The H & W Show: The medical and social implications of gender multiplicity

Odyssey

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#46
Gaby said:
I think that I speak for all the co-hosts when I say that this was a difficult subject, one that reveals several layers of societal pathology and where children are vulnerable. It was important to not censor our truthifying arguments.

I was personally deeply shocked to realize how bad the situation was when I prepared for this show. We did use emergency humor and we also spoke plainly and seriously about some of the arguments. I shared my notes about my clinical experience with transgenders due to congenital issues involving the endocrine pathways, pseudohermaphroditism and hermaphroditism. As we pointed out in the show, these cases are few across the board. We also spoke about xenoestrogens. What we are seeing is something that goes beyond that and this is what was covered in the show.

The quality of the show may have not been to the best standards of the listeners. Nevertheless, we said things that needed to be said. People need to be aware about this subject, as sensitive as it might be.
Agreed. Tiptoeing around subjects is not helpful. This comes across a topic that is more sensitive than others but is it really? OR are people just more sensitive to this topic because they are strongly identified with it in some way? Over-identification can lead to offense or being triggered like the precious snowflakes we discussed on our most recent show. Offering a critical analysis of this, or any other topic, is not an attack on anyone. But it certainly was a critique of all the societal hoopla surrounding this subject.
 

bjorn

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#47
[quote author= bjorn]People usually laugh about things outside of their normal experience. That doesn't mean that they mock others. They just find it bizarre that they have to laugh.[/quote]

Must be,

They just find it bizarre for them so that's why they find it funny.


Time was up to correct it ..
 

Woodsman

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#48
Well, the other options for reactions are outrage and despair.

-Being caught in the middle of a giant web of offenses perpetrated upon the whole Human race, we're not just slaves having our free will manipulated out from under us, but even our very biology is being robbed, all for dark purposes.

Laughing seems to me the only other reasonable response available.

To keep my cool when exploring reality, I often picture our world as it might be described by Douglas Adams, (of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy fame) if he were writing about the Human experience from some safely removed distance in both time and space.

A short paragraph on Human sexuality in the 21st century would neatly sum up in his offhand comic style everything ridiculous and ass-backward about today's situation in a way which would leave any sane person smiling.
 

beetlemaniac

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#49
MB said:
mkrnhr said:
Here is a short summary about the problem of Gender Dysphoria: _https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/gender-ideology-harms-children
You can't really, meaningfully, talk about "the" problem of Gender Dysphoria. There are as many different variations as there are people that experience it. I do see some good points in the summary, that would apply to some people.

My own situation is that my endocrine system was broken from birth, if not before, and I did not develop as a proper male or female. I assume the two are connected; I don't have positive proof. And part of what I had removed was cancerous, not healthy. Some transpeople are in that situation; most are probably not.

I could try to break things down further, but I don't really have time right now and I don't exactly see the point. It seems to me like many people don't have any idea what to do with themselves or their lives, and that this leads to an unimaginable variety of problems of all descriptions. I can see the historical trends that led to the present situation, and I have some notion of what the underlying causes might be. I think the task of understanding it - the big picture - is something that we each need to take on, personally, in a big way.
MB, if you would like to share a little bit more about your experience, I think that would give a better picture of what you are going through. If anything, it would give us a better understanding of these issues which are quite hidden and obscure as you mentioned. If you've posted elsewhere about this, my apologies, please redirect me to the appropriate thread.
 

Joe

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#51
T.C. said:
Camile Paglia on the topic: "Transgender Mania is a Symptom of West's Cultural Collapse"


https://youtu.be/4-i6YifXLNw

Very interesting, and accurate if we consider the state of modern society, that history shows that as a culture begins to decline you have an effloresence of transgender phenomena, that it is one symptom of cultural collapse"
 

bjorn

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#52
[quote author= Joe]Very interesting, and accurate if we consider the state of modern society, that history shows that as a culture begins to decline you have an effloresence of transgender phenomena, that it is one symptom of cultural collapse"[/quote]

For some being transgender fits. But it's certainly not for everyone I think.

