Session 30 January 2010

[Windmill knight]

Pardon me for dumb questions.....

If this world had remained STO as it was before the take over, it would still have roughly 50% of the population as organic portals, would it not?

Please correct if this is not the right thinking.

OP's seem to be like a blank slate waiting for programming. They seem to mirror what influences them?

But let's say that this was an STO world, and half of the population still happened to be OPs. In that situation, I believe your conclusion is correct -- there is nothing inherently bad about OPs, they are just at a different stage (and on a different track) of development than individually souled beings, and I imagine that OPs would generally follow the STO example set by those around them. It might even speed their spiritual evolution, in approximately the same way that it has been suggested that 2D animal companions may advance more quickly when living with 3D owners. That is my understanding at present.

This fragment seems relevant:

14 Sept 2002
Q: (L) ... You said before that OP's were originally intended as a bridge between second and third densities and that they were used [by 4D STS]. Is Mouravieff right about the potential for OP's to advance being dependent upon souled beings advancement to STO at the end of this cycle?

A: Not exactly. A soul imprint can grow independent of the cycle. However, it is more likely for a soul to "grow" when interacting with 4th Density STO. STS tends to drain energy for its own use.

 

[Bluestar]

At the point of the Wave crossing, this collective soul chose to use that juncture to enter physical experience, and after they did so, they existed briefly as a form of 3D STO, but were soon lured into STS by 4D STS. Does that sound accurate?

Not sure if "lured" is the correct word. My understanding of this is it was more of a proposal of an opportunity without all the details.

Q: (L) Does the interaction between the spirit/soul and the body physical produce some by-product that is desirable to other beings?
A: Well, all things have desirable consequences as well as undesirable consequences, but it must also be mentioned here that everything that exists in all realms of the universe can experience existence in one of only two ways. That would be defined as a long wave cycle and a short wave cycle. Going back to your previous question about why humans are "entrapped" in physical existence, which, of course, is voluntary and chosen, this was due to the desire to change from the long wave cycle experience of completely what you would call ethereal or spiritual existence, to the short wave cycle of what you call physical existence. The difference is that a long wave cycle involves only very gradual change in evolution in a cyclical manner. Whereas a short wave cycle involves a duality. And this is the case with souls in physical bodies as is experienced on this earth plane because the soul experiences an ethereal state for half the cycle and a physical state for the other half of the cycle. While these halves are not measured in time the way you measure time, the totality of experience is equal in each half. The necessity to form the short wave cycle was brought about through nature through the natural bounds of the universe when the group mind of souls chose to experience physicality as opposed to a completely ethereal existence.
Q: (L) Does this interaction produce a by-product?
A: It produces equal by-products of a positive and negative nature.
Q: (L) And what are these by-products?
A: Which one first?
Q: (L) Positive.
A: Positive by-product is an increase in relative energy which speeds up the learning process of the soul and all of it's one-dimensional and two-dimensional interactive partners. In other words, flora and fauna, minerals, etc. All experience growth and movement towards reunion at a faster rate on the cycle through this short wave cycle physical/ethereal transfer. Of a negative nature, it also produces many negative experiences for these very same entities which otherwise would not exist because being of a first level and second level nature, flora and fauna would ordinarily experience a long term or long wave cycle on the physical plane as opposed to a short wave cycle physical and ethereal, as they do now because of their interaction with the human species in its short wave ethereal/physical cycle.

So, my thoughts on this is that as a soul group wanting or desiring to go from a long wave cycle to a short wave cycle was basically an sts type of decision. Wanting to feel physicality as a learning experience. Without doing the research and learning all the by-products of this choice. Also I ponder this, did the flora and fauna have a choice as well to go along with this or were they subjected to the choice of this soul group?

 

[Oxajil]

At the point of the Wave crossing, this collective soul chose to use that juncture to enter physical experience, and after they did so, they existed briefly as a form of 3D STO, but were soon lured into STS by 4D STS. Does that sound accurate?

Not sure if "lured" is the correct word. My understanding of this is it was more of a proposal of an opportunity without all the details.

