Smoking is... good?

[JEEP]

Re: new to smoking :what are the healthy guidelines.

Hello everyone! This is my first post in regards to smoking. I am a nonsmoker, from a family of nonsmokers, who never had any desire to smoke and was happy that smoking in public places was slowly being eliminated. Needless to say, discovering through this forum that nicotine and smoking is actually highly beneficial was a shocking revelation! However, I can't see myself running out and taking up smoking--I did think about nicotine patches though. I did remember that the C's said actually inhaling the smoke was the best way to infuse the nicotine. Part of my interest was that I have a parent diagnosed with Alzheimer's. All my family is O+ (I'm not up to speed on the blood type thing yet).

The point of my post is a front page article in my local paper regarding electronic cigarettes (e-cigarettes) which are legal to use at work and other public places where smoking is banned.

The slim, battery-powered device resembles a traditional cigarette, but is marketed as tobacco-free. E-cigarettes contain an atomizer that turns liquid nicotine into a vapor that's inhaled, giving the user the sensation of smoking.

The person profiled in the article indicates that one nicotine cartridge lasts her about three days and gives a stronger buzz than a cigarette and her spouse no longer complains that her mouth tastes like a chimney.

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has not approved e-cigarettes and has halted 17 shipments of them from coming into the country since March 1, said Karen Riley, and FDA spokeswoman. She said many of the blocked shipments arrived from China, where most e-cigarettes are made. The FDA says e-cigarettes are "drug-delivery devices," not tobacco products, and is evaluating them on a case-by-case basis, Riley said.

Shelly Kiser, director of advocacy for the American Lung Association in Ohio said, "There have been no scientific studies of these devices, and so we don't know anything about them. We don't know what it does to your system when you inhale evaporated nicotine."

At the two shops that sell them locally, the cost for a starter kit is $139.99 and includes one unit, a charger and eight nicotine cartridges. A chart in the article indicates that an e-cigarette is equivalent to 6 regular cigarettes, averaging 90 puffs with nicotine levels of 6 to 24 mg, but at the maximum of 24 mg, a delivery of 0.16 mg per puff, or the exact same level as a regular cigarette with 1.8 mg of nicotine.

A brief video showing how an e-cigarette works can be viewed at _http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/multimedia/video/hd_video.html?playerId=dispatchlargecustom&referralObject=5940983

Besides the fact that they are a product of China (think tainted food products), I would want to know if the C's say they are good or not. Maybe Laura can ask at the next session.

 

[Vulcan59]

Re: new to smoking :what are the healthy guidelines.

Jeep, checkout this thread here about Cigarettes of the Future.

 

[JEEP]

Re: new to smoking :what are the healthy guidelines.

Jeep, checkout this thread here about Cigarettes of the Future.

OMG, this topic was discussed almost a full year ago! No sleeping dogs on this forum! Hopefully, although my post was not completely new info, it is more recent, expanded, and updated? I don't think the article I referenced mentioned propylene glycol, but the linked video showed and noted the exhaling of water vapor. I would worry about the propylene glycol component of this tobacco smoking alternative.

Thanks for the headsup! :D

 

[3DStudent]

Re: new to smoking :what are the healthy guidelines.

Those e-cigs are pretty cool, I think. They have the rarer e-cigar and e-pipe, too. I think they use propylene glycol as a preservative in some pipe tobaccos, and it has a distinct taste.

 

[seek10]

Re: new to smoking :what are the healthy guidelines.

Keep in mind, that if you state that you are not
a smoker on insurance, and when your 'other'
attempts to collect on your insurance, the insurance
company will deny the claims. It's a simple test to
see if there is nicotine in your blood, dead or alive
and the nic "hangs around" a long time before it is
"flushed out".

Yeah, I know it is more expensive, but why bother
if you lie to yourself just to save more money when
your 'other' loses it anyway? Seems kinda silly, huh?

Did you ever hear the phrase: "A bird in the hand
is worth two in the bush"? :D

FWIW,
Dan

Other day , I talked to insurance agent , who came to give the policy after medical test said that " life change decisions after the policy was given is the risk of the company. that is why we do the medical test and what ever comes from the medical test is what we base on". He says that life change decisions are part of the coverage.

