Slavs and Serbs(South Slavs)

Re: Slavs and Serbs(Sauth Slavs)

EVERYBODY, read this book: Cataclysm by Allan and Delair before we continue this discussion! Also, read "The Diluvian Impact" by Heinrich P Koch AND "Man and Impact in the Americas" by Grondin. Then Firestone, West and Warwick-Smith's "The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophe". Round off with Fomenko's "History: Science or Fiction".

Then, and only then, can we have a really reasonable discussion about these problems.
 
Re: Slavs and Serbs(Sauth Slavs)

Arbitrium Liberum said:
Being a Serbian myself . . . . is this face looks like Siberian tribes or more like Croats, so called "Bosnians", Slovenian? Or maybe Georgian, Swede or american indian?

I d say that is definitely Georgian face :P

Arbitrum I think you are missing the point and possibly mixing lemons and oranges.
The way I understand this haplotypes are just indication of influences through the past. Given the extent of mixing throughout the history apart from general characteristics regarding height, body stature and skin tone there could hardly be any other general characteristics pertaining to nations these day, especially when it comes to physionomy.

edit - just saw Laura's post. Totally agree - there are too many unknowns in the whole issue. Thanks for the reading suggestions Laura.
 
Re: Slavs and Serbs(Sauth Slavs)

My childish and romantic self would prefer something more like American Indian subset . . . :D

Just wanted to say that while I believe that genetic factor can have some impact on personal level, it is in the same time totally irrelevant at macro level like the whole "nation" (in case than any "nation" in the sense of nationality, ever existed). Especially in the region such as Balkan peninsula where mixing of the tribes was probably very great.

For me it is more interesting mentality (or programs, to be more precise) that we share.
 
Re: Slavs and Serbs(Sauth Slavs)

I am not familiar who did the later study which included Serbs. Maybe danny banany has more info on this.

I don't know of studies about Serbs but here is what is said on Wikipedia:

The Serbs are part of the autochthonous Dinaric-North Mediterranean anthropological groups.

The genetics of Serbs are similar to the neighbouring peoples of the Balkan peninsula because of common origin in several Paleo-Balkan tribes previously (now extinct) inhabiting the Balkans, such as Thracians, Illyrians, Dacians, etc.[35]

Haplogroup E-V13 (E-M78 lineage) has an overall distribution of 19.6% in the Balkan peoples and is estimated to be 4.1-4.7 ky BP old originating in the Balkans.[36]

In a report on "Frequencies of mtDNA Haplogroups in Southeastern Europe" which had samples of Macedonians, Macedonian Romani, Serbians, Croatians from mainland and coast, Herzegovinians, Bosnians, Slovenians, Poles and Russians. The analysis on Serbians showed Haplogroup H: 41%, Haplogroup U5: 9.4%, Haplogroups J and U4: 6.8%, most similar to the frequencies in ethnic Macedonians.[37]

The subclade E1b1b1a2-V13 is present at higher frequencies among the Albanians, Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians and Macedonians and lower numbers in southern Italians (up to 20-45%). Subclade J2f1 is at 12.5% in Serbs and Slavic Macedonians. I2a2-M423 is at 29-32% in Serbs and Macedonians and 42% in Croats, as low as 3% in Macedonian Roma, as high as 63% in Herzegovinians. The R1a (common in Slavic groups) is the same in Macedonians and Serbs at 15% and close to Bulgarians at 14%, Greeks and Herzegovinians at 12%, notable gap between the Albanians (7%) and Croats (25%), non-Balkan populations of Cypriots at 6% and Ukrainians at 45%. The most common western European haplogroup R1b values in Serbs are 10.6%, in Cypriots 9% being the lowest in Europe, the highest values being Basques 92% and 89% in Welsh, medium values 56% in French.

The R-U106 (and R-U198 sublineage), a major Germanic lineage is at 0.6% in Balkan Slavs and 0.5% in Greeks with the highest frequencies in Netherlands at 36.8% and Austria-Germany at 20.9%. The R-M269(xL23)is most frequent in the Balkans, existent in all Balkan peoples except mainland Croats.[38]