I agree. There is also this:

Q: (J) So we should exercise caution. (T) Okay, what was the
snake? (J) The result of giving into temptation. The snake
represents the classic... (L) So what you are saying to us is that the
story of the temptation in Eden was the story of Humankind being
led into this reality as a result of being tempted. So, the eating of the
fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was...

A: Giving into temptation.

Q: (L) And this was a trick...

A: No! Tricks don't exist!

Q: (L) There is an issue here. (T) Okay, no trick, a trap?

A: No! Traps don't exist either. Free will could not be abridged if you
had not obliged.

So, my thoughts on this is that as a soul group wanting or desiring to go from a long wave cycle to a short wave cycle was basically an sts type of decision. Wanting to feel physicality as a learning experience. Without doing the research and learning all the by-products of this choice.

Hmm, is it? According to the C's there ''were'' 3D STO beings who had ''contact'' with 4D STO beings. And 3D beings, whether STS or STO, are both experiencing a short wave cycle, because they both experience a physical state (I think).
Could be very wrong in this though.

C's also said:

A: Or perhaps a fourth level soul... remember, as we have described
to you before, levels one through four, more appropriately density
levels one through four, all involve short wave cycle recycling, or, as you refer to it,
reincarnation. Because, each and every one of these density levels
has a soul and a physical body marriage, as it were, in progressive
life experiences. Each and every one of these density levels
involves movement to the fifth level of density for contemplation
during the cycling process. It is level six, which is the first level
where short wave cycle recycling is no longer necessary because
there is no more physical
orientation. Therefore, all levels, one through four have a soul
reflection of the physical body at all times when in physical state.
And, therefore, reincarnation of
various types, is at various points on the short wave cycle always
possible, and, in fact, quite probable.

So I'm guessing that also STO beings (excluding 5th/6th/7th density) are going through a short wave cycle and so I think that the choice to go from a long wave cycle to a short wave cycle was not an STS type of decision.

Also I ponder this, did the flora and fauna have a choice as well to go along with this or were they subjected to the choice of this soul group?

I don't think anything or anyone is subjected to the choice of a soul group. But could be wrong.
(Because I think that this is a Free Will universe)

 

[Laura]

I think that there are different types of physical experience and there can be STO physicality though it would be quite different from anything we presently know.

 

[StrangeCaptain]

I think that there are different types of physical experience and there can be STO physicality though it would be quite different from anything we presently know.

Yeah... If the universe is indeed cyclical, then that implies 3D society with a STO tendency has probably occurred at some point. But a society that is as open as this current one is closed... Wow!

 

[shijing]

At the point of the Wave crossing, this collective soul chose to use that juncture to enter physical experience, and after they did so, they existed briefly as a form of 3D STO, but were soon lured into STS by 4D STS. Does that sound accurate?

Not sure if "lured" is the correct word. My understanding of this is it was more of a proposal of an opportunity without all the details.

I agree. There is also this:

Q: (J) So we should exercise caution. (T) Okay, what was the
snake? (J) The result of giving into temptation. The snake
represents the classic... (L) So what you are saying to us is that the
story of the temptation in Eden was the story of Humankind being
led into this reality as a result of being tempted. So, the eating of the
fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil was...

A: Giving into temptation.

Q: (L) And this was a trick...

A: No! Tricks don't exist!

Q: (L) There is an issue here. (T) Okay, no trick, a trap?

A: No! Traps don't exist either. Free will could not be abridged if you
had not obliged.

I think that you are both right about this -- "lure" does imply deception, whereas "tempt" does not, so that is in fact the best term to use.

Also I ponder this, did the flora and fauna have a choice as well to go along with this or were they subjected to the choice of this soul group?

I don't think anything or anyone is subjected to the choice of a soul group. But could be wrong.
(Because I think that this is a Free Will universe)

The thing I would consider here is the following from 6/30/94:

Q: (L) Is there any way we can prevent Orion abductions?
A: No.

Q: (L) Why?
A: It would interfere with universal law of free will and service to self.

