The Adaptive Unconscious

[SeekinTruth]

In a practical sense, after you see the lies your false personality creates, what can you do about it? I don't feel or experience any genuine, pure emotion towards anybody, or so I think. I somehow expected after realizing this DCM would hit me with pure emotions that can be replaced with old ones, but it seems this is not gonna happen. My ego, still thinks it is special after all these pain and suffering.

I think all we can do is to keep up the efforts of seeing ourselves as we are. When the last lie dies - the last, deeply rooted lie within us - perhaps the false personality will die as well, leaving an emptiness where, perhaps, something new might be able to grow. Perhaps - that's all we can hope for, I think. We shouldn't count on anything, but however it turns out in the end, truth is beautiful - even when it feels horrible - and worthwhile in itself, and the only genuine reason we have to keep going.

Appreciation for truth might well be the only real thing in us - and as such, it is our only hope.

Yeah, I think that's pretty much it. Small steps will have to continue to be taken. Nothing "big" is going to happen that involves skipping steps. That's the way I see it. None of us are out of the woods yet, and to GET out we need to keep taking steps in the right direction.

 

[Laura]

In a practical sense, after you see the lies your false personality creates, what can you do about it? I don't feel or experience any genuine, pure emotion towards anybody, or so I think. I somehow expected after realizing this DCM would hit me with pure emotions that can be replaced with old ones, but it seems this is not gonna happen. My ego, still thinks it is special after all these pain and suffering.

I think all we can do is to keep up the efforts of seeing ourselves as we are. When the last lie dies - the last, deeply rooted lie within us - perhaps the false personality will die as well, leaving an emptiness where, perhaps, something new might be able to grow. Perhaps - that's all we can hope for, I think. We shouldn't count on anything, but however it turns out in the end, truth is beautiful - even when it feels horrible - and worthwhile in itself, and the only genuine reason we have to keep going.

Appreciation for truth might well be the only real thing in us - and as such, it is our only hope.

Yup. And understanding the extraordinary value of a network and being ruthless with ourselves when necessary.

 

[Biomiast]

I think all we can do is to keep up the efforts of seeing ourselves as we are. When the last lie dies - the last, deeply rooted lie within us - perhaps the false personality will die as well, leaving an emptiness where, perhaps, something new might be able to grow. Perhaps - that's all we can hope for, I think. We shouldn't count on anything, but however it turns out in the end, truth is beautiful - even when it feels horrible - and worthwhile in itself, and the only genuine reason we have to keep going.

Appreciation for truth might well be the only real thing in us - and as such, it is our only hope.

Yup. And understanding the extraordinary value of a network and being ruthless with ourselves when necessary.

Yes, I can see that. But imagine you have a spouse you thought you love. It is not a toxic relationship, it depends on mutual respect, but you have realized you do not love her as she is, your unconscious made you think you were in love with her for its purposes. There are qualities in her that you can love objectively, that is if you can reach true love. But it may take a while.

So my question is what can you do from the point you realized you don't love her objectively, to the point you have attained true love? If you would say you love her, it will be a lie, if you say you don't she may not grasp or show understanding, and either party would get hurt. What would you do in that kind of situation?

 

[Windmill knight]

In a practical sense, after you see the lies your false personality creates, what can you do about it? I don't feel or experience any genuine, pure emotion towards anybody, or so I think. I somehow expected after realizing this DCM would hit me with pure emotions that can be replaced with old ones, but it seems this is not gonna happen. My ego, still thinks it is special after all these pain and suffering.

I think all we can do is to keep up the efforts of seeing ourselves as we are. When the last lie dies - the last, deeply rooted lie within us - perhaps the false personality will die as well, leaving an emptiness where, perhaps, something new might be able to grow. Perhaps - that's all we can hope for, I think. We shouldn't count on anything, but however it turns out in the end, truth is beautiful - even when it feels horrible - and worthwhile in itself, and the only genuine reason we have to keep going.

Appreciation for truth might well be the only real thing in us - and as such, it is our only hope.

