lilies said:
Q: (L) [..]Something that's been on my mind is the difficulty so many group members have in getting themselves moving to do useful things, helpful things that help the network, help the group, help the Work, and to keep going. [..]
I think, the difficulty mainly arises from strength of Being and nothing can be done about it, as much as can be done about people's genetically inherited height, muscle-strength [individual genetic maximum] and intelligence. A man with an IQ of 80 can try to build his intelligence as much he likes, he will never compete with people on the scale of John von Neumann.
I think,
the strength relevant to your question comes with the package on reincarnation. Soul building can help, sure, but people can be just as easily dragged down as you have seen too many times. Soul building cannot compete with the number of incarnations and strength of Being accumulated during many lifetimes. [*I think* goes for all my statements]
I think this is partly true. There are many who just won't make it because they haven't got the "bottom", so to say. But there are many more who are just wounded and have their brains scrambled and are running programs like crazy. See what the Cs said last session about that.
lilies said:
[..]They sometimes get started, and then they peter out. Sometimes they try something too big, too much, too soon, too fast, and then they get discouraged.
Remember the artist, who did the amazing Secret History I book cover, then disappeared?
What are you talking about? The SHOTW I cover was created in-house using my photograph of one of the stained glass windows at Auch.
lilies said:
All people seem to have accumulated fine-energy reserves for doing **"miracles": Just look at the creators of the book covers, how recently a miracle was done with Pierre's book cover and then the artists Life was shortly, um.. heavily affected. Its almost as if God and the Devil were having these chess matches:
- Oh, you say your people can Do "miracles"? - argues the Devil, eyeing the Human chess pieces on the board - Well let's see how fast I will drag them down!
- You can certainly try and we will see - counters God.
I wouldn't call doing that book cover a "miracle" - it was simply the back and forth work between the author/publisher and an artist who volunteered. Many suggested images were created based on the specs given, and changes made when one thing or another wasn't satisfactory, and eventually, it got shaped into what was wanted, more or less.
As to what occurred to the "artist", the only relationship I see is that perhaps the volunteering to do the cover was an act aimed at trying to make the self feel better because there were underlying issues and it just wasn't enough - it didn't solve the underlying issues which only continued and got worse. That is actually sometimes the motivation behind offers for help which is why we usually don't make it too easy. We would prefer that the person wants to give to the Universe out of love than that they are giving to get something in return.
lilies said:
I think for some its one-time only, then this precious energy, they gained through their Lifetime(s) is spent and it takes many-years if not a lifetime(s) to gather it again. The other half of people are capable to generate and store this special charge temporarily more times and discharge it on QFG projects, having somewhat greater strength of Being - greater also varies - is in this group you network with here.
I think that is way too dramatic and convoluted an explanation. There may be some truth to it, but it's not the main issue.
lilies said:
Difference in strength of Being:
I think, people helping this group - on and off - chip away from their accumulated special-type, super-refined, precious energy-reserve and it depends on their strength of Being, how fast their sensitive accumulator is again refilled. This is either Gurdieff's large accumulator and then the people - you asked the C's about - have serious difficulties pumping energy from their large accumulator OR ..
..as I hypothesize: for every soul there is a small pouch of super refined divine creative energy ~ refilling very slowly or even in some cases only a one-time charge per incarnation is available: these are the people, who do great for a short while, then disappear. That's why - I think - people are blinking in and out on your Work-need-to-be-Done Radar screen, like the radio transmitters of field agents from the well know Hollywood Bond spy movies.
Actually, there is a simpler and more elegant explanation: people offer to do something with strings attached/expectations and we prefer that people see the AIM and step up to the plate on behalf of the Universe. When the strings are exposed, they move on to another target.
lilies said:
And I would like to know what is it about this group here that has made us able to put our noses to the grindstone for years and years... even under the most trying of circumstances.
Remember, you had help and donations of many thousands of euros and dollars from early on, I remember my first 1000€ when the network traffic from Pentagon Strike video created stellar server costs. For many of us one euro costs a couple hundred of our own money! (1€ = 280 ~ 320 HUF for example, in Russian rubels it is even worse) This diabolical difference in exchange rates [thanks to the bankers], and resultant real worth of salaries divided by 4 or 5 compared to real worth of US salaries (real worth = how many kilos of meat you can buy for example) is enough to make a lot of people burn out and never return, or make the return especially excruciating and painful, again remember for these people their lesser strength of Being/Willpower/Soul strength.
Remember that we ran everything on our own money and energy reserves for many years before others joined in to help and the workload became such that we actually had to ask for support.
It sounds to me like your "hypothesis" above is a self-description...
lilies said:
What is the quality that a person needs to be able to get - excuse me for saying this, but - to get their asses in gear, move, and keep moving? What is the needed quality?
Putting people behind you in the sense of this greater group:
I think we managed to present a list for you here for your question during the evening and for us eastern Europeans before dawn: even one from this name list will be a success for the group - since G. had no one to put behind him - if in this groups case he / she can be successfully put and take his her place behind you on the stairs.
You clearly have no clue about the AIM of this group. I notice, also, that you are not a member of FOTCM, thus not admitted to the FOTCM forum so you have no idea about many things.
lilies said:
**"miracles": People doing these at the Chateau then leaving, I have on my heart Henry's book editing jobs
You don't have on your heart the big financial mess he made while pretending to be "doing the work".
lilies said:
and his writing "Depression as a stepping stone",
Based on ideas and information given to him in an effort to help him develop... Many, many, many hours of discussion and the availability of other people to help him when he drew a blank. Seems that your impression of that "miracle" is similar to your impression of Pierre's book cover "miracle".
lilies said:
then there was the scientist Bob and their certainly memorable baby. Oh, there was Alan, hey what happened with Alan?
Obviously, you have a lot of rancor and resentment for things you simply do not understand.
lilies said:
Joe:
By the way while speaking of "miracles", watching the videos, listening to the podcast's, reading the sessions, I observed an amazingly graceful metamorphosis of Joe's psyche - this must be noted!!!, μετάνοια (metanoia, "repentance"), WOW!! Just looking at his comments with awe during the published memorable events and in comparison remembering him during his first public comments / début, the sheer length of his journey, Joe has really become an Alchemist Initiate, wow!!
Considering your issues coming out above, I'm not sure whether to take your remarks about Joe seriously or not. On the off chance that you are serious, I can only suggest that The Work works for some people and not for others (witness Henry et al).
Now, having said all of this, I would suggest that you are in the