 

[dant]

Re: new to smoking :what are the healthy guidelines.

Ok... but what does that statement mean, really?

Seems to me that the statement might be purposely vague?

Is it possible that the medical test is used for `the
company' in order to statistically determine the outcomes
as to whether or not the person under test has the probability
of being a smoker, thus tending towards a policy reduction/
cancellation/denial, posing very little or no risk to `the company'
while they collect your policy fees?

Seems to me, that the risk to `the company' is very high should
you NOT smoke, are completely clean, free of "cancer due to smoking",
forces a policy payout, which is that, they are hoping to avoid?

I guess the devil is in the details...

FWIW,
Dan

 

[seek10]

Re: new to smoking :what are the healthy guidelines.

I am sorry, I was late in replying

Ok... but what does that statement mean, really?

I specifically asked him , what will happen to the policy , If i decide to smoke, he said that policy is based on the current conditions, which is validated with blood test. if the insured gets more habits later, it is still covered. it is the risk company takes

Seems to me that the statement might be purposely vague?

I will call the company and ask again.

Is it possible that the medical test is used for `the
company' in order to statistically determine the outcomes
as to whether or not the person under test has the probability
of being a smoker, thus tending towards a policy reduction/
cancellation/denial, posing very little or no risk to `the company'
while they collect your policy fees?

i don't know , how they does it. price is based on the current risk factors with some probability projections.

Seems to me, that the risk to `the company' is very high should
you NOT smoke, are completely clean, free of "cancer due to smoking",
forces a policy payout, which is that, they are hoping to avoid?

agreed they try to avoid.

I guess the devil is in the details...
Dan

I checked the policy, I don't see any thing related to future medical conditions and I will call them and check

 

[theos]

Re: new to smoking :what are the healthy guidelines.

Has anyone tried clove cigarettes? A popular brand is called Djarum. They are also called kreteks in some parts of the world. My local tobacconist sells clove mixed with chemical free tobacco (or so he says) with rasberry and vanilla flavors.

A bit about clove from wikipedia:

The compound responsible for the cloves' aroma is eugenol. It is the main component in the essential oil extracted from cloves, comprising 72-90%. Eugenol has pronounced antiseptic and anaesthetic properties. Other important constituents include essential oils acetyl eugenol, beta-caryophyllene and vanillin; crategolic acid; tannins, gallotannic acid, methyl salicylate (painkiller); the flavonoids eugenin, kaempferol, rhamnetin, and eugenitin; triterpenoids like oleanolic acid, stigmasterol and campesterol; and several sesquiterpenes.[9]

and

Cloves are used in Ayurveda called Lavang in India, Chinese medicine and western herbalism and dentistry where the essential oil is used as an anodyne (painkiller) for dental emergencies. Cloves are used as a carminative, to increase hydrochloric acid in the stomach and to improve peristalsis. Cloves are also said to be a natural antihelmintic.[2] The essential oil is used in aromatherapy when stimulation and warming are needed, especially for digestive problems. Topical application over the stomach or abdomen are said to warm the digestive tract.

In Chinese medicine cloves or ding xiang are considered acrid, warm and aromatic, entering the kidney, spleen and stomach meridians, and are notable in their ability to warm the middle, direct stomach qi downward, to treat hiccough and to fortify the kidney yang.[3] Because the herb is so warming it is contraindicated in any persons with fire symptoms and according to classical sources should not be used for anything except cold from yang deficiency. As such it is used in formulas for impotence or clear vaginal discharge from yang deficiency, for morning sickness together with ginseng and patchouli, or for vomiting and diarrhea due to spleen and stomach coldness.[3] This would translate to hypochlorhydria. Clove oil is used in various skin disorders like acne, pimples etc. It is also used in severe burns, skin irritations and to reduce the sensitiveness of skin.

Ayurvedic herbalist K.P. Khalsa, RH (AHG), uses cloves internally as a tea and topically as an oil for hypotonic muscles, including for multiple sclerosis. This is also found in Tibetan medicine.[4] Ayurvedic herbalist Alan Tilotson, RH (AHG) suggests avoiding more than occasional use of cloves internally in the presence of pitta inflammation such as is found in acute flares of autoimmune diseases.[5]

In West Africa, the Yorubas use cloves infused in water as a treatment for stomach upsets, vomiting and diarrhea.The infusion is called Ogun Jedi-jedi.

