenario, the 'unity' symbol would be the foundation - the one to represent paleo-christianity.

Just my 2 cents, fwiw.

 

[knowledge_of_self]

7: Take one half of the symbol, count the two horns, then the line of the infinity symbol, then the circle around the yin-yang symbol, the space between that circile and the yin-yang symbol, and you have 7 elements. So, the outside horns represent 1st and 2nd density; the infinity symbol represents 3rd density, the crossroads, the circle around the yin yang symbol represent 4 D, the empty space around the yin yang symbol, enclosed by the circle represents 5 D, and the yin-yang represents the two faces of 7 D, the thought centers of the ALL which are present on both sides: the matter and anti-matter universe. And, of course, the WHOLE thing is the ALL in toto.

I have 2 questions:

1) Where is 6D represented?

Remember the first "split" of 7 D into 6 D is "the yin-yang represents the two faces of 7 D, the thought centers of the ALL"

The "two faces" or the thoughts of Being/Non-Being is 6 D. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

Oh that makes sense, thanks for the explanation. :)

2) Is there a reason for the hole within the 'yang' part (white part) of the ying & yang sign? Basically how come it's not fully white?

EDIT:
( hmm, just looking at it again... perhaps the hole in the yang is the representation of 6D?)

The reason for the white dot in the black field is to show that even in darkness, there is "relative" light, or even where all is "bad" there is potential for good to come out of it. The black dot on the white field represents that even where everything seems to be all good, the seeds of "bad" still exist there.

Oh, I already know the reason for the black dot... but thanks for explaining again. Though what I meant was... when you posted the logo, this is what I saw:

and in the place around the black dot, within the white place... it looks hollow/empty. I was just wondering if that was on purpose.

Such a beautiful image. However, is it just me, or does it seem to be morphing into something unintended?

I think it is just you.. because I sure didn't see it like that AT ALL.


rolyateel ,

on those! Personally, I really like the "metallic version" because the colors are much more mellow and the shades are nice. Kudos!

 

[Lizziespreparetogovegan]

Okay, same series of issues that came up when we were trying it different ways here. Different orientations, different colors, plain, etc etc.

First: vertical is simply the number 8 and that is what it looks like.

2: horizontal is the infinity symbol.

3: If you put the yin-yang symbol sideways then it REALLY looks like bug eyes in the infinity symbol.

4: If you take the yin-yang symbol out, you aren't staying as true to the original as possible.

5: We ever so slightly extended the figure 8 so that the infinity symbol would stand out clearly instead of just looking like two perfectly round owl eyes (which is how it looked rendered into a symbol with no crops).

6: The colors are my personal preference though I asked for the infinity symbol to be made a different color because it did not stand out as the "main thing" when it was not a contrasting color. We tried different combinations and, with the colored "horns" gold worked best.

7: Take one half of the symbol, count the two horns, then the line of the infinity symbol, then the circle around the yin-yang symbol, the space between that circile and the yin-yang symbol, and you have 7 elements. So, the outside horns represent 1st and 2nd density; the infinity symbol represents 3rd density, the crossroads, the circle around the yin yang symbol represent 4 D, the empty space around the yin yang symbol, enclosed by the circle represents 5 D, and the yin-yang represents the two faces of 7 D, the thought centers of the ALL which are present on both sides: the matter and anti-matter universe. And, of course, the WHOLE thing is the ALL in toto.

I suppose my main suggestion at this point is to think about the fact that a really good, effective and meaningful logo shouldn't have to be explained. I think just a bit of simplification might really help. It can have more than just the surface obvious meaning, but if it becomes too complex, it loses the force that accompanies clarity and instant recognition/understanding.

Just my two cents - and probably not very helpful - though I like the infinity symbol with the upper and lower two external stripes - for simplicity sake.

I instinctively like this symbol and I think it's wonderful that so so much information is contained within it regarding our understanding of the densities. We have here a symbol which contains a representation of the structure of the entire Universe!

I can also see your point Anart and obviously the complexity of the symbol as Laura has explained it would be completely lost on the un-initiated. However, in certain circumstances it could be possibly stripped down to its basic composition, that being the straightfoward infinity symbol. Just a thought.

