Session 30 January 2010
- Thread starter Laura
- Start date
WIN 52
The Living Force
I just need a bit of information here, I have read so much lately it is hardly possible to bring quotes or find references at the moment.
When the C's said 1/2 of the people on earth have no souls or are organic portals, did I read that correctly?
The problem is that 25% of country's populations, I think, are psychopaths. Does that mean 25% are OP's not demonstrating psychopathic behaviour? Or is there another 25% of earth's population, which might make up the 50%, not on the surface at this time?
Is the feeling of futility going to ever lessen? The more I read, the more I can see how deep the programming and control is. I have never felt so disgusted in my life.
When the C's said 1/2 of the people on earth have no souls or are organic portals, did I read that correctly?
The problem is that 25% of country's populations, I think, are psychopaths. Does that mean 25% are OP's not demonstrating psychopathic behaviour? Or is there another 25% of earth's population, which might make up the 50%, not on the surface at this time?
Is the feeling of futility going to ever lessen? The more I read, the more I can see how deep the programming and control is. I have never felt so disgusted in my life.
WIN52...This might help ? From session 020713.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 13, 2002
Ark, Laura, BT, VG
[Part of this session was lost to recorder malfunction and a few of the questions are reconstructed, though the actual answers from C's are verbatim from the stenographic notes.]
Q: Hello.
A: Hello.
Q: And who do we have with us this evening?
A: Giffaea.
Q: And where do you transmit through?
A: Cassiopaea.
Q: (V) What is the main difference in the transmissions since "Frank" left the group and Ark finally agreed to participate directly in the process?
A: Remember that a conduit is composed of knowledge. Now think about the difference between "Frank" and Arkady. Prepare for the greatest learning burst ever!
Q: In the last session, just at the end, we brought up the work of Boris Mouravieff. As I continue to read through this material, I can see many relationships between that work and so many of the clues and hints scattered throughout the C's transmissions. What seems to be most important is his information about the Centers - three lower and three higher that are not "seated" in the body - and the formation of the magnetic center. Then, he talks about the difference between "A" influences and "B" influences, and the necessity for assimilation of "B" influences in order to fuse the "magnetic center" which then enables the soul - or higher centers - to "seat" in the body. Based on his descriptions, it seems that this is exactly the process that you have been guiding us through, even including all of the recent experiences with Vincent Bridges and Frank and others. As you had said once previously: "From the fire comes light." And we have certainly been challenged to utilize what we are learning in dealing with all of these issues and it has had a profound effect on us mentally, physically, and most especially, psychically and spiritually. We can see that this has been a large part of the "fusing of the magnetic center," as Mouravieff has termed it. Is the information from Mouravieff about these matters fairly accurate?
A: Not just fairly. It has been preserved from the time of the "Fall."
Q: Mouravieff states clearly that this teaching is a "thin thread" of an oral tradition, and that the monks themselves - in various locations - admit that it has not only not been put into writing, but has not ever even been "gathered together" in a single place. This is, of course, problematical, but it seems that Mouravieff has made a sincere effort to present the material of the Tradition itself, even if he has spent an inordinate amount of time trying to weave through it some of the occult traditions of Europe that have been so very popular for so long, particularly the synarchic views of Guenon and so forth. In seems that, in this respect, Mouravieff has interpreted many things in an "A influence" sort of way. And then, there is Mouravieff's presentation of the "worlds." It seems to be very similar to the teaching about "densities," though without the balance of STS and STO.
A: If it is understood in the original context of hyperdimensional realities. Also, there are some distortions and gloss on the subject of the "worlds" and "notes." But even this is only minor.
Q: Mouravieff says that there are two kinds of humans - he calls the "pre-Adamic" and "Adamic," [discussed in book III]. The idea is that pre-Adamic human types basically have no "soul" nor any possibility of growing one. This is a pretty shocking idea, but there have been recent scholarly discussions of this matter based on what seems to be clinical evidence that, indeed, there are human beings who are just "mechanical" and have no "inner" or "higher self" at all. [See: "Division of Consciousness"] Gurdjieff talked about this and so did Castaneda. Are these ideas Mouravieff presents about the two basic TYPES of humans, as far as they go, accurate?
A: Indeed, though again, there is a "Biblical Gloss."
Q: Mouravieff says that the "pre-Adamic" humans do not have the higher centers, nor the possibility of developing them in this cycle - which we assume to be the Grand Cycle you have previously described, the length of which is around 300,000 years. Is this an accurate representation of "pre-Adamic" beings?
A: Yes, they are "organic" portals between levels of density.
Q: Based on what Mouravieff has said, it seems to be so that any efforts to try to raise the consciousness of such individuals is doomed to fail.
A: Pretty much. Most of them are very efficient machines. The ones that you have identified as psychopaths are "failures." The best ones cannot be discerned except by long and careful observation.
Q: (V) Have I, or anyone in this room, ever encountered any, and if so, can you give us an example for reference?
A: If you consider that the population is equally distributed, then you will understand that in an ordinary "souled" person's life, that person will encounter half as many organic portals as souled individuals. BUT, when someone is in the process of "growing" and strengthening the soul, the Control System will seek to insert even more "units" into that person's life. Now, think of all the people you have ever met and particularly those with whom you have been, or are, intimate. Which half of this number would YOU designate as being organic portals? Hard to tell, eh?
