The Hungarian Language: One of the true wonder of the Earth since ancient times

[Rob]

Hi Shijing,

been busy preparing finances, researching our upcoming holiday & next investment property, etc etc....

/ / - [voiced] [post-alveolar] [fricative]

The velum is raised, blocking off the nasal cavity. The lips are mutually open. The blade of the tongue is raised towards the post-alveolar region, forming a narrowing. Pulmonic air passes through partially closed vocal folds, causing voice, into the oral cavity and through the narrowing formed at the point of articulation, causing friction. The air goes out of the body between mutually open lips.

Cs in magyar = Ch in english, & that Csaba is a common Hungarian name not found in any other language. Consider the likelihood chance causing this this example alone.


This example is problematic, because it looks like the author of this article was confused by orthography. What is transliterated here as Egyptian /ch/ is the velar fricative, whereas the Hungarian /cs/ is palato-alveolar [tʃ], so that what is actually being compared is [xaba] and [tʃaba], which doesn’t look nearly so good. (This also overlooks the point that this is Egyptian, not Sumerian, to which Egyptian has no linguistic affiliation).

hehe, your technical responses r over my head atm, but that is good.
I cant argue technically for obvious reasons, so i'll stick to logic & principles & approaches to problem solving which i am very successful in.

Do ALL languages have to abide by todays established rules pertaining to the past? Is it possible that some old languages operated or had their own logic/rules which have not been discovered or properly discovered & so will never equate to known rules? Or is that a technical impossibility? EG in Maths u can work out anything with almost 100% assurity of accuracy whereas analogue topics u cant. Some hungarians & asians say that westerners dont have the mindset (ie key) to unlock the true meanings. And if the language has deeper or multi-layered meanings depending on position, context, cultural understanding etc etc then the westerner or even modern hungarian for instance has little hope of uncovering the nuanses. EG, runes were used till recently in hungary/translylvania on sticks, hence due to limited space conveys many things in short space. Std language rules fall to pieces in this situation. what if sumerian operates in a similar vein? Maybe current rules apply on the surface strata, but do not pick up the other layers. Note that the runes r written top down, right to left as were ancient writings & asian etc. There r many individual coinciodence i have seen when added together forms a convincing case. ;)

This occured in Sth America where linguists could not transliterate the mayan (or whatever) language. A young US scientist came along who grew up with linguist parents & exposure several ancient cultures & so had a different mindset to approach the problem. He succeeded purely because he did NOT follow known language rules precisely. The hieroglyphs had many potential meaning depending on position etc.

R u saying above that the pronunciation &/or spelling of

[xaba] and [tʃaba],

is different? How different? like Bob vs Boat for eg? Even though its written in Egypt its no different to a Hungarian coming to Oz & having his name appear in the local newspaper in the Hungarian way. Hence no affiliation is required. Is my logic correct?

Is it possible that agglutinative researchers due to not knowing the cultural thought patterns of Agglutinative people have not & cannot properly transliterate (or whatever the term) agg languages? And visa versa? IE, i suggest that a builder cant apply his building knowledge to plaster cast a broken arm even though they do similar tasks of fixing a hole in a plaster wall, hmmm poor example. Both MD & builder will achieve some level of success working in the other's field but never 100%.

Using simple logic i would ask whether 2 words have the same meaning, & if so how close is their pronunciatoin or spelling. Pronunciation of the one original word will change over time & over cultures & countries. I can see why scientists want exact matches according to rules which is proper, but to establish an overall connection between 2 cultures doesnt need that level of exact evidence, i would assume because of so many possible reasons why words can mutate without following rules. Thus assembling evidence from multiple sciences should overcome the need to be absolutely exact in just one.

Therefore if u find many similarities between language 1 & language 2 then even though the rules may suggest questionable or zero connection i would ask how many similarities r there. If only a few dozen then i would give up unless no other language has any. But if other fields produce connections as well then the similarities suddenly become important again because of the weight of other evidence such as culture, genertics, etc etc. John Halloran said

It is sad that ethnologists, such as van le Coq, seem to be a thing of the past.