Q: (L) But we don’t want to be abducted. Can’t we stop it?
A: Not likely. They have more power than you.

Q: (L) Well then, why can’t you help us?
A: Would interfere in natural progression of your race and theirs. The Jews called upon us to save them and we could not. And, natives of your land called upon us and we could not save them from your race; we could not stop that either. It is natural progression, see?

This gives the impression that one is not protected from things that one has not asked for merely because of living in a free will universe. I could be wrong, but it seems that the flora and fauna may not have been "asked", but ended up being along for the ride because of decisions made at higher levels of density. That's my current understanding, anyway.

 

[Galaxia2002]

This gives the impression that one is not protected from things that one has not asked for merely because of living in a free will universe. I could be wrong, but it seems that the flora and fauna may not have been "asked", but ended up being along for the ride because of decisions made at higher levels of density. That's my current understanding, anyway.

Yes, I agree.

We should also remember that human beings were supposedly bi-density beings and that this adds another layer of complexity to the previous analysis. This information is multi-dimensional and is therefore still difficult to understand it because we still have some lineal view.

I think it was after the fall occurred that humans were in physical contact with the OP's because at a higher level of the creation the upward flow of it seeks to provide of consciousness to the "inanimate" parts (either have or not human shape) for which it is necessary the interaction with the parts of the souled being of the descending current. There is a point where the two current converges and this was 309000 years ago. So while the interaction of OP's with souled beings accelerates the spiritual growth of the firsts, the seconds will win other lessons and this is also an opportunity to each individual or group to reach their proper natural level if they choose to continue to decline. There are many things happening at the same time at many levels ..

 

[JEEP]

it must also be mentioned here that everything that exists in all realms of the universe can experience existence in one of only two ways. That would be defined as a long wave cycle and a short wave cycle. Going back to your previous question about why humans are "entrapped" in physical existence, which, of course, is voluntary and chosen, this was due to the desire to change from the long wave cycle experience of completely what you would call ethereal or spiritual existence, to the short wave cycle of what you call physical existence. The difference is that a long wave cycle involves only very gradual change in evolution in a cyclical manner. Whereas a short wave cycle involves a duality. And this is the case with souls in physical bodies as is experienced on this earth plane because the soul experiences an ethereal state for half the cycle and a physical state for the other half of the cycle.

Of a negative nature, it also produces many negative experiences for these very same entities which otherwise would not exist because being of a first level and second level nature, flora and fauna would ordinarily experience a long term or long wave cycle on the physical plane as opposed to a short wave cycle physical and ethereal, as they do now because of their interaction with the human species in its short wave ethereal/physical cycle.

levels one through four, more appropriately density
levels one through four, all involve short wave cycle recycling, or, as you refer to it,
reincarnation. Because, each and every one of these density levels
has a soul and a physical body marriage, as it were, in progressive
life experiences. Each and every one of these density levels
involves movement to the fifth level of density for contemplation
during the cycling process. It is level six, which is the first level
where short wave cycle recycling is no longer necessary because
there is no more physical
orientation. Therefore, all levels, one through four have a soul
reflection of the physical body at all times when in physical state.
And, therefore, reincarnation of
various types, is at various points on the short wave cycle always
possible, and, in fact, quite probable.

We should also remember that human beings were supposedly bi-density beings ...