Q: (BT) Is this the original meaning of the "pollution of the bloodline" that the Bible talks about?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) This certainly gives a whole new meaning to all the experiences we have had with people like "Frank" and Vincent Bridges and Terri Burns, Olga and the rest of the gang! What this means is that the work of discerning these organic portals from souled human beings is CRUCIAL to the so-called ascension process. Without the basic understanding of transformation of, and conservation of energies, there is no possibility of fusing a magnetic center. No wonder the Bridges gang and the COINTELPRO types went bananas while I was publishing the Adventures Series! And sheesh! They will go bonkers with this organic portal stuff! (V) In thinking back over my life, it seems to me that my father is certainly one of these organic portals.
A: Now, do not start labeling without due consideration. Remember that very often the individual who displays contradictory behavior may be a souled being in struggle.
Q: (L) I would say that the chief thing they are saying is that the really good ones - you could never tell except by long observation. The one key we discovered from studying psychopaths was that their actions do not match their words. But what if that is a symptom of just being weak and having no will? (A) How can I know if I have a soul?
A: Do you ever hurt for another?
Q: (V) I think they are talking about empathy. These soulless humans simply don't care what happens to another person. If another person is in pain or misery, they don't know how to care.
A: The only pain they experience is "withdrawal" of "food" or comfort, or what they want. They are also masters of twisting perception of others so as to seem to be empathetic. But, in general, such actions are simply to retain control.
Q: (A) What does having a soul or not having a soul have to do with bloodline?
A: Genetics marry with soul if present.
Q: Do "organic portals" go to fifth density when they die?
A: Only temporarily until the "second death."
Q: (V) What is the "origin" of these organic portal human types? In the scheme of creation, where did they come from?
A: They were originally part of the bridge between 2nd density and 3rd density. Review transcripts on the subject of short wave cycles and long wave cycles.
Q: (A) Now, I was reading in the transcripts that sleep is necessary for human beings because it was a period of rest and recharging. You also said that the SOUL rests while the body is sleeping. So, the question is: what source of energy is tapped to recharge both the body and the soul?
A: The question needs to be separated. What happens to a souled individual is different from an organic portal unit.
Q: (L) I guess that means that the life force energy that is embodied in Organic Portals is something like the soul pool that is theorized to exist for flora and fauna. This would, of course, explain the striking and inexplicable similarity of psychopaths, that is so well defined that they only differ from one another in the way that different species of trees are different in the overall class of Tree-ness. So, if they don't have souls, where does the energy come from that recharges Organic Portals?
A: The pool you have described.
Q: Does the recharging of the souled being come from a similar pool, only maybe the "human" pool?
A: No - it recharges from the so-called sexual center which is a higher center of creative energy. During sleep, the emotional center, not being blocked by the lower intellectual cener and the moving center, transduces the energy from the sexual center. It is also the time during which the higher emotional and intellectual centers can rest from the "drain" of the lower centers' interaction with those pesky organic portals so much loved by the lower centers. This respite alone is sufficient to make a difference. But, more than that, the energy of the sexual center is also more available to the other higher centers.
Q: (L) Well, the next logical question was: where does the so-called "sexual center" get ITS energy?
A: The sexual center is in direct contact with 7th density in its "feminine" creative thought of "Thou, I Love." The "outbreath" of "God" in the relief of constriction. Pulsation. Unstable Gravity Waves.
Q: Do the "centers" as described by Mouravieff relate at all to the idea of "chakras?"
A: Quite closely. In an individual of the organic variety, the so-called higher chakras are "produced in effect" by stealing that energy from souled beings. This is what gives them the ability to emulate souled beings. The souled being is, in effect, perceiving a mirror of their own soul when they ascribe "soul qualities" to such beings.
Q: Is this a correspondence that starts at the basal chakra which relates to the sexual center as described by Mouravieff?
A: No. The "sexual center" corresponds to the solar plexus.
Lower moving center - basal chakra
Lower emotional - sexual chakra
Lower intellectual - throat chakra
Higher emotional - heart chakra
Higher intellectual - crown chakra
Q: (L) What about the so-called seventh, or "third eye" chakra?
A: Seer. The union of the heart and intellectual higher centers.
[Laura's note: This would "close the circuit" in the "shepherd's crook" configuration.]
Q: (V) What about the many ideas about 12 chakras, and so forth, that are currently being taught by many new age sources? [Barbara Marciniak, for one.]
A: There are no such. This is a corrupted conceptualization based on the false belief that the activation of the physical endocrine system is the same as the creation and fusion of the magnetic center. The higher centers are only "seated" by being "magnetized." And this more or less "External" condition [location of the higher centers] has been perceived by some individuals and later joined to the perceived "seating" locations, in potential. This has led to "cross conceptualization" based on assumption!
Q: Are the levels of initiation and levels of the staircase as presented by Mouravieff fairly accurate?
A: Yes, but different levels accessed in other so-called lives can relieve the intensity of some levels in "another" life.
Q: (L) So work on the self in different incarnations - assuming one is not an organic portal - can be cumulative? You can pick up where you left off if you screw up?
A: Yes. To some extent. For now, then, good night.
End of Session.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 13, 2002
Ark, Laura, BT, VG
[Part of this session was lost to recorder malfunction and a few of the questions are reconstructed, though the actual answers from C's are verbatim from the stenographic notes.]
Q: Hello.
A: Hello.
Q: And who do we have with us this evening?
A: Giffaea.