I suggested to him as well that any question of connection shoul dnot rely on one field alone otherwise the rules may be too strinigent (ie inadequate) to allow for the vagaries of the myriad affects on languages over time. I think Sumerian is far from dead, have simply mutated into Magyar, Turkic, etc etc. Just the latest genetic research has found Neanderthols did not die out but merged with modern humans. Up till recently scientists were sure there was no connection between the 2 species.

http://member.melbpc.org.au/~tmajlath/shb2.html

i understand many of the words in the above site.

I found a uni that had either egyptian or sumerian text about containers of grain as well as tallies of farms produce, which i understood about half (?) of the words. Have lost that link unfortunatley. :( But i'll keep looking.

Anyway, IF there is a strong or real connection between Sumerian & Magyar/Turkic, etc which is not as yet acknowledged in mainstream science i wonder what will change that. Will the west ever devote resources to look into that?0 What will it take to make this happen to resolve this properly once & for all? :)

 

[shijing]

Do ALL languages have to abide by todays established rules pertaining to the past? Is it possible that some old languages operated or had their own logic/rules which have not been discovered or properly discovered & so will never equate to known rules? Or is that a technical impossibility?

If you are talking about the rules of spoken language, then there is no reason that I can see that extinct languages didn't operate in the same way as current living languages. As far as we know, all people (barring learning impairments), of whatever background, have the same innate capacity to learn any language. If you are talking about writing systems, then there is room for true variation there, but as a matter of expression, not as a matter of representing radical differences in underlying content of language itself.

This occured in Sth America where linguists could not transliterate the mayan (or whatever) language. A young US scientist came along who grew up with linguist parents & exposure several ancient cultures & so had a different mindset to approach the problem. He succeeded purely because he did NOT follow known language rules precisely. The hieroglyphs had many potential meaning depending on position etc.

That may be true, but the problem was difficult because of the writing system, not because of the language which it represented.

R u saying above that the pronunciation &/or spelling of

[xaba] and [tʃaba],

is different? How different? like Bob vs Boat for eg? Even though its written in Egypt its no different to a Hungarian coming to Oz & having his name appear in the local newspaper in the Hungarian way. Hence no affiliation is required. Is my logic correct?

As far as I understand, yes. The problem isn't that the two words appear in different locations, the problem is that they have different pronunciations (the example you give of "Bob" and "boat" is a fairly good illustration, actually). The only way around this would be to show more than one instance of Egyptian x corresponding to Hungarian tʃ -- this would establish a regular correspondence which would strengthen the case for a relationship.

Is it possible that agglutinative researchers due to not knowing the cultural thought patterns of Agglutinative people have not & cannot properly transliterate (or whatever the term) agg languages? And visa versa? IE, i suggest that a builder cant apply his building knowledge to plaster cast a broken arm even though they do similar tasks of fixing a hole in a plaster wall, hmmm poor example. Both MD & builder will achieve some level of success working in the other's field but never 100%.

For the parameter of "agglutinative", this is not a problem -- there are many agglutinative languages spoken throughout the world, and translation isn't a problem for them any more than for any other kind of language.

Using simple logic i would ask whether 2 words have the same meaning, & if so how close is their pronunciatoin or spelling. Pronunciation of the one original word will change over time & over cultures & countries.

This is very true, and that's why in looking for a relationship, you need to find recurrent sound correspondences; this doesn't mean that [p] will always correspond to [p] in both languages -- [p] may always correspond with [f] (as is the case when comparing Latin with English). For example, take a look at the following:

Foot Latin: pedis, English: foot

Father Latin: pater, English: father

Fish Latin: piscis, English: fish

Do you see how the [p] of Latin always corresponds to the [f] of English? This is the kind of comparison that would need to be made between Sumerian and Hungarian to validate a relationship. I should note that there are cases where words in two languages will show a relationship without exhibiting regular correspondences, but when this happens, it usually means that it was a contact relationship, not a genetic one.