Bosnian Serbs are closer to Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims) than to Bosnian Croats, the J haplogroup is 15.3% in Serbs and 12% in Bosniaks and almost non-existent among Croats. I-P37 is higher in Croats (71%) than in Serbs (31%) and Bosniaks (44%). Hg E, almost exclusively represented by its subclade E-M78, is more common in the Serbs (~20%) than in Bosniaks (~13%) and Croats (~9%), and Hg J, observed in only one Croat, encompasses ~9% of the Serbs and ~12% of the Bosniaks, where it shows its highest diversification. By contrast, Hg R-M17 displays similar frequencies in all three groups. On the whole, the three main groups of Bosnia and Herzegovina, in spite of some quantitative differences, share a large fraction of the same ancient gene pool distinctive for the Balkan area.[39][40]

Genetic studies conclude that Serbs are of predominantly Balkan genetics (indigenous to the region[41][42]) and have very small amount of generally considered "Slavic" (Predominant in West Slavic nations; R-M458, ranging from 0-12% in the Serbs, Albanians, Macedonians, Greeks and Bulgarians[43]) genes showing that Slavs (White Serbs according to national myth/historical sources[33]) mixed with the Romanized Paleo-Balkan peoples of the conquered region (Serbian lands) and made the Slavic culture and language dominant in the ethnogenesis of the people. Thus, Serbs are mainly descendants of Paleo-Balkan peoples previously known as Dacians, Illyrians and Thracians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbs#Genetics

This last one is probably truth, it confirms that Serbs are not Slavs but is contradict with claim that their main marker represents Siberian group, but either way they are not Slavs. Serbs basically claim also they are Slavs and that they have some Sarmatians and Scythian elements

Y chromosome variation in 457 Croatian samples was studied using 16 SNPs/indel and eight STR loci. High frequency of haplogroup I in Croatian populations and the phylogeographic pattern in its background STR diversity over Europe make Adriatic coast one likely source of the recolonization of Europe following the Last Glacial Maximum. The higher frequency of I in the southern island populations is contrasted with higher frequency of group R1a chromosomes in the northern island of Krk and in the mainland. R1a frequency, while low in Greeks and Albanians, is highest in Polish, Ukrainian and Russian populations and could be a sign of the Slavic impact in the Balkan region. Haplogroups J, G and E that can be related to the spread of farming characterize the minor part (12.5%) of the Croatian paternal lineages. In one of the southern island (Hvar) populations, we found a relatively high frequency (14%) of lineages belonging to P*(xM173) cluster, which is unusual for European populations. Interestingly, the same population also harbored mitochondrial haplogroup F that is virtually absent in European populations – indicating a connection with Central Asian populations, possibly the Avars.

http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v11/n7/full/5200992a.html

This is in line with claim that northern people in Croatia has different marker from other and that they could be called Slavs in full sense of that words.

Does anyone know if the actual paper of genetic research of haplotypes in Croats and Bosnians ( happened sometimes in 1990' and Serbia didn't participate due to embargo) or of any more recent similar type research is available on the net and where?

I found some links here:

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/22/10/1964.full?sid=304e7b40-1545-4996-833e-bf6ab3751ee2

http://evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Rootsi2004.pdf

From first link:

In Table 1, the frequencies of the nine different haplogroups defined in 457 Croatian males divided into five subpopulations are compared. Haplogroup I, defined by M170, is the prevailing Y chromosome group through Croatian mainland and islands with the highest frequency (49% on average) reported in Europe so far. This haplogroup is spread in all European populations with variable frequencies, occuring at >40% in Saami, and at <10% in south (Greeks, Italians) and at approx20% in west Europe (Dutch, French).33,41 Haplogroup I occurs significantly more frequently in three southern islands – Brac , Hvar and Korcula than in the mainland and Krk in the north (chi2=25.62, 1 d.f., P=0.000). When mainland sample is subdivided by geographic areas higher frequency of I is observed in eastern and southern parts of Croatia while being also the most frequent haplogroup in Central/Western Balkan (Bosnia and Herzegovina – our unpublished data). Although the samples from Yugoslavia were not typed for M170, Semino et al.41 data indicate that most if not all of the unclassified derivates of M89 mutation in Europe are expected to have either M170 or M201 mutation. STR analyses of Croatian haplogroup I-M170 lineages defined 110 haplotypes, 32 of which occurred more than once. The most frequent haplotype, typed by eight STR loci, is 16–13–10–28–24–11–11–13 observed in 31 individuals. A phylogenetic reconstruction of haplogroup I haplotypes occurring three or more times is shown in Figure 2. Many of them are shared between populations because of either parallel mutation and deep time depth or a common origin from a relatively large number of founder haplotypes. Most Croatian haplogroup I chromosomes (126/221) share a similar STR haplotype from here on called the Dinaric Modal Haplotype (DMH: 16–24–11–11–13, defined by DYS19–390–391–392–393, respectively) or its one-step derivatives. Interestingly, DMH was not present among 102 Nordic Jobling's haplogroup 2 chromosomes (corresponds to haplogroup I42) reported by Helgason et al.43 Instead, the North Europeans share another modal haplotype 14–23–10–11–13 which is three steps away from the DMH and together with its one step derivatives covers again more than half of haplogroup 2 chromosomes (54/102) in the region of its spread.