Q: And where do you transmit through?
A: Cassiopaea.
Q: (V) What is the main difference in the transmissions since "Frank" left the group and Ark finally agreed to participate directly in the process?
A: Remember that a conduit is composed of knowledge. Now think about the difference between "Frank" and Arkady. Prepare for the greatest learning burst ever!
Q: In the last session, just at the end, we brought up the work of Boris Mouravieff. As I continue to read through this material, I can see many relationships between that work and so many of the clues and hints scattered throughout the C's transmissions. What seems to be most important is his information about the Centers - three lower and three higher that are not "seated" in the body - and the formation of the magnetic center. Then, he talks about the difference between "A" influences and "B" influences, and the necessity for assimilation of "B" influences in order to fuse the "magnetic center" which then enables the soul - or higher centers - to "seat" in the body. Based on his descriptions, it seems that this is exactly the process that you have been guiding us through, even including all of the recent experiences with Vincent Bridges and Frank and others. As you had said once previously: "From the fire comes light." And we have certainly been challenged to utilize what we are learning in dealing with all of these issues and it has had a profound effect on us mentally, physically, and most especially, psychically and spiritually. We can see that this has been a large part of the "fusing of the magnetic center," as Mouravieff has termed it. Is the information from Mouravieff about these matters fairly accurate?
A: Not just fairly. It has been preserved from the time of the "Fall."
Q: Mouravieff states clearly that this teaching is a "thin thread" of an oral tradition, and that the monks themselves - in various locations - admit that it has not only not been put into writing, but has not ever even been "gathered together" in a single place. This is, of course, problematical, but it seems that Mouravieff has made a sincere effort to present the material of the Tradition itself, even if he has spent an inordinate amount of time trying to weave through it some of the occult traditions of Europe that have been so very popular for so long, particularly the synarchic views of Guenon and so forth. In seems that, in this respect, Mouravieff has interpreted many things in an "A influence" sort of way. And then, there is Mouravieff's presentation of the "worlds." It seems to be very similar to the teaching about "densities," though without the balance of STS and STO.
A: If it is understood in the original context of hyperdimensional realities. Also, there are some distortions and gloss on the subject of the "worlds" and "notes." But even this is only minor.
Q: Mouravieff says that there are two kinds of humans - he calls the "pre-Adamic" and "Adamic," [discussed in book III]. The idea is that pre-Adamic human types basically have no "soul" nor any possibility of growing one. This is a pretty shocking idea, but there have been recent scholarly discussions of this matter based on what seems to be clinical evidence that, indeed, there are human beings who are just "mechanical" and have no "inner" or "higher self" at all. [See: "Division of Consciousness"] Gurdjieff talked about this and so did Castaneda. Are these ideas Mouravieff presents about the two basic TYPES of humans, as far as they go, accurate?
A: Indeed, though again, there is a "Biblical Gloss."
Q: Mouravieff says that the "pre-Adamic" humans do not have the higher centers, nor the possibility of developing them in this cycle - which we assume to be the Grand Cycle you have previously described, the length of which is around 300,000 years. Is this an accurate representation of "pre-Adamic" beings?
A: Yes, they are "organic" portals between levels of density.
Q: Based on what Mouravieff has said, it seems to be so that any efforts to try to raise the consciousness of such individuals is doomed to fail.
A: Pretty much. Most of them are very efficient machines. The ones that you have identified as psychopaths are "failures." The best ones cannot be discerned except by long and careful observation.
Q: (V) Have I, or anyone in this room, ever encountered any, and if so, can you give us an example for reference?
A: If you consider that the population is equally distributed, then you will understand that in an ordinary "souled" person's life, that person will encounter half as many organic portals as souled individuals. BUT, when someone is in the process of "growing" and strengthening the soul, the Control System will seek to insert even more "units" into that person's life. Now, think of all the people you have ever met and particularly those with whom you have been, or are, intimate. Which half of this number would YOU designate as being organic portals? Hard to tell, eh?
Q: (BT) Is this the original meaning of the "pollution of the bloodline" that the Bible talks about?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) This certainly gives a whole new meaning to all the experiences we have had with people like "Frank" and Vincent Bridges and Terri Burns, Olga and the rest of the gang! What this means is that the work of discerning these organic portals from souled human beings is CRUCIAL to the so-called ascension process. Without the basic understanding of transformation of, and conservation of energies, there is no possibility of fusing a magnetic center. No wonder the Bridges gang and the COINTELPRO types went bananas while I was publishing the Adventures Series! And sheesh! They will go bonkers with this organic portal stuff! (V) In thinking back over my life, it seems to me that my father is certainly one of these organic portals.
A: Now, do not start labeling without due consideration. Remember that very often the individual who displays contradictory behavior may be a souled being in struggle.
Q: (L) I would say that the chief thing they are saying is that the really good ones - you could never tell except by long observation. The one key we discovered from studying psychopaths was that their actions do not match their words. But what if that is a symptom of just being weak and having no will? (A) How can I know if I have a soul?
A: Do you ever hurt for another?
Q: (V) I think they are talking about empathy. These soulless humans simply don't care what happens to another person. If another person is in pain or misery, they don't know how to care.
A: The only pain they experience is "withdrawal" of "food" or comfort, or what they want. They are also masters of twisting perception of others so as to seem to be empathetic. But, in general, such actions are simply to retain control.