Therefore if u find many similarities between language 1 & language 2 then even though the rules may suggest questionable or zero connection i would ask how many similarities r there. If only a few dozen then i would give up unless no other language has any. But if other fields produce connections as well then the similarities suddenly become important again because of the weight of other evidence such as culture, genertics, etc etc.

I agree -- but as I've mentioned above, I just haven't seen this evidence specifically for Sumerian and Hungarian. It could exist, but I haven't seen it, that's all.

I think Sumerian is far from dead, have simply mutated into Magyar, Turkic, etc etc. Just the latest genetic research has found Neanderthols did not die out but merged with modern humans. Up till recently scientists were sure there was no connection between the 2 species.

You should do a search on "Neanderthal" here on the forum (please do so -- you will find it quite interesting!).

http://member.melbpc.org.au/~tmajlath/shb2.html

i understand many of the words in the above site.

In what way? Also notice that it says at the top, "These lists contain 'SIMILARITIES' not alleged Basque-Hungarian cognates!"

Anyway, IF there is a strong or real connection between Sumerian & Magyar/Turkic, etc which is not as yet acknowledged in mainstream science i wonder what will change that. Will the west ever devote resources to look into that?0 What will it take to make this happen to resolve this properly once & for all? :)

Well, resources are a problem, there is no disputing that. But what will really make the difference is establishing those regular correspondences, as I've shown above with the example of Latin and English. The field of historical linguistics is actually a microcosm of reality -- you have people who are too open-minded, as well as those who are too close-minded, and a small group of people who fall in the middle who will end up doing the important work of the future. And things are not always bleak -- there are occasionally very old language relationships that are eventually demonstrated to everyone's satisfaction. Here is a good example of a case which was scorned by critics for years, but was eventually proven through a lot of hard work:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=14249.0

 

[Rob]

Your replies are quite Interesting Shijing. :)

Foot Latin: pedis, English: foot

Father Latin: pater, English: father

Fish Latin: piscis, English: fish

Do you see how the [p] of Latin always corresponds to the [f] of English? This is the kind of comparison that would need to be made between Sumerian and Hungarian to validate a relationship. I should note that there are cases where words in two languages will show a relationship without exhibiting regular correspondences, but when this happens, it usually means that it was a contact relationship, not a genetic one.

this is very interesting since i find as an english & hungarian speaker that the above comparisons are far more diverse from each other than the sumerian/hungarian ones illustrated in the web sites, i presume therefore i am missing some logic. Eg, piscies does not sound or spell anything like fish even though it means fish, yet magyar/sumer words sound & spell very similar (assuming correct transliteration). Same with Pedis & foot. Nothing alike that an ordinary person can see.

Below is a similar example (i think) to your example. yes?

Uralic

nyer to win; gain; profit, get /Hungarian

Sumerian

uru16 (-n) valiant; strong, mighty; clever [jh]

i do not see any resemblance between the magyar & sumerian words above. unless you do what was done in your example.

yet i do see the resemblence to etruscan:

Etruscan

arus ame to encourage; arusia exhortation, push [az96]

erő- force, power, strength; erő-s strong; erő-szak-os aggressive /Hungarian
erős-ít fortify, steel, to strengthen; erő-feszítés a push /Hungarian

Note that 'e' in magyar means 'a' in english.

The following example i can only understand after reading the explanations.

