Show #24: Who was Jesus?

angelburst29

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Excellent Show but then again, each one has been profound and produced "a truth" of it's own but this Show is more in line with Independence Day!

Through out the broadcast, I kept wondering, "Does this "Truth" disseminated into the ether's of the World Wide Web, change Gaia's frequency into a more harmonic equilibrium for our Species survival?

Is this truth, in the form of the true Julius Caesar, the Holy Grail that has been sought after?

I guess, ALL roads do lead to Rome!
 

mkrnhr

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Still having a little mental confusion regarding the appearance of the same names of places both in Ionia and Judea, especially: Gaul <-> Galilee, and Corfinium <-> Caphernaum. One plausible possibility IMHO is that those places, Galilee and Caphernaum, were named after the myth of Jesus was beginning to form, i.e. after a destruction of a former geographically known Judaea in the first centuries A. D.

Looking forward for the next shows :)
 

Lisa Guliani

The Living Force
Wow, such a fascinating topic!! You all did a phenomenal job of packing so much information into one program.
Laura, you were amazing. The passion for this subject could be heard in your voice....:-)
It would be excellent if you could do a Part 2 at some point.

These shows make my whole Sunday come alive....:-)
 

Piscarian

The Force is Strong With This One
The material presented in the latest radio show, "Who was Jesus?" is something I find very interesting. Based on my experience and observation of the never ending, limitless deception of this world, the assertions made on the true identity of Jesus (Julius) are entirely conceivable to me. It's definitely a topic worth looking into. Thanks for sharing this information with us. Thumbs up.
 

loreta

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
So intense and interesting talk. I have to listen it again. And I wanted to read. Maybe Laura can wrote a sort of article on Sott with the basic information? And with a list of books? Some moments, listening about Jules Cesar I remember Chavez, who also was a good good guy with his people.

Thank you very much!
 

foofighter

Jedi Council Member
That. Was. Awesome! Thanks a lot for all the podcast and the research that led to it. I feel all giggly and bubbly just thinking about it. :shock:
 

Laura

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Mac said:
Great show! An intriguing idea for sure. I'll be doing some study on Julius Caesar. It may be awhile before I can agree that he is the greatest man in history, but I think it's time to remove the feeding tubes from Jesus.
For me he's been on life support for sometime. Looks like he is not going to recover. :deadhorse:

Mac
Read the following books:

Escape From Evil by Ernest Becker
The Ancient City by Fustel de Coulange
Caesar: Politician and Statesman by Mattias Gelzer
Divus Julius by Weinstock
Julius Caesar by Philip Freeman
Et tu Judas! Then Fall Jesus by Gary Courtney
and of course, Carotta's work.

And keep in mind that the extant contemporary histories from which the data is drawn were hostile, the friendly histories were "lost" quite conveniently. So if you read with Ponerology in mind, everything begins to fall into place.
 

Olesya

Jedi Master
Very good show. Thank you all! :) The only thing that was a little bit distracting for me (as I don't know much about the events of that historical period and the ones preceding it :-[), was the interruptions from the members of the panel, when Laura was talking about all the threads that led her to the idea that Julius Caesar was probably a man, who's life and death was used to invent the Jesus story. It's surely understandable as all of you participated in the research, and really wanted to share the information, but for me it was somewhat difficult to follow what Laura was saying at times. However, later in the show all the information you brought up about the Julius Caesar as a man of great talents, accomplishments and his real love and care for people was great!