My only dislike really is the colour combination. Personally, I think green and gold would work better together (but perhaps that's just the Irish in me :D) or perhaps a more turquoise blue. And I'm not sure that black and gold are very complimentary at all. Just my subjective opinion though and there's no accounting for taste. :)

 

[adam7117]

More metallic looking version.

Black and white

And a couple of frame captures of a 14 sec animation i am running at the moment.

Wowza! That's brilliant! Taking the 2D into 3D makes perfect sense. Really interesting.

One comment, I noticed that you added a spotlight in the bottom right corner. That emphasises one side of the logo. What would the image look like if you add another spotlight in the upper left (symmetry through the centre point)? That might balance the whole a bit more and not direct the eye to the down-oriented yin-yang.

Just a thought. Looking forward to seeing an animation sample!

 

[JEEP]

I really like the metallic version over the rendered test image. The color intensity is much more subdued and takes the garishness out of the design. In fact, the rendered image colors are of such brightness that the overall design tends to freak me out--a bizarre hypnotic effect to me. I'm amazed how just toning down the colors considerably lessens that effect, making the design a lot more appealing and less threatening. I do notice that the original crop circle had the two circles containing the yin-yang symbols totally rounded, like rounded spectacles rather than drawn out into the infinity symbol. I don't have anything against keeping this shape considering its symbolic importance, but I would be interested in seeing the logo depicted with the infinity part less elongated and a little more rounded for comparison. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Laura]

I suppose my main suggestion at this point is to think about the fact that a really good, effective and meaningful logo shouldn't have to be explained. I think just a bit of simplification might really help. It can have more than just the surface obvious meaning, but if it becomes too complex, it loses the force that accompanies clarity and instant recognition/understanding.

Just my two cents - and probably not very helpful - though I like the infinity symbol with the upper and lower two external stripes - for simplicity sake.

I instinctively like this symbol and I think it's wonderful that so so much information is contained within it regarding our understanding of the densities. We have here a symbol which contains a representation of the structure of the entire Universe!

I can also see your point Anart and obviously the complexity of the symbol as Laura has explained it would be completely lost on the un-initiated. However, in certain circumstances it could be possibly stripped down to its basic composition, that being the straightfoward infinity symbol. Just a thought.

My only dislike really is the colour combination. Personally, I think green and gold would work better together (but perhaps that's just the Irish in me :D) or perhaps a more turquoise blue. And I'm not sure that black and gold are very complimentary at all. Just my subjective opinion though and there's no accounting for taste. :)

A really good symbol communicates on an unconscious level - whether the complexity of the symbol is lost on the conscious mind or not. There is probably a lot more to this image than I have suggested by my own brief examination/interpretation.

As always, there are all sorts of issues when a piece of graphic art is in progress of being "done". Some people like green, some like red and orange, some like yellow and purple, but in this case, I think I'm just going to stick with my preferences and awareness of color frequencies. I would like it to be purple and teal, but those colors did not quite work out. Or maybe it was the shade that was chosen by the graphics person who, as I mentioned, has gone missing and hopefully we can get the thing finished without him, get rid of the glitches, and keep on keeping on with progress.

 

[JEEP]

I keep looking at the two examples from the previous page, the rendered image and the metallic image. I definitely like the color choice and the metallic gold of the infinity symbol is very striking to me. In comparing the two, it seems to me that in the brighter colored rendered image, the wave lines are more flat looking, just simple arching shapes, whereas in the metallic depiction, these lines have much more depth, like up and over (top set) and back to front (bottom set). It has more dimension even though it's a flat 2D rendering. Almost like these wave lines are springing from past to present in a sense and the X in the center made by the infinity symbol also has a pronounced forward projection--very strong, solid, and forceful even. It seems to draw my focus and lessens the otherwise hypnotic eyeglass effect of the overall design, which becomes more subtle and a much more positive element, like hypnotic in a good way. The infinity frame and the wave lines are very dimensional with the yin-yang symbols seemingly floating within the encircled area, but also not flat--more like rounded wafers or a campaign button shape, flat underneath but gently rounded on the outfacing surface. I hope I'm making sense in this description and analysis.