Haplogroups R1a and R1b showed the opposite frequency distribution to I-M170 and were more common in the northwest among the mainland population and in the northern island Krk. The frequency of R1b in Croatian sample (7.9%) is comparable to some other Balkan populations, for example, Macedonian (10%),41 Greek (11%) and Yugoslavian (11%),33 but it is considerably lower than in western European populations where its frequency ranges between 40% in Germans and 81% in Irish.33 Unusual for European populations,41,44 14% of Y chromosomes from Hvar carried haplogroup P* without M173 mutation associated with a relatively high number of repeats (n=15) in the DYS392 locus. A detailed description of the occurrence of this haplogroup will be reported elsewhere.

In contrast to R1b, its sister clade R1a shows eastern distribution in Europe being as low as 10–12% in neighboring Balkan populations, Greeks and Albanians, lower in Western Europe, in Italians, Germans and the Dutch (4–6%), but as high as 50–60% in eastern and northern Europe, for example, Hungarians, Ukrainians and Poles.41 The average frequency of R1a in Croatian mainland population (34%) is similar to the value of other Slavs, for example, Macedonians (35%), Czechs and Slovaks (27%).41 Figure 2 presents a phylogenetic reconstruction of haplogroup R1a haplotypes occurring three or more times. The most frequent one (16–12–10–27–25–10–11–13) has been observed in all populations except in Hvar. Among all R1a haplotypes samples from the northern island of Krk and mainland Croatia share the highest number of haplotypes, whereas the southern island of Hvar shows the lowest number of shared haplotypes.

SNP-based branching pattern of clades I, G and unresolved derivatives of haplogroup F did not recapitulate in MJ using eight STRs (data not shown). Three haplotypes were shared between haplogroups I and G, and a number of M170 haplotypes were reconstructed as descending from M201 haplotypes, in addition, M89* haplotypes were dispersed over the network lacking apparent phylogenetic structure.

Haplogroups G, E and J have been associated with the contribution of Neolithic farmers to the European gene pool.41,45 Decreasing frequencies of haplogroup G from the Middle-East to Europe have been observed with the highest frequency noticed in Georgia. Its frequency in the investigated Croatian population is low with the exception of the most southern and the most distant investigated island Korc caronula (10%), suggesting that the Neolithic spread may have come by sea rather than by land. Haplogroup J was found at low frequencies (0–4%) over all Croatia except of Krk where 11% of the lineages had an insertion at 12f2 locus. This low frequency of J is similar to Croatian northern neighbors Slovenians,33 but it is sharply in contrast to high frequencies of the cluster, often associated with M172,45 in other Mediterranean populations where >20% frequencies are common.33,41,46 Haplogroup E was found in Croatian populations in generally low frequencies as well, ranging from 4% in the south to 7% in Krk. This frequency is even lower than reported for other south European populations (Calabrian 16.2%, Sardinian 10.4%, Greek 24%, Macedonian 15%), but comparable or even higher than its 2–9% frequency in Czechs, Hungarians, Poles, Germans, northern Italians and Ukrainians.41
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Discussion

The southern eastern Adriatic islands of Brac caron, Hvar and Korc caronula (Figure 1) had the highest frequencies reported in Europe to date (54–66%) of haplogroup I defined by M170. According to Underhill et al45 this mutation originated in Europe before the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) and might have spread together with the Gravettian culture. Although, the frequency of its ancestral F* lineages is very low in Europe,45 their traces have been found in the investigated Croatian population (1.3%). During the LGM the Balkans,47 probably along with the northern Adriatic plain then connected with the present-day islands, could have been among a few refugia of Europe (eg Franco-Cantabria and Ukraine). High frequencies of mutation M170 noticed in the Croatian population investigated in this study and Bosnian and Herzegovian population (our unpublished data) imply that the Western Balkan Peninsula could have been an LGM reservoir of M170, a starting point of an expansion that spread M170 around the neighboring populations. Postglacial re-expansion from a different refugia might explain the differences of the northern European STR founder types from those characteristic to Croats.

