Session 4 April 2015

[SeekinTruth]

Yeah, good points, electrosonic. The question then is, do you want to learn. That seems to be the first step, something making you want to learn. Then the way to progress can open through the learning to grow and develop.

 

[Kisito]

Also, what I have also understood is that learning does not mean doing good to move from STS to STO. Learning is doing as many different things as possible. So as we are living in STS environment, we are supposed to harm other people in hundreds of different ways through centuries and that way one is moving towards completing the lesson to be moved to 4D.

MariuszJ, Thinking more about your comment:

Firstly: Learning is NOT about doing as many different things as possible - Learning & Experiencing are two different things. You can experience many things without learning the lesson.

Secondly: You do not have to experience absolutely everything in order to learn the lesson. For instance; in order to learn that a boiling kettle is hot does not require you to boil every kettle in the country & touch them all - just once should be sufficient to learn the lesson.

Thirdly: The lessons required to graduate to an STS environment will be different to the lessons required to graduate to an STO environment. You do not need to have learned both sets. An STS 4D candidate will not need to have learned about the intricacies involved with STO living in order to move on to an STS 4D environment.

On this point I agree with MariuszJ. She did not say to do the experience of all things, but "many things." So it does not say to experience with all the kettles but certain. This is a semantic misunderstanding I think. I also think she means that experiences are made through evil (STS). There's nothing shocking to me.

Also I do not think learning and life is two different things! Or can you explain your opignion?
You also say that the lessons for STS and STO paths are different, but I do not see the link with MariuszJ about and why do you think that?
Furthermore it seems that you have insuiniez that only the lessons that determine our way and not our free will!

 

[electrosonic]

Also, what I have also understood is that learning does not mean doing good to move from STS to STO. Learning is doing as many different things as possible. So as we are living in STS environment, we are supposed to harm other people in hundreds of different ways through centuries and that way one is moving towards completing the lesson to be moved to 4D.

MariuszJ, Thinking more about your comment:

Firstly: Learning is NOT about doing as many different things as possible - Learning & Experiencing are two different things. You can experience many things without learning the lesson.

Secondly: You do not have to experience absolutely everything in order to learn the lesson. For instance; in order to learn that a boiling kettle is hot does not require you to boil every kettle in the country & touch them all - just once should be sufficient to learn the lesson.

Thirdly: The lessons required to graduate to an STS environment will be different to the lessons required to graduate to an STO environment. You do not need to have learned both sets. An STS 4D candidate will not need to have learned about the intricacies involved with STO living in order to move on to an STS 4D environment.

On this point I agree with MariuszJ. She did not say to do the experience of all things, but "many things." So it does not say to experience with all the kettles but certain. This is a semantic misunderstanding I think. I also think she means that experiences are made through evil (STS). There's nothing shocking to me.

Also I do not think learning and life is two different things! Or can you explain your opignion?
You also say that the lessons for STS and STO paths are different, but I do not see the link with MariuszJ about and why do you think that?
Furthermore it seems that you have insuiniez that only the lessons that determine our way and not our free will!

So you think that merely experiencing something is the same as actually absorbing the lesson and turning it into knowledge which adds to your whole being?

I think there are billions of souls around that are continuously experiencing intense learning experiences over and over and over again and still don't learn the lesson.

You seem to be implying that all you need to do to progress on the path, is to go around experiencing lots of things?

I suggest you try some of the new age guru's out there - they'd be glad to have you.

 

[Kisito]

Also, what I have also understood is that learning does not mean doing good to move from STS to STO. Learning is doing as many different things as possible. So as we are living in STS environment, we are supposed to harm other people in hundreds of different ways through centuries and that way one is moving towards completing the lesson to be moved to 4D.

MariuszJ, Thinking more about your comment:

Firstly: Learning is NOT about doing as many different things as possible - Learning & Experiencing are two different things. You can experience many things without learning the lesson.

Secondly: You do not have to experience absolutely everything in order to learn the lesson. For instance; in order to learn that a boiling kettle is hot does not require you to boil every kettle in the country & touch them all - just once should be sufficient to learn the lesson.

Thirdly: The lessons required to graduate to an STS environment will be different to the lessons required to graduate to an STO environment. You do not need to have learned both sets. An STS 4D candidate will not need to have learned about the intricacies involved with STO living in order to move on to an STS 4D environment.

