Session 30 January 2010

[Approaching Infinity]

An essential psychopath is a being with a motor- instinctive center and an intellectual center without the potential for a feeling center. They appear to process emotional content in the thinking center.

Remember the C's said:

12 June 2008

Q: (Joe) Is not having an emotional center the same as being a psychopath?
A: Not exactly, but close.
Q: (A***) Does [such an individual] feel any emotions?
A: Not what you call true emotions. But you haven't experienced the full range either. Most of what you experience is chemical, though there is a true emotional component. You are still the "princess in the tower" kept captive by the dragons set to keep you captive.

Gurdjieff’s work suggests normal Men and Women have forgotten their emotion center. It is too painful and horrifying to FEEL with the insults of genital mutilation, vaccination, TV, parental abuse, educational abuse, etc. that are endured during childhood.

If that's the case, then I think these individuals would be considered characteropaths, not psychopaths, as the dysfunction is functional and acquired, not inherent and genetic. That leads me to think that if only OPs can be psychopaths, that the environment of several cultures is such that many of those individuals are susceptible to psychopathic mutations that perhaps non-OPs are not susceptible to.

 

[OMeta]

What I try to understand is why secret goverment do this to Haiti,what is their main goal with this,I think that why they did it isnt becouse of oil or other resources,I mean this secret goverment have power and money,but why are they doing this to Haiti,is it just to show world goverment that they are in charge here on Earth and this is warning from secret goverment to world goverment

It is even worse if true - check this out:
www.worldreports.org/news/262_clintbush_were_stealing_haitis_katrina_cash
and the relevant link mentioned in the above
www.clintonbushhaitifund.org/

 

[go2]

(Psyche) I have a question. When we were discussing with I**** some type of cells that are located mainly in the frontal lobe of the brain, it seems that nobody knows what they are for. They are called spindle cells or "von Economo neurons" if I remember the name correctly. What are their function?

A: Consciousness orientation.

Q: (Ailén) Hmm.

(Andromeda) So I guess having a lot of those would be good?

(Burma Jones) So, is that like a registration bin for consciousness to figure out how to keep itself...

A: Energy directors.

Q: (Joe) Can you get more of them?

A: You may.

Q: (Joe) I wonder if those cells have anything to do with the third eye, like when you do the breathing and you look up...

A: Close, more like a "homing device".

Q: (Joe) A homing device for aliens?

A: Wave reader. {Cs refer to souled humans as “Wave Reading Consciousness Units.}

Q: (Ailén) I**** was saying that they're huge cells. Right? (Psyche) Yeah. She was wondering if they could be related to psychopathy, like the lack of those cells...

A: Oh yes.

Q: (Andromeda) Hmm...

(Ailén) She said there were some studies about schizophrenics not having so many of them also.

(Psyche) They have been studied in whales too.

Gurdjieff’s work suggests normal Men and Women have forgotten their emotion center. It is too painful and horrifying to FEEL with the insults of genital mutilation, vaccination, TV, parental abuse, educational abuse, etc. that are endured during childhood

If that's the case, then I think these individuals would be considered characteropaths, not psychopaths, as the dysfunction is functional and acquired, not inherent and genetic. That leads me to think that if only OPs can be psychopaths, that the environment of several cultures is such that many of those individuals are susceptible to psychopathic mutations that perhaps non-OPs are not susceptible to.

Hi AI, The information on spindle cells and psychopathy is very interesting. The spindle cells develop until about four years of age. I wonder if an environmental factor may be damaging or inhibiting the development of spindle cells in children in some of the so called advanced nations? The statistical info on prevalence of psychopaths suggests a rapid increase in their numbers. It seems the rapid increase would be difficult to attribute entirely to selective breeding. Psychopathic behavior is the problem we face, whether inherited or acquired.

I have read some interesting papers tonight, which suggest spindle cells are fundamental to empathy, humor, intuition, and social interaction. I copied a few paragraphs from the papers and included links for those with time and interest in this subject. I included the papers on spindle cells and humor, as I recall and noticed in the two diagnosed psychopaths I have observed over a several year period, that they never seemed to get humor. They were always puzzled by simple incongruities that make us laugh. Anyway, thanks for the clues. I still have a ways to go understanding psychopathy.