Although I think I have come to a lot of generally accurate understandings on many points about our ancient beginnings and current realities, the beginning scenario that ultimately resulted in the 'fall' is still very much a puzzlement to me. Based on the first quote, the human group soul/mind had up to that point apparently only ever existed in an ethereal state of a long wave cycle and was, consequently, STO in orientation. I have to say that I don't remember that human beings were supposedly bi-density as stated by Galaxia2002. But assuming that is correct, the group soul/mind (which was technically human because it had evolved from 1st and 2nd level and was no longer rock, flora, or fauna and had also passed through the OP bridge experience as well, all on a long wave cycle that had transitioned from the physical to the ethereal upon reaching the fully human state) could have also been bi-density - and I assume bi-density to a lower 2D level as they had not evolved beyond 3D. So, our bi-density (3D/2D) STO oriented human group soul/mind of a completely ethereal existence on a long wave cycle was discovered/sought out by 4D STS entities who were also bi-density, but 4D/3D and also ethereal/physical because of being 4D, on a short wave cycle, and having previously chosen the path of entropy. This would suggest that it is possible for entities of a short wave cycle to interact with entities on a long wave cycle. In order to live, these 4D STS entities needed a food (energy) source which they apparently were in danger of not having and they desperately needed to find and secure a new supply. They found the human group soul/mind in its 3D ethereal existence and knowing that a wave transition was to occur very shortly, seized the opportunity to convince the naive human group soul/mind that an absolutely glorious opportunity was about to present itself - the opportunity to experience physicality in all its carnal ecstasy, but more importantly, the progression to union with the one would be significantly shortened! Talk about an offer you can't refuse!!! Of course, the 4D STS conveniently omitted the part of, 'Oh, by the way, you'll also be our main food source derived from the infliction of sorrow, suffering, and excruciating pain!' Yeah, no doubt that little detail would have prevented us from entertaining any thoughts of wanting to be physical no matter how much it shortened the path to the One!

But, being innocent and highly gullible, or perhaps responding to some inner innate curiosity/desire/or character flaw, we willingly chose to go physical for the extreme pleasure element it offered (base level gratification) with a false moral justification of wanting to speed the evolution process, not only for ourselves, but also for the companion 1D and 2D elements as well (high level ideal). In other words, sure the lizzies fooled us, but we also purposely fooled ourselves! Thus, the 'fall' into 3D STS existence. The 'fall' along with the wave transitioned the earth plane into a 3D STS environment from whatever it was previously experiencing, OSIT. At this point, it would seem that physical human bodies were created in Orion labs by the 4D STS entities using some pre-human/Neanderthal genetic material harvested from the already existent 3D earth. These bodies underwent various experimentations with some models subsequently failing and other models succeeding. At some point the Nephilim also entered the picture. Since it has been noted that they ride the wave, perhaps they were there at the beginning of the genetic manipulation process. And so the earth was seeded with the various races that exist today, with other races dying out or removed from the planet either voluntarily or not. Assuming what I have surmised so far is accurate, I guess my next question is, how did the formerly ethereal human group soul/mind then get individually transitioned into their now 3D STS physical bodies - a reincarnation process or something more direct? When I think of the process that Laura has described that occurs in actual alien abduction, it would seem that process would most likely be the method used, with the passing through the 'wall of fire' into the furnished, awaiting physical bodies. And the rest is history . . . ? ? ?

Seems plausible although I may be either forgetting or not aware of significant details. :/

Oh, one more thing. Besides creating the bodies, there was also 4th density imprinting device used - a holodeck/electrostatic brain splicer job to impart the desired mental orientation? In other words, completely wipe out all previous memories including past reincarnations and lessons learned and replace with whatever the 4D STS wanted our brains to have/not have.

Edited for correction/clarification.

 

[Oxajil]

This gives the impression that one is not protected from things that one has not asked for merely because of living in a free will universe.

I agree, but that is when you define a ''free will universe'' as a universe in which you will have anything you will ask for in any density that you are in. And ''anything'' could not be possible in a Free Will universe I think.
And if viewed with the Creator's eyes everything and everyone exists because on some level at some ''time'' they chose for it. Am I wrong at this?

I could be wrong, but it seems that the flora and fauna may not have been "asked", but ended up being along for the ride because of decisions made at higher levels of density. That's my current understanding, anyway.

Terry Rodemerk wrote (from the Wave):

What we have been told on that is that this universe was created as a Free Will Universe. It was created specifically to allow all souls to do whatever they wish to do; they have complete choice about what they wish to do. The Grays, the Lizards, whoever they are who abduct and put implants in people, have the right to do that because it's their free will to come here and do that to us. And, they have the right to tell us whatever they want to tell us to rationalize their behavior. Our right is to NOT believe what abducting entities tell us. We have free will to believe or not believe them. If they tell us in one lifetime that they have the right to do this to us, and we choose to believe them then, and then, in this lifetime, they try the same tricks and we choose NOT to believe them, in each case, we are exercising our free will and so are they. This is a Free Will universe. We can change our mind. They are trying to convince us that we have no choice in that; whether we believe them or not is OUR choice.