On this point I agree with MariuszJ. She did not say to do the experience of all things, but "many things." So it does not say to experience with all the kettles but certain. This is a semantic misunderstanding I think. I also think she means that experiences are made through evil (STS). There's nothing shocking to me.

Also I do not think learning and life is two different things! Or can you explain your opignion?
You also say that the lessons for STS and STO paths are different, but I do not see the link with MariuszJ about and why do you think that?
Furthermore it seems that you have insuiniez that only the lessons that determine our way and not our free will!

So you think that merely experiencing something is the same as actually absorbing the lesson and turning it into knowledge which adds to your whole being?

I think there are billions of souls around that are continuously experiencing intense learning experiences over and over and over again and still don't learn the lesson.

You seem to be implying that all you need to do to progress on the path, is to go around experiencing lots of things?

I suggest you try some of the new age guru's out there - they'd be glad to have you.

Guru What do you mean? I have no mâitre, but examples like Laura G ... or I try to listen to everyone and understand! My free will is to try to get me out of all faiths and for now having no judgment, so I can have no Guru. Your words are amazing! You seem to blame me for not knowing anything that involves the STO path. I would say that you are right, but at least I am aware of that. And I do not think that you know also, otherwise you would be STO! I think the way it is experience and the attempt, once you know the way it is canceled. Neo asks if he can avoid the bullets when he has more "experience" Morpheus tells him he will not need to avoid them. Perhaps you rush into your analysis on the concept of "living and learning". If I say it's the same thing, in the sense that one minute and one hour (59 minutes difference) belongs to time. I never said it was the same ... but absortion learning the nuances of the same thing if you prefer. :)

 

[electrosonic]

Also, what I have also understood is that learning does not mean doing good to move from STS to STO. Learning is doing as many different things as possible. So as we are living in STS environment, we are supposed to harm other people in hundreds of different ways through centuries and that way one is moving towards completing the lesson to be moved to 4D.

MariuszJ, Thinking more about your comment:

Firstly: Learning is NOT about doing as many different things as possible - Learning & Experiencing are two different things. You can experience many things without learning the lesson.

Secondly: You do not have to experience absolutely everything in order to learn the lesson. For instance; in order to learn that a boiling kettle is hot does not require you to boil every kettle in the country & touch them all - just once should be sufficient to learn the lesson.

Thirdly: The lessons required to graduate to an STS environment will be different to the lessons required to graduate to an STO environment. You do not need to have learned both sets. An STS 4D candidate will not need to have learned about the intricacies involved with STO living in order to move on to an STS 4D environment.

On this point I agree with MariuszJ. She did not say to do the experience of all things, but "many things." So it does not say to experience with all the kettles but certain. This is a semantic misunderstanding I think. I also think she means that experiences are made through evil (STS). There's nothing shocking to me.

Also I do not think learning and life is two different things! Or can you explain your opignion?
You also say that the lessons for STS and STO paths are different, but I do not see the link with MariuszJ about and why do you think that?
Furthermore it seems that you have insuiniez that only the lessons that determine our way and not our free will!

So you think that merely experiencing something is the same as actually absorbing the lesson and turning it into knowledge which adds to your whole being?

I think there are billions of souls around that are continuously experiencing intense learning experiences over and over and over again and still don't learn the lesson.

You seem to be implying that all you need to do to progress on the path, is to go around experiencing lots of things?

I suggest you try some of the new age guru's out there - they'd be glad to have you.

Guru What do you mean? I have no mâitre, but examples like Laura G ... or I try to listen to everyone and understand! My free will is to try to get me out of all faiths and for now having no judgment, so I can have no Guru. Your words are amazing! You seem to blame me for not knowing anything that involves the STO path. I would say that you are right, but at least I am aware of that. And I do not think that you know also, otherwise you would be STO! I think the way it is experience and the attempt, once you know the way it is canceled. Neo asks if he can avoid the bullets when he has more "experience" Morpheus tells him he will not need to avoid them. Perhaps you rush into your analysis on the concept of "living and learning". If I say it's the same thing, in the sense that one minute and one hour (59 minutes difference) belongs to time. I never said it was the same ... but absortion learning the nuances of the same thing if you prefer. :)

Sorry Kisito, I don't understand how anything you're saying relates to anything I've said at all.

 

[goyacobol]

Also, what I have also understood is that learning does not mean doing good to move from STS to STO. Learning is doing as many different things as possible. So as we are living in STS environment, we are supposed to harm other people in hundreds of different ways through centuries and that way one is moving towards completing the lesson to be moved to 4D.

