Smoking is... good?

[Josi]

Thank you Keyhole!!! I will order next month in Virgin vapors. I wanted organic liquids, absolutely. Even if I continue to be lost in this subject because if they lie with tobacco they also lie with e-cigarettes. That's for sure.

Thanks.

Hi Loreta,

I had ordered a lot from Virgin Vapors and really liked them. I would just say, if at any point you feel any weirdness, like front teeth feeling numb, stop vaping. Just say'n!

I have a confession to make which I have been putting off the last few weeks. Smoking the liquid e-cigarettes has actually been making my throat extremely sore, making my tongue feel numb and has caused me breathing difficulties (wheezing and coughing). I was reluctant to post this here because I think I have been in denial and try to block out whatever negative symptoms I was experiencing mainly because of how much I enjoyd the vaping.

I came across this article my Mercola a few weeks ago and thought it would be important for anyone who vapes to be aware of this :

[..]
Electronic Cigarettes Contain Toxic Metal Nanoparticles

After testing the aerosol from a leading manufacturer of electronic cigarettes, it was found to contain metals including tin, copper, nickel and silver, silicate beads and nanoparticles. In some cases, such as in the case of tin particles, the amounts were greater than you might be exposed to from smoking a conventional cigarette. The researchers concluded:3

“Cartomizer aerosol from a leading manufacturer of EC [electronic cigarette] contained metals, silicate beads, and nanoparticles. Poor solder joints appear to have contributed to the presence of tin in the aerosol. In cytotoxicity tests, cartomizer fluid containing tin particles inhibited attachment and survival of hPF [human pulmonary fibroblasts].

Other metals likely came from the wires (copper, nickel, silver) and other metal components used in the cartomizers, while silicate particles appeared to come from the fiberglass wicks.

While the outer fibers filtered out many of the tin particles, significant amounts of tin, other metals, and silicate beads escaped into the aerosol and would result in human exposure, in some cases probably greater than a conventional cigarette user would experience.” [emphasis added]

The effects of toxic metal exposures can range from subtle symptoms to serious diseases. Since metals build up in your body over time, symptoms are often attributed to other causes and people often don't realize that they have been affected by metals until it's too late. Further, once metals build up in your body they can cause irreversible damage.

Why Breathing in Metal Nanoparticles May be Dangerous

Adding to the potential risks are nanoparticles, which, due to their ultramicroscopic size, can easily enter your bloodstream, blood vessels and other body tissues, causing unknown consequences. As written by Sayer Ji, founder of GreenMedInfo.com:4

“One of the unintended, adverse consequences of nanotechnology in general is that by making a substance substantially smaller in size than would occur naturally, or though pre-nanotech production processes, the substance may exhibit significantly higher toxicity when in nanoparticle form.

Contrary to older toxicological risk models, less is more: by reducing a particle's size the technology has now made that substance capable of evading the body's natural defenses more easily, i.e. passing through pores in the skin or mucous membranes, evading immune and detoxification mechanisms that evolved millions of years before the nanotech era.

For example, when nickel particles are reduced in size to the nanometer range (one billionth of a meter wide) they may actually become more toxic to the endocrine system as now they are capable of direct molecular interaction with estrogen receptors in the body, disrupting their normal structure and function. Moreover, breathing these particles into the lungs, along with other metals, ethylene glycol and nicotine produces a chemical concoction exhibiting synergistic toxicity, i.e. the toxicity of the whole is higher than the sum of their parts.”

Article can be found here:_http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/04/10/electronic-cigarette.aspx

Hi Keyhole,

Sorry that you are having negative symptoms. Have you stopped vaping? I hope your symptoms stop when you do.

Even though I stopped vaping in Nov. 2013, I am still dealing with some off and on weirdness in my teeth (a prickly/numbness feeling), and my sinuses sometimes feel like having a slight sinus infection, but without all the mucous, and I get a headache. It isn't everyday, or all the time, and I can't figure out what causes it to flare up. I sometimes have a few days in a row that I feel great, thinking "oh, it is finally over", but then it flares up again. Right now I am on a fifth day in a row of feeling symptoms. Taking naproxin, or ibuphrofren barely helps, and I hate taking them, but sometimes I just have to. It really is draining. It all goes back to the very beginning of vaping, and I personally wish I never tried it.

Here is my original post when I began:
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,26825.msg450203.html#msg450203

I read Mercola's article before. I do wonder if the nanoparticles are in my mucous membrane. I have done a few rounds of EDTA, and I now am drinking green clay to try and pull whatever out of my system. I am hoping it is not irreversible. It sucks.

If anyone has any suggestions what else I could do, please let me know.