Many different new genders are I think forthcomings from the 'cult of personality' in one of its most extreme forms. So what we are seeing is a rise in Over-identification. And Over-identification shows how toxic the Ego can be. It's being so overly obsessed with yourself in such a way that you're even having doubts about your gender and sexuality.

Whenever people experience Gender Dysphoria. Maybe it's a good idea that those people should first try out therapy-programs to figure out if they are instead not suffering from Over-Identification before deciding to undergo surgery. It can prevent a lot of pain.

Over-Identification is after all another synonym for suffering.

For example, this is what the C's had to say what happens with people who overidentify being gay, they suffer, and through this culture others suffers. Of course they where only talking about the overly perverse part. Not the entire ''movement'' But it shows what happens when you over identify with something. It has nothing more to offer than pain.


[quote author= Session 28 March 2010](Ailén) So the way that some homosexuals are overidentified with being gay, like gay bars and that stuff, that has to be just cultural then...?

A: The gay "movement" is a CIA program incepted by 4D STS designed to set up antipathy, differences, and to identify individuals for purposes of inflicting further suffering.[/quote]
 

adam7117

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#53
Thanks for your responses, Gaby and Bjorn - I appreciate them very much.

Indeed, this is a sensitive topic and I am carefully observing my own reactions here just to understand what makes me tick as a person. The programming through lifestyle and experiences which have shaped me into a person I am today. So it is sensitive to me.

The show attempted to separate the issues of sexuality and gender, which is fair. However, the "T" in LGBT stands for "Transgender" so the topics are intertwined in this part of society. All "letters" tend to socialise together, suffer in similar ways from discrimination, violence and prejudice - as well as give each other support based on those negative experiences. Hence, there is this imprinted sense of belonging together, albeit not necessarily in opposition to the more mainstream parts of society. And there are exceptions.

The "letters" hope for equal treatment and sameness, in a sense, although that is not necessarily possible. So when a perceived misdeed is acted upon a part of this group, you can be assured of a reaction - it is organic, almost automatic, if that makes sense. It is also a basis of my initial feelings about the show and I must work to ensure that it does not cloud my objective understanding.

Having said that - recently, a new "letter" has been born - "I" (Intersex). No sooner had this happened than more letters started popping out of the woodwork. Suddenly, we had "Q" and then "A". LGBT morphed into LGBTI, then LGBTQIA or is it LGBTIQ...? LGBTQ+, perhaps. Gads, it is doing my head in! What is it then - and do we need more letters?

So it is being co-opted, changed by unknown parties, right in front of our eyes. I get that.

Gaby, great references - cheers for listing them in this thread for transparency and clarity. I did not realise how many we had in the database and it is good to see. I have read a few of them already and they were followed by interesting input from the readers. You are a fantastic and knowledgeable professional, our group is truly blessed to have you onboard.

Bjorn, I appreciate your responses and thank you for acknowledging your own differences. That takes courage so good on you, man. And I get what you are saying.

I don't necessarily get everything that Camile Paglia is saying, on the other hand. Exactly, which prior cultures exhibited "an efflorescence of transgender phenomena" prior to their impending demise? Does she mean transvestites, as in cross-dressing, which has been around for ages? Was the Greek or Shakespearean theater an omen of impending doom? I just don't get it.

I also don't get how she is associating the "overt expression of homosexuality" with increased aggression by the IS. I'm not sure there is a strong causality there - maybe a slight correlation by association with the Western culture in general. Yes, there was a terrorist attack on the gay nightclub in Florida but some very fishy things happened that night so this argument is weird to me...