Uralic

es, oz intelligence, cleverness /Ugrian

oˆš ability, memory, understanding (Northern Khanty); vezˆer reason, understanding (Komi); uus intellectual ability, memory, understanding (Man's'i); vazˆov sensible, wise (Mordvin - derivative) [Chong]

Sumerian

zi (n.) breathing; breath (of life); throat; soul [jh]

zu, sú: (n.) wisdom, knowledge; (v.) to know; to understand; to inform, teach (in marû reduplicated form); to learn from someone (with -da-); to recognize someone (with -da-); to be experienced, qualified. [jh]

uš4 intelligence; gaššu intelligent [jh]
gašam craftsman, artisan; skilled person; job, work; office holder; wisdom [jh]

I only know the word 'halgas' (pronounced "holgosh") 'be quiet'; hal (to hear) also means fish

hes! quiet, listen! {/s/ similar to English /sh/}/Hungarian

Sumerian

ğeštug (2,3), ğeštu (2,3) n., ear(s); hearing; understanding, intelligence v., to hear; to understand [jh]

Hurrian-Urartian

haš-ia- give ear to [ryan]
haš-u- hear, obey, listen [ryan]

*x|as- "hear" /Proto Hurrian-Urartian [ss]

x|az^- /Hurrian [ss]
x|as^- /Urartian [ss]

easy examples for me to understand:

baba (C) bean /Basque

Uralic

bab bean(s) /Hungarian

Sumerian

ubub bean

fa wood; fás wooded {p>f,b} /Hungarian

bozót thicket /Hungarian

Sumerian

pa leaf, bud, sprout; branch; wing; feather [jh]

forró {p>f} hot /Hungarian
pir-ít fries, fry /Hungarian

Uralic

*peje to cook /Uralic

Root of Hungarian adjective forró is forr- "to boil, bubble"

Sumerian

bír dry up, shrivel up, misty; bir9 blaze up, flame up; bil to roast, to burn

mel-eg heat, warmth; hot /Hungarian

Uralic

*mäle- warm, to warm /Ugrian, Vogul maltip, mali; Ostjak melek

Sumerian

mèl scorching; bilgin fire god {m>b}
mul star; constellation.planet, to sparkle

barka-réteg 'the upper layer of the skin or hide which becomes visible after separation of the fur from the hide after processing' /Hungarian

barka-hasíték 'skiver' /Hungarian

Has two meanings :- (a) a paring-tool for leather; (b) a thin leather split from a sheepskin, used for book-binding.

barka-sajtolás 'embossing'; préselt barka 'embossed grain (on leather)' /Hungarian

(Thanks to those two kind Magyar souls who brought them to my attention.)

Sumerian

bar n., (out)side; soul, innards; fleece [jh]

this one is my thought:

Classical Greek [lsj1]

elass-oô make less or smaller, diminish, reduce in amount 2. in early writers, lower, degrade

eleso (H) = fall you will (sound like Yoda do I.. hmm Yoda's language must have been agglutinative ;)
seems like a similar meaning whereby falling down makes you smaller or lower...

is this how u make a connection Shijing?


more easy to understand examples:

hül cool, get cool /Hungarian

Uralic

Expert source says Hungarian hül derives from hűvös "cool". [Chong]

Sumerian

hal-ba frost,freezing

anyway i undersatnd most of the word comparisons from: http://member.melbpc.org.au/~tmajlath/shb1.html

what i want to do next is find whole transliterated phrases to see if i can read them without help.

cheers :)

 

[Rob]

Hi Shijing,

This occurred in Sth America where linguists could not transliterate the mayan (or whatever) language. A young US scientist came along who grew up with linguist parents & exposure several ancient cultures & so had a different mindset to approach the problem. He succeeded purely because he did NOT follow known language rules precisely. The hieroglyphs had many potential meaning depending on position etc.


That may be true, but the problem was difficult because of the writing system, not because of the language which it represented.

That was my point, that the hieroglyphs & later texts may not be translated entirely properly, especially if they still aren't sure how words were pronounced. In fact i would suggest that if u dont know how they pronounce their words then how can u even assign appropriate Latin characters to Sumerian interpreted words? And if they did speak like Yoda then i would use a Yoda like living language from which to try cracking the language.

