Study and Discussion of the Moving Center

anart said:
ss said:
With respect to the discussion about lying, please note that the deSalzmann quote you've been wearing around your neck for seven years, says "try, for a moment, to imagine, that you tell lies, complete lies and nothing but lies" or words to that effect. Perhaps, Anart, the moment has passed?

Nope, and people like you prove that. ;) You greatly over-estimate yourself, steve. (also, your data is incorrect, I have not had that signature for 7 years).

I've gotta agree with anart here, steve. Your posts have the flavor of "yes, but" (check out the cass glossary for the term). In other words, "Well yes I agree, but it doesn't really apply to me, for these reasons." You verbally agree, but buffers and illusions about yourself hinder you from actually seeing how true G's words are, and how deeply they apply to you. You 'philosophize' away the real application in the false belief that you know more than you actually do. It's pretty standard egotism, and that's what Gurdjieff was trying to get across. And it's nearly impossible to see on one's own. That's why a network or a 'mirror' is necessary to help us see these parts of ourselves. The way you see yourself is greatly at odds with the way others see you.
 
from years of personal experience as a student and instructor in the field of martial arts, i strongly recommend Tai-Chi for work on and with the moving center.

we tend only to use one side of our bodies [and thus brains] when engaged in specific physical activities. Tai-Chi, either Yang or Chen style, has helped me reach coordination that is more balanced bilaterally.

I've heard from others that various types of physical Yoga also have this physical balancing / increase in coordination effect, although i have not practiced yoga in any serious manner myself.
 
"So, any suggestions about how to work with moving center focused people?"

Mr G. developed his "Sacred Gymnastics" - the Gurdjieffian Movements, and the De Hartmanns set music to them - it seems to me that this would be an obvious direction to pursue. I used to have some diagrams and some of the sheet music but that was lost to mold contamination in an awful house I lived in about 30 years ago.

Perhaps it is still possible to track these down...
 
I'm sure you can get onto the people who do the Movements through Claymont.
You'll be told you have to learn through a qualified teacher.
Trying to teach yourself would be futile, probably worse than futile.
 
Yes, teaching yourself the Movements is futile. One needs guidance, and the Claymont/Bennett school is probably the most accessible for this instruction. It takes a long time with a Foundation group to begin to be introduced to the Movements.

The best place to begin working with the moving center is with some ordinary physical activity in the course of the day. Simply attempt to be present to what you are doing physically. Pick a time when thoughts and feelings are not so strong. Enter into the sensation of what you are doing.

Work is not so much about self-study or self-analysis, although that comes in time as a result of what one is really striving for: presence. It is one thing to be alert to what you are doing, it is another when awareness enters into an act.
 
Getting back to food for the feeling centre, a couple of things occurred to me.
Animal companions, can be enormous sources of emotional currency. My dogs are awesome; I give thanks for them every day.
Human mates, more difficult, sometimes you are doing well to break even emotionally, but as a field for self-sacrifice, sans pareil, and just isolating sex, ( moving-centre people make magic lovers ); if you can't make emotional mileage here, you're pretty unlucky. ( missionary position only, please )
 
Joe Larsman said:
Yes, teaching yourself the Movements is futile. One needs guidance, and the Claymont/Bennett school is probably the most accessible for this instruction. It takes a long time with a Foundation group to begin to be introduced to the Movements.

The best place to begin working with the moving center is with some ordinary physical activity in the course of the day. Simply attempt to be present to what you are doing physically. Pick a time when thoughts and feelings are not so strong. Enter into the sensation of what you are doing.

Work is not so much about self-study or self-analysis, although that comes in time as a result of what one is really striving for: presence. It is one thing to be alert to what you are doing, it is another when awareness enters into an act.

This post stands out for me as a reminder of the Nepalese Thatrug dance Mark Hedsel described in The Zelator. Mark's teacher had pulled him out of the dance because it was determined to be not for him, so Mark was able to watch the others from a non-participant point of view.

As he watched the other dancers, Mark described what he saw and says this:

[quote author=The Zelator pg 100 on]
The faces of all the dancers were so transformed by inner light - illumined by the phos (light) mentioned in the ancient hermetic texts - that they each seemed very beautiful. These faces seemed stamped anew by Spirit. We were astonished that Spiritual effort could so transform the physical body that it could change its appearance beyond all recognition.
[/quote]

Mark prefaces his description with:

Even in a group, where one is expected to merge Ego and become as one with the others, the Spiritual activity of such an exercise drives the Ego deeply into the physical body.

Is that a good thing? In his footnote to that comment, he explains:

In the esoteric tradition, the depth of incarnation into the physical body is an important indicator of personality traits, and of how the higher bodies (such as the Etheric) can work into that physical.