Yup. And understanding the extraordinary value of a network and being ruthless with ourselves when necessary.

I'd like to add that letting lies die is essential but with many issues it is only part of the process. I used to think that in the Work, with every illusion that went away and every new 'aha!' moment there would be a catharsis and then a change in behavior and quality of being, as if by magic. Perhaps that happens sometimes, to some extent, and to some people more than others. But I think it is more often the case that getting rid of a lie opens the door to change, but does not guarantee it, as shocking as the experience may be. Rather, the actual change is like exercising muscles through discipline, which of course can only be done once we see ourselves objectively and are therefore motivated to change. That's why it is called the Work.

Yes, I can see that. But imagine you have a spouse you thought you love. It is not a toxic relationship, it depends on mutual respect, but you have realized you do not love her as she is, your unconscious made you think you were in love with her for its purposes. There are qualities in her that you can love objectively, that is if you can reach true love. But it may take a while.

So my question is what can you do from the point you realized you don't love her objectively, to the point you have attained true love? If you would say you love her, it will be a lie, if you say you don't she may not grasp or show understanding, and either party would get hurt. What would you do in that kind of situation?

I suppose it depends on the details of the situation and what both parties really want. In my opinion, if it is not a toxic relationship there is no hurry in making any big decisions. Also, even if you know it is not 'real love', I don't see anything to gain by telling the spouse if no decision has been taken. External consideration applies.

 

[Biomiast]

Hi WK,

This is my thinking as well. My specific point is, this is not one time decision. When you decide to stay, you interact with her everyday, talk with her everyday and you have to say you love her everyday. This is the hard part. When you say these things, when you look at her you would be reminded of your dishonesty every single day. I think staying is the correct decision, but how does one cope with the fact he is lying every single day?

 

[Laura]

I think staying is the correct decision, but how does one cope with the fact he is lying every single day?

External considering; sincerity with everyone is weakness. For all you know, you may fall back in love. You can also choose to love if there is sufficient ordinary compatibility.

 

[Eongar]

What is going to answer what I can gather from reading your comments, Biomast, if I'm wrong in interpretation is the language barrier.

He probably does not know he's lying. Nobody knows who is lying if we look at our behavior, thoughts, emotions, and so on. People, with its false personality, conditioned by a mechanical world, believed to be in possession of all his personality and that makes everything he wants to. And we're all in this state, as reported by WK, apply external considering. And an important question, you know what the objective love to judge what is it? Because even though you love so "different" may not be real love.

 

[Nević Nenad]

I think all we can do is to keep up the efforts of seeing ourselves as we are. When the last lie dies - the last, deeply rooted lie within us - perhaps the false personality will die as well, leaving an emptiness where, perhaps, something new might be able to grow. Perhaps - that's all we can hope for, I think. We shouldn't count on anything, but however it turns out in the end, truth is beautiful - even when it feels horrible - and worthwhile in itself, and the only genuine reason we have to keep going.

Appreciation for truth might well be the only real thing in us - and as such, it is our only hope.

Yup. And understanding the extraordinary value of a network and being ruthless with ourselves when necessary.

Yes, I can see that. But imagine you have a spouse you thought you love. It is not a toxic relationship, it depends on mutual respect, but you have realized you do not love her as she is, your unconscious made you think you were in love with her for its purposes. There are qualities in her that you can love objectively, that is if you can reach true love. But it may take a while.

So my question is what can you do from the point you realized you don't love her objectively, to the point you have attained true love? If you would say you love her, it will be a lie, if you say you don't she may not grasp or show understanding, and either party would get hurt. What would you do in that kind of situation?

Seems that you are in some sort of thought trouble with yourself. I cant know what exactly you mean by "love", but how you are describing it, it looks to me like you can buy it in a store "love in instant, just add water!". Maybe you can try to see that person not as a lover, but as a friend, companion, someone with whom you are traveling through the life, who is there to help you, and you are there to help her/him. There are big loves without sex and hormones, but with big mutual respect and help. If you two cant work in that way, you can always split apart, you are not for each other.