Q: (A) What does having a soul or not having a soul have to do with bloodline?
A: Genetics marry with soul if present.
Q: Do "organic portals" go to fifth density when they die?
A: Only temporarily until the "second death."
Q: (V) What is the "origin" of these organic portal human types? In the scheme of creation, where did they come from?
A: They were originally part of the bridge between 2nd density and 3rd density. Review transcripts on the subject of short wave cycles and long wave cycles.
Q: (A) Now, I was reading in the transcripts that sleep is necessary for human beings because it was a period of rest and recharging. You also said that the SOUL rests while the body is sleeping. So, the question is: what source of energy is tapped to recharge both the body and the soul?
A: The question needs to be separated. What happens to a souled individual is different from an organic portal unit.
Q: (L) I guess that means that the life force energy that is embodied in Organic Portals is something like the soul pool that is theorized to exist for flora and fauna. This would, of course, explain the striking and inexplicable similarity of psychopaths, that is so well defined that they only differ from one another in the way that different species of trees are different in the overall class of Tree-ness. So, if they don't have souls, where does the energy come from that recharges Organic Portals?
A: The pool you have described.
Q: Does the recharging of the souled being come from a similar pool, only maybe the "human" pool?
A: No - it recharges from the so-called sexual center which is a higher center of creative energy. During sleep, the emotional center, not being blocked by the lower intellectual cener and the moving center, transduces the energy from the sexual center. It is also the time during which the higher emotional and intellectual centers can rest from the "drain" of the lower centers' interaction with those pesky organic portals so much loved by the lower centers. This respite alone is sufficient to make a difference. But, more than that, the energy of the sexual center is also more available to the other higher centers.
Q: (L) Well, the next logical question was: where does the so-called "sexual center" get ITS energy?
A: The sexual center is in direct contact with 7th density in its "feminine" creative thought of "Thou, I Love." The "outbreath" of "God" in the relief of constriction. Pulsation. Unstable Gravity Waves.
Q: Do the "centers" as described by Mouravieff relate at all to the idea of "chakras?"
A: Quite closely. In an individual of the organic variety, the so-called higher chakras are "produced in effect" by stealing that energy from souled beings. This is what gives them the ability to emulate souled beings. The souled being is, in effect, perceiving a mirror of their own soul when they ascribe "soul qualities" to such beings.
Q: Is this a correspondence that starts at the basal chakra which relates to the sexual center as described by Mouravieff?
A: No. The "sexual center" corresponds to the solar plexus.
Lower moving center - basal chakra
Lower emotional - sexual chakra
Lower intellectual - throat chakra
Higher emotional - heart chakra
Higher intellectual - crown chakra
Q: (L) What about the so-called seventh, or "third eye" chakra?
A: Seer. The union of the heart and intellectual higher centers.
[Laura's note: This would "close the circuit" in the "shepherd's crook" configuration.]
Q: (V) What about the many ideas about 12 chakras, and so forth, that are currently being taught by many new age sources? [Barbara Marciniak, for one.]
A: There are no such. This is a corrupted conceptualization based on the false belief that the activation of the physical endocrine system is the same as the creation and fusion of the magnetic center. The higher centers are only "seated" by being "magnetized." And this more or less "External" condition [location of the higher centers] has been perceived by some individuals and later joined to the perceived "seating" locations, in potential. This has led to "cross conceptualization" based on assumption!
Q: Are the levels of initiation and levels of the staircase as presented by Mouravieff fairly accurate?
A: Yes, but different levels accessed in other so-called lives can relieve the intensity of some levels in "another" life.
Q: (L) So work on the self in different incarnations - assuming one is not an organic portal - can be cumulative? You can pick up where you left off if you screw up?
A: Yes. To some extent. For now, then, good night.
End of Session.
Win52: It's recommended that if you have not started to read the Wave series, that this is a good first step to get an even better understanding to the relevance of the 020713 session on organic portals. As this is piece of a larger part of the whole picture. You can also recheck the newbies page for other important recommends by the moderators that give other readings to more insight!
Hi Laura. I thought that the advertisement's, the lizard at the top , the sign below of the out lines of people in the bill broad, the word bene (the influx of cocaine and meth) above the bill broad of the people , and the numbers on the street flags 6666, (consortium) just stuck me that this would be part of the population being manipulated by the 4d sts through mental or chemical means, that are starting to designate aka psychopath's and the like. Maybe I have an over active imagination, but I found that this was just there and seemed to say a lot of how the world is being torn apart by man, women, and child that are of this element?
WIN 52
The Living Force
Thanks M A O - I have read all and printed some of the on line Wave book. There is a lot of information to digest. I did not finish High School and have not read much during the past 40 years.
