Smoking is... good?

[Ant22]

Thank you so much everyone Although I'm a little sad this hasn't worked out for me too well, I don't really see much point in forcing myself to suffer through it. Frankly, after that one daily cigarette I haven't had much strength to do much else with my day as I was always quite exhausted, even after I more or less recovered.

I know that the C's said that certain people benefit form smoking more if they fit a certain profile, but the way I see it is that all the studies quoted here and posted on SOTT about benefits of smoking weren't done on people who necessarily fit that profile, so cigarettes have positive impact for the wider population, right? The only reason why I'm keeping at it is precisely those benefits.

I have been thinking about the above part of my earlier post and I think I there's a fallacy there. The studies were done on SMOKERS, so people who most likely DO fit the profile. I don't see how someone could experience the same symptoms as me and still smoke multiple cigarettes per day for an extended period of time to qualify for a study done on smokers. I've only been keeping at it due to all the article I read about the benefits, someone who doesn't have this kind of motivation would most likely be put off by the experiment rather quickly.

In my case peer pressure was super strong when I was in high school as all of my friends smoked - and yet I never even got past the coughing stage at that time. And that cough felt like someone stabbed my throat with razors, sometimes my throat would still hurt the following day - as opposed to this kind of experience:

By the way, I never experienced the famous coughing while smoking not even for my first cigarette/-s. And that holds true even though I smoke the strongest natural tobacco I could find without filters for over a decade now.

And a few other points I'll reply to:

I also get immediately nauseous with commercial cigarettes. Part of it is the tobacco and whatever they add to the paper and leaves that stinks so awfully, but.. personally, the filters also, as they get hot they leak this plastic tasting thing, which is awful. So, are you using filters?

Yes, I buy natural filters and paper. I can't stand commercial cigarettes at all, but although the natural variety doesn't make me cough (well, not anymore at least), the aftermath of each cigarette is still quite awful.

@Ant22 - have you tried cigarillos? That’s what I started out with, and at some stage I moved on to rollies. The filter might also be the problem. I use now only rolled card-board strips, which do not filter anything, just prevent the tobacco from crumbling into your mouth.

I have actually, and I felt like I was going to spit my lungs out. Natural cigarettes are pretty much the only ones I can handle. Interestingly enough, my mom's husband who never smoked before recently can handle them without any issues whatsoever. My mom smokes with ease too, and my father has been a chain smoker all his life. He's had two heart attacks and his doctors categorically told him to quit - so he quit for a week and then started vaping because he felt like he just couldn't live without any form smoking. My brother was a heavy smoker for years too. I guess I'm the odd one out in the family.

Maybe try to find other sources of nicotine, to have as "medicine" in case it's needed? That's what I would do in your case, rather than to keep forcing myself to smoke. Some aren't great (like Velo/zim that Tucker Carlson uses, or lozenges or chewing gums), because they had artificial sweeteners and such. I'm sure we'll come up with healthier options. But in the meantime, if you want some nicotine, something like that might be easier for you?

I'm thinking of nicotine patches for now, and I'm also keeping an eye on the vaping thread. I think I'll give vaping a go at some point just to make sure I definitely gave smoking a proper try, but I guess it's time to throw in the towel on the cigarette smoking experiment

 

[Konstantin]

Thank you so much everyone Although I'm a little sad this hasn't worked out for me too well, I don't really see much point in forcing myself to suffer through it. Frankly, after that one daily cigarette I haven't had much strength to do much else with my day as I was always quite exhausted, even after I more or less recovered.

I would not force smoking if your body is telling you not to do it. Just find some other source of nicotine.
I started smoking 2 years ago. I never smoked my whole life although many of my friends did. I remember when I was a kid I liked the smell of tobacco so much that I would take a cigar from my father when he was not looking at me and just smell it and enjoy the smell of the tobacco.

So, maybe you are just not the person who fits the profile that smoking tobacco will benefit you. Don't force it.

I have actually, and I felt like I was going to spit my lungs out. Natural cigarettes are pretty much the only ones I can handle. Interestingly enough, my mom's husband who never smoked before recently can handle them without any issues whatsoever. My mom smokes with ease too, and my father has been a chain smoker all his life. He's had two heart attacks and his doctors categorically told him to quit - so he quit for a week and then started vaping because he felt like he just couldn't live without any form smoking. My brother was a heavy smoker for years too. I guess I'm the odd one out in the family.