MariuszJ, Thinking more about your comment:

Firstly: Learning is NOT about doing as many different things as possible - Learning & Experiencing are two different things. You can experience many things without learning the lesson.

Secondly: You do not have to experience absolutely everything in order to learn the lesson. For instance; in order to learn that a boiling kettle is hot does not require you to boil every kettle in the country & touch them all - just once should be sufficient to learn the lesson.

Thirdly: The lessons required to graduate to an STS environment will be different to the lessons required to graduate to an STO environment. You do not need to have learned both sets. An STS 4D candidate will not need to have learned about the intricacies involved with STO living in order to move on to an STS 4D environment.

On this point I agree with MariuszJ. She did not say to do the experience of all things, but "many things." So it does not say to experience with all the kettles but certain. This is a semantic misunderstanding I think. I also think she means that experiences are made through evil (STS). There's nothing shocking to me.

Also I do not think learning and life is two different things! Or can you explain your opignion?
You also say that the lessons for STS and STO paths are different, but I do not see the link with MariuszJ about and why do you think that?
Furthermore it seems that you have insuiniez that only the lessons that determine our way and not our free will!

So you think that merely experiencing something is the same as actually absorbing the lesson and turning it into knowledge which adds to your whole being?

I think there are billions of souls around that are continuously experiencing intense learning experiences over and over and over again and still don't learn the lesson.

You seem to be implying that all you need to do to progress on the path, is to go around experiencing lots of things?

I suggest you try some of the new age guru's out there - they'd be glad to have you.

Guru What do you mean? I have no mâitre, but examples like Laura G ... or I try to listen to everyone and understand! My free will is to try to get me out of all faiths and for now having no judgment, so I can have no Guru. Your words are amazing! You seem to blame me for not knowing anything that involves the STO path. I would say that you are right, but at least I am aware of that. And I do not think that you know also, otherwise you would be STO! I think the way it is experience and the attempt, once you know the way it is canceled. Neo asks if he can avoid the bullets when he has more "experience" Morpheus tells him he will not need to avoid them. Perhaps you rush into your analysis on the concept of "living and learning". If I say it's the same thing, in the sense that one minute and one hour (59 minutes difference) belongs to time. I never said it was the same ... but absortion learning the nuances of the same thing if you prefer. :)

Sorry Kisito, I don't understand how anything you're saying relates to anything I've said at all.

Kisito and Electrosonic,

I think you are just misunderstanding each other. I don't think Kistio's idea is much different from yours electrosonic. He is pointing out that it is not the quantity of experiences but the quality, which is also what I think you are saying. Also Kistio's idea that "learning is life" is very similar to what the Cs say when they say "life is religion". If life/learning is religion then you don't need a guru. You are your own guru. The sad part it that MariusJ's statement made it sound like everyone should:

So as we are living in STS environment, we are supposed to harm other people in hundreds of different ways through centuries and that way one is moving towards completing the lesson to be moved to 4D.

If you are really learning I don't think you are "supposed to harm other people". But is you want to be really good at STS then I guess the more people you harm the better go get to 4D STS.

Hopefully MarisuJ doesn't really believe this scenario. Once you have learned you have learned and can move on.

Maybe I am "misunderstanding" what was intended but that how it looks to me.

 

[Miss.K]

Maybe I am "misunderstanding" what was intended but that how it looks to me.

me too

 

[cubbex]

I doubt marius will move into a 4d with that simplistic thinking unless the wave pushes him over or something. I think STS 4d is ala illuminati or those sects. People being very smart, learning strict reallity but willingly choosing to do evil. A psychopath may go to 4d but it appears this is because, as the cs said once about OPs, that those OPs who interact with 4D may get enough energy to move to a higher density. So it may be that only the psychopaths at the highest echelon of power might do it, they are useful pets.

Marius indeed read the wave, even if you have read parts before, trust the process and go through it. One of the most important concepts is not only "learning", but to learn what is and how to apply "free will"; because as it is seen in history of mankind and any group, there is not a rule that tells you/us that you "should or shouldn´t" do something, it is all up to you, but again, the consequences are also up to you.

If you think we should harm people you are only following the program, you work as you and most humans are programmed to do so. To self destruct and harm others. Think of this as an strategy, yes we are STS, but the strategy from our point of view is to stop feeding the system, becoming STO is the best way to achieve this.