Laura said:
I guess we are going to have to devote an entire show to Julius Caesar. Then another to how the gospels are about Julius Caesar. Another about the Mythraic Mysteries and how they, too contributed to the mix. And one about the Jewish Rebellion and how it was probably thanks to the close relationship between Julius Caesar and the Jews. Lots of material to cover and it will take several shows to do it justice.
That's a great idea! Thank you all, once again :thup:
 

Laura

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Did anybody really catch the significance of the prestidigitation of the data from the ancient historians in respect of environmental bits? It's like the smoking gun that history was deliberately re-written, particularly the history of the fall of the empire in the 6th century. There can be no other explanation for the gap of that kind of information that is EXACTLY filled by the history of Gregory of Tours in the West. Someone deliberately moved that specific kind of information from other histories and placed it in a Western context to make it seem authentic, wrote a history around it (mostly political and ecclesiastical) and then hunted down and destroyed the "endings" of every copy of the original histories in existence. There IS a record of a pope sending out emissaries to search for documents and buying them all up. Earlier popes could have done it and left no record. And then, they were busy re-copying/editing and suddenly "discovering" all kinds of things that produced the history they wanted for their political agenda.

I would say that some of the same stuff happened with the history of Caesar and many other histories that were "too hot" to be allowed to survive.
 

HowToBe

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
It's amazing because history is such a large part of our worldview. It seems like falsifying history is as fundamental a problem as falsifying laws of physics or something - how can we behave intelligently when our worldview is based on a chopped-up mess?

The thing that's boggling to me is: How much of our history has been completely lost? If we could magically reassemble all remaining recorded truth concerning humanity's past, how big would the black spaces be, for which the data has been completely lost or destroyed?
 

Windmill knight

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Fascinating information from the podcast, thank you! I particularly liked the argument towards the end of how the Romans would have rewritten the JC cult and story into the gospels to pacify the Jews. That makes sense and it's not too far from what the Cs said about the gospels having been written by 'Greek enforcers', FBI type of people (and if you read the gospels some fragments are way too generous towards the Greeks, so...).

What I would like to know now is how do we fit into this perspective other things we knew about the origins of Christianity. For example the Book of Q.

It has also been said that the story of Jesus was largely taken from other myths, like Osiris and others. So who came first and how, JC, Osiris, etc?

Also, I'm counting the Cs as a source. Some f their remarks can match Julius Caesar, for example being married to 3 Roman women. However, others seem to point out to a different character - one much less involved in politics and much more in spiritual teachings. Or so it seems to me.

Any ideas?
 

Gawan

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Laura said:
Did anybody really catch the significance of the prestidigitation of the data from the ancient historians in respect of environmental bits? It's like the smoking gun that history was deliberately re-written, particularly the history of the fall of the empire in the 6th century. There can be no other explanation for the gap of that kind of information that is EXACTLY filled by the history of Gregory of Tours in the West. Someone deliberately moved that specific kind of information from other histories and placed it in a Western context to make it seem authentic, wrote a history around it (mostly political and ecclesiastical) and then hunted down and destroyed the "endings" of every copy of the original histories in existence. There IS a record of a pope sending out emissaries to search for documents and buying them all up. Earlier popes could have done it and left no record. And then, they were busy re-copying/editing and suddenly "discovering" all kinds of things that produced the history they wanted for their political agenda.

I would say that some of the same stuff happened with the history of Caesar and many other histories that were "too hot" to be allowed to survive.
I only have questions: This suggests that it also was a conscious act to do it that way, or that these people had more knowledge? Or is there possibly a 4d-sts influence involved? At least this must have been an agenda imo.
 

aragorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Laura said:
Did anybody really catch the significance of the prestidigitation of the data from the ancient historians in respect of environmental bits? It's like the smoking gun that history was deliberately re-written, particularly the history of the fall of the empire in the 6th century. There can be no other explanation for the gap of that kind of information that is EXACTLY filled by the history of Gregory of Tours in the West. Someone deliberately moved that specific kind of information from other histories and placed it in a Western context to make it seem authentic, wrote a history around it (mostly political and ecclesiastical) and then hunted down and destroyed the "endings" of every copy of the original histories in existence. There IS a record of a pope sending out emissaries to search for documents and buying them all up. Earlier popes could have done it and left no record. And then, they were busy re-copying/editing and suddenly "discovering" all kinds of things that produced the history they wanted for their political agenda.

