Soul, genes, karma and learning 3D lessons

I know Ouspenski used a similar analogy. He said something along the lines of us all having an airplane but driving it around like a car as analogous to our potential as fully awake humans who walk around asleep. Not sure if that's what you're thinking of. I also don't remember if it was in ISOTM or the 4th Way.

Sorry, probably not very helpful...
 
dugdeep said:
Sorry, probably not very helpful...

Dugdeep, reading that, I felt an instant burst of Judgmentalism - of the "Aw, c'mon, Dugdeep - enough with the self-deprecation!" variety.

Which is....pot, kettle, black, what with my swamp venting lately, but... :-[

Just sayin'... you don't have to necessarily qualify what looks to me like a genuine attempt to be helpful.
 
Joe said:
luke wilson said:
Plus since it appears to be a sort of huge black hole in which anything can be thrown into... it seemed to me that it's setting an impossible challenge for the conscious mind. How can one truly know what lurks where one can't see? It ain't called the unconscious for no reason... Logic dictates it's a black hole that the conscious mind can't truly come to fully know, therefore always leaving us in the position of never having solved the problem.

Not true, I think. Have you ever done something, or repeatedly done something, that you soon regretted? A repeating pattern kind of thing? Have you ever done something that you later wondered "why did I do that? It caused me such a problem!?".

I know you have, because you've written about such things on this forum.


That's your "unconscious", which is colored and shaped by your "predator", the totality of your programs, your wrong beliefs, your biases, prejudices etc. If you want to change it those, then you start the process of learning to spot and then going against those "inclinations" that you indulge yourself in, apparently despite your own best interests. Did you notice there, that I just more or less described two "you's"? You can probably see them too. So, I'd say you already know your unconscious, to some extent.

But I'd second AI's suggestion that your read "Strangers to ourselves" and "Thinking fast and slow", where the fact of these "two yous" are explained in very clear detail.

In regard to the bolded part... the answer is absolutely yes! Sometimes I feel imprisoned by these tendencies, cursed to repeat them for eternity. What makes it so hard to decipher is that the driving forces are hard to pin down/understand. The unconscious is truly a foreboding place that exerts a menacing influence. Sometimes it acts as a friend, other times, as your greatest enemy but in the end, the bottom line is that you are a stranger to yourself, thus why the need to do 'The Work' and be involved in a network.

Regarding the 2 books, I haven't yet had a chance to read them.. I'm currently going through 2 other books -Dabrowski & one that Laura sent across.

I have to say this thread is quite complicated - at least for me. I have to read it a couple of times to understand it.
 
Read one of those two books when you get a chance. If you find it hard to pin down your driving forces, you might want to try journaling at night before sleep, and describing yourself to yourself. Do it for a while. Are you taking iodine? Don't remember anything from you on the thread, although it's a loooong thread.
 
Joe said:
Read one of those two books when you get a chance. If you find it hard to pin down your driving forces, you might want to try journaling at night before sleep, and describing yourself to yourself. Do it for a while. Are you taking iodine? Don't remember anything from you on the thread, although it's a loooong thread.

Yeah, I was taking it up until just before xmas - mainly because that time was hectic schedule wise. I haven't taken it in January but intend on beginning next Monday. Still taking selenium and vit c though.

In the interim, felt a mixture of emotions hard to pin down. Some sort of depressive/gloomy but without entirely being so - relating to 'being doomed to repeat the cycles dictated by the unconscious'.

I'll make sure to consult the iodine thread before I resume as I know there has been a lot going on since xmas time.

Thanks and take care. :)
 
I always liked the They Might Be Giants song, "Where Your Eyes Don't Go" for a great description of the unconscious:

Where your eyes don't go a filthy scarecrow waves its broomstick arms
And does a parody of each unconscious thing you do
When you turn around to look it's gone behind you
On its face it's wearing your confused expression
Where your eyes don't go

Where your eyes don't go a part of you is hovering
It's a nightmare that you'll never be discovering
You're free to come and go
Or talk like Kurtis Blow
But there's a pair of eyes in back of your head

Every jumbled pile of person has a thinking part
that wonders what the part that isn't thinking isn't thinking of
Should you worry when the skullhead is in front of you,
Or is it worse because it's always waiting
Where your eyes don't go?