Spindle neurons, also known as VENs, were first discovered in the late 1990's by Esther Nimchinsky working with Patrick Hof and are found in the anterior cingulated cortex, ACC, of various primates. Working with John Allman, an expert on the evolution and anatomy of primate brains, they examined brain tissues of over 50 species. The team found that spindle cells appear in higher primates in greater numbers as species ascend the evolutionary "tree," with a few found in orangutans and tens of thousands in humans. Further research by Allman reveals a second, specific site containing these cells, the frontoinsular, FI, cortex, again only in humans and advanced primates. As Christof Koch, a neuroscientist working at Caltech, explains, these appear to be the only cells unique to humanoids (2). One must now ask, what role do these cells play and why are they only present in the most developed primates?

The ACC is associated with emotions and regulation of autonomic activity (4). The ACC essentially acts as a control hum mediating thought, feeling and the body's response to these feelings (2). The FI also appears to be associated with emotion, in particular, the responses one has to others. Studies by Andreas Bartels and Semir Zeki of University College London show activity in the FI and ACC in response to viewing an image of a loved one. Other studies conform to a pattern of activation in these regions in response to value judgments within a social context (2). The cells themselves possess large axons and dendrites, optimal for rapid transmission of action potentials, and receptors for serotonin, dopamine and vasopressin, which are associated with bonding, emotion and love. This has lead Allman to believe that these neurons are designed for rapid regulation of behavior in within a complex social environment (2), (5). For instance, it is favorable to instinctively know how to react to a loved one in need, there is no need to critically ruminate over her character. While Allman's theories are still speculative, there is certainly merit for further examination of the role of spindle neurons.

The speculation that humor may be a uniquely human cognitive trait (Bergson 1924; Caron 2002) prompted our third hypothesis: humor will activate both anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) and frontoinsula cortex (FI), the 2 regions in which an evolutionarily recent neuron type, the Von Economo cells (previously termed ‘‘spindle neurons’’), are present (Allman and others 2002, 2005). A review of the functional imaging literature reveals that the Von Economo cell regions, particularly FI, are active while reversal learning (O’Doherty and others 2001), decision making under uncertain conditions (Critchley and others 2001), and observing bizarre images of animal/object
chimeras (Michelon and others 2003). Like humor, these paradigms involve incongruity detection and reappraisal and provided the impetus to formally test the hypothesis that humor activates the Von Economo regions ACC and FI.

We propose that the ability to appreciate humor is related to the ability to make rapid, intuitive assessments, a skill that would be particularly adaptive during the
complex social interactions typical of the hominoids and that the von Economo cells are a phylogenetic specialization in the circuitry that underlies such fast and intuitive decisions. It is the convergence of this fast intuition with a slower, deliberative assessment that creates the cognitive mismatch upon which humor is based. A listener ‘‘gets’’ a joke the moment that the initial intuitive interpretation is updated, thus providing the input required to ‘‘recalibrate’’ ACC and FI. We propose that a similar mechanism enables fluent social interaction. This is consistent with a recent study using a placebo paradigm, which suggests that the ACC and orbitofrontal
cortex modulate expectation in a top--down manner (Petrovic and others 2005). Another interpretation involves the regions’ roles in mediating the autonomic changes that are
likely to be induced by humor (Critchley and others 2001; Critchley 2002). Again, this is consistent with the activity we observed in the amygdala and hypothalamus, both of which have descending projections to autonomic output nuclei. Critchley suggests that these 2 regions play a primary role in mediating autonomic changes. These various explanations are not mutually exclusive because the changes in expectation that occur during humor are likely to be associated with fluctuations in anticipatory arousal states. This could be the physiological correlate of the ‘‘release of tension’’ humor mechanism proposed by Freud (1960).

Von Economo neurons (VENs) are a recently evolved cell type which may be involved in the fast intuitive assessment of complex situations. As such, they could be part of the circuitry supporting human social networks. We propose that the VENs relay an output of fronto-insular and anterior cingulate cortex to the parts of frontal and temporal cortex associated with theory-of-mind, where fast intuitions are melded with slower, deliberative judgments. The VENs emerge mainly after birth and increase in number until age 4 yrs. We propose that in autism spectrum disorders the VENs fail to develop normally, and that this failure might be partially responsible for the associated social disabilities that result from faulty intuition.