The second most frequent haplogroup in mainland and island populations was R1a (frequency ranging from 9 to 38%). This haplogroup is almost completely absent in western Europe but widely present in eastern Europe and central Asia.33,41,44 The same geographic pattern can be seen in Croatia. A striking north–south difference implies that at least some of the founding ancestral groups of the investigated islands are of different origin. Possibly, continental Croatia was inhabited by Indo-European speaking populations who had migrated from southern Russia 2000 BP48,49,50 and probably had carried this mutation. It is logical that Dinarides are a natural mountain barrier to migrations between the southern Croatia and north-eastern Europe and possibly explaining the lower frequency of R1a lineages in the southern Adriatic islands of Brac caron, Hvar and Korc caronula.

Haplogroups R1b and I are likely to have been present in Europe since the Palaeolithic age.41 The frequency of R1b in Europe shows a major west-to-east decline being most frequent in the Basque. The observed frequency of R1b in Croatian sample (7.4%) harmonizes with its frequency in neighboring populations, although general frequency pattern runs also through the northwest to southeast directional layout of the Croatian populations showing a marked difference between mainland and northern Adriatic island of Krk and three southern Adriatic island groups (Brac caron, Hvar and Korc caronula). This indicates that migrations carrying M173 mutation were more pronounced in the northern part of Croatia than in the southern coastal area.

Worthy of note is the finding of considerable frequency of haplogroup P* (xM173) in the population of the island of Hvar. According to Wells et al44 this lineage displays a maximum in Central Asia while being rare in Europe, Middle East and East Asia. Its presence in Hvar recapitulates our finding of mtDNA haplogroup F on the island of Hvar and in mainland Croatian population that is virtually absent in Europe but, again, common in populations from Central and Eastern Asia.51 There are several possibilities for the occurrence of the ancestral lineage of M173. One is the well-documented alliance of Avars (a Mongol people) and Slavs (Croatians) that followed Avar arrival to the eastern Adriatic in 6th century AD. The other is the expansion of the Ottoman Empire from the 16th to 18th century AD when refugees from the western Balkan frequently immigrated to the islands. Lastly, the ancient Silk Road linking China with western Asia and Europe could be a possible path of P(xM173) lineage, too. Any of these migratory patterns could have introduced this mutation to the investigated population.

The observed frequency of the haplogroups E, G and J in Croatian sample is low, suggesting a minor genetic impact from Middle East. The minor Neolithic input in Croatia from the Near East as seen in frequency distribution of Y chromosome haplogroups is in concordance with the archaeological findings in this region. Chapman and Müller52 perceive the absence of late Mesolithic Q1sites in the area of the spread of early Neolithic sites in Greece and southern Italy; however, late Mesolithic sites do occur in Eastern Adriatic coast (known as Dalmatia) and further up in north and east parts of Croatia. Also, King and Underhill53 noticed in the Croatian region absence of distribution of Neolithic figurines and painted pottery that are associated with early agriculture period. This finding could imply that in this region transition to agriculture occurs later and less because of a replacement than diffusion. Highest frequency of haplogroup G in Korc caronula could be either because of drift or reflect a different source of migration, likely over the sea. A markedly higher frequency of haplogroup J noted at the northern island Krk might be a consequence of the fact that the island was most exposed to the immigrations from the mainland. During the Ottoman invasions to the Balkans population groups from the Adriatic hinterland (Dinarides) and Western Balkan area sought refuge at the eastern Adriatic islands. These populations often referred to as 'Vlachs' or 'Morlachs' included a few families of Romanian origin (sometimes described as descendants of the Roman army veterans as well) who left numerous traces of their presence at Krk (eg Skok54).

The lack of haplogroup N and its Tat C daughter clade in Croatians suggests that proto-Slavic males probably did not carry this lineage in substantial frequency and that Russians and Poles have likely obtained it through a recent admixture with Finno-Ugric people.34,55

In conclusion, the investigated Croatian populations show the presence of Y chromosomal haplogroups specific to Western, Southern and Eastern Europe. Moreover, Croatian Y chromosomal lineages testify to different migrational movements carrying mostly Palaeolithic European ancestry, a minor Neolithic impact from the Near East, as well as a Slavic (Croatian) influence which is today clearly expressed in the Croatian language which belongs to the Southern Slav linguistic group. Haplogroup I, one of the few haplogroups of Palaeolithic European origin, present in Croatians in the highest frequency noticed in Europe so far, could potentially classify this area as a birth place of this mutation as well as a source of its post-LGM spread in Europe. Our data (12.5%) do not support the estimation of more than 82% of Neolithic contribution in Croatian population suggested by Chikhi et al.56 Chikhi et al56 assume homogeneity of Palaeolithic gene pool in Europe by taking only the Basques as representatives of Palaeolithic Europeans thus defining all other lineages by default as Neolithic. This assumption is likely not to hold, at least for haplogroup I, because it is restricted to Europe and almost absent in the Middle-East.