That's how I see it, and can be very far from truth :)

 

[cubbex]

In a practical sense, after you see the lies your false personality creates, what can you do about it? I don't feel or experience any genuine, pure emotion towards anybody, or so I think. I somehow expected after realizing this DCM would hit me with pure emotions that can be replaced with old ones, but it seems this is not gonna happen. My ego, still thinks it is special after all these pain and suffering.

I think all we can do is to keep up the efforts of seeing ourselves as we are. When the last lie dies - the last, deeply rooted lie within us - perhaps the false personality will die as well, leaving an emptiness where, perhaps, something new might be able to grow. Perhaps - that's all we can hope for, I think. We shouldn't count on anything, but however it turns out in the end, truth is beautiful - even when it feels horrible - and worthwhile in itself, and the only genuine reason we have to keep going.

Appreciation for truth might well be the only real thing in us - and as such, it is our only hope.

When I realized this I got a different meaning than the literal one. But talking about he false personality, when I realized it, I just thought that it was a waste of energy and time to lie to ourselves, so basically I just tried erase all illusions, assumptions and whateva fantasy I have about me. Without expecting a fantastic or genuine experiences. Actually living being honest and on truth makes you really happy, :) damn living by the truth you don't need to fill the expectations of society (a reason of why I think we create our false personalities), expectations based on the illusions of its own society.

 

[Laura]

In "Thinking, fast and slow" a bit more info is given about the dynamic between the conscious mind and the adaptive unconscious so ya'll move on to that one next. There you will find more clues about how "doing what it doesn't like" can be the means to growing the true self.

 

[Biomiast]

Thanks to all the responses.

To give more background, I am together with my girlfriend for two years and at the beginning I thought I love her, and Arbitrium, it was not based on hormones or sex either. We loved each other because of our companionship and friendship, we were friends for 2 years before we have started our relationship. We knew each other, we respected each other, we shared dreams of a common future with our interests.

The problem is, I came to realize my false personality doesn't see her as a person with needs and respects her decision. Our interest pretty much coincides, so this problem was never in large scale, but small things such as me not understanding why she was hurt because of my remarks or me making jokes that makes her angry.

What I see is, I don't care how she feels, my false personality makes all these things about It. For example, lets say she got angry because one of my actions, I don't understand or respect her decision, I just intellectually note that she got angry and I don't do it again. This is, my false personality wants to have a relationship without any arguments or fights so it pretends to understand her feelings and fake it. Or it sees her as an object to satisfy its needs like a future family and doesn't care about her feelings when her needs take a different path than what it expects it to be.

So, our dreams and ideals are still valuable for me, but my intent is not pure. I want to love her for who she is, not who I want her to be. But I am not entirely sure how to do it. Perhaps trying to love her aspects that my false personality dislikes helps, at least, this is what I understood from Laura's response.

 

[Laura]

So, our dreams and ideals are still valuable for me, but my intent is not pure. I want to love her for who she is, not who I want her to be. But I am not entirely sure how to do it. Perhaps trying to love her aspects that my false personality dislikes helps, at least, this is what I understood from Laura's response.

Well, it sounds to me like you have something to work with - especially in terms of work on the self!

One of the more evident soul characteristics is curiosity. It is also the foundation of all true science. So, perhaps you might become like a scientist of the soul and learn everything you can about not only yourself, but also your girlfriend. At least this way you would, at the end, be able to make an informed determination about what is what.

You could tell her that you want to know everything about her and you want to tell her everything about you (that is, your history, what you experienced, what you felt, what you did/chose, etc) This can be done via writing (which we know is useful in itself). This way, you would each know where the others "scars" and tender spots are. Also, when you hurt her feelings by saying something, it should be talked about, and you can find out WHY it hurts her feelings and make every effort to NOT do it again, to always consider her feelings. Even if you assess her reasons for being hurt as childish, it helps a person to get over childish emotions by someone else taking care about them.