I never coughed from smoking tobacco. I am using a tobacco that I buy in a box in a shop and I roll my cigarettes in Filter Tubes.
Several times I tried a commercial cigarette and it tasted terrible. I can't smoke them.

I usually smoke from 5-8 cigarettes per day. Sometimes if I go over 10 then they just taste bad, so it is a sign that it is enough for that day.

 

[Mari]

@Ant22 First, I would also say that if you can´t get used to smoking, then I agree with others - try a different way of nicotine intake.

I tried nicotine gums as an alternative when I´m on the way, and I also now purchased vape today to see how that works.
I smoke now for 27 years now and i.e. with nicotine gums, if I leave them in my mouth, I feel weird, so I chew a bit and then put the gum aside. It worked ok during i.e. flight and travel; I don´t have that strong urge to smoke.

On this point

Yes, I buy natural filters and paper.

Since you are smoking only since recently, I presume you are not super skilled at rolling. The strength of the cigarette varies based on how tick the cigarette is and on how dry the tobacco is, which might be also reasons why you cough and why you are super dizzy - maybe it´s as simple as too much tobacco (dizziness) or tobacco is too dry (coughing).

The more dry it is, the heavier it is to smoke for me. Like, it burns my throat. So I put a piece of salad in my tobacco that keeps the moisture. It will dry in a 2-3 days so you simply change it, and in that way my tobacco never gets mouldy or something. In case I don´t have salad, I put in apple peel, but that one is trickier as it has more moisture than salad and if tobacco is too wet, it is again difficult to smoke. For a normal 30g package, a small piece of salad will do - i.e. take the white part of the salad and cut it to the size of your thumb and put it in the middle of the tobacco.

Next, the thickness of the paper is also important. I use 18,5 g/m2 and that is optimal for me personally; other thickness change the flavour too much and the cigarette may come out too strong.
The size of the filter is also important; as I noticed before, the ticker the cigarette is - the more tobacco you inhale. I use 6 mm slim filters.

If you want to give the smoking one last cry, then I would suggest that you buy a simple small rolling machine and in that way you can put an optimal amount of tobacco, so not stuff it too much, and then see how it goes. I like it when tobacco isn´t squeezed and stuffed; take a pinch of it and then another and put it next to each other so it´s all nice and fluffy and then roll.

Added: Also don´t buy very strong tobacco; if there is an option, always go for mild tobacco types, like Virginia. If your tobacco is black, that mostly indicates it is strong. Virginia is i.e. yellow-ish.

Even though I´m an "old smoker", I still sometimes get dizzy with my first morning cigarette - I think that is due to my default low blood pressure. So, not once I´ve noticed that if I get up fast, don´t eat, etc, and then smoke, my blood pressure would drop so much that I would literarily see the stars. So maybe that one is also a thing to check - if you are suffering from the same problem of the low blood pressure in general, maybe drink first or take a bite of something before your first cigarette. Sometimes it also happens in the middle of the day simply just because my blood pressure dropped. It´s weird as research indicates that it should increase the blood pressure but for me it appears it does the opposite, so maybe it does similar to you too.

I hope this helps and I hope you find something that works perfectly for you!

 

[Konstantin]

Since you are smoking only since recently, I presume you are not super skilled at rolling. The strength of the cigarette varies based on how tick the cigarette is and on how dry the tobacco is, which might be also reasons why you cough and why you are super dizzy - maybe it´s as simple as too much tobacco (dizziness) or tobacco is too dry (coughing).

The more dry it is, the heavier it is to smoke for me. Like, it burns my throat. So I put a piece of salad in my tobacco that keeps the moisture. It will dry in a 2-3 days so you simply change it, and in that way my tobacco never gets mouldy or something. In case I don´t have salad, I put in apple peel, but that one is trickier as it has more moisture than salad and if tobacco is too wet, it is again difficult to smoke. For a normal 30g package, a small piece of salad will do - i.e. take the white part of the salad and cut it to the size of your thumb and put it in the middle of the tobacco.

I tried everything, and the best option for me is to keep the tobacco in the freezer at -16 to -18°C. I put the box with the tobacco in a nylon bag to prevent it from getting wet, and then place it in the freezer. When I need tobacco, I take out just the amount needed to make 10-15 cigarettes for a day or two.