The other 25% are psychopathic OP's we work and socialize with daily and they are not outwardly visible psychopaths, like that Canadian Colonel who has been killing young women.(breaking news in Canada)
The other 25% are psychopathic OP's we work and socialize with daily and they are not outwardly visible psychopaths, like that Canadian Colonel who has been killing young women.(breaking news in Canada)
Shijing said:
Hi Shijing,
Sorry for late reply. Thanks for elaborate explanation, and I agree with you in most of the things, but I'm focused on work of: Derenko M, Malyarchuk B, Denisova G, Wozniak M, Grzybowski T, Dambueva I, Zakharov I. these scientists worked on "white" haplogroup N and found out following:
So, it is pretty funny to see over that 52% population (if we are counting cities, but over 74% if looking rural and tribal comunities) of northern Ethiopian genes coming from Numidic isolates from the north of Africa and according to HPT maps they are actually Finno-Ugric haplogroup who is subclade of K haplogroup together with other "white haplogroups" O, NO, P, Q, M, L, Q, R. In Finland 50% of population have variation of N gene called N3, other genes N1 and N2 are scattered all around eastern Europe together with dominant K haplogroup supclades all around Western Europe, Eastern Med and Western Asia, so in most of Ethiopia (except southern parts and bigger cities) we can found as much K haplogroup subclades as in Holland, and of course in Ethiopia we'll find the youngest subcalde called N haplogroup. This is the reason why I'm interested to know if Ethiopia have bigger number of psychopaths than the rest of the Africa, if answer is yes, this could show us that tribal strict culture did not work well against psychopaths, and as well I would like to know if density of psychopathic population in certain areas is following same density of OP population.
Edit: added quotes
Attachments
A bit late, thanks for all the effort and for all those discussions what followed.
I have to say that I am shocked that the Cassiopeans mentioned that such a weapon exists and especially that it’s being used. I mean this really does chance the playing field.
Just horrible. I guess this secret government really keeps the world hostage.
The amount of psychopaths. If that is true. What a world we live in. Just depressing.
- I may have to add something towards this, part of my observation at least.
If you focus on Wilders I wouldn’t stay with him. Don’t forget his ‘opposition.’
To introduce him, and to explain what I mean:
His talks about how he thinks it’s necessary to have a camp just like Guatanamo bay or to have soldiers patrolling the cities to control this so called out of control Muslim population. Or his latest where he made a proposal to tax Muslim women who wear headscarf’s. Or like he calls it ‘head-rags’
Yes the media is occupied in condemning him but in what kind of why? They say it’s discriminating, it’s Hate speech. And so on. If they where actually condemning him they would go far further than that. Like the obvious,
investigate his claims see if they hold any water. Expose his lies! And especially what his disturbing network connections are.
But it doesn’t really reach any further than condemning him as a racist. – And his sympathizers will respond with: The truth isn’t discrimination. And than it’s starts all over again. It’s just a circus nothing more.
This guy can be easily buried. No sweat.
But what about the other Political Parties, same attitude as the media. Most of them claim it’s a mad-man. But never really dig into his claims, investigate the man himself. They brush him away. Ignoring him.
There is no truly resistance against Wilders.
About those other political parties, did you notice how in time they expressed the same views which falls very well into how Wilders looks at certain thing.
Although not expressing themselves in it as Wilders does.
The thing is. To me Wilders is just preparing the ground. A ground he made confused, angry and hateful. - And most of the other political parties are following suit. Taking advantage of it.
Also I know that the media claims that Wilders in a virtual way has the biggest party if election occurs. I don’t think this would happen. Everything would just fall apart. Than people would see what he really is. Empty.
No he doing fine where he stand now. Like I said. Preparing the ground that is his role.
- The dynamics at how those political parties all argue is interesting.
But in the end.
Don listen towards there words. There words are a mask of there actions.
There actions say everything.
And that is where you see what is happening.
BTW he regular visits the Israeli embassy in The Hague. Has strong ties with several Zionist organizations.
And to show his true face a little more:
[quote author=Wilders]"We all carry Jerusalem in our blood, in our genes. We all live and breathe Jerusalem. We talk Jerusalem, we dream Jerusalem. Simply because, the values of ancient Israel have become the values of the West. We are all Israel, and Israel is in all of us."[/quote]
Really this is just for starters, but it may give you an impression. And no it isn’t a secret. Wilders isn’t even hiding it. Only the Media is.
I have to say that I am shocked that the Cassiopeans mentioned that such a weapon exists and especially that it’s being used. I mean this really does chance the playing field.
Just horrible. I guess this secret government really keeps the world hostage.
The amount of psychopaths. If that is true. What a world we live in. Just depressing.
[/quote]Snow said:
- I may have to add something towards this, part of my observation at least.
If you focus on Wilders I wouldn’t stay with him. Don’t forget his ‘opposition.’
To introduce him, and to explain what I mean:
His talks about how he thinks it’s necessary to have a camp just like Guatanamo bay or to have soldiers patrolling the cities to control this so called out of control Muslim population. Or his latest where he made a proposal to tax Muslim women who wear headscarf’s. Or like he calls it ‘head-rags’
Yes the media is occupied in condemning him but in what kind of why? They say it’s discriminating, it’s Hate speech. And so on. If they where actually condemning him they would go far further than that. Like the obvious,
investigate his claims see if they hold any water. Expose his lies! And especially what his disturbing network connections are.
But it doesn’t really reach any further than condemning him as a racist. – And his sympathizers will respond with: The truth isn’t discrimination. And than it’s starts all over again. It’s just a circus nothing more.
This guy can be easily buried. No sweat.
But what about the other Political Parties, same attitude as the media. Most of them claim it’s a mad-man. But never really dig into his claims, investigate the man himself. They brush him away. Ignoring him.
There is no truly resistance against Wilders.
About those other political parties, did you notice how in time they expressed the same views which falls very well into how Wilders looks at certain thing.
Although not expressing themselves in it as Wilders does.
The thing is. To me Wilders is just preparing the ground. A ground he made confused, angry and hateful. - And most of the other political parties are following suit. Taking advantage of it.