 

[MariuszJ]

I wonder if what we have been doing in our history is the right path to graduate to 4D. In the Middle Ages we used to physically harm others. Now we harm them in a different way, mainly by charging people for services a couple of times more than they are worth. In result many people can not afford even food, also in USA. Suppressed technologies and unemployment are a part of the whole picture. Currency is probably very rarely used in Universe.

By the way, it has never been exactly stated by Cs what should be done to go to 4D. This is why many people are not interested in reading channelings.

 

[Psalehesost]

By the way, it has never been exactly stated by Cs what should be done to go to 4D. This is why many people are not interested in reading channelings.

People cannot learn by following any simplistic doctrine, and the C's therefore refuse to provide any. If such rules or instructions were provided, with the promise of being "saved" or "graduating" if the steps were followed, it would be no different from any religion or new age "teaching" that offers to "save" people.

However, many people simply want to be told what to do. All those people will have to look elsewhere to get their "fix" - to find some bogus authority which promises everything if obeyed. "Fortunately" for such people, there are many, many "masters" to choose among.

 

[SeekinTruth]

The C's have been pretty clear that in order to move to 4th density, we will have to learn all the lessons of 3rd density, and fit 4th density. If we don't fit, we'll stay in third density until we've grown in knowledge and being, opening our awareness to the illusions 3D. Then we'll be ready to move to where we fit. They've said this in many different ways in many different sessions. It also follows closely 4th Way teachings from other sources.

 

[electrosonic]

I wonder if what we have been doing in our history is the right path to graduate to 4D. In the Middle Ages we used to physically harm others. Now we harm them in a different way, mainly by charging people for services a couple of times more than they are worth. In result many people can not afford even food, also in USA. Suppressed technologies and unemployment are a part of the whole picture. Currency is probably very rarely used in Universe.

By the way, it has never been exactly stated by Cs what should be done to go to 4D. This is why many people are not interested in reading channelings.

MariuszJ, you seem to be obsessed with the idea that hurting others physically, is one of the requirements to graduate to 4D STO.

I think this says more about where you currently are on your path, than anything else.

 

[Nienna]

Kisito and Electrosonic,

I think you are just misunderstanding each other. I don't think Kistio's idea is much different from yours electrosonic. He is pointing out that it is not the quantity of experiences but the quality, which is also what I think you are saying. Also Kistio's idea that "learning is life" is very similar to what the Cs say when they say "life is religion". If life/learning is religion then you don't need a guru. You are your own guru. The sad part it that MariusJ's statement made it sound like everyone should:

Just having experiences does not mean that you are learning lessons. It's very easy to have experiences mechanically. In fact, by doing this, you tend to have many experiences that have the same theme, but may look different. As long as you are doing things mechanically, you will never learn the lesson.

It's only by experiencing something and, then, seeing the lesson in the experience and learning from it that you will stop those sets of experiences from happening again because you have seen what is going on and when confronted with the same set of circumstance you will not continue on with the experience, or will keep from having the same set of circumstances happening again.

Thinking that just having experiences is the lesson is not correct, or so I think.

 

[Divide by Zero]

I wonder if what we have been doing in our history is the right path to graduate to 4D. In the Middle Ages we used to physically harm others. Now we harm them in a different way, mainly by charging people for services a couple of times more than they are worth. In result many people can not afford even food, also in USA. Suppressed technologies and unemployment are a part of the whole picture. Currency is probably very rarely used in Universe.

By the way, it has never been exactly stated by Cs what should be done to go to 4D. This is why many people are not interested in reading channelings.

There is no exact formula. If there were, then it would be easy to follow for anyone. It's the FRV (explained in the Wave) that determines this. 51% or more STO, 95% or more STS (IIRC).

In my understanding, FRV is determined by our state, our reactions to what is. To be appalled at the state of the world is in a way, refusing to validate the bad things that run this world, much like you mention about harming others.

I've always felt that we're on this karmic wheel of reincarnation, every new lifetime, thinking we can fix things or do "better". The book 30 Years Among the Dead shows how dead people still have attachments to what they wanted to complete here. Perhaps knowledge is what allows us to step off this karmic wheel "ride". If everything were great on 3d, would we feel a need to become 4d and escape these restrictive limits of 3d?

 

[Laura]

By the way, it has never been exactly stated by Cs what should be done to go to 4D. This is why many people are not interested in reading channelings.

Actually, they did say: learning the lessons of 3D. And that's what we are working on here.