Having in mind a gradual geographic appearance of haplogroups R1a and R1b and domination of I in southern Adriatic islands of Brac caron, Hvar and Korc caronula one could expect that the ancestral founding groups of investigated populations could be of different origins. The genetic legacy of Adriatic islands corresponds to the proximal mainland and not to the neighboring Mediterranean populations, although the archaeological evidence suggests a different pattern. Apparently, observed genetic background of the studied southern islands area might be primarily structured by a population dispersal directed from the mainland towards the islands, whereas a cultural exchange was transferred mainly via Mediterranean maritime routes.

A general conclusion of previous anthropological studies was that the islands more distant from the coast (Hvar and Korc caronula) were the ones exhibiting higher degree of isolation, endogamy and inbreeding.13,57 This study showed that Y chromosome haplotype diversity on Korc caronula island was lower than in other islands (0.9749plusminus0.0059 in comparison with the northern island Krk 0.9882plusminus0.0047, and southern islands of Brac caron 0.9787plusminus0.0099 and Hvar 0.09839plusminus0.0049). This is consistent not only with the findings based on endogamy and inbreeding, but also with the implications of our previous mtDNA studies,16 stressing the influence of drift in small isolated Adriatic island populations.

Finally, clear and meaningful in terms of ethnogenesis pattern and gradients of Y chromosome distribution variants in Croatia, uniparentally inherited genetic loci do not only prove their usefulness in understanding demographic history of human populations, but also indicate the need for their evaluation within the context of isonymic analyses.

Which more or less sums what has been told earlier.


Seems that the Croats always had that wish to be something different than other so called "nations" that are closest to them. So close that is the very same "nation".

It isn't good to generalize because all Croats are not the same and all Serbs are not the same, people are different in each nation.
Science shows they are not Slavs and concept that all South Slavs are the "same" was starting to rise after first world war(and was created in 19 century because Croats saw it as a way to protect themselves from German influence and influence from Hungary, and as a way to gain independence through federal union with other "South Slavs", these theory was probably based on the basis of similar linguistics and culture) when the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenians was created which was 1929 under king Alexander renamed to name Kingdom of Yugoslavia which had emphasis on unity(we are all same) and that all other nations like Croats, Slovenians, Muslims , etc... are Serbs which was only propaganda so Serbian ultra-nationalist could hold their power because they had all positions of power and were supported by Britain, France, etc.. And that idea of unity was propagated by the Serbian ultra-nationalist that did crimes on other nations that had no rights in the Kingdom. In second Yugoslavia things changed and today's only nation that is being victim in Balkan big time and was in last 20 years unjustly, is Serbia with silent genocide going in the Kosovo today with ethnic cleansing of Croats, Roma, Jews and Serbs by Albanians who sell also their organs like Zionists. So it is true there is much on nationalism and lies out there on both sides today but we often forgot to be objective especially if we had some subjective experience(someone being killed in war, etc..), and I don't blame that people of that, but I try to be objective in this delicate thing. Culture and language are different from genetics like Corto said. I'am interested only in truth and there are lot of lies out there so we have to take all options in check, and I'am not saying this research wasn't done with someone's interest to claim Croatians are "special" in some way(but there could be truth in that even if there was some interest), and I agree with you that it isn't important on individual level but if it isn't important then others are going to spread lies that would become truth, like this lie that we are all South Slavs. Cheers
 
Re: Slavs and Serbs(Sauth Slavs)

So actually, Zagorci are real and only South Slavs? :)

I'm OK with being "Dacians, Illyrians and Thracians", (better than from Siberia).

It is interesting how there is much difference in small space then in the rest of the Europe (as far as I can see it) even differences between the two neighboring villages, so to speak. Its also interesting how they all have the same behavior and mentality :lol:


That all reminds me on research done in the 80's by one Yugoslav anthropologist on medieval graves and skeletons. In short, he concluded something very similar for "Yugoslav" nations (interesting, without the DNA data available today). It was printed in the old "Galaksija" magazine. I have it somewhere, and will scan it if i find it.
 
