Study and Discussion of the Moving Center

[domwatts23]

There is a book called 'The Good Obyvatel' which is mainly about describing the different roles we should crystallise in ourselves, for example 'the enforcer' and 'the cynic'. its worth a read!

 

[ytain]

You can also read the preview of the book "Zen Body-Being" by Peter Ralston at _http://books.google.ca/books?id=PKMdETf0CeIC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

Ytain

 

[Laura]

There is a book called 'The Good Obyvatel' which is mainly about describing the different roles we should crystallise in ourselves, for example 'the enforcer' and 'the cynic'. its worth a read!

That sounds interesting! I'll order it, thanks.

 

[SolarMother]

I have an idea for an exercise for man#1 to get involved their's emotional and intellectual center. I inspired by one mention which Gurdjieff concluded in Balzebub's Tales... about acting and about it like people playing some roles crystallizing different internal states. It is true that G. indicates that the characters that people generaly played are negative. But for development of student, selected characters which will played would be positive.

Man weighted in the moving center should have no difficulty aping any character. They won't have any problems with copy body move, voice, physically resemble. Student entering into the role would have to understand self into emotions and thinking of character. He would observe its inner state and analyze whether that state is handy or restrictive to play a role. Farther on student would have to write the script, which would include, what he should think and feel to be effective in the best submit a role, and then realize this scenario, and recording whether created emotions and thoughts are integrate with this character.

Meybe this is quite correct idea.

This sounds very useful, sort of "fake it 'til you make it". You could even think of it as "rewriting your own life-script."

That could be very helpful in my case too. Sounds like an acting class which would provide a structure (as long as the class allows the choice of a positive character.) I need to think about who that might be...perhaps a woman who is not an 'hysterical woman' type? :/ ;)

fwiw, this thread is already stressing me out even though I find it fascinating. :/ ;)

I found this recent change in my physical routine helpful: after reading PBPM, I decided to try sprinting 3 times a week, instead of, on those days, my usual walks. It brought out a more 'primal', wild side of feeling sensation (my hunter/gatherer self?) and an overall sense of enthusiasm, energy and well-being that I noticed extends into my whole day.

I am reading and need to re-read this thread. Thank you for starting it Laura.

 

[anart]

I decided to try sprinting 3 times a week, instead of, on those days, my usual walks. It brought out a more 'primal', wild side of feeling sensation (my hunter/gatherer self?) and an overall sense of enthusiasm, energy and well-being

Yes, adrenaline will do that, so it's not necessarily your 'hunter/gatherer self'.

 

[Buddy]

I have an idea for an exercise for man#1 to get involved their's emotional and intellectual center. I inspired by one mention which Gurdjieff concluded in Balzebub's Tales... about acting and about it like people playing some roles crystallizing different internal states. It is true that G. indicates that the characters that people generaly played are negative. But for development of student, selected characters which will played would be positive.

Man weighted in the moving center should have no difficulty aping any character. They won't have any problems with copy body move, voice, physically resemble. Student entering into the role would have to understand self into emotions and thinking of character. He would observe its inner state and analyze whether that state is handy or restrictive to play a role. Farther on student would have to write the script, which would include, what he should think and feel to be effective in the best submit a role, and then realize this scenario, and recording whether created emotions and thoughts are integrate with this character.

Meybe this is quite correct idea.

This sounds very useful, sort of "fake it 'til you make it". You could even think of it as "rewriting your own life-script."

Actually, I like this idea much, much better than my own, for purposes of this topic. Especially since "M" says that the best thing for man 3 is to have close association with man 2 in order to observe, emulate and possibly self-script the 'emotional way', so to speak. :)

 

[mabar]

Although I had not finished the whole thread, I want to thank you Laura for the excerpt's regarding the moving center as well as others for their posts, interesting examples to locate and observe myself.

Lately and after reading “The Tao of Natural Breathing” by Denis Lewis, (I considered it a quite interesting book because it has helped me to understand more the process of breathing, he touches also Gurdjieff’s learning's regarding to the self) … this month I had noticed that while doing EE Breathing –and I could say since I started the program, that I simply have been doing it “naturally forced”?? …

Yesterday after reading the first pages (I have the excerpts printed) I tried to do the meditation breathing more naturally, more … fluid? with no too abruptly stops (pauses) … so I imagine the whole process of inhaling, pause, exhaling, pause as a wave… I was getting certain rhythm until I zoned out and the intersting part is that I felt quite dizzy afterwards. But I still was having certain control (would this be a intrusion form the intelectual center?) with pace, trying to match each phrase with inhaling or breathing or pausing along with the crests from the waves until I decided to stop the control part and that's when I supposed began to breath naturally and soon later I zooned out, because the last thing I remember.