Perhaps flora and fauna were not ''asked'', but I do think they have chosen at some level to be where they are right now.

I think there are more perspectives possible in this. Viewed from one perspective they have chosen, perhaps not as individuals, to be where they are (to learn lessons). And from another perspective you could say that the reason they are on this planet is because they ended here along for the ride (because beings from higher densities had power over them). Does this make sense?

They found the human group soul/mind in its 3D ethereal existence and knowing that a wave transition was to occur very shortly, seized the opportunity to convince the naive human group soul/mind that an absolutely glorious opportunity was about to present itself - the opportunity to experience physicality in all its carnal ecstasy, but more importantly, the progression to union with the one would be significantly shortened!

I'm not sure if the human group soul/mind were only in ethereal existence before the Fall.
3D would not have existed in the long wave cycle I think. I think they experienced both a physical and an ethereal state.

Making the choice of going from a long to a short wave cycle could've ''occurred'' ''earlier''?

Experiencing physicality in the way STS beings do is I think different than the way STO beings experience physicality. As Laura said:

I think that there are different types of physical experience and there can be STO physicality though it would be quite different from anything we presently know.

And so a goal (of the Lizzies) was probably to change the way we experience physicality (in an STO state) into a way of experiencing physicality that will entrap us and feed them at the same time; the STS state.

(this was for example done by changing our DNA, changing the brain (hemispheres) etc.. (once ''they could'')
--

I also think that (some?) 3D STO beings before the Fall also went through an ''individual soul development pattern'' (see transcript below) just as we do, but in a different way we do not understand.

A: [..] Did you not hear what was said about
obsession as opposed to knowledge? Those who are truly, within
themselves, at all points of development, trying to seek greater
knowledge, will not be blocked by any ideas relating to illegitimacy
as you refer to it. Those who are obsessed, by choice, rather than
trying to seek true knowledge, will indeed be blocked at that point. It
is all up to the choice of the individual. If you choose to develop and
gain knowledge then you are never blocked or obsessed at any
point about anything ever. However if you choose to limit your
knowledge or become obsessed then you are constantly finding
yourself blocked and this will manifest in all your life experiences.
That is part of the individual soul development pattern. It is all based
on choice. Therefore it is not possible for you to interfere with
another's choice to acquire knowledge or not and how it is or is not
done. There is no need to try to alter another's perceptions because
that would be to interfere with free will. If one chooses to be
obsessed rather than to be illumined, that is their choice!

(all bolded by me)

Sorry for using so many inverted commas (''), I like them :P

 

[JEEP]

I think it's useful to speculate to some degree and kick around different theories. But I think RA said something to the effect that 3D is not for understanding. So, really determining what happened and how may simply not be possible in our current here and now. But I still think it's productive to attempt to formulate some ideas on the subject, osit. I did forget about the burning off of the DNA - makes me want to rub the back of my neck now!

 

[Galaxia2002]

