Session 4 April 2015

[Mr. Premise]

No, it is different. If an STO being gains, in a different place another STO being loses. That is the balance.

I do not understand why someone has created Universe that way that even advanced 4D beings, have to feed off suffering of other beings. And no one can change this for such a long time.

Mariusz, you seem really invested in a very dark view of the universe. You may want to consider that the conclusions you have come to are based only on this particular neighborhood in the universe.

 

[MariuszJ]

My conclusions are not based on this particular neighborhood. If I lived in STO there still would be 50% STS in the Universe.

 

[Mr. Premise]

My conclusions are not based on this particular neighborhood. If I lived in STO there still would be 50% STS in the Universe.

Then what you wrote above makes no sense at all. If there is an STO network, if one STO entity gains, that doesn't mean that another must lose, even if 50% of the souls are STS.

It seems to me that a universe with 100% STO would be kind of ridiculous, unbalanced, and would offer few opportunities for learning.

Maybe you just want to have it easy.

 

[Kisito]

I think that the percentage issue discussed in the Ra material is explicable when you realize that STO is a networked potential while STS is isolationist and contractile. That is, in a network, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts: what is gained by one, because of sharing, is gained by all. But in the contractile STS position, as long as there is some STO, it deducts the STS potential pretty much proportionately. Thus, more STS weight has to be acquired to cancel that out.

Or so it seems to me.

It makes sense. I have some additional thoughts, though, based on related things that Ra said.

According to Ra, most people are somewhere right in-between 50% STS and 95% STS. They fit into a range of perhaps 70-75% STS or something similar (no idea exactly how big that range is). This range was called by Ra "the sinkhole of indifference". That name makes a lot of sense in terms of what we've learned in recent years, and how most people may be unable to deal with what's now unfolding in the world, ending up unable to "surf" the Wave and instead being "dragged under".

"Indifference" basically means, or so I think, just "going with the flow". Following instincts and socialization, and not crystallizing something. In other words, I think the typical instinctive nature - combined with the influence of the typical society - is in the ballpark of ~72.5% STS. Anyway, the way out of the "sinkhole of indifference" ends up equally long for the STO and STS paths, in terms of percentages.

However, polarizing seems to have a different character for the two paths. Those who go with STS strengthen the nature which was already strongest in them. Those who go with STO have to follow and strenghten something in themselves which starts out much weaker, and networking seems crucial in even making this possible, at least generally.

The power of networking seems to explain how a group of people who are polarized to just over 50% can match the strength of a "group" who are polarized to just over 95%.

This is perhaps one of the reasons that make me think that the STO path is longer to acquire. I think the STS must go their way after being 100% STS. But I think that being 100% STS, it is not possible to return to 6D. Also I think the 4D for STS should be in two parts, ie when they become 100% STS, they must begin a primer or a return path STO .. If this scenario is possible, then it must that it is the percentage return to 6D? Equilibrium density STS / STO

 

[JeanneT]

No, it is different. If an STO being gains, in a different place another STO being loses. That is the balance.

I do not understand why someone has created Universe that way that even advanced 4D beings, have to feed off suffering of other beings. And no one can change this for such a long time.

I wonder if it is really possible to fully grasp on this level of learning the UNITY that is the Infinite Creator. As I understand it, the polarity that we play with is chosen by us to completely understand all the facets of the One which also within ourselves. This would include separation, for there would not be a balanced whole if it were not present. At 6D it is present for reflection and I imagine that in 7D or Unity, this dilemma is resolved. In Unity there is absolutely no difference (right of free will) between one arriving through STS or STO, as they are dual and valid methods of expression.
It is tough here because it seems one has to jump up to a higher or eagle eye view to even slightly understand...while still witnessing incredible suffering and unfairness on this plane. It also seems as there has been an influx of especially sinister characters of late who cleverly orchestrate the most foul deeds while we sleep or feel helpless.
I agree with what others have said...the power of the group has an energetic cohesiveness to go beyond the "sinkhole of indifference"

 

[MariuszJ]

As for 4D STS I have a feeling they do not go to 6 D. They have to change to STO to go to 6 D.

 

[Miss.K]

As for 4D STS I have a feeling they do not go to 6 D. They have to change to STO to go to 6 D.

See this post earlier in this thread:

My understanding from the above Cs remarks is that "Duality" only exists in densities 1-4. In the higher densities 5-7 (or at least in 6th), the negative is there only for reflection and does not exist in the usual meaning of "exists". I may be wrong of course.