Western studies have supported the use of cloves and clove oil for dental pain, and to a lesser extent for fever reduction, as a mosquito repellent and to prevent premature ejaculation. Clove may reduce blood sugar levels.[6]

Besides the usual anti-smoking propaganda and concerns that the eugenol in clove can numb the throat leading to the weakening of the gag reflex causing upper respiratory infections (on which approximately two deaths -- in people with underlying lung issues -- were blamed) I can't find much in the way of deterrents. I smoke them and find them much smoother than American Spirits.

 

[seek10]

Is Organic natural cigarettes' are safe ?

Is American Spirit 'Organic Natural Cigarette' safe ?.

I thought it should be safe , but the numbers are not matching .

_http://quitsmoking.about.com/od/chemicalsinsmoke/a/tar_in_cigs.htm

Tar" is the term used to describe the toxic chemicals found in cigarettes. The concentration of tar in a cigarette determines its rating:
• High-tar cigarettes contain at least 22 milligrams (mg) of tar
• Medium-tar cigarettes from 15 mg to 21 mg
• Low-tar cigarettes 7 mg or less of tar

so, if the Tar is measure of its toxicity

Form _http://tobaccoproducts.org/index.php/Natural_American_Spirit


*Gold Package Organic Light Filter Tar (K)7.2 mg Nicotine (N)0.96 mg Carbon Monoxide (CO)4mg
*Maroon Package Organic Regular Filter Tar (K)13.3 mg Nicotine (N)1.58 mg Carbon Monoxide (CO)
*Celadon Package Medium Filter Tar (K)13.7 mg Nicotine (N)1.67 mg Carbon Monoxide (CO)
*Yellow Package Light Filter Tar (K)10.9 mg Nicotine (N)1.30 mg Carbon Monoxide (CO)6mg
*Yellow/White Pkg Ultra Light Filter Tar (K)5.9 mg Nicotine (N)0.77 mg Carbon Monoxide (CO)
*Green Package Menthol Filter Tar (K)21.4 mg Nicotine (N)2.17 mg Carbon Monoxide (CO)8mg
*Green/White Pkg Menthol Light Filter Tar (K)13.1 mg Nicotine (N)1.42 mg Carbon Monoxide (CO)
*Black Perique's Tar (K)16.5 mg Nicotine (N)2.02 mg Carbon Monoxide (CO)10mg
*Blue Regular Filter Tar (K)16.0 mg Nicotine (N)1.79 mg Carbon Monoxide (CO)10mg
*Brown Non-Filter Tar (K)27.9 mg Nicotine (N)2.73 mg Carbon Monoxide (CO)

Even the other cigaratte’s have similar amouts of tar. Even Marlboro has 10mg of Tar and 0.8mg of Nicotine

_http://tobaccoproducts.org/index.php/Marlboro
Marlboro has 10mg of Tar and 0.8mg of Nicotine

If organic natural material doesn't have additives , toxicity should be significantly low, but it is not the case, then it should come from other sources?. what are they?. Probably, the answer is in the definitions of Tar, toxicity. some places, it was suggested Tar/nicotine ratio is the measure.

This still puts organic one's nominally ( negligibly) better than non organic ( 7.5 for organic light , 8.9 for the Blue regular filter , 12.5 for marlboro )

Again Tar measurement seems to be not a good measure

_http://news.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news-2/Tar-measurements-on-cigarette-packets-are-misleading-2424-1/
The tar delivery of cigarettes is routinely measured with a machine and, with the exception of the United States, stated on every packet as a legal requirement in almost every country in the world. It is accompanied by measurement of nicotine and often carbon monoxide.

Yet these measurements are now known to be misleading for two reasons. Firstly, human smoking patterns vary greatly and are not mimicked by the machine. Secondly, modern cigarette design encourages over-inhalation, which may lead to the smoker taking in much greater amounts of tar and nicotine than are measured by the machine.

I am not sure whether this matters or not. Are there any other means to measure the toxicity

 

[anart]

Re: Alright, I'm gonna smoke. What's the best plan of attack?