Although I think I have come to a lot of generally accurate understandings on many points about our ancient beginnings and current realities, the beginning scenario that ultimately resulted in the 'fall' is still very much a puzzlement to me. Based on the first quote, the human group soul/mind had up to that point apparently only ever existed in an ethereal state of a long wave cycle and was, consequently, STO in orientation. I have to say that I don't remember that human beings were supposedly bi-density as stated by Galaxia2002. But assuming that is correct, the group soul/mind (which was technically human because it had evolved from 1st and 2nd level and was no longer rock, flora, or fauna and had also passed through the OP bridge experience as well, all on a long wave cycle that had transitioned from the physical to the ethereal upon reaching the fully human state) could have also been bi-density - and I assume bi-density to a lower 2D level as they had not evolved beyond 3D. So, our bi-density (3D/2D) STO oriented human group soul/mind of a completely ethereal existence on a long wave cycle was discovered/sought out by 4D STS entities who were also bi-density, but 4D/3D and also ethereal/physical because of being 4D, on a short wave cycle, and having previously chosen the path of entropy. This would suggest that it is possible for entities of a short wave cycle to interact with entities on a long wave cycle. In order to live, these 4D STS entities needed a food (energy) source which they apparently were in danger of not having and they desperately needed to find and secure a new supply. They found the human group soul/mind in its 3D ethereal existence and knowing that a wave transition was to occur very shortly, seized the opportunity to convince the naive human group soul/mind that an absolutely glorious opportunity was about to present itself - the opportunity to experience physicality in all its carnal ecstasy, but more importantly, the progression to union with the one would be significantly shortened! Talk about an offer you can't refuse!!! Of course, the 4D STS conveniently omitted the part of, 'Oh, by the way, you'll also be our main food source derived from the infliction of sorrow, suffering, and excruciating pain!' Yeah, no doubt that little detail would have prevented us from entertaining any thoughts of wanting to be physical no matter how much it shortened the path to the One!

Hi Jeep here is the quote, but I was referring to bi density human being which was able to stay in 3D and 4D

sept 14 2002
[...]
Q: (J) They once said something about bi-density beings. They were like hybrids between 4th density beings and a 3rd density being. Or could such an individual be a genetically enhanced human?
A: Humans were once "bi-density." And some may be again in the natural way. Those of 4D STS "manufacture" are similar. Just think of them as a type of OP with souped up engines.[...]

It is called "the fall" because humans were in a "better" position before (from the point of view of the high densities). It seems to me that humans already knew well what a physical world was because their bi-density capabilities and they chose to increase their 3D part helped by 4d STS, of course without know the consecuenses (maybe signs of wishful thinking). They could move closer to 3D at the same way we are getting close now to STO. First the entity should start to polarize itself before do a change more substantial like a quantic jump and this should have been before "the fall".

 

[shijing]

I guess my next question is, how did the formerly ethereal human group soul/mind then get individually transitioned into their now 3D STS physical bodies - a reincarnation process or something more direct? When I think of the process that Laura has described that occurs in actual alien abduction, it would seem that process would most likely be the method used, with the passing through the 'wall of fire' into the furnished, awaiting physical bodies.

This is my current assumption, until and unless more specific information comes along to contradict it.

Oh, one more thing. Besides creating the bodies, there was also 4th density imprinting device used - a holodeck/electrostatic brain splicer job to impart the desired mental orientation? In other words, completely wipe out all previous memories including past reincarnations and lessons learned and replace with whatever the 4D STS wanted our brains to have/not have.

I think that may have been where the above-mentioned burning away of the additional DNA strands comes in -- that is my best understanding at present.

I think it's useful to speculate to some degree and kick around different theories. But I think RA said something to the effect that 3D is not for understanding. So, really determining what happened and how may simply not be possible in our current here and now. But I still think it's productive to attempt to formulate some ideas on the subject, osit.

I think that's true (and I'm not sure about the RA reference, but that could be so). It doesn't seem like all of this is outside of our grasp, although some of it may be. As long as you are making working on yourself and cleaning your machine a priority, I don't think it hurts to try to learn more about our ancient history as well (I think its a bit of a different situation than trying to understand 4D, for example, which we've been told we will understand when we get there). I've been happy to see the discussion here, actually, trying to figure this out through networking.

This gives the impression that one is not protected from things that one has not asked for merely because of living in a free will universe.

I agree, but that is when you define a ''free will universe'' as a universe in which you will have anything you will ask for in any density that you are in. And ''anything'' could not be possible in a Free Will universe I think.
And if viewed with the Creator's eyes everything and everyone exists because on some level at some ''time'' they chose for it. Am I wrong at this?

I could be wrong, but it seems that the flora and fauna may not have been "asked", but ended up being along for the ride because of decisions made at higher levels of density. That's my current understanding, anyway.

