Session 30 January 2010

[rrraven]

ok lets try and connect some dots....
china 0.9 china has a one child only policy...so each chinese child has two parents and four grandparents to lavish all there attention on this only offspring, I also assume they have the sex education to assist people with having only one child. Conscious conception of a planned pregnancy

spindel cells develop in the first four years of a child how many murders/violence does the average US or Israeli child watch on TV before they are four? just on the news,even?

what else happens to a child in the first 4 years that doesnt happen in china or samoa?

how many unplanned pregnancies by un sex educated mothers in the US ?

Israel...organ transplant...if you were to accept one ,would that choice ,if you know how they acquire those organs,tip you ''over the limit'' and get you to the 95 percent STS to make a ''souled '' path

 

[Hildegarda]

I also assume they have the sex education to assist people with having only one child. Conscious conception of a planned pregnancy

I'm afraid not. Abortion has been the main form of reproductive control there for tens of years and remains so (///http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/07/30/china.abortions.millions/index.html), it is improving presently but not very much. A similar situation exists in Russia.

In CHina also, there are noticeable reproductive disparities by region and gender, with many more female fetuses being aborted, especially in rural areas. As a result they have a significant sex-ratio disbalance in the population, with millions of males out of chance of ever finding a mate (///http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5953508).

 

[rrraven]

In CHina also, there are noticeable reproductive disparities by region and gender, with many more female fetuses being aborted, especially in rural areas. As a result they have a significant sex-ratio disbalance in the population, with millions of males out of chance of ever finding a mate (///http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5953508).

ok point taken thanks for that info

but maybe that works as well...''path genes carried on x cromosome....less females equals less carriers

just a thought

 

[Hildegarda]

but maybe that works as well...''path genes carried on x cromosome....less females equals less carriers

You have started with the benefits of sex education and conscious conception for a healthier psychopath-free society. In the same breath, you are now saying that mass-scale aborting of female fetuses can "work as well". That's quite a leap both in logic and across the specter of conscience, unless I am seriously misunderstanding what you are saying.

Essentially, that amounts to saying that the end justifies the means. With an added twist that the end, i.e., the decrease of psychopath percentage in the population as a goal of such policies, is an idea that seems to just have come to you on the fly, there's no evidence of it. The explanation for female infanticide is less value being put on females in a patriarchal society, and you see evidence of this practice pretty much in any traditional patriarchal culture, including European ones. I.e., the very practice looks pretty psychopathic to me.

I don't have an explanation on why the 'path numbers given are relatively low for China. What I am pointing out here is that your thinking appears to be doing loops on this one, and it might be worth slowing down a bit. It can be dangerous to try to fit every observation in somehow supporting a preconceived notion.

fwiw

 

[rrraven]

You have started with the benefits of sex education and conscious conception for a healthier psychopath-free society. In the same breath, you are now saying that mass-scale aborting of female fetuses can "work as well". That's quite a leap both in logic and across the specter of conscience, unless I am seriously misunderstanding what you are saying.

sorry to be so unclear
I meant ''work as well'' in a mathematical sense , as in could that maybe explain the unusual low percentage so to speak

In CHina also, there are noticeable reproductive disparities by region and gender, with many more female fetuses being aborted, especially in rural areas. As a result they have a significant sex-ratio disbalance in the population, with millions of males out of chance of ever finding a mate (///http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5953508).

I did not mean to imply that I condone mass female abortions or one child policy for that matter but with millions of males not passing on their genes....

What I am pointing out here is that your thinking appears to be doing loops on this one, and it might be worth slowing down a bit. It can be dangerous to try to fit every observation in somehow supporting a preconceived notion.

yes I m doing loops and please point out what peconceived notion I seem to supporting
all I m saying is something in China and Samoa IS working so I was looking at what is different there compared to the high ranking countries

I did some searching on Samoa too....they dont have a standing army for example

 

[truth seeker]

I think rrraven and Hildegarda make an interesting point in terms of abortion in China. I thought I read somewhere (I could be wrong) that the genes for psychopathy are passed down by the mother. If they have a habit of aborting female children, this would "cull the herd" of psychopaths. In addition, the males having less women to choose from would also work against more psychopaths being born. Maybe the answer lies somewhere in there.

 

[Nathan]

but maybe that works as well...''path genes carried on x cromosome....less females equals less carriers

That's a good point.

But this only halts psychopath breeding as much as it halts non-psychopath breeding, unless the psychopath lineage is intentionally being stopped short.