Where your eyes don't go a part of you is hovering
It's a nightmare that you'll never be discovering
You're free to come and go
Or talk like Kurtis Blow
But there's a pair of eyes in back of your head

Where your eyes don't go a filthy scarecrow waves its broomstick arms
And does a parody of each unconscious thing you do
When you turn around to look it's gone behind you
On its face it's wearing your confused expression
Where your eyes don't go

Approaching Infinity said:
luke wilson said:
Back to the discussion at hand, what do you guys mean when you are referring to the unconscious?

I think you defined it well: everything that is not conscious. Different theorists will bracket different features and content into their own definitions, but that's probably the most complete one: all information received by the mind from the world and the body that we're not consciously aware of, memories, implicit knowledge, basic beliefs and assumptions, biological and social drives, buried emotions, 'psychic' influences, etc.

I think the best overall description still comes from F.W.H. Myers's work on what he called the "subliminal self". (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederic_W._H._Myers) William James said that "through him for the first time, psychologists are in possession of their full material, and mental phenomena are set down in an adequate inventory."

How does one master what is in the unconscious so that we can be free from its dictates? (I believe this to be an impossibility personally as we can't objectively know what is not in our conscious awareness).

Did you read Tim Wilson's "Strangers to Ourselves"? That's probably the first one to read on the topic.
 
caballero reyes said:
Hi, Approaching Infinity:
I do not understand the problem that you mean: "Problem Is That the brain has more connections than there are genes to program them"
It is assumed that the genetic programming is mechanical. I think those "more connections" and "regulatory sequences", can not be outside becauce are derived from the same substance of genes.
It is assumed that the DNA / Gene is from where all programming, but you give to understand that there is a substance outside the program. I do not understand how this can be.

Check out Rupert Sheldrake's books (his latest one, Science Set Free, is pretty good). I don't think his theory is perfect, but his descriptions of the problems in materialism and neo-Darwinism that led to his theory are important. It's not a 'substance' outside the program, it's a non-material way of influencing substances, whether that be some kind of psi phenomena, field phenomena, or something else entirely (or combinations).
 
Joe said:
whitecoast said:
On a personal note, I've had an indigenous past life memory come up before, about being orphaned after my family and village was massacred by an invading tribe. When I was litttle I would always worry about not seeing other family members again after we took separate cars to a family gathering. When I play D&D and other tabletop rpgs, or write stories, all the people I "play" or write about are orphans.

Hi whitecoast, can you identify any character traits or beliefs or attitudes (fears etc.) in your adult life that might relate to this idea of being orphaned or abandoned? And if so, how might they have shaped your relationships with others and with "life" in general?

Sorry I haven't gotten back to you about this right away - answering it kind of felt like pulling on a thread in a sweater. It's a bit tricky sometimes to isolate this program from another program set I will detail below. Warning: wall of text.

To sum up a bunch of stuff, I always felt like there was some kind of impending disaster coming in life. I mentioned previously that I worried about not seeing my mom or dad again if we took separate cars somewhere. There was always this intensity at the back of my mind, like there were consequences for myself and and the world were dire. This came up in my first SRT session with Patrick and Heather. This fear of disaster I had projected itself onto many things, like my childhood fear of God (I was raised semi-agnostic). I would hear stories on conservative radio about bioweapons or nuclear winters, etc., and I would actually worry about those things for days. I was maybe 8 or 9 in those particular incidents.