P.S. I have even stopped smoking tobacco for the last 2 months, because it seemed to intensify my symptoms.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Wow, that's terrible, Rhiannon. If there's nothing else involved other than nano-metals, etc. the EDTA should definitely help - so might be a good idea to continue with it. There's also DMSA for metal detox/chelation, but I've never tried it personally, and also seems to be harder to get in a lot of places. I wonder if activated charcoal could help too, but I don't know if it does anything outside the digestive tract.

 

[Josi]

Wow, that's terrible, Rhiannon. If there's nothing else involved other than nano-metals, etc. the EDTA should definitely help - so might be a good idea to continue with it. There's also DMSA for metal detox/chelation, but I've never tried it personally, and also seems to be harder to get in a lot of places. I wonder if activated charcoal could help too, but I don't know if it does anything outside the digestive tract.

Thanks, SeekinTruth!

I meant DMSA rounds, rather than EDTA. Did 2 DMSA - 3 times a day- for 3 days - with 10 days off, and all the supplements that go with it, for 6 rounds. I am thinking of doing that again, and in the meantime taking EDTA again in the mornings.

 

[Keyhole]

Hi Keyhole,

Sorry that you are having negative symptoms. Have you stopped vaping? I hope your symptoms stop when you do.

Even though I stopped vaping in Nov. 2013, I am still dealing with some off and on weirdness in my teeth (a prickly/numbness feeling), and my sinuses sometimes feel like having a slight sinus infection, but without all the mucous, and I get a headache. It isn't everyday, or all the time, and I can't figure out what causes it to flare up. I sometimes have a few days in a row that I feel great, thinking "oh, it is finally over", but then it flares up again. Right now I am on a fifth day in a row of feeling symptoms. Taking naproxin, or ibuphrofren barely helps, and I hate taking them, but sometimes I just have to. It really is draining. It all goes back to the very beginning of vaping, and I personally wish I never tried it.

Here is my original post when I began:
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,26825.msg450203.html#msg450203

I read Mercola's article before. I do wonder if the nanoparticles are in my mucous membrane. I have done a few rounds of EDTA, and I now am drinking green clay to try and pull whatever out of my system. I am hoping it is not irreversible. It sucks.


If anyone has any suggestions what else I could do, please let me know.

P.S. I have even stopped smoking tobacco for the last 2 months, because it seemed to intensify my symptoms.

Wow I'm sorry to hear about this Rhiannon. It sounds like you've been going through a tough time... I can't even imagine having to quit smoking tobacco, I hope things improve for you while detoxing . In response to your question, no I don't vape any longer and luckily the symptoms seem to have cleared up in a few days. I'm sleeping better now aswell and my heart is no longer racing when I get into bed. I am afraid that these vape pens may cause some serious long term damage and no studies can actually be done as of yet.

 

[Josi]

Wow I'm sorry to hear about this Rhiannon. It sounds like you've been going through a tough time...

Thanks Keyhole.

I can't even imagine having to quit smoking tobacco,

Luckily for me, it isn't very hard for me to quit - was only smoking about 6 cigarettes a day. I would like to smoke, but I can take it,or leave it, and actually smoking kinda robbed me of energy. Now when exercise I have a lot more stamina. I will likely take it up again at some point though.

I hope things improve for you while detoxing .

Thanks! Really hope detoxing will eventually work. If it is nano-particles, it is likely nickel that is the culprit for me. I know I am sensitive to earrings that have nickel in them.

I am very good with my diet, and it is very frustrating because I would be feeling pretty fantastic almost all of the time if were not for these weird symptoms.

In response to your question, no I don't vape any longer and luckily the symptoms seem to have cleared up in a few days. I'm sleeping better now aswell and my heart is no longer racing when I get into bed.

So glad they cleared up for you.

I am afraid that these vape pens may cause some serious long term damage and no studies can actually be done as of yet.

I am afraid so too. My experiment with them was only over two to three weeks. There is nearly nothing to find yet, don't think it is going to be good in the long term.

 

[Stoneboss]

If anyone is interested, I received an email from "Leaf Only" advertising a new and improved tobacco shredder. It also has the option of removing the handle and connecting a cordless drill (an electric drill would work too) to it to speed up the process. It sells for $135 USD.

https://www.leafonly.com/cigarette-tobacco-leaf/tobacco-accessories/tabletop-fine-cut-shredder

 

[SeekinTruth]

Rhiannon, the chelation treatments should help with any metal toxicity, so keep them up. Perhaps look into supplements that would offset the metals too, e.g. nickel vs whatever would be an antagonist, just as an example. If I have time, I'll look into it and post, as I do remember reading about these things years ago. Another thing to research is niacin, MSM, etc. for detoxing and chelating possibilities.

 

[Psalehesost]

Perhaps worth mentioning again, there's another alternative for situations where one can't smoke: snus.