This way, the tobacco stays fresh for months. If the tobacco sometimes has too much moisture, I leave it on the table for 10-15 minutes to dry a little. If it is too dry, I spray it with a little water mist and leave it on the desk until the texture and moisture are perfect.
No mold and sharp taste in the throat from a dry tobacco.

 

[meadow_wind]

Yesterday, I tried another type of tobacco, some oriental variety which has a "normal" amount of nicotine. All the oriental samples smell sooooo good when I open their bag! It's a little disappointing that they don't smell/taste as good once they burn...
I did not get the dizzy spell afterward like I do when I smoke the Rustic one which has a high nicotine %. It was also smoother to smoke, and not so burnt a taste, but it did not feel as pleasurable as smoking the rustic variety. And I felt a little tired afterward. Interesting...
In my case, I will keep the smoking for relaxation/meditation purposes. Or for recovering smell/taste after a "bug".

 

[Mari]

I tried everything, and the best option for me is to keep the tobacco in the freezer at -16 to -18°C. I put the box with the tobacco in a nylon bag to prevent it from getting wet, and then place it in the freezer. When I need tobacco, I take out just the amount needed to make 10-15 cigarettes for a day or two.

This way, the tobacco stays fresh for months. If the tobacco sometimes has too much moisture, I leave it on the table for 10-15 minutes to dry a little. If it is too dry, I spray it with a little water mist and leave it on the desk until the texture and moisture are perfect.
No mold and sharp taste in the throat from a dry tobacco.

Amazing! Have to try this! Tnx!

 

[HyperdimensionalApe]

Nicotine enhances the thickness of biofilm and adherence of Candida albicans ATCC 14053 and Candida parapsilosis ATCC 22019

What's your opinion on this study?

 

[flashgordonv]

Nicotine enhances the thickness of biofilm and adherence of Candida albicans ATCC 14053 and Candida parapsilosis ATCC 22019

What's your opinion on this study?

First question is always - who funded the study?
Second thing I note is that this is a study comparing saliva from 1 smoking and 1 non smoking person. 2 people do not make a realistic study.

 

[meadow_wind]

Nicotine enhances the thickness of biofilm and adherence of Candida albicans ATCC 14053 and Candida parapsilosis ATCC 22019

What's your opinion on this study?

It seems it has to do with oral health:

"Abstract: (...) The transcriptional agglutinin-like sequence 3 (ALS3) genes in both species are responsible for the development of biofilm and colonization on tooth surfaces. (...) Therefore, nicotine influences the biofilm development of oral-associated C. albicans ATCC 14053 and C. parapsilosis ATCC 22019."

"Discussion: (...) In conclusion, the composition and proportion of Candida cells and amount of EPS in the biofilm matrix were profoundly altered by the presence of nicotine. After exposing the cells to 1 and 2 mg/mL of nicotine, C. albicans and C. parapsilosis became the major species in the biofilms and at the same time, the level of EPS drastically increased. It is noteworthy that the microbiological and molecular data corresponded with confocal imaging analysis results. In Candida sp., ALS3 and HWP1 genes were responsible for increasing the formation of microcolonies and the thickness of biofilms, which could contribute to oral candidiasis."

At first glance, I would not worry too much about this, especially if an individual has a healthy buccal hygiene routine.
I found that brushing and flossing are insufficient to remove all the tart. So I bought a dental tool, a sickle scaler, to help with my routine. It does wonders and I feel like I'm out of the dentist's office each time after using it. I finish with Listerine to nuke anything left.

Here's the method on how to use it properly:

 

[nicklebleu]

What's your opinion on this study?

Don’t know how well that translates to a real human oral cavity - it’s a model, lacking the rest of the flora in the mouth, so not sure what relevance this has.

From a clinical perspective I am not sure if oral candidiasis is correlated with smoking or the amount of it. Interesting though is the fact that high nicotine concentration seems to inhibit biofilm formation (while lower concentrations seems to facilitate it), but the say that these levels are not reached in humans (4 - 8 mg/ml). Heavy smokers allegedly only reach around 2.5 mg/ml …

This is not going to deter me from smoking …

 

[Iain]

As announced in the King's Speech, the Tobacco and Vapes Bill will be introduced at some point into the UK Parliament (a bill originally proposed by the former Conservative government):

Labour smoking ban update as anyone born after this exact date affected

A proposal by the former Tory government to ban young people from ever purchasing tobacco products will be carried forward under the new Labour leadership.

www.express.co.uk

Read out by King Charles at the State Opening of Parliament today, the bill will also cover other nicotine products often favoured by young people, including flavoured vapes and nicotine pouches.