Re: Slavs and Serbs(Sauth Slavs)

Hy!

I know that every nation on Earth is genetically mixed. Every flood, strike of comet, strong earthquake, drought, war etc. hit some nation or tribe or population from whole continent, and then we had new genetic mix.

Today in Balkan region we have same nation for approximately 1500 years. Balkan region is very specific with lot similar nations (in temper) but different in religion. Who built Bosnian pyramids? ...Some very smart population who were living before South Slaves in Balkan region for sure...

I'm sure that South Slaves were neighbours somewhere in Caucasus region. Our languages are vere-very similar, out temperament is very similar, our body constitution again is very similar. We are part of some big plan, and now we have some interesting mission here in Balkan region. I hope only one thing: that we don't have crazy genetic instinct of self destruction like people at the Kantek. :scared:

Have a nice day my friends! :)

Light worker
 
Re: Slavs and Serbs(Sauth Slavs)

Arbitrium Liberum said:
...
Being a Serbian myself . . . . is this face looks like Siberian tribes or more like Croats, so called "Bosnians", Slovenian? Or maybe Georgian, Swede or american indian?

32059120597944629753100.jpg

Well... to me (as a Croat) you look like a typical Serb. ;) And saying that I don't mean anything bad.

Perhaps if I asked what are the origins of Croats as opposed to origins of Serbs we would have received more juicy reply.

Do you really want to know that? Why?

You're right.

Indeed, there are noticeable differences in the mentalities of different ethnic groups in so called Balkan region. And when I was a child it was a lot easier to me to notice these small differences (in both mentality and look). (Probably has something to do with feeling safer and protected among child own (micro)group.)

But!

I believe that this is a preprogrammed trap through which (when we fall in) our ego manifest (and also our egoism) and alienates us from our real purpose.
It is so easy to justify our behavior (and this quest for uniqueness) with many historical reasons (wounds, deprivations, and etc.), or even genetic differences between us.

Yes, one should know own roots. And Yes, we are diferent, unique and special.
But there is no diference without a reason!

I hope my "Balkanishe English" was understandable. ;)
 
Re: Slavs and Serbs(Sauth Slavs)

Hi born2bewild,

It's customary here for new members to introduce themselves in the Newbie forum. No need for personal details, just a bit about how you found us, what your interests are, etc. :)
 
Re: Slavs and Serbs(Sauth Slavs)

light worker said:
Thank you for explanation!

Now some my old puzzles connected in my head... Kantek population were transfered in this region. And from this region this population went in lot direction (removal). South Slavs came from region around "Karpat" mountains and before that our ancestors lived in Kavkaz (Caucasus area)... :wow:

There was one interesting story from one old history professor. He told that he has found identical folk costumes in Afghanistan like folk costumes are today in my country. From his claim came into existence theory of ancestors (unfortunately lot of people reject this theory). But he told us truth and nobody believed him... huh!
Kantek population was different from Earth Civilization... so South Slavs has the similar characteristic as them. I can say for my nation that we are capable to do impossible things and in same time to destroy indestructible. I was wondering why every generation had WAR in Balkan region? Every time somebody else import WAR in Balkan and crazy Balkan nations (old Kantek population) start fight... this is some rotten manipulation plan for sure :umm:
Don't forget that Bosnian pyramids are in Balkan Region... + old Kantek people .... ohohohooo - nice cake we have. :huh:

Light worker

Hy there,

We have same language my friend but as aeverybody is writing on english I will ass well.

I am like you from former yugoslavia area and I have visited Bosnia this year for 2nd time and vent to Visko where pyramids are and I will not judge as you can visit is your self but it is different in many ways. Also my friends and me had an guided tour of tunnels but as there was only 3 of us we had time and many questions where asked and my idea is that yes this are pyramids there, many tunels connectin them below and many other interesting fact there to see.

Afcourse this is not acceptable as if this would be an fact all our world hystory and all our "scientists" would be 0 and that is why you have this situation regarding pyramidys in Bosna but as we told to mr Osmanagić do not give up as people beleved that Earth is flat altought we "know" it is not, and largest shock for those people was not that Earth is an circle but that Earth is not flat!

So I think that Casio are wright when they say learing is fun as it gives you new windows to all and that knowlege has no limit!