He also adds that males generally incarnate more deeply and that this can account for some psychological differences between males and females, so there does seem to be a link here between what Mark is talking about, G's moving center and possibly Man 1.

What I'm mainly wondering about is the part about driving the Ego further into the body: is this Ego the same as the false personality and is this process a good thing? I'm also questioning my initial assumption that this may even be useful. This particular practice of the esoteric tradition may not relate very closely to the topic to hand, so I'd welcome feedback for the signal/noise learning value.
 
quote from Joe Larsman:

Yes, teaching yourself the Movements is futile. One needs guidance, and the Claymont/Bennett school is probably the most accessible for this instruction. It takes a long time with a Foundation group to begin to be introduced to the Movements.

I went to a seminar in the spring of 2010 in upstate New York with William Patrick Patterson. I found out when I arrived that the entire seminar was to be done in silence. Each day we did movements several times. We ate our meals silently, walked on the grounds silently, and of course did not communicate with anyone by cell phone or email.

Even after a very short time, the routine became predictible. Then, I think it was on the last full day, something different occurred. We had finished our exercises, and then instead of going up to our rooms, we were led onto the grounds and given an exercise that was totally unexpected.

The whole experience was magical for me. I remember my walk around the grounds and how intensely everything seemed alive and glowing. I will not tell you what the exercise was that evoked such a reaction in me; it was very simple actually, and yet I remember it and gain sustenance from it still.

This past fall, The Open Center offered a seminar which wasn't listed in the catalogue; I found out about it online. It seemed that most of the participants were from 4th Way schools. I had once been in such a school, but no one that I had known was there. The event featured Joseph Needleman and two other 4th Way Teachers. On the second day, we were taught some movements. Each was easy in itself, but very difficult, at least for me, when it was time to put them all together. The woman who led the exercise spoke after. I think she was referring to the moving center when she spoke, I believe metaphorically, that when she was a child she watched elephants being tamed by placing the wild one between two tame ones.

I remember especially something Joseph Needleman said: "The only way to love people is to is to listen to them."

I can't quite describe what is happening because it is so subtle and quiescent. I feel like a caterpillar going into a cocoon - I just want to be in the park and feel the wind and watch the leaves against the blue sky. I love that my dog walks quietly by my side, that there are people by the lake looking out for the safety of the ten swans that have made the lake their home, that quite a number of Canadian Geese survived last year's massacre when almost the entire flock was netted and gassed, and that these survivors have goslings of their own, almost grown and oblivious of the evil that befell their flock last year.

The world seems such a magical place to me when I am in the park, and I try to carry the essence of my experience within it inside of me when I have to leave. The world is terrifying both inside and outside the park, but not so much inside of me anymore. I can not tell you how tired I am of my own voice and of words, of my mechnical reactions and thoughts. I think something is changing in me, and I don't think that it's anything great or momentous. But it is enough, and I am grateful for it.
 
Webglider, that was a glorious post
Bud, the suffusion of the face comes when creative energy is present
In classic Gurdjargon, the personality is all false, all added on, the essence is real, starting with the body. It's what you are born with, and it is held that modern westerners fail to give it what it needs to develop.
Gurdjieff advocated somewhere, that when one spoke, one should speak roughly. You have a gift for this. I enjoy your posts. That fellow Mark, don't think he was saying anything any better than his dancing. Two left feet.
 
Thanks for your moving description, webglider. It brings back memories of receiving Buddhist teachings from the Karma Kagyu lamas. The Tibetans use the word equanimity to describe a state, even presence, that is neither thought nor feeling and that becomes a basis for love and compassion.

Recently I had my first real exposure to the Movements in Chicago. I had bits and pieces in the five years I've been in and out of a Foundation group here in the provinces (Midwest) but nothing like a weekend. It was rather moving, often predictable yet new to me. There were times I thought I would weep. That brought to mind Gurdjieff's description of conscience.

Something does grow in us from Work, doesn't it? And despite the subtlety of the change as you describe, this growth is important. It's as if another force, a third force begins to enter into one's life.
 
Well, having given it some thought for a few days I'm still uncertain as to what exactly to recommend as exercises, I'm no expert, so just some thoughts for what they may be worth.

I think the clues are there in the excerpts from G, it seems very much about developing awareness and control over the body, which is of course closely linked to self remembering. So we learn to take our awareness to the body, its movements, postures, habits, what 'it' likes and what 'it' does not like. Remember Gs imperative to "do what 'it' does not like!"

It should amaze us really what the body, the moving centre, can do on its own without our conscious input. Yet we never really marvel at, or are shocked by it. Take for example the action of driving a vehicle, once the skill is learned and has gone into the moving centre, it becomes fully automatic. We are not driving, simply sitting in a seat and traveling along, the moving centre takes care of everything else.