Hi seek10, I'm not sure about the logic involved in going to a 'quitsmoking' website for information on cigarettes. It also seems like you've been struggling with this 'attempt to smoke' issue for awhile and are rather involved in finding reasons not to do it, or reasons to be concerned about doing it. Smoking, while very beneficial for many, is not for everyone. Perhaps it's not for you?

 

[pete02]

Re: Alright, I'm gonna smoke. What's the best plan of attack?

Hi All...

Not to keep beating a dead horse here but I have to go with American Spirits as well. As someone who used to smoke at least a pack a day (Marlboro reds or lights) for more than 25 years, I quit about a year and a half ago and just recently started again. I had read a similar thread here which aroused my curiosity to smoke again but I'm not sure how to provide the link Sorry. Anyway I have been smoking only about 3 or 4 cigs on my days off and when I return to my work week, I have no cravings whatsoever. They do advertise non addictive right on the box and I have to agree. The only thing is that I did hear a rumor from someone that Philip Morris purchased the company and will start using their gunpowder laced paper when making the cigs from now on. I have yet to investigate this but if so, I think the pipe idea is sounding pretty good to me!


Edit: the company belongs to RJ Reynolds America, NOT Philip Morris and they don't say non addictive on the box! (I just got home and verified) My Apologies for the mis info everyone.

 

[seek10]

Re: Alright, I'm gonna smoke. What's the best plan of attack?

Hi seek10, I'm not sure about the logic involved in going to a 'quitsmoking' website for information on cigarettes.

Unfortunately , this is the only place this information is available . so I didn't imagine , they will lie bluntly for natural spirits alone, If they lie , natural spirit may even complain. probably not , when overlords wants it.

It also seems like you've been struggling with this 'attempt to smoke' issue for awhile and are rather involved in finding reasons not to do it, or reasons to be concerned about doing it. Smoking, while very beneficial for many, is not for everyone.

It sounds like a long time , I consciously going slow on this due to the suggested detoxing needs and its addictive nature for what ever the reason ( emotional or not ). I consciously took break in between when ever I am getting too much urge. My initial purchase is getting over, so I am trying to buy new one . I thought of cross checking what american spirit claims, before buying the new one. that is where their claims are not matching . we know , STS is always sneaky for least resistance, that is why I am cross checking.

Perhaps it's not for you?

I felt much better with clear thinking patterns during the early days. I don't know how to quantify now. I will leave this thought for now.

 

[JEEP]

Re: new to smoking :what are the healthy guidelines.

A followup on the e-cigarette article in the Columbus Dispatch (_http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/national_world/stories/2009/07/23/E-cig_0723.ART_ART_07-23-09_A6_GREI9GV.html?sid=101):

FDA Analysis
Toxic chemicals found in e-smokes
Thursday, July 23, 2009 3:09 AM
By Matthew Perrone
Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- Federal health officials said yesterday that they have found cancer-causing ingredients in electronic cigarettes, despite manufacturers' claims that the products are safer than tobacco cigarettes.

The Food and Drug Administration said testing of products from two leading electronic-cigarette makers turned up toxic chemicals, including a key ingredient in antifreeze. FDA scientists said they tested 19 varieties of cigarettes, many of which were fruit- or candy-flavored.

Public-health advocates have complained that the products are marketed toward young people and can serve as a gateway to tobacco smoking. Because electronic cigarettes are not covered by federal tobacco laws, they often are easier for young people to purchase.

Electronic cigarettes produce a nicotine mist absorbed directly into the lungs. Most can easily pass as a tobacco cigarette with slim white bodies and glowing amber tips.

Manufacturers have promoted the products as a healthier alternative to smoking because no burning is involved, and there's no hazardous cocktail of cancer-causing chemicals.

Regulators said they halted 50 shipments of electronic cigarettes at the border, but the manufacturers have already challenged those actions in federal court. The products are made primarily in China.

FDA officials declined to comment on whether they would take action against the two manufacturers whose products were tested. They also declined to identify the companies.

The agency did say it is "planning additional activities" to address safety issues, which might include recalling products or issuing criminal sanctions.

So, regular cigarettes are chock full of toxic cancer-causing chemicals and the FDA has been little concerned for decades. Perhaps the e-cigarettes just need that Surgeon General warning: Using this product could be hazardous to your health. That and a few 'donations' to the right people!