When I was temporarily christian as a pre-teen, that fear was hell. As a teen and adult, those fears eventually found new life in learning about the mayan calendar and 2012, as well as the wave series by Laura, and the modern prospects of economic and enviromental apocalypse. The biggest effect of that thread was (and is) is that I never plan too far ahead into the future, because the world will change and my plans will no longer make sense. Even doing scant preparedness stuff was all spotty and reactive fear-based thinking: not part of a coherent and conscious strategy. Feeling that sense of doom, in a sick way, was comfortable to me. :scared:

This fear of the future was synergistically coupled with another pernicious co-current from my childhood, which was that I felt ill-equipped for the world, which in a way fueled an indirect fear of not being able to survive abandonment... which is slightly different from fear of abandonment in itself.

As a young boy I was slightly more effeminate than others my age. My parents didn't overtly say anything negative about this, but my mom and dad are both carbon copies of their gender roles: my mom knits and gardens and bakes and my dad loves cars and politics. Implicitly and unconsciously, I think I was perceived as weaker in ways; as a result I was coddled and controlled more than I liked, or was healthy. When young, I felt condescended to a lot. That I was increasingly asocial and belligerently intellectual as I grew older (in part due to Asperger's Syndrome) tended to fuel their concerns and suspicion that I would not be successful in the "real world", that I would be the last to move out after my younger but more "good ol boy" brother (which turned out to be the opposite case).

In one incident I told my dad I wanted to take a year off from school just to work and travel a bit because I didn't know what I wanted to do with the rest of my time at uni, but instead I was told it was best just to figure it out and finish. Ditto to their objection to my spending a week in Barcelona for the conference Laura and Ark held there... because Europe was in a state of turmoil then, apparently! In these types of situations I just protested feebly and backed down, because of this inculcated belief that they knew how to navigate the world better than I, who did not know at all. I resent them and rebel against them in trivial ways to act out the anger of feeling over-controlled in ways that kept me from learning how to deal with life in my own terms. But every time I would ultimately capitulate because that masochism (in the bioenergetic sense) and learned helplessness felt comfortable and familiar to me.

That’s kind of how I am with a lot of people I subconsciously perceive as authority figures like doctors, financial analysts for mod/admins of the forum. I the similar dynamic of wanting to argue but subconsciously feel like I will just alienate myself (i.e. abandoment by surrogate parents/teachers who know better than I do categorically how to survive in the world), so instead I activate a "be nice" program to make peace while still disagreeing inside.

Relating the above program/blockage in my life to genetic karma, my dad wanted to be a car mechanic but was pressured to go into banking by his family, because they thought he would make more money. Due to the spike in trade earnings in this time, he could have supported us by spending his life doing something he loved instead of something he just happened to be good at. On my mom's side, she wanted to be a nurse, but did not have the grades, and was crushed as a teenager. But she enjoyed service and eventually found the bank as a good substitute, which is where they eventually met. So I literally owe my life to neither of my parents doing what they ultimately loved and wanted.

Anyway those two programmed convictions; that there is an impending disaster coming in my life, and that I had no skills to deal with those types of challenges; work pretty synergistically to keep me in a state of paralysis and non-adaptiveness to the creative possibilities of different career and living situations. Essentially it just felt like the majority of my career decisions just ride on the momentum.
 
If you didn't have those restraints that you feel in your character, what would you be doing right now? What choices would you be making differently in your life?
 
fwiw I think this may add to the puzzle:
The cells of our ancestors, children or siblings infiltrate every part of our bodies
How's this for caring? Without being in the same room, building or even the same city as your mother, you can literally patch up her heart. Or your child can patch up yours. It's an idea that takes getting used to at first, but hear us out: you probably left tiny little bits of you inside your mother. And you got stuff from her, too: her cells take up residence in most of your organs, perhaps even your brain. They live there for years, decades even, meddling with your biology and your health.

Sure, your blood, skin, brain and lungs are made up of your own cells, but not entirely. Most of us are walking, talking patchworks of cells, with emissaries from our mother, children or even our siblings infiltrating every part of our bodies. Welcome to the bizarre world of microchimerism. [..]