Actually, for a "radical lesbian feminist", she sounds more like a fundamentalist Christian to me. Interesting...
 

whitecoast

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#54
Oxajil]I think that unfortunately some people still hold that view. Yes said:
T.C. said:
Camile Paglia on the topic: "Transgender Mania is a Symptom of West's Cultural Collapse"


Very interesting, and accurate if we consider the state of modern society, that history shows that as a culture begins to decline you have an effloresence of transgender phenomena, that it is one symptom of cultural collapse"

A part of me wonders if this stereotype came in part from the Greeks and Macedonians, since they seemed to heavily caricature the orientals (under Persia's rule) as being quite effeminate, wearing makeup, having a practice of eunuchism, etc. Could this just be an ancient propaganda tool to post-hoc rationalize their conquest by Alexander the Great (i.e. that fact that easterners were "whimps?")
 

mb

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#55
bm said:
MB, if you would like to share a little bit more about your experience, I think that would give a better picture of what you are going through. If anything, it would give us a better understanding of these issues which are quite hidden and obscure as you mentioned. If you've posted elsewhere about this, my apologies, please redirect me to the appropriate thread.
I have enough material for a book, but no desire to write one. What I am going through is a learning process, like everyone here. I somehow happened to include male-to-female transition and autistic spectrum in my lessons. I have had three full-time jobs since I transitioned (I lost the one I had at the time) and now I am retired and considering various additional types of volunteer work, as well as paid consulting work.

The main issues I am dealing with now relate to being on the autistic spectrum, and living in a world that can drive me to despair if I think about it too much. My autistic quirks allow me to see more deeply into some of the things that go on. There is a "social veneer" that is almost transparent to me.

I don't do particularly well in the online world, unlike some other "spectrum" people. I need to be active in a face-to-face community, where I can run up against my limitations and find ways around them, and I am part of such a community now. I need to involve all my senses, and I need to do things that involve moving around and going outside.

The community is an inclusive liberal church, and I operate there within a strategic enclosure, and I am a visible part of the group of people that runs the church. That I am trans is obvious, and I have made no secret of my autistic spectrum traits either.

There is a lot I know that I can't talk about directly within this community, but I am constantly engaged in the exercise of meeting people where they are and sharing what I am able to share that they are receptive to. This is quite challenging for someone on the spectrum, but I am learning. I do better sometimes than others. As new things come up to do that "I just don't do and never have", I go ahead and do them. It doesn't feel good. But wow, it is quite a way to learn.

So I am about as atypical a transperson or person on the autistic spectrum as you will find. I do encounter others that are like that, though, and they are involved in outreach. There's something about it that works.

I think I may have more free time this week; I will continue checking in on this topic and I will comment if something stands out.
 

Keit

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#56
Perhaps it was mentioned before, but apparently there is an UK children show about a "transgender girl" that sounds very disturbing. :shock:

The BBC series aimed at children as young a six describe how Ben became Amy by taking hormones to halt puberty. It is yet another example of the agenda promoting the blurring of the genders. And they are now aiming children.[...]

CBBC’s series Just a Girl is the latest baffling attempt at normalizing, trivializing and even celebrating the completely unnecessary process that is childhood sex change. Freely available online on CBBC’s website, the series even teaches children about taking hormones and puberty-halting drugs. Do we truly know the effects of such drugs on one’s developing body and brain chemistry. Of course not. Why is this radical and aberrant process promoted to children?

 

Jenn

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#57
Thanks for posting that Keit, I had no idea that there was a show on kids TV on the topic, I came across this article from the Telegraph from October.

Julian Brazier, Tory MP, told the publication: “This programme is very disappointing and inappropriate. Children are very impressionable and this is going to confuse and worry them.”

Norman Wells, a family campaigner, said: “It is irresponsible of the BBC to introduce impressionable children as young as six to the idea that they can choose to be something other than their biological sex.”

Critics have said that promoting the idea of easy sex change surgeries and the use of drugs is only leaving children "utterly confused’"

Mr Wells told the Mail on Sunday: “The more we promote the idea that a boy can be born into a girl’s body and a girl can be born into a boy’s body, and that drugs and surgery can put things right, the more children will become utterly confused. Respecting and preserving a child’s birth sex should be seen as a child protection issue.”
[...]