When we interact with another person we create a mental model of how that persons thinks and feels. We are likely to have initial, quick intuitions about the person, which
are then followed by slower, more reasoned judgments. The mental model is a synthesis of our quick intuitions and our slower deliberations. Intuition uses probabilistic
logic whereas deliberation uses inductive and deductive reasoning. Both intuition and deliberation are influenced by emotional value judgments. Describing subjects with
Asperger’s syndrome, Klin and Volkmar [1] observed, ‘their deficient intuition and lack of spontaneous adaptation are accompanied by marked reliance on formalistic rules of behavior and rigid social conventions’ ([1], p. 102). In this article, we propose that a subset of cortical neurons known as Von Economo neurons have a possible role in
intuition. Our hypotheses are (i) that the Von Economo neurons are an important part of the circuitry responsible for intuition, and (ii) that these neurons are dysfunctional
in autism spectrum disorders, resulting in defective intuition.

We experience the intuitive process at a visceral level. Intuitive decisionmaking enables us to react quickly in situations that involve a high degree of uncertainty which commonly involve social interactions. Frequently we do not have the luxury of sufficient time to perform deliberative cost benefit analyses to determine the most appropriate course of action, but instead must rely on rapid intuitive judgments. ACC and FI are active when subjects make decisions under a high degree of uncertainty [17]. These areas are involved in the subjective experience of pain [25], which is powerfully magnified by uncertainty. These areas are also active when subjects experience guilt,
embarrassment and engage in deception [26–28]. ACC and FI are also active in humor (Watson and Allman, unpublished fMRI data), trust, empathy, and the discrimination
of the mental states of others [25,29,30]. All of these social emotions are influenced by the degree of uncertainty involved. As of yet, we do not know the mechanisms
responsible for the differentiation of the complex social emotions that activate FI and ACC, but we do know that the VENs are a recently evolved population that probably
serves to relay output of the processing within FI and ACC to other brain structures. Their large size suggests that the VENs may relay a fast intuitive assessment of complex
social situations to allow the rapid adjustment of behavior in quickly changing social situations. They can thus be seen as an adaptation supporting the increased complexity
of hominoid and especially human social networks. This is refected in evidence that the capacity for empathy is better developed in chimpanzees than in monkeys [31].
We hypothesize that the VENs and associated circuitry enable us to reduce complex social and cultural dimensions of decision-making into a single dimension that facilitates the rapid execution of decisions. Other animals are not encumbered by such elaborate social and cultural contingencies to their decision-making and thus do not require such a system for rapid intuitive choice.

We hypothesize that the VENs are particularly vulnerable to dysfunction owing to their late emergence in phylogeny and ontogeny, and that such dysfunctions may be part of the pathogenesis of several neuropsychiatric conditions known to involve FI and ACC, such as obsessive-compulsive disorder [32], psychopathy [33] and fronto-temporal dementia (Seeley and Allman, unpublished data).

Abnormal hemisphere distribution might be associated with pathological functioning in various disorders. There might also be abnormalities in the expression of neurotransmitter receptors or dendritic morphology of the VENs, because such abnormalities might be expected disrupt the integration of signals hypothesized to occur in the VENs in relation to reward, punishment and social bonding. As the serotonin 2b receptor is rare in the brain but strongly expressed on the VENs and a specific ligand for this receptor has recently been developed [50], this class of receptor on the VENs and closely related neurons could be monitored in FI and ACC using positron emission tomography. Finally, we suggest that the VENs might also play a role in bipolar and obsessive-compulsive disorder, anorexia, psychopathy and fronto-temporal dementia