Of course, this kind of "growing together" goes both ways, but if she is not interested in working on herself, you'll just have to take the burden alone.

 

[Buddy]

I SEE you.

I have also recently experienced a kind of visceral realization of the distinction between some Work ideas and the way the ideas are expressed by various people in varied contexts. With regard to 'being mechanical' or 'being biological machines', there is little reason to be sad about this. It just means we are thoroughly connected, on every level and scale, to Nature's ecology; and to our programming, we are naturally very responsive.

One can play different roles in the overall chain of interconnectedness - one could simply be food for higher density negative beings...

Have you ever met one?

For those wishing to join the second stream of life and enter the domain of the Law Of Exception, the realization of being mechanical is painful and that pain serves as the fuel required to seriously undertake 4th Way Work.

The realization of being 'mechanical' in the biological terms of which I was speaking (and I was using the logical 'inclusive OR', not the 'exclusive OR') is painful? Or the realization that one has been lied to all one's life and has lied to self about being a fully individuated, self-contained, isolated persona? To me, the pain is linked to the collapse of a fiction, not to my intimate associations to the universe around me. I thought it was more or less the same for others.

BTW, I am not sure if you saw Laura's post here .

Well, you could just ask, but rest assured I saw the post. I've already acknowledged previously, that, even though I don't know how, Laura seems to know exactly what I need to hear and in what measure. As a result of my superficial critique and her feedback, I saw that she did, indeed, know the material...and the info she provided therein persuaded me to order and study the book. I can generally tell when someone is right and they know they're right and don't need my confirmation necessarily.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't "back-talk" or "challenge what you say" for the fun of it. It's not fun. I just need to know that you know what you're talking about, as is also expected of me. Because if you can't do that, then I was probably right the first time. Who am I to say that? Is that self-importance or self-responsibility? Isn't wrong knowledge worse than no knowledge?

My apologies to WK for the presumption to address. I don't see it happening again in the foreseeable future. I think I've taken enough attention away from the discussions at hand.


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refs from above:
_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12559224?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15979751
_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20483659

 

[anart]

Have you ever met one?

How is that relevant? Certainly you're not implying that never meeting one means one doesn't exist?

For those wishing to join the second stream of life and enter the domain of the Law Of Exception, the realization of being mechanical is painful and that pain serves as the fuel required to seriously undertake 4th Way Work.

The realization of being 'mechanical' in the biological terms of which I was speaking (and I was using the logical 'inclusive OR', not the 'exclusive OR') is painful? Or the realization that one has been lied to all one's life and has lied to self about being a fully individuated, self-contained, isolated persona? To me, the pain is linked to the collapse of a fiction, not to my intimate associations to the universe around me. I thought it was more or less the same for others.

You're really legalistically nitpicking here, Bud. What is the difference between the realization that one is mechanical biologically and that one has been lied to, and lied, their whole life?


[quote author=Bud]

Have you had the chance to read any of the recently recommended books in this section of the forum - including the current topic? If you did then maybe you would see that the "they" you are referring to who have delusional states of mind may not necessarily exclude "you".

So far I've read "You are not so smart", but I don't follow you.[/quote]

That's because you need to do the reading. You also need to back off the self-righteous anger just a bit because it's not serving you well. Read 'Strangers to Ourselves' and 'Thinking Fast and Slow' before you attempt to discuss what you don't understand.

I think you don't even know who "they" refers to, or if you do, I'm not sure why you would attempt what seems to be a thinly veiled insult. Can you just come right out and say "Buddy, I think you're being delusional"?

If you had actually done the reading that has been repetitively suggested, you wouldn't have seen a veiled insult here and your self-importance wouldn't have written this post which is pretty much nothing but you going on the attack for zero reason.

Do the reading, Bud - or, if you're not interested in doing the reading, then don't try to discuss subjects you don't understand.

 

[Buddy]

OK, anart. Allow me a bit of time to catch up. Thanks.