That's the way I understand it, also. The reflection of STS is there for balance. Here's what the Cs have said:

Q: (L) Is it not also beneficial to understand
the 1st and 2nd density levels as well, just
simply for the exercise in understanding that
which is below us?
A: Strive always to rise.
Q: (V) Haven't we already done our 1st and
2nd level work as evolving souls?
A: Yes.
Q: (V) So there is no reason to step back. (T)
Who eats the Lizzies on the 4th level?
A: No one. 4th is the last density for full
manifestation of STS.
Q: (T) So, beings on the 5th and 6th level
exist in pure energy?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) The 4th level is the last for full STS.
Does that mean that the 5th level, which you
have described as the "contemplative"
level... what is the state of existence of a STS
being on the 5th level?
A: Souls of 1,2,3, and 4 go to 5th.
Q: (T) So 5th level is where they go to while
waiting to go back to one of the 4 for their
next incarnation?
A: Exactly.
Q: (T) That is why it's called the
contemplation level. You go and think about
what you have done. (T) What about souls on
6th density? (L) Are there 6th density STS
beings?
A: No, when you get to 6th you no longer
need to recycle.
Q: (L) But still, is there an STS experience at
6th density, like the 6th density Orions?
A: These are only reflections of individuals,
not unified entities. These reflections exist
for balance. They are not whole entities, just
thought forms.
Q: (L) Are these 6th density beings what the
Bible describes as a "gathering" of angels as
in the story of Job where "Lucifer" came in
before the Lord...
A: Yes.
Q: (L) So, there are STS and STO at 6th
density which balance? And they are just
there, they exist?
A: Reflection for balance.

 

[electrosonic]

As for 4D STS I have a feeling they do not go to 6 D. They have to change to STO to go to 6 D.

See this post earlier in this thread:

My understanding from the above Cs remarks is that "Duality" only exists in densities 1-4. In the higher densities 5-7 (or at least in 6th), the negative is there only for reflection and does not exist in the usual meaning of "exists". I may be wrong of course.

That's the way I understand it, also. The reflection of STS is there for balance. Here's what the Cs have said:

Q: (L) Is it not also beneficial to understand
the 1st and 2nd density levels as well, just
simply for the exercise in understanding that
which is below us?
A: Strive always to rise.
Q: (V) Haven't we already done our 1st and
2nd level work as evolving souls?
A: Yes.
Q: (V) So there is no reason to step back. (T)
Who eats the Lizzies on the 4th level?
A: No one. 4th is the last density for full
manifestation of STS.
Q: (T) So, beings on the 5th and 6th level
exist in pure energy?
A: Yes.
Q: (T) The 4th level is the last for full STS.
Does that mean that the 5th level, which you
have described as the "contemplative"
level... what is the state of existence of a STS
being on the 5th level?
A: Souls of 1,2,3, and 4 go to 5th.
Q: (T) So 5th level is where they go to while
waiting to go back to one of the 4 for their
next incarnation?
A: Exactly.
Q: (T) That is why it's called the
contemplation level. You go and think about
what you have done. (T) What about souls on
6th density? (L) Are there 6th density STS
beings?
A: No, when you get to 6th you no longer
need to recycle.
Q: (L) But still, is there an STS experience at
6th density, like the 6th density Orions?
A: These are only reflections of individuals,
not unified entities. These reflections exist
for balance. They are not whole entities, just
thought forms.
Q: (L) Are these 6th density beings what the
Bible describes as a "gathering" of angels as
in the story of Job where "Lucifer" came in
before the Lord...
A: Yes.
Q: (L) So, there are STS and STO at 6th
density which balance? And they are just
there, they exist?
A: Reflection for balance.

The problem is that we don't properly understand yet what is meant by '6D STS reflections' , so from a certain point of view MariuszJ may be right.

 

[sitting]

I think that the percentage issue discussed in the Ra material is explicable when you realize that STO is a networked potential while STS is isolationist and contractile. That is, in a network, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts: what is gained by one, because of sharing, is gained by all. But in the contractile STS position, as long as there is some STO, it deducts the STS potential pretty much proportionately. Thus, more STS weight has to be acquired to cancel that out.

Hi Laura,

I agree wholeheartedly.

It is asymmetrical warfare. Almost designed that way to guarantee an orderly & viable process of value fulfillment.

My difficulty sometimes comes with those infinite permutations. Which by definition, means a set of outcomes that are not so logical nor favorable. And I wonder what the Divine Mind does with those. Recycling perhaps.

Or maybe information NOT arranged by truths are simply denied consciousness. That may work.

 

[Divide by Zero]

My conclusions are not based on this particular neighborhood. If I lived in STO there still would be 50% STS in the Universe.

It may be so, but that is the balance. As Laura wrote in the wave, there is "To Be" and "Not to Be". For something to exist out of nothing, there has to be an equal and opposite reflection. It can be explained in math. Start with 0. If there is a 1, you need to have -1 also both of which add up to 0. (1 -1 = 0)

Also, as STS beings, we have a severely limited perspective to what being STO in an STO world would be like. Many times the C's have told Laura that they couldn't explain it in our terms. It's like trying to run a computer program in another computer that doesn't process things the same way.