*Interestingly two key regions, the anterior insula and anterior cingulate cortex (ACC), involved in affective processing in general and empathy in particular have singularly evolved in apes and humans. Cytoarchitectonic work by Allman and colleagues [22] indicates that a population of large spindle neurons is uniquely found in the anterior insula and anterior cingulate of humanoid primates. Most notably, they reported a trenchant phylogenetic correlation, in that spindle cells are most numerous in aged humans, but progressively less numerous in children, gorillas, bonobos and chimpanzees, and nonexistent in macaque monkeys. Craig [23] recently suggested that these spindle neurons interconnect the most advanced portions of limbic sensory (anterior insula) and limbic motor (ACC) cortices, both ipsilaterally and contralaterally, which, in sharp contrast to the tightly interconnected and contiguous sensorimotor cortices, are situated physically far apart as a consequence of the pattern of evolutionary development of limbic cortices. Thus, the spindle neurons could enable fast, complex and highly integrated emotional behaviors. In support of this view, convergent functional imaging findings reveal that the anterior insula and the anterior cingulate cortices are conjointly activated during all human emotions. This, according to Craig [24], indicates that the limbic sensory representation of subjective "feelings" (in the anterior insula) and the limbic motor representation of volitional agency (in the anterior cingulate) together form the fundamental neuroanatomical basis for all human emotions, consistent with the definition of an emotion in humans as both a feeling and a motivation with concomitant autonomic sequelae

Individuals who are self-aware, as evidenced by being able to become the object of their own attention, experience a sense of psychological continuity over time and space [65]. It has been speculated that any organisms capable of self-recognition would have an introspective awareness of their own mental states and the ability to ascribe mental states to others [66]. A clear sense of self may have evolved to solve at least two kinds of adaptive problems: 1) the self is the repository of the social feedback one receives from others and, 2) it allows one to model and understand the internal, subjective worlds of others, making it easier to infer intentions and causes that lay behind observed behaviors, thus improving interaction efficacy [67]. Interestingly, the development of self and other mental state understanding is functionally linked to that of executive functions, i.e., the processes that serve to monitor and control thought and actions, including self-regulation, planning, cognitive flexibility, response inhibition, and resistance to interference [68]. There is increasingly clear evidence of a specific developmental link between the development of mentalizing and improved self-control at around the age of 4 [69]. The development of cognitive control is related to the maturation of the prefrontal cortex [70]. In addition, there is hard evidence that a region around the paracingulate sulcus in the medial prefrontal cortex plays a specific role in mentalizing. This region contains spindle cells, a class of large projection neurons found only in great apes and humans, which are thought to be involved in coordinating widely distributed neural activity involving emotion and cognition [71]. This region has been found to be reliably activated by mentalizing tasks of various cognitive difficulties, ranging from judging the emotion in another person's gaze, to detection of intention in simple dynamic animations, attribution of intention to cartoons characters, story comprehension, detection of social transgression, and appreciation of humor [72].

Thus human empathy cannot be described only as a simple resonance of affect between the self and other. Indeed, empathy is both about sharing and understanding the emotional state of others in relation to oneself. The capacity for two people to resonate with each other emotionally, prior to any cognitive understanding, is the basis for developing shared emotional meanings, but is not sufficient for empathy. Such an understanding goes beyond this reflex-like response. It involves an explicit representation of the subjectivity of the other and a minimal self-other distinction. Recent neuroimaging investigations of the perception of pain in others support such a view (e.g., [55,57,58,112]). Indeed, all these studies have shown that part of the neural network (including the anterior cingulate cortex and the anterior insula) mediating self-experienced pain is shared when empathizing or observing the pain in others, and also that non-overlapping aspects within these regions are specifically activated for the self or the other. This supports the idea that personal and vicarious experiences at some level differ physiologically [120] and result in qualitatively distinct responses. Finally, empathy also necessitates emotion regulation in which the ventral prefrontal cortex, with its strong connections with the limbic system, dorsolateral, and medial prefrontal areas, plays an important role.

We believe that a greater understanding of the underlying computational processes and their neural underpinnings can contribute to a better characterization of empathy disorders in psychopathology.

Edit:

The bureaucratic and hierarchical structure of modern societies must account for the success of psychopaths. After studying these creatures in the literature it seems they have such deficiencies of function, that they would be spotted quickly in a society based on extended personal interaction of families and communities. I am unsure how they are often characterized as being such efficient machines that we can't spot them. It must be they just keep on the move or stay hidden behind their desks, limousines, and professional licenses or we are so damaged and programmed to think they are normal we can't see their dysfunction.