My understanding is that the psychopath gene (or genes) is passed on much like colour blindness through the X chromosome. Men only have one X chromosome as well as the Y chromosome, and women have two XX.

So if a woman inherits a normal X chromosome from their mother and a mutated X chromosome from their father (psychopath gene), she will carry the gene on. And in very rare circumstances the gene is expressed in her. Men do not have a second X chromosome to override the mutated chromosome, so if their mother is carrying the psychopath gene then they will inherit it and the psychopathy will be expressed.

Fact is, if there are less women, then you're going to get less psychopaths as well as less non-psychopaths. Unless they have some knowledge in which to avoid mating with psychopaths. Maybe at some point in history China had some sort of knowledge. But I'm thinking it's more likely that the Asian populations were simply not as exposed to as many psychopath mutations. Another words, they managed to avoid much of the cataclysms that would have brought on the recessive mutations. If you could trace back to the sources of where the high concentrations of psychopaths came from (Low Countries may be one example) you could match that with evidence of cataclysm in that area. It seems logical that some populations experienced less mutation. And the lucky populations who did not intermarry as much (such as the Asian countries) would have suffered less as a result.

 

[Hildegarda]

I meant ''work as well'' in a mathematical sense , as in could that maybe explain the unusual low percentage so to speak

thank you for explaining. The preconceived notion I thought you were trying to support is that the modern wholesale restriction on family planning in China has something to do with low number of psychopaths given. First you went for an explanation that looked for a conscious and conscientious reason for this practice, supporting a healthy societal mindset. When that failed, you substituted it with another that looked for a good meaning in something very bad, without stopping to qualify your attitude towards the practice. That is what struck me.

I was looking at what is different there compared to the high ranking countries

If they have a habit of aborting female children, this would "cull the herd" of psychopaths

The state-run family planning is a historically very recent measure in China, began only a generation ago, and the significant gender disbalance it brought is only apparent within this coming generation. At the same time, female infanticide is a many thousand-year old tradition in any patriarchal society, including European cultures. IMO it cannot account for the differences in 'path percentages across the world, and can't explain the low % of psychopaths. Moreover, I would say that as any psychopathic practice, such as child abuse and genital mutilation, it supports psychopathy in society and works to perpetuate trauma and select for psychopaths in subsequent generations.

But I'm thinking it's more likely that the Asian populations were simply not as exposed to as many psychopath mutations.

that's what I am leaning towards also; not ruling out some other societal influences of course also, but not those related to family planning, IMO

 

[go2]

Maybe at some point in history China had some sort of knowledge.

Societies organized as villages or tribes maintain a face to face knowledge of each individual member of the society. Those who exhibit a lack of empathy or self centered predation are eliminated from the gene pool. This social hygiene has a neural basis as evolutionary pressure designed the male brain to exhibit empathy for contributing members of the group, but to experience satisfaction in the suffering or downfall of free riders or predatory individuals. The female brain responds emphatically to one suffering, whether of friend or predator.

Modern civilization is designed to isolate the psychopaths from the selective pressures of village or tribal life. The anonymity and hierarchical structure of society allows these deviant genetics to survive and even thrive as psychopaths are rewarded by status and economic power in the pyramidal structure of political and economic functions. The genes of psychopathy were probably isolated in priesthoods , aristocracy, or economic elites over the last several millennium of transition from tribal and village life to a One World Gulug. The explosion of psychopathic genetics in the West is a herald of a new dark age as the psychopathic parasite destroys the genetic heritage and potential of mankind, and even destroys the psychopathic pyramid of modern civilization which allows psychopath free riders and predators to survive on the energy and creativity of normal humanity.

 

[Laura]

Societies organized as villages or tribes maintain a face to face knowledge of each individual member of the society. Those who exhibit a lack of empathy or self centered predation are eliminated from the gene pool. This social hygiene has a neural basis as evolutionary pressure designed the male brain to exhibit empathy for contributing members of the group, but to experience satisfaction in the suffering or downfall of free riders or predatory individuals. The female brain responds emphatically to one suffering, whether of friend or predator.