Also I know that the media claims that Wilders in a virtual way has the biggest party if election occurs. I don’t think this would happen. Everything would just fall apart. Than people would see what he really is. Empty.
No he doing fine where he stand now. Like I said. Preparing the ground that is his role.
- The dynamics at how those political parties all argue is interesting.
But in the end.
Don listen towards there words. There words are a mask of there actions.
There actions say everything.
And that is where you see what is happening.
BTW he regular visits the Israeli embassy in The Hague. Has strong ties with several Zionist organizations.
And to show his true face a little more:
[quote author=Wilders]"We all carry Jerusalem in our blood, in our genes. We all live and breathe Jerusalem. We talk Jerusalem, we dream Jerusalem. Simply because, the values of ancient Israel have become the values of the West. We are all Israel, and Israel is in all of us."[/quote]
Really this is just for starters, but it may give you an impression. And no it isn’t a secret. Wilders isn’t even hiding it. Only the Media is.
shijing
The Living Force
Hi jubazo --
Thanks for continuing this discussion, and I like the fact that you put some figures in to help illustrate what you are talking about (Eboard10 did this on another thread last week, and that was very helpful too). I put quotes around the article excerpt that you cited from above, just to make it easier to tell what you were quoting from the article and what you were saying yourself. Its a good practice to get into in the future when you quote from articles, only because it helps the reader keep things straight.
The only thing about the haplogroups you're discussing above is that, with the exception of R, there doesn't seem to be a reason to associate them with "white" populations -- they all tend to be associated with Asians, broadly speaking. Here are the more specific associations as I understand them at present:
Now it is interesting that R is part of this group -- one explanation might be that there is more ultimately "Asian" input into the patrilines of Europe than we would suspect, but this is one of the reasons I included R in the third question that I ask here.
To the best of my knowledge (I could be wrong about this, and if you find that I am just point it out), there is no N represented in Ethiopia. There may be K, but although K is an ancestor of N, it doesn't necessarily mean that N will actually show up there. The haplogroup you might actually want to be paying attention to in Ethiopia is J -- its a sister of I, which is the other haplogroup besides R strongly associated with Europe, and it is correlated with Afrasian (including Semitic) populations and found in northern Africa.
Yes, I still agree that it would be interesting to find out if there is a correlation of some sort between percentage of OPs in a population and percentage of psychopaths. I suspect that there would be some variation since psychopathy seems to be the result of originally localized mutations at different places and times, but who knows...
Thanks for continuing this discussion, and I like the fact that you put some figures in to help illustrate what you are talking about (Eboard10 did this on another thread last week, and that was very helpful too). I put quotes around the article excerpt that you cited from above, just to make it easier to tell what you were quoting from the article and what you were saying yourself. Its a good practice to get into in the future when you quote from articles, only because it helps the reader keep things straight.
jubazo said:
The only thing about the haplogroups you're discussing above is that, with the exception of R, there doesn't seem to be a reason to associate them with "white" populations -- they all tend to be associated with Asians, broadly speaking. Here are the more specific associations as I understand them at present:
Now it is interesting that R is part of this group -- one explanation might be that there is more ultimately "Asian" input into the patrilines of Europe than we would suspect, but this is one of the reasons I included R in the third question that I ask here.
jubazo said:
To the best of my knowledge (I could be wrong about this, and if you find that I am just point it out), there is no N represented in Ethiopia. There may be K, but although K is an ancestor of N, it doesn't necessarily mean that N will actually show up there. The haplogroup you might actually want to be paying attention to in Ethiopia is J -- its a sister of I, which is the other haplogroup besides R strongly associated with Europe, and it is correlated with Afrasian (including Semitic) populations and found in northern Africa.
jubazo said:
Yes, I still agree that it would be interesting to find out if there is a correlation of some sort between percentage of OPs in a population and percentage of psychopaths. I suspect that there would be some variation since psychopathy seems to be the result of originally localized mutations at different places and times, but who knows...
Shijing said:
Hello Shijing,
Thanks for such prompt reply. Related to the N haplogroup in Ethiopia, that is funny thing and kind a mysterious because: Ethiopians are also among the most genetically diverse people in the world. A 2001 study based on cluster analysis that looked at a combined sample of Amhara and Oromo found that they share 62% of their genome with Caucasians (Ashkenazi Jews, Norwegians, Fins and Armenians Variations I, T, N1, N1A, M, and derivates mostly (H, U, V, W, X, J, and K), together with other Eurasian subhaplotypes in smaller amount), 24% with other Sub-Saharan Africans (Bantus), 8% with Austro-Melanesians (Papua New Guineans), and 6% with Far East Asians (Chinese). Somalis: Another East African group with Caucasoid affinities similar to those of Ethiopians, another multiethnic group North Africans: Genetic data showing the peoples of North Africa to be predominantly Caucasoid similar to Ethiopians and Nord Somalis.
Ethiopian gene pool was estimated to be >40% of Caucasoid derivation (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994). In addition, more recent phylogenetic analysis based on classical protein polymorphism (Tartaglia et al. 1996) and Y-chromosome sequence variation (Underhill et al. 2000) showed that Ethiopians appear to be distinct from Africans and more closely associated with populations of the Mediterranean basin."