I think they have also banned ecigs from planes or are about too and even if it is not banned my friend who frequently flies sayspople assume they are not allowed and are told not to use them.

I guess that, along with the problems some have mentioned having with e-cigs recently, makes snus even more relevant as an alternative. I'm guessing they won't stop someone from opening a tin and putting some stuff under their upper lip (which is what you do with snus). Then when one is done with it, it can be pushed out with the tongue into e.g. some tissue paper.

It takes a few minutes for the nicotine delivery to kick in, and then it does quite strongly, fairly quickly. After half an hour or so, some tobacoo flavor remains but most of the available nicotine is absorbed.

 

[davey72]

Thank you Keyhole!!! I will order next month in Virgin vapors. I wanted organic liquids, absolutely. Even if I continue to be lost in this subject because if they lie with tobacco they also lie with e-cigarettes. That's for sure.

Thanks.

Hi Loreta,

I had ordered a lot from Virgin Vapors and really liked them. I would just say, if at any point you feel any weirdness, like front teeth feeling numb, stop vaping. Just say'n!

I have a confession to make which I have been putting off the last few weeks. Smoking the liquid e-cigarettes has actually been making my throat extremely sore, making my tongue feel numb and has caused me breathing difficulties (wheezing and coughing). I was reluctant to post this here because I think I have been in denial and try to block out whatever negative symptoms I was experiencing mainly because of how much I enjoyd the vaping.

I came across this article my Mercola a few weeks ago and thought it would be important for anyone who vapes to be aware of this :

[..]
Electronic Cigarettes Contain Toxic Metal Nanoparticles

After testing the aerosol from a leading manufacturer of electronic cigarettes, it was found to contain metals including tin, copper, nickel and silver, silicate beads and nanoparticles. In some cases, such as in the case of tin particles, the amounts were greater than you might be exposed to from smoking a conventional cigarette. The researchers concluded:3

“Cartomizer aerosol from a leading manufacturer of EC [electronic cigarette] contained metals, silicate beads, and nanoparticles. Poor solder joints appear to have contributed to the presence of tin in the aerosol. In cytotoxicity tests, cartomizer fluid containing tin particles inhibited attachment and survival of hPF [human pulmonary fibroblasts].

Other metals likely came from the wires (copper, nickel, silver) and other metal components used in the cartomizers, while silicate particles appeared to come from the fiberglass wicks.

While the outer fibers filtered out many of the tin particles, significant amounts of tin, other metals, and silicate beads escaped into the aerosol and would result in human exposure, in some cases probably greater than a conventional cigarette user would experience.” [emphasis added]

The effects of toxic metal exposures can range from subtle symptoms to serious diseases. Since metals build up in your body over time, symptoms are often attributed to other causes and people often don't realize that they have been affected by metals until it's too late. Further, once metals build up in your body they can cause irreversible damage.

Why Breathing in Metal Nanoparticles May be Dangerous

Adding to the potential risks are nanoparticles, which, due to their ultramicroscopic size, can easily enter your bloodstream, blood vessels and other body tissues, causing unknown consequences. As written by Sayer Ji, founder of GreenMedInfo.com:4

“One of the unintended, adverse consequences of nanotechnology in general is that by making a substance substantially smaller in size than would occur naturally, or though pre-nanotech production processes, the substance may exhibit significantly higher toxicity when in nanoparticle form.

Contrary to older toxicological risk models, less is more: by reducing a particle's size the technology has now made that substance capable of evading the body's natural defenses more easily, i.e. passing through pores in the skin or mucous membranes, evading immune and detoxification mechanisms that evolved millions of years before the nanotech era.

For example, when nickel particles are reduced in size to the nanometer range (one billionth of a meter wide) they may actually become more toxic to the endocrine system as now they are capable of direct molecular interaction with estrogen receptors in the body, disrupting their normal structure and function. Moreover, breathing these particles into the lungs, along with other metals, ethylene glycol and nicotine produces a chemical concoction exhibiting synergistic toxicity, i.e. the toxicity of the whole is higher than the sum of their parts.”

Article can be found here:_http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/04/10/electronic-cigarette.aspx

Hi Keyhole,

Sorry that you are having negative symptoms. Have you stopped vaping? I hope your symptoms stop when you do.

Even though I stopped vaping in Nov. 2013, I am still dealing with some off and on weirdness in my teeth (a prickly/numbness feeling), and my sinuses sometimes feel like having a slight sinus infection, but without all the mucous, and I get a headache. It isn't everyday, or all the time, and I can't figure out what causes it to flare up. I sometimes have a few days in a row that I feel great, thinking "oh, it is finally over", but then it flares up again. Right now I am on a fifth day in a row of feeling symptoms. Taking naproxin, or ibuphrofren barely helps, and I hate taking them, but sometimes I just have to. It really is draining. It all goes back to the very beginning of vaping, and I personally wish I never tried it.

