Hi Shijing,
to matter of history I'll answer your previous questions. :)
Anyway, knowing some basic Magyar (like a 6 yr old unfortunately) I can view transliterated Sumerian texts & find similar sounding & meaning magyar words.
It is possible to do this with any two languages if your criteria are lax enough.
True, but that doesnt mean that my assertion is incorrect. English is my 1st language & i still dont see any similar sounding or meaning words. Yet in Hungarian many not only sound similar but re also pronounced the same way & also have the exact same definition. I am not a linguist so this is the best amateur logic i can provide, with my limited time to research.
I therefore ask if you know of any language with similar sounding AND same meaning words? If not then i suggest if an amateur like me can recognise the words then imagine what experts could do. I read that Tukish, etc has some similarities too even thoughit is debates as well. To accomplish that though i suggest knowing Magyar is a requirement (i know u said its not). The reason i say it is is simple: sumer has been transliterated via western mindset researchers (of Romance language background (roughly speaking)) hence many letters r pronounced differently in Magyar than in English, which distorts the strength of the Magyar-Sumer relationship (if it exists). To illustrate:
"Magyar" is pronounced in English like 'Mag'azine plus 'yar'd(as in back yard).
But hungarians pronounce it thus: Mojor (ie 'Mo'p + 'jo't + then roll the r.
Dad tells me that my pronunciation is woeful & when i listen carefully i am amazed at the nuances & the extreme difficulty of me mimicking them.
BTW, if i take off the nuanses then the pronunciation is very basic, almost primitive like (in my opinon), short root words maybe.
basically, A is pronounced as an O. When u start adding those funny characters on top of each letter that further regulates pronunciation.
Therefore i have seen many transliterated sumer words that are spelt similar to Magyar with the difference often being what i just described.
In short, the are actually pronounced the exact same way, but without understanding Magyar you would not know this & would think the words r close but not exact.
I'll find some that i recognise. It'll take time to assmeble them, so my apolgies.
I am cautious though about making assertions to experts such as yourself because i dont want to sound like an idiot or that i know better than an expert. I know full well that just because something seems obvious to me doesnt mean i am correct. I only want to draw your attention to my opinions to review them plus i want to make sure that you consider carefully logic rather than rely on your mainstream/academic background which may not have covered Magyar & my points. :)
evidence 1:
hmm, cant paste pictures....
ok, i'll paste:
Mr. Clayton’s article starts with the names of the following pharaohs of the 3rd. dynasty, the pictographic representation of their names and the dates of their rule. He also shows King Huni’s statue, which was made of rose granite and resides presently in the Brooklyn Museum in New York State. The names of these rulers and the years they reigned are as follows: Sechemchet 2649-2643 B.C., Chaba[1] 2643-2637 B.C. and Huni 2637-2613 B.C.
In the little table next to the hieroglyphic names, the author also brings their „Horus” (divine) names, which convey the meaning of the names: Sechemchet = Of Great Stature, Chaba = The Appearance of the Shine of the Spirit, and Huni = The Crusher.
The Hungarian equivalent of these names is the subject of another study. I will only mention that the first syllable of Sechemchet’s name is related to the Sicul (Székely) cultic Sz-K word group, like szik (life, seed lobe of a plant), Szikúr (Lord of Life), szikla (rock, cliff), szikár (wirey, tall person), szék (chair, and the seat of a place), zeg-zúg = zigg-zagg. The name of Chaba (Csaba in Hungarian spelling) means Comet according to Adorján Magyar’s explanation, so it may easily be connected with an „appearance of light”. Huni’s name corresponds to its Magyar meaning: a male being (kan), a wedge, a weapon. In Magyar mythology Magor represented the fecund qualities of the Sun, his twin brother Hunor represented the Sun’s destructive powers, which are also necessary to maintain life (like the destruction of germs). It is this meaning the non-Magyar speaking writer of this article also found in Huni’s name.
I'm trying to find the many sites that have the magyar/sumerian comparisons but they r alluding me atm.
The above (if accurate) at least shows what i described earlier.
Cs in magyar = Ch in english, & that Csaba is a common Hungarian name not found in any other language. Consider the likelihood chance causing this this example alone. If chance was present then this & other Sumer names would appear in other languages. My question then is do they? If not, then this alone is sufficient evidence of connection i would imagine unless of course technical reasons discount all examples. So far the only comments from western & European scientists is its just chance which is not a scientific answer at all, especially without any reasoning to back up their negative claim.
More magyar/Sumer names below...