"On the basis of historical, linguistic, and genetic data, it has been suggested that the Ethiopian population has been strongly affected by Caucasoid migrations since Neolithic times. On the basis of autosomal polymorphic loci, it has been estimated that 60% of the Ethiopian gene pool has an African origin, whereas ~40% is of Caucasoid derivation.... Ethiopian sample also lacks the sY81-G allele, which was associated with 86% and 69% of Senegalese and mixed-African YAP+ chromosomes, respectively. This suggests that male-mediated gene flow from Niger-Congo speakers to the Ethiopian population was probably very limited ... Caucasoid gene flow into the Ethiopian gene pool occurred predominantly through males. Conversely, the Niger-Congo contribution to the Ethiopian population occurred mainly through females."
"Notably, 62% of the Ethiopians fall in the first cluster, which encompasses the majority of the Jews, Norwegians and Armenians, indicating that placement of these individuals in a 'Black' cluster would be an inaccurate reflection of the genetic structure. Only 24% of the Ethiopians are placed in the cluster with the Bantu and most of the Afro-Caribbeans."
Could say M and other Caucasoid haplogroups are nicely elaborated in N. Africa and E. Africa but N is very interesting because all Numidic isolates have them in good percentage and science is pretty divided with N origins and real historical background except in it's norther European variations.
The hypothesis of Asia as the place of origin of haplogroup N is supported by the following:
1. Haplogroup N is found in all parts of the world but has low frequencies in Sub-Saharan Africa via Numidic and Berberic influences even Tuareg tribes on northern part of Sahara. According to a number of studies, the presence of Haplogroup N in Africa is most likely the result of back migration from Eurasia.
2. The oldest clades of macrohaplogroup N are found in Asia and Australia.
3. It would be paradoxical that haplogroup N had traveled all the distance to Australia or New World yet failed to affect other populations within Africa besides North Africans and Horn Africans.
4. N1 is the only sub-clade of haplogroup N that has been observed in Africa. However N1a is the only one in East Africa: this haplogroup is even younger and is not restricted to Africa, N1a has also been detected in Southern Siberia and was found in a 2,500-year-old Scytho-Siberian burial in the Altai region
5.According to Toomas Kivisild "the lack of L3 lineages other than M and N in India and among non-African mitochondria in general suggests that the earliest migration(s) of modern humans already carried these two mtDNA ancestors, via a departure route over the Horn of Africa (Ethiopia-Somalia)
Other older hypotesys, stating:
There is widespread agreement in the scientific community concerning the African ancestry of haplogroup L3 (haplogroup N's parent clade).
However, whether or not the mutations which define haplogroup N itself first occurred within Asia or Africa has been a subject for ongoing discussion and study. According to a study by Gonzalez et al.
The out of Africa hypothesis has gained generalized consensus. However, many specific questions remain unsettled. To know whether the two M and N macrohaplogroups that colonized Eurasia were already present in Africa before the exit is puzzling.
Torroni et al 2006 state that Haplogroups M, N and R (mainly Western European haplot.) occurred somewhere between East Africa and the Persian Gulf.
Also related to the origins of haplogroup N is whether ancestral haplogroups M, N and R where part of the same migration out of Africa, or whether Haplogroup N left Africa via the Northern route through the Levant, and M left Africa via Horn of Africa. This theory was suggested because haplogroup N is by far the predominant haplogroup in Western Eurasia, and haplogroup M is absent in Western Eurasia, but is predominant in India and is common in regions East of India. However, the mitochondrial DNA variation in isolated "relict" populations in southeast Asia and amongst Indigenous Australians supports the view that there was only a single dispersal from Africa. Southeast Asian populations and Indigenous Australians all possess deep rooted clades of both haplogroups M and N. The distribution of the earliest branches within haplogroups M, N, and R across Eurasia and Oceania therefore supports a three-founder-mtDNA scenario and a single migration route out of Africa. These findings also highlight the importance of Indian subcontinent in the early genetic history of human settlement and expansion.
Latest version of genetic mapping, related to Numinic genetic is focused more to northern isolates (Berbers with major Twelve Y-chromosomal short tandem repeats (STRs), DYS19, DYS385, DYS389I, DYS389II, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS388, DYS426 and DYS439 were typed in Berber-speaking populus (subhaplot. N=49) in Morocco, but that is only for Morocco Berbers and ther's no scientific works done on other Berberic tribes en route to whole N. Africa, and even less for Tuareg's except genetic study by Fadhlaoui-Zid et al. 2004 argues concerning certain exclusively North African haplotypes that "expansion of this group of lineages took place around 10,500 years ago in North Africa, and spread to neighbouring population", and apparently that a specific Northwestern African haplotype, U6, probably originated in the Near East 30,000 years ago but has not been highly preserved and accounts for 6-8% in southern Moroccan Berbers, 18% in Kabyles and 28% in Mozabites. Rando et al. 1998 (as cited by [4]) "detected female-mediated gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa to NW Africa" amounting to as much as 21.5% of the mtDNA sequences in a sample of NW African populations; the amount varied from 82% (Touaregs) to 4% (Rifains). This north-south gradient in the sub-Saharan contribution to the gene pool is supported by Esteban et al. Nevertheless, individual Berber communities display a considerably high mtDNA heterogeneity among them. The Berbers of Jerba Island, located in South Eastern Tunisia, display an 87% Eurasian contribution with no U6 haplotypes, while the Kesra of Tunisia, for example, display a much higher proportion of typical sub-Saharan mtDNA haplotypes (49%, including 4.2% of M1 haplogroup) Cherni L, et al., as compared to the Zriba (8%). According to the article, "The North African patchy mtDNA landscape has no parallel in other regions of the world and increasing the number of sampled populations has not been accompanied by any substantial increase in our understanding of its phylogeography.)," so Berbers & Touaregs were my first choice related to the psychopathy question and it's percentage among isolates of African population, although both Berber and Touareg tribes are recognized as Numidic, their genetic diversities are large and could not use them in this case, of course in order to make finalized picture about Numidic genome, scientist have problem with so called "blank spot" of Africa, you might guess it's Sudan, I sincerely hope we'll be able to see finalized genetic map of the world during our lifetimes, I think genetic have much more to say about this thematic.