*Added later

 

[Ollie]

... I still have a ways to go understanding psychopathy.

Join the club! Thanks for posting the quotes, very interesting.

 

[Yossarian]

Regarding the numbers of path's in various nations, this seems to be a very relevant transcript quote found here: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=15790.0 BTW, there's some transcripts here that are "new":

Quote from: 29 July 2006
Q: (J) Over 11 years ago you said that the Nazi master race idea was for the purposes of creating a breeding ground for the reintroduction of the Nephilim for total control of 3rd density prior to elevation to 4th, and that this failed. At the time Laura asked what their plan was now, and you said that you could not say because she would seek to reveal it leading to her destruction. So my question is, (with mirth) have we evolved to a high enough degree that we can know now?

A: You already figured it out

Q: (everyone looks to Joe as though he figured something out. Joe: well I didn’t really figure anything out, I was just thinking about it and decided that the new plan was to introduce the psychopaths in order to effect the total control of the planet along certain lines)

A: And “culling” the non-psychopaths

This seems to confirm the most recent revelation

 

[StandingOnTheEdge]

Dear go2,

Thank you for providing the links to spindle cell information, and thank you to the rest of the forum for such depth of discussion.

Just yesterday it occurred to me that I would like to begin research on a play about being a Fool. It was spurred by participating in a play reading that centered on Robert Armin, a real-life actor in Shakespeare's plays. He originated Feste in "12th Night", and he wrote a book about Fools in his day called a "Nest of Ninnies". I was very disturbed by the outcome of the play, because the author had the fool of the manor, who I thought would be the hero, executed for raping his master's daughter.

I started to think about what we laugh at today vs. what people laughed at then. And now I'm realizing that possibly psychopaths only laugh at the sufferings of another...pratfalls, pie in the face, slapstick, etc. My friend who is a professional clown and my avatar on this forum wants to work with me again, so I'm thinking that the Fool would be a ripe topic for the stage (not that I want to steal any thunder from the play we read).

I'll post this idea on the "What's on Your Mind" section, because I would love to hear some brainstorming from all of you.

Thanks again!

 

[WIN 52]

Lobaczewski talked about pathocracy where 100% of the psychopaths were eventually involved in the government. So if you think about all the places where they can be employed - because they are attracted by the system and feel no conflict about what they are doing - then I think we'll find that the numbers fit. Corporations, drug companies, teachers, doctors, psychologists, lawyers and judges, government workers (like IRS), police forces, military, city and county governments all over the country, and so on.

I too was surprised at the number but after reading Daniel's detailed breakdown (thanks!) it seems to fit quite well.... I wonder what the numbers are for Japan...
I think what Laura wrote above is the reason we don't personally encounter them as often as we'd think. Especially in politics and large corporations - It's not often we are around these 'high profile' people (and not that we'd want to) so that's good. Unfortunately their influence due to having such authority brings along with that ponerization of society as Lobaczewski details... it's quite disturbing to see the whole process unfold before our very eyes!

I was involved in import/export with China in the 90's. I can verify this as being the facts, both in Canadian politics and Chinese politics.

 

[WIN 52]

Homosexuals do not predate on children or damage them for life. Homosexuals engage in consensual love relationships, just like heterosexuals. Yes, there is societal pressure that makes life for homosexuals difficult, sometimes very difficult - but it is not the same as the legal, moral and psychological condemnation that is leveled at pedophiles, and rightly so.

I was raised in the Catholic church. There was nothing loving about that part, predatorial but not loving.

 

[anart]

Homosexuals do not predate on children or damage them for life. Homosexuals engage in consensual love relationships, just like heterosexuals. Yes, there is societal pressure that makes life for homosexuals difficult, sometimes very difficult - but it is not the same as the legal, moral and psychological condemnation that is leveled at pedophiles, and rightly so.

I was raised in the Catholic church. There was nothing loving about that part, predatorial but not loving.

Could you clarify, WIN? Where did I say that pedophiles were loving?

 

[vinny]

Homosexuals do not predate on children or damage them for life. Homosexuals engage in consensual love relationships, just like heterosexuals. Yes, there is societal pressure that makes life for homosexuals difficult, sometimes very difficult - but it is not the same as the legal, moral and psychological condemnation that is leveled at pedophiles, and rightly so.