So, literally carrying genetics of our ancestors (and for mothers, the genetics of their children). I think that sheds some interesting light on unresolved ancestral lessons (and 'becoming like our parents').
What does it say about the kind of relationship you have with your family on a personal (cellular health) level?
 
RedFox said:
So, literally carrying genetics of our ancestors (and for mothers, the genetics of their children). I think that sheds some interesting light on unresolved ancestral lessons (and 'becoming like our parents').
What does it say about the kind of relationship you have with your family on a personal (cellular health) level?

As a child it is so easy to suck up those bad traits from mom and dad. Not becoming like them is almost a lesson in itself IMO.

Until I came to grips with the fact that I inherited my father's manipulative tongue, it would cause so much cognitive dissonance (why am I doing/saying this. It makes me feel bad and it's hurting who I'm talking to). I was in such a mut of denial for so long I don't know if I could have realized and accepted these things later on.
 
whitecoast said:
Anyway those two programmed convictions; that there is an impending disaster coming in my life, and that I had no skills to deal with those types of challenges; work pretty synergistically to keep me in a state of paralysis and non-adaptiveness to the creative possibilities of different career and living situations. Essentially it just felt like the majority of my career decisions just ride on the momentum.

Sounds like taking more decision for your own destiny might be in order, if only small symbolic ones to start with. Making "declarations" in this way to the "universe" of your intent.
 
Thanks, Approaching Infinity for your reply# 81.

This "non-materiel way of Influencing substances" is really interesting and suggests their relationship with activities such as mediumship, psychometrics and other metaphysical activities.
 
I found another article related to this idea of epigenetics, although DNA isn't mentioned specifically.

_http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/like-mother-like-daughter-the-science-says-so-too/


A new study bolsters evidence that brain structure and mood disorders are genetically passed from mother to daughter

We often attribute key characteristics to one of our parents: “He gets his athleticism from his father.” “Her quickness to anger—that’s all her mother.” Whether the genetics are actually pulling the strings in these cases is another story. But a growing body of research has suggested that heredity does apply to mood disorders—including depression, which afflicts more than 2.8 million adolescents in the U.S. alone—and that there is compelling evidence hereditary ties are strong between mothers and daughters.


Researchers in a new study of 35 healthy families published in The Journal of Neuroscience this week have found that the brain’s corticolimbic system, responsible for the regulation of emotion—and associated with the manifestation of depressive symptoms—is more likely to be passed down from mother to daughter than from mother to son or father to child. This finding, which supports past evidence from animal research and clinical studies on depression, could provide a better understanding of the role genetics play in mood disorders and other conditions, allowing better identification of at-risk groups and preventive measures. “Our study’s uniqueness,” says lead author Fumiko Hoeft, an associate professor of psychiatry at the University of California, San Francisco, “is that we’re the first one to get the whole family and scan both parents and offspring to look at how similar their brain networks are. We can tell, even though the genetics are more complicated than we originally thought, who we got our eye color from. And we joke about inheriting stubbornness or organization—but we’ve never actually seen that in human brain networks before. [This research] was a proof of impact, of using a new design that has significant potential.”


Hoeft cites Dr. Seuss’s children’s book Horton Hatches the Egg—in which an elephant sits on a bird’s egg in lieu of its actual mother and a hybrid elephant–bird ends up hatching—as a cartoonish example of the inspiration for this research. The forces of both nature and nurture are at play. “What’s relevant is that it shows the profound influence of prenatal impact on offspring, which we often forget,” Hoeft adds. “Prenatal input is considered in the most severe cases, like alcohol and smoking. But it happens in everyone. A mom being stressed has an impact on her child’s outcome.”


The finding is particularly relevant in light of the recommendations issued today by the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force, which include the screening of pregnant women and new mothers for depression. Although this recommendation is primarily a response to concerns about the role of the “nurture” side of the equation, Hoeft seeks to unravel how biology plays its part as well.