I would say that some of the same stuff happened with the history of Caesar and many other histories that were "too hot" to be allowed to survive.
Yes, that was very interesting! I could have got it wrong, but I was left wondering about a few things regarding the gap:

- Why did the falsifies need specifically the environmental/celestial data during this gap to add credibility? Couldn't they have used some other events during that time to "tie it in" chronologically? I mean, if the celestial events were from the east, and they were transferred to as happening in the west, couldn't they be easily disproved? Then again, if there is no other sources from that time, there's nothing to compare the information with.

- What did the falsifies gain by removing the celestial data from the east during this gap? I mean - and I could have it wrong - if the reports from the east appeared again after the gap, then the evidence for cometary activity would still be there for the afterworld to read. Was there something else and special going during this period of the gap, say political, that the celestial events in the east had to be erased?

Btw, the magnificent book by Courtney can also be found as a kindle version, and its pretty cheap, too:

Link: http://amzn.com/B006R3CPG6

Reading is a continuous "slap to the forehead" experience. Why haven't I previously noticed these glaring and blatant discrepancies in the gospels? Brilliant book!
 

Laura

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Windmill knight said:
What I would like to know now is how do we fit into this perspective other things we knew about the origins of Christianity. For example the Book of Q.
If you understand that the book of Q was, as Mack has pointed out, just general sayings of Cynics which were related to Stoics, and if you were reading HoM carefully, you would have picked up the clues that it was the Stoic philosophy that was utilized by early Christian fathers to create their Christology, then you would realize the connection.

Additionally, if I am correct that the Mithraic Mysteries were sort of the layman's version of Stoicism, created by that great Stoic, Posidonius, then obviously, sayings and other things would have been incorporated. Also, the main ritual of the MM was the communal meal in imitation of the "meal of the god". Plus, Mithras was "born from a stone/rock" (comet) and Simon of the Judaic rebels, was renamed "Peter" or stone, in the gospels.

Windmill knight said:
It has also been said that the story of Jesus was largely taken from other myths, like Osiris and others. So who came first and how, JC, Osiris, etc?
It's important to NOT get distracted by all the other theories that have been propagated for centuries in an effort to explain away Christianity. Indeed, there were many dying and resurrecting myths all over the world, related mainly to comets that go below the horizon and are reborn later. The events that surrounded the HISTORICAL Caesar, in a sense, imitated those mythic archetypes and probably infused new life into them at that time. To some extent, the facts about Caesar and the myths intertwined.

Windmill knight said:
Also, I'm counting the Cs as a source. Some f their remarks can match Julius Caesar, for example being married to 3 Roman women. However, others seem to point out to a different character - one much less involved in politics and much more in spiritual teachings. Or so it seems to me.

Any ideas?
Keep in mind that the Cs sessions about Jesus were highly charged. I expect the Cs did the best they could under the circumstance.

Note our discussion toward the end of the possible/probable utilization of an annual honoring of Caesar by Jews being the impetus behind their rebellion. It would be only rational for the emperors to want to change the direction.

My guess is that, when Jerusalem was destroyed at the time of the rebellion, Titus et all got their hands on scrolls that outlined the "passion of Caesar" and together with Josephus, created the "new story" along with the modifications that serviced their agenda.

This happened in parallel with the orthographic changes detailed by Carotta.

This is where Atwill's book is useful. If he realized the true source of the Jesus story that was PRIOR to the Flavian emperors and was the inspiration for the Judaic rebellion, he would have seen that the Flavians only worked with the materials to hand. They didn't just "create" it by fiat. There WAS something there that was powerfully inspiring and produced the kinds of spirits that the Jewish rebels exhibited as described by Josephus.

There were, of course, more edits and changes along the way.
 

Laura

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Gawan said:
I only have questions: This suggests that it also was a conscious act to do it that way, or that these people had more knowledge? Or is there possibly a 4d-sts influence involved? At least this must have been an agenda imo.
Read the response to WK above. One doesn't have to bring in any 4D STS explanations for what happens naturally in an STS world.
 
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