I was raised in the Catholic church. There was nothing loving about that part, predatorial but not loving.

I'd just like to clarify, because of anart's reply that you quoted, it implies you are making a connection - you're not equating homosexuality with catholicism? That makes no sense, and would be comparing 'apples and oranges'.
Being homosexual doesn't automatically make you a Catholic Priest. Or a Neo-Con. Or a saint. or anything else.

 

[Hildegarda]

Homosexuals do not predate on children or damage them for life. Homosexuals engage in consensual love relationships, just like heterosexuals.

I was raised in the Catholic church. There was nothing loving about that part, predatorial but not loving.

In the quote there is also a word "consensual". Meaning, both parties agreeing willfully and in full awareness. Therefore, no sexual relationship between an adult and a child can possibly be consensual. So whatever you are talking about cannot be "loving", neither is Anart saying that it is "loving".

also, many child molesters are married and even have relationships with opposite sex outside of the family. Pedophilia is a crime of opportunity, i.e., they choose kids because they have access to them and can overpower and intimidate them. Even if a person happened to predate on children of the same sex, that doesn't make him/her, strictly speaking, homosexual.

 

[WIN 52]

I did not make that connection, as I considered myself to have given concent to the activity. I also was able to stop the activity, in the process, as a decision I made that I was not interested in being part of this type of behaviour. I was about 15 at the time.

Reading this just brought the event back in my full memory. There was nothing loving about it. Now thinking of this as pedophilia, I can understand the statement more clearly. This activity was with my cousin who was 17. He was the one going to a seminary, training to be a priest. He said all the guys do this, here I'll show you how it works, bend over, isn't this fun, now you try it. I could not bring myself to perform the act. Those scars are deep and seriously affected my life negatively from that incident forward.

Does that help understand my comments?

 

[anart]

I did not make that connection, as I considered myself to have given concent to the activity. I also was able to stop the activity, in the process, as a decision I made that I was not interested in being part of this type of behaviour. I was about 15 at the time.

Reading this just brought the event back in my full memory. There was nothing loving about it. Now thinking of this as pedophilia, I can understand the statement more clearly. This activity was with my cousin who was 17. He was the one going to a seminary, training to be a priest. He said all the guys do this, here I'll show you how it works, bend over, isn't this fun, now you try it. I could not bring myself to perform the act. Those scars are deep and seriously affected my life negatively from that incident forward.

Does that help understand my comments?

Yes, you are conflating homosexuality with predation and that's not the case. Your cousin was a sexual predator. Sexual predators are heterosexual and homosexual but all heterosexuals and homosexuals are not sexual predators.

 

[tracer]

Q: (Joe) That's 75 million people in the US.

(Burma Jones) That's a lot of psychopaths.

What accounts for the wide divergence of Timorone Cassiopaea’s statistics of the prevalence of psychopaths from the research of Dr. Robert Hare, who places the figure for North America at 1 percent? Is it possible that Timorone Cassiopaea has redefined psychopathy? Is it possible that Timorone Cassiopaea’s figure of 23 percent of the population of the United States being psychopaths is based on understanding psychopathy as existing on a continuum?

It is noted in the research that most psychopaths are males. This would mean that approximately 40 percent of American males are psychopaths. I have lived in the USA and met thousands of people in my lifetime. I have read all the research on psychopathy referenced on this forum. It is inconceivable to me, that Timorone Cassiopaea is accurate in these statistics, unless there is a different definition of psychopathy from that of Hare, Cleckley, and Lobaczweski. Or perhaps, I am missing something.

Hi,
And how do you classify souled individuals who have consciously decided to became evil? Do you think they are included in data given by Timorone Cassiopaea?
Psychopaths are corrupted OPs and these individuals are not. They do have souls. Black souls.
How do you think?

Individually souled beings are not OPs nor can they be defective OPs, i..e psychopaths. I doubt the C's would use the word psychopath differently than Laura and this group. In fact, I believe they even show this in the discussion of Hitler, but it has been awhile and I may not remember exactly.