Modern civilization is designed to isolate the psychopaths from the selective pressures of village or tribal life. The anonymity and hierarchical structure of society allows these deviant genetics to survive and even thrive as psychopaths are rewarded by status and economic power in the pyramidal structure of political and economic functions. The genes of psychopathy were probably isolated in priesthoods , aristocracy, or economic elites over the last several millennium of transition from tribal and village life to a One World Gulug. The explosion of psychopathic genetics in the West is a herald of a new dark age as the psychopathic parasite destroys the genetic heritage and potential of mankind, and even destroys the psychopathic pyramid of modern civilization which allows psychopath free riders and predators to survive on the energy and creativity of normal humanity.

This sounds to me like the core of a good article for FOTCM site. Doesn't have to be long...

 

[Hildegarda]

Societies organized as villages or tribes maintain a face to face knowledge of each individual member of the society. Those who exhibit a lack of empathy or self centered predation are eliminated from the gene pool.

yes, here is one example, it may have already been mentioned:

///http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-psychopath-means

In a 1976 study anthropologist Jane M. Murphy, then at Harvard University, found that an isolated group of Yupik-speaking Inuits near the Bering Strait had a term (kunlangeta) they used to describe “a man who … repeatedly lies and cheats and steals things and … takes sexual advantage of many women—someone who does not pay attention to reprimands and who is always being brought to the elders for punishment.” When Murphy asked an Inuit what the group would typically do with a kunlangeta, he replied, “Somebody would have pushed him off the ice when nobody else was looking.”

 

[Gawan]

Societies organized as villages or tribes maintain a face to face knowledge of each individual member of the society. Those who exhibit a lack of empathy or self centered predation are eliminated from the gene pool.

yes, here is one example, it may have already been mentioned:

///http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-psychopath-means

In a 1976 study anthropologist Jane M. Murphy, then at Harvard University, found that an isolated group of Yupik-speaking Inuits near the Bering Strait had a term (kunlangeta) they used to describe “a man who … repeatedly lies and cheats and steals things and … takes sexual advantage of many women—someone who does not pay attention to reprimands and who is always being brought to the elders for punishment.” When Murphy asked an Inuit what the group would typically do with a kunlangeta, he replied, “Somebody would have pushed him off the ice when nobody else was looking.”

Thank you for that Hildegarda, I thought about posting/looking up for exactly the same article, as I read go2's post. ;)

I think it has been normal to deselect psychopaths in small tribes, because they are not productive for the community, to the contrary. More like living parasites.
As go2 wrote the anonymity is an advantage for the psychopath in the western culture and as well the lack of knowledge of others. So we have knowledge and networking again.

 

[Laura]

I don't remember where I read it, but I once came across a description of how tribal people would also leave a kid behind when they moved on who was a "threat to the tribe" because he (or she) persistently did not obey parents or elders, played dirty tricks on others, harmed animals, etc. It sounded really cruel, but when you consider what is at stake in a tribal society - the life of the tribe - maybe they weren't so cruel?

 

[Hildegarda]

I think it has been normal to deselect psychopaths in small tribes, because they are not productive for the community

I think so too. Worth noting too that such practices would be based on an individual's actual observable behavior, and not on general ideas held in regard of some groups of people (of certain gender or a cast, or of strangers in general, etc). In a small community, it is doable. In a larger group it is easier to go astray.

It sounded really cruel, but when you consider what is at stake in a tribal society - the life of the tribe - maybe they weren't so cruel?

IMO this question relates to the discussions of death penalty in modern society. Most objections are based on the fact that death sentences are socially and racially biased, often inaccurately given to innocent people or too severe for the crime, and their administration is barbaric. But if all those problems were solved beyond a shade of doubt, then it's down to whether a society should continue to support this or that person who really can't live in society without heinously harming others. And if the society has enough resources for, among other priorities, to support such people in their isolated existence with a measure of comfort and dignity, then that's great. But is a society has very limited resources, like a tribal group described above, can it really be blamed? Gotta be careful going down this road, but that's something to think about.

 

[shijing]

IMO this question relates to the discussions of death penalty in modern society. Most objections are based on the fact that death sentences are socially and racially biased, often inaccurately given to innocent people or too severe for the crime, and their administration is barbaric. But if all those problems were solved beyond a shade of doubt, then it's down to whether a society should continue to support this or that person who really can't live in society without heinously harming others. And if the society has enough resources for, among other priorities, to support such people in their isolated existence with a measure of comfort and dignity, then that's great. But is a society has very limited resources, like a tribal group described above, can it really be blamed? Gotta be careful going down this road, but that's something to think about.

This is also very reminiscent of some discussion that happened last Fall on the 'Creating a New World' thread, the most recent part of which started about here.