Note: Bud’s exercise of the perception of the room/environment and the process of observation, recalled me of the “Immovable wisdom:
the art of Zen strategy : the teachings of Takuan Soho” by Noboku Hirose another book that I read years back and I am rereading.

It helps another examples and/or experiences from other into trying to grasp the concept.

 

[cubbex]

While both moving center man and emotional man react quickly without thinking - how would you characterize the main difference between these two types?

In the case of emotional man, the tendency may be to empathize or project his own emotions into a situation and respond accordingly. Watching his body or reading his words may give out an indication of the emotion he is feeling.

For a moving center dominated man, the response though quick is less likely to have much of an emotional flavor. It is more likely to be a response which is sort of dry and may seem to be superficially intellectual. He is more likely to search his memory banks to pick out what he thinks is an appropriate response, working chiefly through his formatory apparatus. In many cases the lack of depth would become discernible as compared to a more studied and deliberate response of Man 3. An intellectual man may wait longer to process the information and may even ask more questions to gather more data before giving a response.

Given the mixing of different centers, it may not be easy to make generalizations that would hold true across the board and apply to all cases. However, the above is what I have been able to observe in myself and other people as general tendencies. So fwiw.

Interesting, so, we all work wrongly the centers in different situations and in different ways without being exclusive to one cente, but we have a tendency to work more with one center ?

 

[obyvatel]

Interesting, so, we all work wrongly the centers in different situations and in different ways without being exclusive to one cente, but we have a tendency to work more with one center ?

That seems to be the basis of classification of man into types 1,2,3 in the 4th Way. Here is the cassiopedia entry on the types of man.

 

[beetlemaniac]

I have an idea for an exercise for man#1 to get involved their's emotional and intellectual center. I inspired by one mention which Gurdjieff concluded in Balzebub's Tales... about acting and about it like people playing some roles crystallizing different internal states. It is true that G. indicates that the characters that people generaly played are negative. But for development of student, selected characters which will played would be positive.

Man weighted in the moving center should have no difficulty aping any character. They won't have any problems with copy body move, voice, physically resemble. Student entering into the role would have to understand self into emotions and thinking of character. He would observe its inner state and analyze whether that state is handy or restrictive to play a role. Farther on student would have to write the script, which would include, what he should think and feel to be effective in the best submit a role, and then realize this scenario, and recording whether created emotions and thoughts are integrate with this character.

Meybe this is quite correct idea.

This sounds very useful, sort of "fake it 'til you make it". You could even think of it as "rewriting your own life-script."

I think the "fake it til' you make it" method was what really helped me earlier on when I first started the Work on the forum. It was suggested to me in this thread. Many thanks to Shijing for the guidance. I think it may be a way to build "character," especially in an emotional sense? During those periods, I held on to a very simplified notion of what was good and evil. I did good to the extent that I knew how, and where it was appropriate to (do when asked, preserve free will). I don't know but I think doing good just makes you feel good? So that could be the emotional aspect? Emotions have been a huge mystery for me, although they are slowly getting unraveled as I watch and feel my responses to things.

Maybe what man one needs to do is hold a code of ethics that start off firstly in a simplified form, and then, like in Positive disintegration, a person goes into stages where his values are revised to a higher level? I think this because the "character" that I was playing slowly broke down once I realised that concepts of good and evil were not as simple as I thought they were.

I am beginning to see some people differently. I don't know how to explain it but I am seeing beauty, an unexplainable thing. Seeing that, it made me think that I never really knew all these people, being behind the veil. I never knew you could actually have such intimate contact with another human being. Just wow I guess. Could this be some kind of awakening of empathy?

I don't really know what man I am though, but I'm guessing lazy man #1. That seems to be my center of gravity once things "wind down." But it's just too hard to tell, there are just too many ambiguities. Like man #2 can actually be emotionally inhibited and so on.