A BBC spokesman said: “Just A Girl is about a fictional transgender character trying to make sense of the world, deal with bullying and work out how to keep her friends, which are universal themes that many children relate to, and which has had a positive response from our audience.
I have to agree with the criticisms made of this program. In the article one mother describes how her child anxiously questioned her own gender after watching the program, imagine if this is happening to every child that watches the show!
 
#58
Keit said:
Perhaps it was mentioned before, but apparently there is an UK children show about a "transgender girl" that sounds very disturbing. :shock:

The BBC series aimed at children as young a six describe how Ben became Amy by taking hormones to halt puberty. It is yet another example of the agenda promoting the blurring of the genders. And they are now aiming children.[...]

CBBC’s series Just a Girl is the latest baffling attempt at normalizing, trivializing and even celebrating the completely unnecessary process that is childhood sex change. Freely available online on CBBC’s website, the series even teaches children about taking hormones and puberty-halting drugs. Do we truly know the effects of such drugs on one’s developing body and brain chemistry. Of course not. Why is this radical and aberrant process promoted to children?

It is beyond disgusting! :jawdrop: Everything's all up to the parents, if they have any common sense at all nowadays.
 

mabar

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#59
Keit said:
Perhaps it was mentioned before, but apparently there is an UK children show about a "transgender girl" that sounds very disturbing. :shock:

The BBC series aimed at children as young a six describe how Ben became Amy by taking hormones to halt puberty. It is yet another example of the agenda promoting the blurring of the genders. And they are now aiming children.[...]

CBBC’s series Just a Girl is the latest baffling attempt at normalizing, trivializing and even celebrating the completely unnecessary process that is childhood sex change. Freely available online on CBBC’s website, the series even teaches children about taking hormones and puberty-halting drugs. Do we truly know the effects of such drugs on one’s developing body and brain chemistry. Of course not. Why is this radical and aberrant process promoted to children?

And now this :umm:

_http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/national-geographic-explores-gender-through-new-issue-documentary-n695966 said:
National Geographic Explores Gender Through New Issue, Documentary
by NOEL GUTIERREZ-MORFIN

In an effort to shed more light on a topic that has been at the center of social and political debates all year, National Geographic will be debuting a new magazine and accompanying documentary dedicated to examining gender around the world.

The January 2017 cover of National Geographic's issue on gender, which will also be examined in an accompanying broadcast documentary, "Gender Revolution, a Journey with Katie Couric," airing February 6th on National Geographic. National Geographic
"National Geographic is almost 130 years old, and we have been covering cultures, societies and social issues for all of those years. It struck us, listening to the national conversation, that gender was at the center of so many of these issues in the news," Susan Goldberg, editorial director of National Geographic Partners and editor in chief of National Geographic magazine, told NBC Out.

Avery Jackson, a nine-year-old girl from Missouri, graces the cover of the magazine, making her the first transgender person to be on the cover of National Geographic.

"We wanted to look at how traditional gender roles play out all over the world, but also look into gender as a spectrum. There's lots of coverage on celebrities, but there wasn't an understanding on real people and the issues we face every day in classrooms or workplaces in regards to gender."

The magazine issue, titled "Gender Revolution," covers a wide range of topics, from examinations of traditional gender roles and rituals of manhood or womanhood, to conversations with people who do not identify with these traditional roles. While putting together this January issue, National Geographic spoke with more than 100 children and teens around the world.


Alfia Ansari, Mumbai, India. "We won't get education in school, but boys will be educated, and therefore they can travel anywhere, but girls can't." Robin Hammond / National Geographic
"Youths are articulate and smart and key observers, and they don't have a social veil. They'll tell you what they think, and that is a true reflection of how societies really are. It's harder to get more candid responses out of adults. We wanted to understand how gender plays out in society, and what are the limits, or lack of limits, they think they have because of their gender," Goldberg said.