 

[Gimpy]

Re: new to smoking :what are the healthy guidelines.

Has anyone tried clove cigarettes? A popular brand is called Djarum. They are also called kreteks in some parts of the world. My local tobacconist sells clove mixed with chemical free tobacco (or so he says) with rasberry and vanilla flavors.

A bit about clove from wikipedia:

The compound responsible for the cloves' aroma is eugenol. It is the main component in the essential oil extracted from cloves, comprising 72-90%. Eugenol has pronounced antiseptic and anaesthetic properties. Other important constituents include essential oils acetyl eugenol, beta-caryophyllene and vanillin; crategolic acid; tannins, gallotannic acid, methyl salicylate (painkiller); the flavonoids eugenin, kaempferol, rhamnetin, and eugenitin; triterpenoids like oleanolic acid, stigmasterol and campesterol; and several sesquiterpenes.[9]

and

Cloves are used in Ayurveda called Lavang in India, Chinese medicine and western herbalism and dentistry where the essential oil is used as an anodyne (painkiller) for dental emergencies. Cloves are used as a carminative, to increase hydrochloric acid in the stomach and to improve peristalsis. Cloves are also said to be a natural antihelmintic.[2] The essential oil is used in aromatherapy when stimulation and warming are needed, especially for digestive problems. Topical application over the stomach or abdomen are said to warm the digestive tract.

In Chinese medicine cloves or ding xiang are considered acrid, warm and aromatic, entering the kidney, spleen and stomach meridians, and are notable in their ability to warm the middle, direct stomach qi downward, to treat hiccough and to fortify the kidney yang.[3] Because the herb is so warming it is contraindicated in any persons with fire symptoms and according to classical sources should not be used for anything except cold from yang deficiency. As such it is used in formulas for impotence or clear vaginal discharge from yang deficiency, for morning sickness together with ginseng and patchouli, or for vomiting and diarrhea due to spleen and stomach coldness.[3] This would translate to hypochlorhydria. Clove oil is used in various skin disorders like acne, pimples etc. It is also used in severe burns, skin irritations and to reduce the sensitiveness of skin.

Ayurvedic herbalist K.P. Khalsa, RH (AHG), uses cloves internally as a tea and topically as an oil for hypotonic muscles, including for multiple sclerosis. This is also found in Tibetan medicine.[4] Ayurvedic herbalist Alan Tilotson, RH (AHG) suggests avoiding more than occasional use of cloves internally in the presence of pitta inflammation such as is found in acute flares of autoimmune diseases.[5]

In West Africa, the Yorubas use cloves infused in water as a treatment for stomach upsets, vomiting and diarrhea.The infusion is called Ogun Jedi-jedi.

Western studies have supported the use of cloves and clove oil for dental pain, and to a lesser extent for fever reduction, as a mosquito repellent and to prevent premature ejaculation. Clove may reduce blood sugar levels.[6]

Besides the usual anti-smoking propaganda and concerns that the eugenol in clove can numb the throat leading to the weakening of the gag reflex causing upper respiratory infections (on which approximately two deaths -- in people with underlying lung issues -- were blamed) I can't find much in the way of deterrents. I smoke them and find them much smoother than American Spirits.

Hi chachachick,

I used to smoke clove cigs as a dessert treat. :D Another friend of mine that also smokes them said that smoking them too often can lead to 'crystalization in the lungs'....I'm not able to check this out right now (on my way to finish some 'honey-do's') but wanted to mention it before I forget about it. It gives you something to do a search on at least. :)

 

[Nević Nenad]

Re: new to smoking :what are the healthy guidelines.

This not exactly fits in the topic but . . .


I am non smoker. I tried it couple of times and it made me vomiting every time.


But there is a chance that I have this aversion only to industrial made cigarettes. Some time ago one friend was at my house, he rolls his own cigarettes with pure tobacco that he buys somewhere. We were drinking strong, black coffee (on which I am addicted), he of course have lighted his cigarette, and as I was taking a cup of coffee and drinking it, feeling its aroma, in the same time I inhaled his tobacco smoke. It wasn’t bad at all, coffee and tobacco mixed aroma was beautiful, somehow reminds me of a good black chocolate (another addiction of mine :D).