Terry Rodemerk wrote (from the Wave):

What we have been told on that is that this universe was created as a Free Will Universe. It was created specifically to allow all souls to do whatever they wish to do; they have complete choice about what they wish to do. The Grays, the Lizards, whoever they are who abduct and put implants in people, have the right to do that because it's their free will to come here and do that to us. And, they have the right to tell us whatever they want to tell us to rationalize their behavior. Our right is to NOT believe what abducting entities tell us. We have free will to believe or not believe them. If they tell us in one lifetime that they have the right to do this to us, and we choose to believe them then, and then, in this lifetime, they try the same tricks and we choose NOT to believe them, in each case, we are exercising our free will and so are they. This is a Free Will universe. We can change our mind. They are trying to convince us that we have no choice in that; whether we believe them or not is OUR choice.

Perhaps flora and fauna were not ''asked'', but I do think they have chosen at some level to be where they are right now.

I think there are more perspectives possible in this. Viewed from one perspective they have chosen, perhaps not as individuals, to be where they are (to learn lessons). And from another perspective you could say that the reason they are on this planet is because they ended here along for the ride (because beings from higher densities had power over them). Does this make sense?

Yes, I think that makes sense, and I am in agreement with you -- from our perspective, we would make a distinction between what we choose in 3D and what we choose in 5D, for example. A choice made in 5D will likely not be recognized from the perspective of 3D because of the "veil", and will therefore appear as lack of choice due to inability to control circumstances in 3D.

As far as 1D and 2D go, I think this is probably true as well, but I am a lot fuzzier about how things work in the lower densities. I know that 2D species are unified by a soul pool, so it seems that if there was a choice to be made, it would be made by that collective soul if such a thing is possible -- it probably is at some level. Regarding 1D, I haven't the foggiest clue about how consciousness is organized -- perhaps there is a kind of rudimentary soul pool active at that level as well (for example, for each element or something like that). I know that matter is sleeping consciousness, which implies the possibility of decision-making, even if in the most rudimentary way. So I guess you could create the hypothesis that 1D and 2D are making active decisions in 5D, although they may lack awareness of these decisions when they are actively incarnated in 1D and 2D.

 

[Azur]

-- from our perspective, we would make a distinction between what we choose in 3D and what we choose in 5D, for example. A choice made in 5D will likely not be recognized from the perspective of 3D because of the "veil", and will therefore appear as lack of choice due to inability to control circumstances in 3D.

;D

 

[Bluestar]

-- from our perspective, we would make a distinction between what we choose in 3D and what we choose in 5D, for example. A choice made in 5D will likely not be recognized from the perspective of 3D because of the "veil", and will therefore appear as lack of choice due to inability to control circumstances in 3D.

Yes and a maybe. In 5D I believe we come up with basic lessons to be learned. More like a concept (maybe). Example may be, abandonment issues. Once down here in 3D we have a basic path that we follow to learn those lessons, albeit we are not fully conscious of what that really is. Then during our lives we are constantly making new choices. It is a pivot point that then creates situations to learn those lessons. A constant change (good oxymoron huh?). Due to the individual choices we make, we either learn the hard way or not. Most of the time it is a loop type of thing. At times we think we got it but it comes round the corner disguised as something else. New lesson, experience, but I think it is just the same thing. So in actuality, we are consistently making choice based on our previous experiences. Though at times it feels like we have no "real" choice because the choice is an either/or and we usually at this point pick the lesser of the two evils. But it is really a choice. osit.


For me I am not so comfortable with this idea of it's ok for 4Dsts to mess with us because it's a free will universe. Isn't then my choice, now, not to be messed with?

 

[Mountain Crown]

[quote author=Bluestar]For me I am not so comfortable with this idea of it's ok for 4Dsts to mess with us because it's a free will universe. Isn't then my choice, now, not to be messed with[/quote]

The reality of free will is best understood as whether one can or cannot, rather than whether one should or should not.

So even though it’s not okay for me to be messed with, if they can, they will.