What should be shocking in this is realising that many many other things that we 'do' are just as automatic. The task at hand has gone into the moving centre and is carried out from there, if we haven't consciously chosen to do a thing, or at least how to do it, it is purely mechanical, we should be left in no doubt that we are indeed automatons. Yet this realisation seems to pass us by, as if it doesn't apply, that the way we move or are 'moved' in general is somehow different to the experience of driving. But how could it be so? Now we are driving, now walking, now making a cup of tea, now sitting, now standing up again, and off to make another cup of tea, and so it goes.

So perhaps there is something in aiming to control movements, or tackle tasks in a more conscious way. As G points out, do do things in a way to which we are not accustomed. And that can be anything from eating, to walking, do doing the dishes. The way we sit when we read a book, when we are in conversation, and so on. If we tend to eat quickly, then slow it down, if on the other hand we tend to be slow, then make efforts to be quicker. If we tend to sit with legs crossed in a certain pose when sitting try always to change to another position. Sit upright if you slouch. Control excess movements, fidgeting, automatic talk.

But wait! We do have some exercises for developing awareness of the body! We already have the warm up exercises for Éiriú Eolas. There is much more to be gained here than simply going through the motions, both in terms of growing awareness and in making the most of EE.

Take for example the first exercise of rotating the hands, how much attention can be brought to it?

  • How much of the body are you aware of?
  • Is the mind wandering?
  • Are you aware of your breathing?
  • Is is just the hands that rotate from the wrist or is the rest of the arm trying to join in and move around too?
  • Are you clenching you teeth?
  • Are the shoulders tense where they needn't be?
  • Same for tension in the back, the buttocks, the legs, knees,?
  • Are you aware of your feet making contact with the floor while you do the exercise?
  • Are you clenching your toes?
  • And now that your attention has gone all the way down to your toes have your shoulders tensed up again while you weren't looking?!

...and so on through all the other exercises. Be aware of the body, its impulses and habits and learn to relax. Relaxation is after all a large part of the programme, and the more attention one can bring to it, the more relaxed one can become. We should be developing that level of awareness to the body in our daily activities, if your constantly checking in with your moving centre, consciously monitoring it throughout the day it should become easier to get a handle of what it likes/doesn't like and how to gain better control over it. I think.
 
Thanks, Alada, tensions are a good start, aren't they? Feelings, more specifically buffers, are physically held in the body,
out away from the solar plexus. Simply noticing tensions brings the beginning of relaxation. There are quite artificial ways
to relax, such as taking drugs, that require no attention whatsoever. And there are more enhanced ways to relax such
as massage. Have you ever known someone who had an intense emotional release during massage? I do not know how
common that is, but it does occur.

Don't get me wrong, but I'm leery of much emphasis on control. Yes, self-discipline is part of life's struggles, yet control
can be illusory. Consciousness is far more variable than most care to admit. It is hardly stable, even among the evolved
at times. The automatism of driving might be a good example. Driving can indeed be quite automatic yet in a few milliseconds,
in the midst of an accident, time slows incredibly and one becomes quite conscious of one's reactions, as if watching. Perhaps
awareness is a better word for that brief moment.

Work is not unlike those kinds of moments in some ways. Mention self-observation and many think of self-analysis, that
I am like this or I am like that. There's a blindness in that, it is all done with thoughts and feelings. It can all be done without
any awareness. We are still, in large part, blind to ourselves. Then there are those rare moments when a part of me registers
my existence aside from thought and feeling. With impartiality. That's not so easy to cultivate. And obviously it's not a
good idea going around having car accidents to have a taste of that either.

These moments of awareness leave a wake in my inner life. In that wake, real change, not imagined. There's a Greek
word for that denotes it well: metanoia.
 
Joe Larsman said:
Thanks for your moving description, webglider. It brings back memories of receiving Buddhist teachings from the Karma Kagyu lamas. The Tibetans use the word equanimity to describe a state, even presence, that is neither thought nor feeling and that becomes a basis for love and compassion.

Recently I had my first real exposure to the Movements in Chicago. I had bits and pieces in the five years I've been in and out of a Foundation group here in the provinces (Midwest) but nothing like a weekend. It was rather moving, often predictable yet new to me. There were times I thought I would weep. That brought to mind Gurdjieff's description of conscience.

Something does grow in us from Work, doesn't it? And despite the subtlety of the change as you describe, this growth is important. It's as if another force, a third force begins to enter into one's life.

Yes, essence grows a presence in us when the power of attention establishes balance or harmony among the moving, feeling, and thinking centers of function. Would you say Buddhist’s equanimity is the presence of the Master in the Parable of the Carriage?
 
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