Dear Breton,
Please do not put words in my mouth. I didn't say that individually souled beings ARE OPs nor they CAN be defective OPs! Please carefully re-read what i wrote. I didn't say anything like that.
As far as Hitler is concerned and if my memory serves me right he was not OP and he was resting in 5D waiting for 3D incarnation.
So if he was determined as psychopath in the session or discussion it means that psychopaths are not just "failed OPs" only and could have higher bodies?
Does it sound logical to you?

 

[Breton]

Q: (Joe) That's 75 million people in the US.

(Burma Jones) That's a lot of psychopaths.

What accounts for the wide divergence of Timorone Cassiopaea’s statistics of the prevalence of psychopaths from the research of Dr. Robert Hare, who places the figure for North America at 1 percent? Is it possible that Timorone Cassiopaea has redefined psychopathy? Is it possible that Timorone Cassiopaea’s figure of 23 percent of the population of the United States being psychopaths is based on understanding psychopathy as existing on a continuum?

It is noted in the research that most psychopaths are males. This would mean that approximately 40 percent of American males are psychopaths. I have lived in the USA and met thousands of people in my lifetime. I have read all the research on psychopathy referenced on this forum. It is inconceivable to me, that Timorone Cassiopaea is accurate in these statistics, unless there is a different definition of psychopathy from that of Hare, Cleckley, and Lobaczweski. Or perhaps, I am missing something.

Hi,
And how do you classify souled individuals who have consciously decided to became evil? Do you think they are included in data given by Timorone Cassiopaea?
Psychopaths are corrupted OPs and these individuals are not. They do have souls. Black souls.
How do you think?

Individually souled beings are not OPs nor can they be defective OPs, i..e psychopaths. I doubt the C's would use the word psychopath differently than Laura and this group. In fact, I believe they even show this in the discussion of Hitler, but it has been awhile and I may not remember exactly.

Dear Breton,
Please do not put words in my mouth. I didn't say that individually souled beings ARE OPs nor they CAN be defective OPs! Please carefully re-read what i wrote. I didn't say anything like that.
As far as Hitler is concerned and if my memory serves me right he was not OP and he was resting in 5D waiting for 3D incarnation.
So if he was determined as psychopath in the session or discussion it means that psychopaths are not just "failed OPs" only and could have higher bodies?
Does it sound logical to you?

Hi Tracer,

Well I don't think you said "individually souled beings ARE OPs". Is that how you understood my post?

I could try express my previous post in another way: I suggested that I think the C's would not likely use the word psychopath to refer to anyone other than to defective OPs.

So since you and I both understand that individually souled beings are not OPs, then it follows that the C's would not be including individually souled beings in their data in this session. [In this way I offered an answer to your question]

if he was determined as psychopath in the session or discussion

Who said that he was "determined as a psychopath"? Not me. (Who is putting words in whose mouth? :) - well that is no big deal though, really!)

By the way, I took a look at the earlier session(s) discussing Hitler, and the C's have never referred to Hitler as a psychopath (nor did I say they did) and as I searched the transcripts, I don't find any evidence that any of the participants called Hitler a psychopath. I think people in general, who are not involved in this study, often mistake him for a psychopath though, as they just see a man seemingly without conscience and they don't have the concept of defective OPs v.s. individually souled fully STS people. And yes, I see the C's do refer to him as a (single) 5D soul waiting to incarnate again. (And it sounded imminent too!)

So, I could still be mistaken, of course, but so far the C's seem to be using the term the same way that we are using the term. Also the session below might be a good example to show how the C's use the term psychopath.

[quote author=Session July 13, 2002 ]
Q: Mouravieff says that the "pre-Adamic" humans do not have the higher
centers, nor the possibility of developing them in this cycle - which we assume
to be the Grand Cycle you have previously described, the length of which is
around 300,000 years. Is this an accurate representation of "pre-Adamic"
beings?
A: Yes, they are "organic" portals between levels of density.
Q: Based on what Mouravieff has said, it seems to be so that any efforts to
try to raise the consciousness of such individuals is doomed to fail.
A: Pretty much. Most of them are very efficient machines. The ones that
you have identified as psychopaths are "failures." The best ones cannot be
discerned except by long and careful observation.

[/quote]