Be good my frend (s )

Ko smo?! ;)
 
Re: Slavs and Serbs(Sauth Slavs)

1984 said:
Hi born2bewild,

It's customary here for new members to introduce themselves in the Newbie forum. No need for personal details, just a bit about how you found us, what your interests are, etc. :)

Hi Ko smo,

As said by 1984 to born2bewild, we will appreciate a little introduction in the newbie section of the forum..
 
Re: Slavs and Serbs(Sauth Slavs)

Gandalf said:
1984 said:
Hi born2bewild,

It's customary here for new members to introduce themselves in the Newbie forum. No need for personal details, just a bit about how you found us, what your interests are, etc. :)

Hi Ko smo,

As said by 1984 to born2bewild, we will appreciate a little introduction in the newbie section of the forum..

Gandalf it id done ;) hahahahah

Thank you I usualy do not use forums as they are always full of people that scream and need to be in lead and their opinion must be the only one...so I avoid them and still learning to get around on a forum!

I have posted my introduction called IT IS I ( LeClerc ) ( maby you recall it from an old english show called ALO ALO )

TX

KO SMO ?
 
Re: Slavs and Serbs(Sauth Slavs)

Arbitrium Liberum said:
That research is somehow very fishy, especially when we know in which years they were made. Seems that the Croats always had that wish to be something different than other so called "nations" that are closest to them. So close that is the very same "nation". I think that anyhow genetics is not so important here, but the mentality and "spiritual composition" of almost any "nation" on the Balkans is the one and same.

This is very intriguing:

It’s interesting that neither the Serbs are South Slavs, but they belong to Siberian group. On the other hand, Hungarians are genetically Slavs that would never be said according to their culture.

A: According to the same research it is showed that the Serbs are a nation that has 84 percent of non Slavic and 16 percent of Slavic factor. From 84 percent of non Slavic factor, their dominant factor is HG-2 with even 49 percent, which is mark for Siberian group of people. This group includes people such as Serbs, Bulgarians, Georgians, Gotlandians and Swedes, and the related subset in them includes American Indians and Turks. They are marked with genetic markers HG2, Eu-21 and Eu-22. That means that neither the Serbs should be called South Slavs.

And I get angry when read some newer days nationalistic-chauvinistic crap in the cloak of "science".

Being a Serbian myself . . . . is this face looks like Siberian tribes or more like Croats, so called "Bosnians", Slovenian? Or maybe Georgian, Swede or american indian?

32059120597944629753100.jpg




Perhaps if I asked what are the origins of Croats as opposed to origins of Serbs we would have received more juicy reply.

Do you really want to know that? Why?


Hi Arbitrium Liberum,

That research is somehow very fishy, especially when we know in which years they were made. Seems that the Croats always had that wish to be something different than other so called "nations" that are closest to them. So close that is the very same "nation". I think that anyhow genetics is not so important here, but the mentality and "spiritual composition" of almost any "nation" on the Balkans is the one and same.

Good idea , beeing Croat my self I can confirm this as this is accepted "normal" in our county as we are very proud on our history battles and other garbage written in history books ( like you know those who win make the history that is why here in Croatia we have 10 different history books in each school as teacher can choos which history he will teach ) and that is how you have our society.....

Realy it should be that this is not important as our history is mixed and combiend as it was OK for that time, so you know that serbians and croats had many same countrys in past as yugolavia was in future and then final countdown war in 1990 when neighbours killed each other in namee of god and guns and tanks where blesed by the church on TV!!!! even as this tanks will kill people just in next few days....

We here my friend are puppets by other larger counries and we have choosen ( that is magior of people of that time di it ) and now we have to live in this..... but main problem from my side now is future opinion from each side that they where wright from start and that they will never forget, so you have global marketing ( in balkan ) that leads people to hate,ware and never forgettin the past, but what people tend to forget here is that many of us are mixed with serb and croat and bosnian genes for ages and that we are still mixing today.........

That is why I think that , Light worker, should ask an deeper question, as it seem that we here on balkan have been mixed for ages, but my question is why is it so easy to manipulate with us trought faith,religion and past that we where ready to kill each other just beacuse one where serbs and one croats or muslims?????
Ask you self, that as if you look our past you will see that we have been manipulated for ages and same stupid politic wars have been held here very long and each side still belives that they are right!!!! :cry:


I am an mixed person as I have croat gens ( mixed with italian ) and seerb gens ( from my grand mothers side ) and I can inform you that I am proud to be that as I do not judge peope by that, but also I was raised by my family like that.