In a major update to the progress of the legislation, it has been confirmed that the new restriction on the purchase of nicotine products will apply to children born on or after 1 January 2009.

 

[iamthatis]

I found this DIY chewing tobacco recipe that I'm going to try to make sometime soon. A lifetime ago in high school I tried chew with my hockey team, took too much and spent a good long time on the edge of vomiting. I haven't tried it in a looong time. It's not the most aesthetic tobacco practice, but maybe better than snuff. I will see how it goes and if I can tolerate it. Anyways, another alternative route for getting nicotine in the system.

Lots of other recipes online, too.

 

[forrestlittle]

A couple of thoughts I have on this post. My intuition has been that whole leaf tobacco, not american spirit but instead bought whole and un taxed online from sites such as leaf only, when used on its own without paper, has very different effects than other ways of using tobacco (various brands and while using paper along side). This is food for thought and not an endorsement of the practice. If people are into harm reduction and are interested in switching to this, I cannot even make the suggestion to do so, since its an open question whether it distracts from simply ceasing the behavior, but my sense is that it may be easier to ultimately quit from that point, the substance used in its un commercialized state.

Is it good/ protective against aliens, emfs, other mind influences?

My mind always goes to those amazonian shaman who are constantly smoking tobacco. Granted theyre also constantly grounded and breathing fresh air and fresh diet.

As for alcohol, I've noticed certain types do better for me, hard kombucha in particular, but not all brands. I've also noticed that if its bought from a local co-op it has far different effect on my dreams than if I get it from a more big box store.

There's a book called The Drawing of The Dark by Tim Powers that gives an interesting perspective on Alcohol as the center of consciousness in European society from a fantasy perspective.

Also to note, according to Clif High, German beer became highly regulated when it was no longer permissible to put mushrooms in it.

Commonly demonized, little understood, likely transformative to human consciousness, and I sense their effects can all be achieved in other ways through self hypnosis and psychic development.

Thoughts

 

[neonix]

worked hard to overcome my nicotine addiction (cigs, vape, and bong) as it was physically and mentally harming me.

I'm interested in smoking/nicotine again but would like to either do it ceremonial, like & guided by First Nations OR maybe do it myself but only with the highest and best quality. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I would move forward? Maybe it's not advisable because I used to be addicted to it? I have never been completely free as I seem to ALWAYS have someone in my life who smokes.. ex, family, co workers, family, neighbors, partners

Maybe you suffer from nicotinism? It's type of addiction very simmilar to narcotic addiction. For some people nicotine can work as stimulant and for some people can have calmative effect. Additional substances in cigarets can also have stimulant effect.

I'm not therapist, but trauma is often a trigger for nicotinism.

If you want to move forward you should find a source of clean nicotine/tabacco.
Use trials and errors technique and try different sources. You can try cigarillos or cigars. You can find farmer that sells you tabacco on the internet.

In some countries selling tabacco without tax is illegal. Even possesion of tabacco without tax is illegal, but you don't need big quantities of tabacco if you use it as daily medicine. You can pay tax becouse you don't need a lot of tabacco.

You can grow your own tabacco leaveas.

 

[neonix]

Is menthol cigarette ban (in the name of black voters health) a cover story for some benefits of menthol ? I remember hearing benefits of menthol? If so what are those?

In 2020 European Union ban methol cigarettes, menthol flavored tabacco and cigarettes with menthol capsules in filter. They claims that menthol cigarettes are more atractive for smokers and youth than regular cigarettes.

In Poland I can buy small cardboard with menthol and put it into cigarrete package. In this
way you can have legal menthol cigarettes.

I would not recommend to smoke commercial cigarettes with commercial menthol. I don't know if they use synthetic menthol or natural menthol, but I don't trust them.


BTW. There is theory that cadmium in tabacco couse cancer. Does all tabacoo leaves contain cadmium or only those that grows in area where soil is reach in this element? Is throat cancer is more popular than lung cancer?