Goldberg told NBC Out there was a stark pattern of young girls, regardless of where they were located in the world, telling National Geographic that they felt they were not treated equally because they were female.

"It's heartbreaking that, almost in 2017, 9-year-old girls, no matter they live, already see their potentials limited."

Goldberg hopes that one of the things readers take away from the issue is a deeper understanding of the gender spectrum and those who do not identify with traditional gender binaries. As part of that hope, the issue begins with a glossary of a multitude of terms related to the subject of gender identity, including definitions for "genderfluid," "intersex" and "transgender."


The topic of transgender and gender-nonconforming individuals is further explored in an accompanying two-hour documentary hosted by Katie Couric, also titled "Gender Revolution". In the documentary, Couric speaks to the parents of trans kids, people undergoing gender-confirming surgery and individuals who are intersex.

"It's hard to avoid hearing about some aspect of gender these days. Every time you check your phone, turn on the TV or scan Twitter, there's another story that's challenging our preconceived notions of what gender is, how it's determined and the impact these new definitions are having on society," Couric said in a statement. "I set out on a journey to try to educate myself about a topic that young people are living with so effortlessly—and get to know the real people behind the headlines. Because the first step to inclusiveness and tolerance is understanding."

Surpreme Court will hear Virginia school case regarding transgender student
Gavin Grimm, who identifies as a transgender boy, is requesting to be allowed to use the boys' restroom at Gloucester High School. The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to hear his case. Jonathon Gruenke / TNS via Getty Images
The documentary also contains interviews with various activists, including Professor Kristina Olson, who is conducting a 20-year study of hundreds of young transgender and gender-nonconforming kids; Georgiann Davis, an activist for intersex individuals; and Gavin Grimm, who's involved in a Supreme Court case that could determine whether transgender people will be able to have equal bathroom access.

At the core of both the magazine and documentary, however, is a focus on everyday individuals, something Goldberg and other editors at National Geographic specifically sought to accomplish.


"What I really like about the story about people who identify on the gender spectrum is that it isn't about famous people. It's about regular people who are making this journey. I commend their bravery for letting us into their lives," Goldberg said.

The documentary "Gender Revolution" will premiere in February. Further information regarding National Geographic's "Gender Revolution" series will be available here starting January 3.
 

Attachments

Voyageur

The Living Force
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#60
mabar said:
And now this :umm:
_http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/national-geographic-explores-gender-through-new-issue-documentary-n695966 said:
National Geographic Explores Gender Through New Issue, Documentary
by NOEL GUTIERREZ-MORFIN
I guess it is not surprising with the Murdoch family now at the helm of The NG.

The documentary also contains interviews with various activists, including Professor Kristina Olson, who is conducting a 20-year study of hundreds of young transgender and gender-nonconforming kids; Georgiann Davis, an activist for intersex individuals; and Gavin Grimm, who's involved in a Supreme Court case that could determine whether transgender people will be able to have equal bathroom access.
Following this a little into the research aspect, there seems to be a large study that is under the above headed by Olson, and this lists a very large group assisting in doing this research https://depts.washington.edu/transyp/people/ , and some of this leads to other Children focus groups, such as the Gen­der Odyssey Family and Gen­der Diver­sity Edu­ca­tion and Sup­port Ser­vices. Within, you will find a system of the training teachers, doctors, and curiously (had not though about it), it is accompanied by a number of advertisements (quite slick advertisements) for plastic surgery. There is a video that has children in discussion with said group leaders (many are described as Trans leaders) who describe to the children how it was for them, and the children seem to be further enthralled.

Could not help seeing aspects of a social machine moving children; and one has to face the fact that parents do not no what to do when confronted by their own children's thinking (which may have been helped along by councilors) in these maters, in a type of prescribed direction. And the direction seems to be guided by a great deal of new employment in the field (which must include study funding).
 
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