 

[Erna]

[quote author=Tigersoap]
Maybe I've missed this in the thread but where do you plan to use the logo ?
As a general rule a logo should be simple so that it can be printed on almost anything without problem, that's why it is a good thing to do it in black and white at first then when you're settled for the logo, add colours and variations.
A highly rendered 3d logo will be a problem with gradients and what-not.
[/quote]

It's true that it was like that, but the times they are a-changin'...

A lot of brands are going the 3D route lately, and I like it! Take Sasol for example, they've broken every rule in the rule book!

Sorry for using such a ponerized corporation as an example.

I particularly like where it's coming apart.

It would be nice if some part could be reflective glossy silver, like a mirror, and the other parts reflect in it. Kind of symbolic of the 3D density coming apart, or becoming something new, gaining another dimension. We're always going to know which crop circle inspired it, it doesn't have to be a flat representation of the crop circle.

Even the yin/yang balls doesn’t have to be solid, just have an obvious resemblance. Maybe they can act as the mirror to the rest of the elements that ‘came apart’. Even some see-through bits would be nice.

...I'm quite sure I'm going to be in the minority on this, if not completely alone! ;D That’s okay, I've been rebelling against 'socially acceptable advertising practices' for long now...

 

[herondancer]

Rolyateel's version seems to have solved the texture issue and the "notches". Were they artifacts of the orginal program used to generate the image?

I really like the metallic version and the colours. The blues are my favourite shades. To me they work well with gold. The flatness of the "horns" as compared to the infinity symbol was kind of jarring at first, but I realized that it was making the point that 3D is really 3D! :P

Herondancer

 

[Nević Nenad]

Can’t wait to see how the final animation render will look :)

I did a try on Laura’s simple version in photoshop. Maybe it will be good for some avatars or something like that. Images in PSD file are bigger then those in preview.


Here is layered PSD file, (3Mb):

_http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?22teyzqnizq



Click on the thumbnail to see it bigger. When it opens in new window click on the image again to see it in its size.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I really like the metallic version and the colours. The blues are my favourite shades. To me they work well with gold. The flatness of the "horns" as compared to the infinity symbol was kind of jarring at first, but I realized that it was making the point that 3D is really 3D!

I've gotta agree. I think that's why I liked the tiny icon on my desktop. The flatness vs. the roundness was probably what was so jarring to me. But the 3D renderings are awesome. No complaints! (But I agree with ark that it might be cool to have the yin-yangs spheres...)

Edit: forgot to add that I like the lighting where one half is lit and the other is in shadow. It also implies duality!

 

[Alejo]

im loving the logo! love the light on it, is very bright, the 3D looks amazing!,

I don't see boobs either , but just a thought on boobs, or breasts:

they represent to me a feminine principle of necessary nourishment for life to be able to grow, maybe the point of difference of a religion not based on a male vengeful, do-as-i-say-or-else-god?? just a thought :P

 

[pete02]

It took a bit to grow on me but I definitely think the brighter metallic look is nicest imho. I have always been a fan of the black and white as well so I took that image and modded it a little for my desktop but the blue and gold came out really nice when turned metallic with the 3D.

Nice job to all efforts involved, (even if you decide to change it)

 

[Akopirnas]

1. "Here is the basic, simplified logo: ..."

How could happen that gold basic logo in the coloured version become black in a b/w version..?
If it is not black in a b/w version, so it is not basic symbol?


2. "Okay, Here is the color version of the complete logo:..."

Not оkay, because four colours at such quantity of symbols transform that logo into dirty porridge, besides in b/w version we receive two additional shades of grey.


3. "And the B/W version of the complete logo: ..."

Another question: who needs more volume, why it can't be a simple and clear flat character..?
Crop circles through negative, inverted image receive own "volume" due to geometry of lines, composition, philosophy, but not due to a bulge and forms smoothing.
Another practical aspect: rich or modest organizations has 2- or 3-coloured logo and young religious organization want to pay for the full-colored printing (e.g. envelopes, T-shirts) because of logo with rainbows..?


4. Variants/sketches:

​