We should all be citizens of the world as I can inform you that all of us no- mather where we are we,or which rase we are, we sitll visit the little boys / girls room :halo: :D

KO SMO ?


Edit=Quote
 
Re: Slavs and Serbs(Sauth Slavs)

I have a friend from that region. Back in 2003 we were taking a coffee and i asked him about what the hell was going on in the balkans.
He told me that there is a disease, and that disease makes people want always more, more money, more power, and they cannot stop. And for money they will sacrifice millions of lives for their own sickness. They will use differences, religions, history, all kind of illusions to divide people...
So while history is interresting, it is more interresting to stop identifying with the past of other people lives than who we are ourselves now. I used to be like that in the past so i know what it is about, but when you are free from that you are better :)
 
Re: Slavs and Serbs(Sauth Slavs)

Hi.

In Russian the self-name of people "Slavyane" root "Slava" (Glory) is easily read.

If to consider words of Cassiopaeans that:

000408
A: Yes. Except modern type man was different then.
Q: In what ways?
A: DNA and psycho/electrical frequencies.
Q: Does this mean that their physical appearance was different from what we consider to be modern man?
A: Radiance.
Q: What do you mean "radiance?"
A: You find out!
Q: Oh, that's interesting. Well, there are legends that the Northern people had "light" in their veins. Very ancient belief. Is
this what you are referring to?
A: Maybe.
...

In English language, as I understand, the word Glory is very close connected with glow, glowing, light, etc.
This concept is similar was used in relation to the advanced people at whom it "the Light of Glory" was a physical sign earlier. I.e. the glorious person was visible to all because of "Light of glory".

Question - whether there was any communication of the self-name "Slavyane" (Slavs) and mentioned by "light of glory"?


Also look as the concept in the West has turned over.
From a word "Glory" the word "slave" has turned out.
Substitution of orienting point.
 
Re: Slavs and Serbs(Sauth Slavs)

In Russian the self-name of people "Slavyane" root "Slava" (Glory) is easily read.

I never heard that explanation, but it could be true or it could be result of someone's wishful thinking, but there's one more probable explanation that is thought:

The Slavic autonym Slověninъ is usually considered a derivation from slovo "word or speech", originally denoting "people who speak (the same language)", i.e. people who understand each other, in contrast to Slavic word denoting "foreign people" - němci, meaning "mumbling, murmuring people" (from Slavic němъ - "mumbling, mute"). The latter word may be the derivation of words to denote German/Germanic people in many later Slavic languages: e.g. Polish Niemiec, Czech Němec, Russian and Bulgarian Немец, Serbian Немац, Croatian Nijemac etc

Also look as the concept in the West has turned over.
From a word "Glory" the word "slave" has turned out.
Substitution of orienting point.

The English word Slav is derived from the Middle English word sclave, which was borrowed from Medieval Latin sclavus "slave", itself a borrowing and Byzantine Greek σκλάβος sklábos "slave", which was in turn borrowed from the Slavic autonym. The Byzantine term Sklavinoi was loaned into Arabic as Saqaliba by medieval Arab historiographers. And this name comes from Byzantines which supreme rule was accepted by many South Slavs that came on Balkans, so we are thought by mainstream history.

This concept is similar was used in relation to the advanced people at whom it "the Light of Glory" was a physical sign earlier. I.e. the glorious person was visible to all because of "Light of glory".

The question is what you define as advanced, technologically advanced or spiritually? And I think look of someone is something that is not important at all, I personally think that generalization doesn't leads anywhere like assuming that all Kantekkians were positive, i remember that C's said they were advanced then people on Earth but also said they decided to develop on their planet in high STS beings, and i think there were some groups that were positive and some more negative(have in mind what C's said about underground civilizations that are called third eye and are negative, also all of them Aryans, probably descendants from Aryan Atlanteans), and I know that C's said Celts and Germanic people were descendants of Aryan Atlanteans, and they before Romans fought each other, and German tribes weren't very peaceful either, and Celts in northern Italy led sacking campaigns against Etruria and Romans when the Rome was still in beginning of it's rise(now i take possibility that some authors lied, but knowing human psyche and time in which they lived it could be very true), then we have barbarian invasion and Viking invasion, all from the Nordic people, and they weren't Christians at that time yet but pagan, so I think seeing things one sided isn't really objective.
 

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