Here is my original post when I began:
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,26825.msg450203.html#msg450203

I read Mercola's article before. I do wonder if the nanoparticles are in my mucous membrane. I have done a few rounds of EDTA, and I now am drinking green clay to try and pull whatever out of my system. I am hoping it is not irreversible. It sucks.

If anyone has any suggestions what else I could do, please let me know.

P.S. I have even stopped smoking tobacco for the last 2 months, because it seemed to intensify my symptoms.

Wow. Sorry to hear about the problems. I remember Laura praising the vaporizer at one time for taking on the plane i think. I wonder if she has any new insight into them. Im also curious what the C's would say.

 

[shijing]

Rhiannon, the chelation treatments should help with any metal toxicity, so keep them up.

I agree, Rhiannon -- if you're in a position to do it, it might be good to ask a doctor to help you do a heavy metal challenge to see how much of what kinds of metals you actually have sequestered in your system. A sensitivity to nickel earrings could indicate that you've had some metal toxicity building up for awhile. A good heavy metal detox (done lightly but persistently) can take 6-12 months depending on the severity of the case.

Regarding your experience with smoking, I've had similar experiences under certain conditions -- I've noticed that if I'm already fatigued, smoking can actually make it worse; if I'm feeling good, it has the opposite effect and everything is fine. I know that in the first scenario, mixing up some vitamin C and magnesium powder and drinking it helps me feel better. Regarding smoking, it's probably important to treat it in the same way that diet was discussed in the last session -- there's a lot of interpersonal variability and no two people are the same. May I ask what brand of tobacco you use?

I'm sorry to hear about your experiences with the e-cigarettes. I've been kind of wary of these, but never really looked into them. Besides the problem with nanoparticles mentioned above, it looks like there may also be a danger of solvents breaking down into carbonyls:

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/health-risks-e-cigarettes-emerge

And the solvents can transform into something even more worrisome: carbonyls. This group includes known cancer-causing chemicals, such as formaldehyde, and suspected carcinogens, such as acetaldehyde. Because early e-cigarettes didn’t deliver the same powerful hit of nicotine that burning tobacco does, engineers developed second-generation technology that allows users to increase an e-cigarette’s voltage, and thus temperature, to atomize more nicotine per puff.

But the higher temperatures also can trigger a thermal breakdown of the solvents, producing the carbonyls, explains Maciej Goniewicz of the Roswell Park Cancer Institute in Buffalo, N.Y. If users of second-generation e-cigarettes maximize the power on their devices while using vaping liquids containing a solvent mix of glycerin and propylene glycol, formaldehyde levels can reach that found in tobacco smoke, his team reports May 15 in Nicotine & Tobacco Research.

Since smoking research is so ideologically-driven, it's probably best to collect as much data as possible before reaching a final conclusion. Nevertheless, based on what you've described it's probably best that you've stopped using them for now.

 

[Josi]

Regarding smoking, it's probably important to treat it in the same way that diet was discussed in the last session -- there's a lot of interpersonal variability and no two people are the same. May I ask what brand of tobacco you use?

Shijing,
Thanks for your post.

I had been smoking Leaf Only, organic Canadian Virginia.

 

[shijing]

I had been smoking Leaf Only, organic Canadian Virginia.

OK, thanks Rhiannon -- I'm just trying to figure out if there's a difference between the different organic tobacco brands and how they might affect people.

 

[A Jay]

I didn't find anything in the thread on this, but something I've noticed lately is that as soon as I start to feel the pollen getting to me (or whatever is in the air making me want to sneeze) if I light up I'm fine. I'm not sure if it's an anti-inflammatory thing or maybe some kind of anti-histamine reaction, but I wonder if anyone else has noticed that smoking has a positive effect on their allergies?

 

[pete02]

I didn't find anything in the thread on this, but something I've noticed lately is that as soon as I start to feel the pollen getting to me (or whatever is in the air making me want to sneeze) if I light up I'm fine. I'm not sure if it's an anti-inflammatory thing or maybe some kind of anti-histamine reaction, but I wonder if anyone else has noticed that smoking has a positive effect on their allergies?

The little bit of spring time allergies that I had pretty much went away with the keto diet but once in a while I will still get a sneezing or coughing attack whether it be from too much pollen or exhaust fumes or whatever may be floating in the city air that day and I do know exactly what your talking about. I too have noticed that a few puffs from the pipe calms me right down. I'm not sure what the reaction involved is either but it works for me!

 

[SeekinTruth]

Hmm. Now that you mention it, my brother used to have pollen allergies when he was a teenager. That's when he started smoking, and as the years went by and he smoked more and more, he didn't have the allergies anymore.