Hoeft and her team took MRI brain scans of each family member in the study—all participants were healthy and none had been diagnosed with depression—and examined voxels, or discrete units of volume, in the corticolimbic system. They found that the association between gray matter volume in the amygdala, anterior cingulate cortex, ventromedial prefrontal cortex and hippocampus (all parts of the corticolimbic system) was much greater in mother–daughter pairings than in any other parent–offspring pairing, which, in turn, may suggest a significant female-specific maternal transmission pattern in mood disorders like depression. “These results are truly interesting and exciting,” says Geneviève Piché, a professor in the department of psychoeducation and psychology at the Université du Québec en Outaouais who has studied a different aspect of the intergenerational transmission of depression, particularly the impact of environmental factors such as parental care and punitive behavior. “But we must remain cautious when we interpret these results,” she says. “For one, only 35 families were studied, and these were 35 healthy families. We cannot be certain that these results can be generalized to depressed families, per se. We’ll have to wait for future studies on depressed mothers and see if we get similar results.”


And, as Hoeft notes, whereas the study does show intergenerational transmission patterns, it does not differentiate between the type of influence at hand: genetic, prenatal or postnatal impacts or some combination of the three could be responsible. “It’s not just one factor, it’s an accumulation of many risk factors that play a role or cause a child to develop depressive symptoms,” Piché adds. Hoeft’s team intends to address this limitation in a new study by examining MRI scans of parents and children in families that used different forms of in vitro fertilization.


The current study opens doors for future research as well. Hoeft is particularly excited about potentially applying this study’s design not only to other mental health conditions, such as autism, but also to forming a better understanding of our addiction and reward systems and even our language abilities (differentiating, for instance, between language, an innate ability that has existed throughout human history and presumably embedded in our genetics, and reading, a relatively far newer skill).


“And these results are also interesting from a preventive point of view,” Piché says, “because in the future it may help us identify and target girls that will be at higher risk of disorders like depression, and then be able to possibly prevent the development of depressive symptoms.”
 
I've been catching up with this thread, and something quite spooky has just happened.

Earlier today, I was listening to the Health and Wellness show: Psi Phenomena and the Health Connection.

It got to a part in the show where Tiffany mentioned a case Laura had worked on that I'd never heard or read about before. About some Jabba The Hut type being sucking the life out of lines of children or something.

It sent shivers down my spine...

Some of my most vivid memories as a child are from very strange semi-dream-like states/dreams. The scariest one is that I'm in a long line of beings or entities; we're not necessarily in human form, but I am myself. We're going along some sort of tunnel that isn't strictly physical, but it's a tunnel nonetheless. The being in front of me seems to know where we're going and has a sort of wickedness about it from the knowing, but I haven't got a clue what's happening.

Eventually, the tunnel opens up into a large underground-like cavern, which is the terminus for a number of other tunnels all the way around it, with other lines of beings and in the middle is this huge, blob type entity; the best way I can describe the memory of its form is a bit like a gigantic maggot. And that's when I realise that we are all its food, and thankfully, that's when I woke up.

So this Jabba The Hut story really freaked me out because it sounded a lot like my dream. So, I wondered about it.

So now, whilst catching up with the thread, I get to Chu's quote from Myth Of Sanity, and read this line about a traumatised woman's dream about the holocaust:

"Always the same. Always just as bad. I'm with a lot of people, in some kind of a long line. I'm naked..."

And again, the memory hit me really hard and sent a shiver down my spine.

All this seems to have come together as some sort of message or some sort of question and answer process. And all while reading a thread that involves the subject of past lives.

I'm not assuming ANYTHING, but the experience of today does have the flavour of a message from the universe. I've never had any kind of idea about whether I've had a past life or anything, but now I'm wondering if the Universe is trying to hint at the idea that maybe, I ended my days in a camp.

God, it's too awful to consider.
 

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