shijing
The Living Force
Hi jubazo -- You're doing some really good digging here, and you've come up with quite a bit of information! Its too much for me to comment on in totality, so I'm going to try to hit the main points:
So that indicates that the Ethiopians (and Somalis, whom you mention below) are rather heavily and asymmetrically mixed, with the Caucasoid component being largely male. That's interesting since the Ethiopian languages are Semitic languages, which means that the languages of the patriline won out over the original languages of the matriline.
I just noticed another point of confusion in our discussion, which I should have clarified earlier. The N haplogroup you are referencing above is mtDNA, not Y-DNA, and they are two independent things. For clarity, when I talked about haplogroup N above, I was talking only about Y-DNA, not mtDNA.
When you read things like the above, keep in mind that they are written in alignment with the mainstream "Out of Africa" model. However, the C's have suggested that this model is actually illegitimate. The reason is because according to the C's, different races were planted on Earth at different times independently (and therefore had no common geographic origin in Africa), and moreover what we think of as the large racial groups were already distributed around the world before the great cataclysm 12,000 years ago that probably left pockets of various groups distributed all over the world in various racial categories. Mainstream science struggles with how to account for some of the younger haplogroups being distributed over large parts of the world under the Out of Africa scenario, but we aren't so-constrained -- we should not take the C's word at face value any more than Laura and Ark do, but it gives us a very interesting alternative hypothesis to explore in terms of how the haplogroups ended up being distributed in their current patterns (which I think is kind of exciting).
I agree -- the Berber (Numidic) populations are really very interesting, and I get the impression that they are unique in some way, although I don't know how exactly. One interesting thing about them is that they seem to have a close connection with the Guanches of the Canary Islands, which Laura had asked about at least a couple of times several years ago. As far as your psychopathy questions go, it would be interesting to get that data for these populations -- maybe it will emerge in time.
jubazo said:
So that indicates that the Ethiopians (and Somalis, whom you mention below) are rather heavily and asymmetrically mixed, with the Caucasoid component being largely male. That's interesting since the Ethiopian languages are Semitic languages, which means that the languages of the patriline won out over the original languages of the matriline.
jubazo said:
I just noticed another point of confusion in our discussion, which I should have clarified earlier. The N haplogroup you are referencing above is mtDNA, not Y-DNA, and they are two independent things. For clarity, when I talked about haplogroup N above, I was talking only about Y-DNA, not mtDNA.
jubazo said:
When you read things like the above, keep in mind that they are written in alignment with the mainstream "Out of Africa" model. However, the C's have suggested that this model is actually illegitimate. The reason is because according to the C's, different races were planted on Earth at different times independently (and therefore had no common geographic origin in Africa), and moreover what we think of as the large racial groups were already distributed around the world before the great cataclysm 12,000 years ago that probably left pockets of various groups distributed all over the world in various racial categories. Mainstream science struggles with how to account for some of the younger haplogroups being distributed over large parts of the world under the Out of Africa scenario, but we aren't so-constrained -- we should not take the C's word at face value any more than Laura and Ark do, but it gives us a very interesting alternative hypothesis to explore in terms of how the haplogroups ended up being distributed in their current patterns (which I think is kind of exciting).
jubazo said:
I agree -- the Berber (Numidic) populations are really very interesting, and I get the impression that they are unique in some way, although I don't know how exactly. One interesting thing about them is that they seem to have a close connection with the Guanches of the Canary Islands, which Laura had asked about at least a couple of times several years ago. As far as your psychopathy questions go, it would be interesting to get that data for these populations -- maybe it will emerge in time.
Shijing said:
Hi Shijing,
You're right in many ways, first:
Linguistic evidence suggests ties between Guanche language and the Berber languages of northern Africa, particularly when comparing number systems.
and last but not the least:
Research into the genetics of the Guanche population have led to the conclusion that they share an ancestry with Berber peoples. According to Fregel et al. 2009 the presence of autochthonous North African E-M81 lineages, and also other relatively abundant markers (E-M78 and J-M267) from the same region in the indigenous Guanche population, "strongly points to that area [North Africa] as the most probable origin of the Guanche ancestors". In this study, Fregel et al. estimated that, based on Y-chromosome and mtDNA haplogroup frequencies, the relative female and male indigenous Guanche contributions to the present-day Canary Islands populations was respectively of 41.8% and 16.1%, depending island to island.
Seems to me, we have lot of diverse isolate haplot. pockets all around the world (Taino-Arawak, Ainu, Guanche, Numidians, Bask, Mandan, Ojibwa, ......) and I don't understand why scientist focused their researches mainly on haplot. mainstream, when these isolates could, possibly indirectly show some interesting data about human history.