 

[Miss.K]

The problem is that we don't properly understand yet what is meant by '6D STS reflections' , so from a certain point of view MariuszJ may be right.

Ok I might be totally off, but the way I understand what is meant by '6D STS reflections' is I imagine that if I live in a world with no one being STS and no evil happens, then sometimes I would have a thought of some terrible evil, like looking at (or remembering) 2D 3D 4D and seeing suffering. Or while contemplating if it is a good idea to give Lizzies what they ask for I would for a moment vision how that would be for the universe.
And I imagine that though the C's are also some kind of thought form, or non physical intelligence/emotion, that they can have a thought that doesn't manifest, but still exist as a thought...?

 

[MariuszJ]

My conclusions are not based on this particular neighborhood. If I lived in STO there still would be 50% STS in the Universe.

It may be so, but that is the balance. As Laura wrote in the wave, there is "To Be" and "Not to Be". For something to exist out of nothing, there has to be an equal and opposite reflection. It can be explained in math. Start with 0. If there is a 1, you need to have -1 also both of which add up to 0. (1 -1 = 0)

Also, as STS beings, we have a severely limited perspective to what being STO in an STO world would be like. Many times the C's have told Laura that they couldn't explain it in our terms. It's like trying to run a computer program in another computer that doesn't process things the same way.

Math is irrelevant. You do not see the point nor the implications.

 

[sitting]

The problem is that we don't properly understand yet what is meant by '6D STS reflections' ,

There may be clues within the Long cycle versus Short cycle thingy.

And my guess is it's got to do with the intensity of differentiation, and the urgency of it's resolution (via conflict)--back towards the undifferentiated. Back towards the Union with the One.

As you move closer back to the source (in 6th), that intensity gets less and less (hence a mere reflection)--which then vanishes when unity is achieved. But this is only a guess. FWIW.

PS
I tend to think that the intensity is greatest at the mid-point, at 4th D.

 

[SeekinTruth]

The "reflections" of STS in 6th Density are not unified entities, as the C's said. And they've also said that 4D is the last as STS entities. Those 4D STS that don't switch to STO at some point can't advance to higher densities and will "disintegrate"/implode back down to primordial matter at 1st density, as the C's have explained.

@Psalehesost, that was a very helpful elaboration. Helps to deepen pondering. Thanks.

My conclusions are not based on this particular neighborhood. If I lived in STO there still would be 50% STS in the Universe.

It may be so, but that is the balance. As Laura wrote in the wave, there is "To Be" and "Not to Be". For something to exist out of nothing, there has to be an equal and opposite reflection. It can be explained in math. Start with 0. If there is a 1, you need to have -1 also both of which add up to 0. (1 -1 = 0)

Also, as STS beings, we have a severely limited perspective to what being STO in an STO world would be like. Many times the C's have told Laura that they couldn't explain it in our terms. It's like trying to run a computer program in another computer that doesn't process things the same way.

Math is irrelevant. You do not see the point nor the implications.

It's MUCH more likely that you don't see the point, nor the implications (of what you think the Universe should be like). At this point, it's getting quite silly that you think you aught to know better how the Universe should work, better than the Universe itself. You really should read Gurdjieff's teachings - but you must be able to apply it all to yourself mercilessly for it to have any value - and pay particular attention to the Laws of World Creation and Maintenance too. Otherwise you'll continue to dwell in your self-pity and wiseacre that you know how things should be, instead of maturing to the point of accepting how things are, so you may take the first concrete step in growth and development. You also should read the Wave and other material with more context for the C's sessions, as has been suggested before. It's your choice, of course.

We're here to learn on this forum. If you don't want to learn, what exactly is your reason for being here?

 

[SeekinTruth]

The problem is that we don't properly understand yet what is meant by '6D STS reflections' , so from a certain point of view MariuszJ may be right.

There may be clues within the Long cycle versus Short cycle thingy.

And my guess is it's got to do with the intensity of differentiation, and the urgency of it's resolution (via conflict)--back towards the undifferentiated. Back towards the Union with the One.

As you move closer to the source (in 6th), that intensity gets less and less (hence a mere reflection)--which then vanishes when unity is achieved. But this is only a guess. FWIW.

Additionally, it could be that the thought forms in 6D are necessary for anything to manifest below in lower, physical densities. Also, there may be a kind of identification / fascination of the thoughts created that manifest below in lower densities for some "soul units", so to speak, and then they want to experience such IN the physical, and thus "fall" to do so. The C's have alluded to this, and Laura's written about it here and there.