Now consider:
http://www.magtudin.org/Homeland%208.htm
“Chambell, an English researcher, writes that in Upper Egypt, in the city of Karnak on the wall of one of the temples, it is written in hieroglyphs, that in the empire in the reign of the Pharaoh Tutmoses III, there lived a people called the Maghars who were fighting on the side of the Hittites. The hieroglyphic text mentions the cities of Arad, Árpád and Maghara in the land of the Maghars. (Arad is also the name of a Hungarian city which was given to Rumania in 1920 and Árpád the first Hungarian King.) The name Maghar is almost identical to the Sumerian name MAH-GAR and the Hungarian name Magyar. Since the signs of the Magyar runic script most closely resemble those of the Phoenician runic script and Hungarian city names appear in that region, it would indicate that the Magyars lived here at the time of the development of the runic script.”
Please note the words Maghar, MahGar, Arad, Arpad are not only Egyptian/Sumerian words but also Magyar words. This further adds compelling evidence of connection of some form or another. What else can the explanation be? Chance cannot keep conveniently be rearing its head. Add the runic script resemblance to Phoenician & anyone would be hard pressed to deny the links. The assumptions of course are that the names presented have been translated at least roughly correctly, but since that has been done by Westerns & mainstream science that is therefore not a possibility. ;)
What is being presented, & the plethora of evidences i have seen form many different fields of anthropology, archaeology etc etc all present a collective or solid foundation with which to build the case. If only 1 field found links then that would obviously reduce the likelihood significantly to the realm of chance.
But it is interesting that Hungarians can do that, & to some degree other agglutinative speaking peoples.
Since a very large portion of the world's languages are agglutinative, this probably doesn't mean very much.
True, but add this to all the other evidence & the pieces of the puzzle continues to assemble.
You need to also know the culture which is half the key. The language is emotional unlike English and German for instance. An English speaker wont therefore be able to understand that since they do not have a ready reference in English etc.
How do you quantify "emotional" in reference to language?
I class it as words that conveys 'feeling' not just provide terms for feelings. It hard to describe so its best left to the experts because i will have to think about this for a while.
A rough example i can come with for now is: édes anyám (sweet mother (my)) ie 'my sweet mother' conveys nothing but absolute affection, it cannot unlike in english be feelingless. The other variant is just "anyam" my mom, which is a less formal but same emotional character. Anyu = mother, 'am' = my but is not used onits own.
For the time being u may wish to review this qualified persons work which not only answer the above question but also delves into the prehistory of languages:
The Magyar language offers these too, like ó, meaning amazement, bú meaning sorrow. These I will discuss later. For now I will mention that the ó of amazement remained in mankind’s vocabulary as an exclamation of amazement, in Magyar it also became the word meaning ancient.
Organic Magyar Linguistics.
The Untenability Of Present Day Hungarian Linguistics
The author has lived in the U.S.A. since 1956. She was engaged in independent research concerning the Magyar language and ethnography. She audited Prof. Jacobsen’s Sumerian lectures at Harvard University. She utilized Adorján Magyar’s works and the immense material the libraries had to offer. She is founding editor of the bilingual Journal of Hungarian Studies. She lectured in several Magyar forums in the U.S.A: and her writings appeared in Magyar Publications in the U.S.A. and Hungary.
http://www.magtudin.org/Tomory%20Zsuzsa.htm
http://www.nordic-life.org/nmh/rovasEng.htm seems a good example of Magyar Runic writing comparisons.
You do not come across as being very neutral on this topic -- you seem to be rather identified with wanting to see Hungarian as "special" in some sense, in a similar way to the two people you mention above. Please note that, as I have mentioned earlier in this thread, Hungarian need not be considered either more important or less important than any other language or culture (lest you consider what I say here as evidence that I have a prejudice against Hungarians).
I agree to a point, but pls do not confuse enthusiasm for bias, the two show outwardly similar characteristics but r not the same. I have both however. ;)
I do identify with it because that is one of my languages. How do you expect me to avoid identifying with it?
I cant avoid it any more than you can, or anyone, so its no point raising this issue with me when everyone else 'identifies' as well. The fact remains everyone has conscious & unconscious bias in every single aspect of their life. Bias could be preferring pizza to carrots (as i do), but that doesnt mean i think carrots are a worse food than pizza, its just a preference/bias. I call it as i see it, what else can i do? Anyway, i am not intersted in claiming any 'superiority' of the magyar language. That means nothing to me even if it was somehow proven. It wont change my life in any way if it is proven. That is why i dont understand racists or extremists.
The fact remains & it cannot be disputed that Magyar is a very minor studied language in the West/Europe & elsewhere. That can have no positive effect, only negative.
I took a look at what you linked here, and while parts of it are interesting, the linguistic argumentation is very amateur. There may yet be interesting connections between Hungarian and other languages or cultures that have yet to be uncovered -- even Sumerian -- but in order to do so, the research will need to be much more rigorous than what Botos puts together.
I cant comment on how amateur it is, but i agree with you that more research needs to be done by the experts. That's all i am saying really. Trying to present enough evidence even if amateur to pique the interest of people such as yourself to figure it out for yourselves. My opinions may be right, but so what? It means nothing in the scheme of things. Academics must research research research.
Thanks for reviewing this Shijing & everyone. :)