 

[Buddy]

Maybe what man one needs to do is hold a code of ethics that start off firstly in a simplified form, and then, like in Positive disintegration, a person goes into stages where his values are revised to a higher level? I think this because the "character" that I was playing slowly broke down once I realised that concepts of good and evil were not as simple as I thought they were.

I am beginning to see some people differently. I don't know how to explain it but I am seeing beauty, an unexplainable thing. Seeing that, it made me think that I never really knew all these people, being behind the veil. I never knew you could actually have such intimate contact with another human being. Just wow I guess. Could this be some kind of awakening of empathy?

I agree with you and tend to answer yes to your question.

Personally I feel that there are a lot of beautiful souls, on here and IRL, who go unrecognized because they unintentionally and unconsciously misrepresent themselves when they speak. I also wonder a lot about people who may be very aware and yet refuse to speak, or refuse to speak much, because they see no adequate way to express themselves?

I believe this to be one effect of English (and all other languages like it), since it's so innately pugilistic, antagonistic, oppositional, contradictory, and so on, yet what choices do we have?

Just adopting and identifying with a language that chops up the world into categories, subjects, objects and dichotomies does the very same "thing" to our awareness and Being due to "quantum interconnectedness", OSIT. We then must do the Work of coming to this visceral realization and piece ourselves back together using the same thinking and talking language that chopped us up in the first place (our awareness and being into so many "I"'s)!

See the apparent paradox? Maybe that's one way to understand why we can't think about the way we think, with the way we think? I think so. :)

 

[stainlesssteve]

Hi all, this is my first post here.
I think it will be useful if we consider what kind of food we provide for our emotional centre.
Broadly, this discussion suffers from the fact that words are the domain of the intellect, the English language is poor in non-linear potentials, and we forget that the coin of the realm in emotion is Being.
Birdsong is fantastic food for feeling.
Anything generated in an urban setting, by people, is not going to do much for a hungry emotional centre, except poison it.
It's clear that a healthy conscience requires a vibrant emotional centre.
Listen to the birds!
They've been singing in perfect harmony for millions of years.
In perfect resonance with the purpose and pattern we're all looking to submit to!

 

[thevenusian]

Hi all, this is my first post here.
I think it will be useful if we consider what kind of food we provide for our emotional centre.
Broadly, this discussion suffers from the fact that words are the domain of the intellect, the English language is poor in non-linear potentials, and we forget that the coin of the realm in emotion is Being.
Birdsong is fantastic food for feeling.
Anything generated in an urban setting, by people, is not going to do much for a hungry emotional centre, except poison it.
It's clear that a healthy conscience requires a vibrant emotional centre.
Listen to the birds!
They've been singing in perfect harmony for millions of years.
In perfect resonance with the purpose and pattern we're all looking to submit to!

Hi stainlesssteve,

Welcome to our forum. :)

We recommend all new members to post an introduction in the Newbies section telling us a bit about themselves, how they found the cass material, and how much of the work here they have read.

You can have a look through that board to see how others have done it.

 

[stainlesssteve]

Thank you for my welcome, Venusian
I will go and do that, in a while.
I wish to say, I have fulfilled some, at least, of my obligations according to the rules, by watching some videos and reading the hints for newbies. I undertake to fulfill your requirement within a few hours, God willing, weather permitting.

 

[beetlemaniac]

Personally I feel that there are a lot of beautiful souls, on here and IRL, who go unrecognized because they unintentionally and unconsciously misrepresent themselves when they speak. I also wonder a lot about people who may be very aware and yet refuse to speak, or refuse to speak much, because they see no adequate way to express themselves?

I believe this to be one effect of English (and all other languages like it), since it's so innately pugilistic, antagonistic, oppositional, contradictory, and so on, yet what choices do we have?

Just adopting and identifying with a language that chops up the world into categories, subjects, objects and dichotomies does the very same "thing" to our awareness and Being due to "quantum interconnectedness", OSIT. We then must do the Work of coming to this visceral realization and piece ourselves back together using the same thinking and talking language that chopped us up in the first place (our awareness and being into so many "I"'s)!

See the apparent paradox? Maybe that's one way to understand why we can't think about the way we think, with the way we think? I think so. :)

Confusing... but I think I get what you are getting at. My thinking doesn't do well on paradoxes. Don't take me seriously here but I think that turning point is where you end up thinking "Oh God! Nothing Matters! Everything just IS!" :D