The only way around this would be to show more than one instance of Egyptian x corresponding to Hungarian tʃ -- this would establish a regular correspondence which would strengthen the case for a relationship.

hmmm, if the Egyptians simply used a foreiners name without altering it to Egyptian format then u wont find many more such examples. hmm, similar to if queen Elizabeth went to Eqypt & they spelt her name the english way not the eqyptian way... but names r hard ones IMO to determine properly since they dont mean anything.

ok, time to find non-linguistic evidence as well..

ciao :)

 

[Rob]

Hi All,

This is a nearly constant, universal feature of man's psyche. Identification takes place when some external item catches one's attention and one forgets all else. Identification is the mechanism which makes man a machine reacting to any environmental stimulus that may match his arbitrary fancy.

The 4th Way Work seeks to oppose man's automatic and routine tendency to identify with the practice of self-remembering. It is noteworthy that man loses any semblance of self-consciousness, forgets himself, when in a state of identification.

One can be identified with anything: A thought, an emotion, one's vacation plans, any social activity, the more emotionally involving, the greater the likelihood and extent of identification and self-forgetting will be.

An additional problem is that people often think that good work can only be produced in a state of identification. One 'must give the work of art/science/social situation one's all, be passionate,' and so forth, it is said. As the 4th Way sees it, all these perceived qualities of enthusiasm, spontaneity, passion are overwhelmingly mechanical and strip one of the little free will or being one might otherwise possess.

Good work requires being present in the situation, but one cannot be present in any real sense if one is identified, mechanically pursuing some program or other which the situation happens to have invoked. Presence in a real sense is not possible without 'being' and 'being' is not possible if one is purely reacting and lacks internal cohesion.

The terms fascination and confluence are used to indicate a specially strong state of identification.

I understand (i think) what this is on about, being essntially the aim of being unbiased.

However, the above concept definition is very black n white, & people r not digital entities, they are analogue.

Hence i disagree about the degree of what is stated above though i agree with its principle.

I disagree that:

man loses any semblance of self-consciousness, forgets himself, when in a state of identification.

. I disagree completely here. 'Any semblance'?? Is that even possible to be 100% one way or another? i dont think so.
IMO its a matter of degree but never 0% or 100% or even close.
I constantly montior my thoughts & feelings (without effort nowadays) in order to control or avoid emotional responses.
Even on the rare occasion that i am genuinely furious (which has been 3 or 4 times in my entire life thus far) i monitored my status & decided on 1 occasion to leaved the room b4 it turned violent.
IMO it is impossible to avoid emotion, or bvias, or identification.
Is it saying that if you have a degree in linguistics then u have a bias or identification to linguistics? I think it is saying that. Education is bias, it is an opinion, it is not a fact no matter how proven the facts are.

I seek experience or education because it allows me to better identify with what i want to 'fix'.
i dont see the issue with that as long as u keep things in perspective & dont allow ego to inflate in line with each qualification.
Education, experience, etc provides advantages that not having them dont have.

However, the reverse is also true in that u loose some open minded-ness as well because u have learnt what others have taught u. And that is an automatic bias/perspective.

Again though its all about perspective IMO not about the impossible goal of unidentification. Humans cannot be robots unless the mind is altered or literally rewired.

I for example, enjoy learning form others as much as possible, but i always make up my own mind on things. And i keep in mind that each fact i learn is only 1 perspective which may be correct (math), incorrect (maths), or somewhere in between (analogue). And that its unlikely i will ever know how right i am with any knowledge i have in my head till the big guy upstairs sits me down & takes infinity to explain how right i was waith every large or tiny bit of knoweledge i had.

One can be identified with anything: A thought, an emotion, one's vacation plans, any social activity, the more emotionally involving, the greater the likelihood and extent of identification and self-forgetting will be.

I agree comp[letely here becaause its not an absolute statement unlike above.

An additional problem is that people often think that good work can only be produced in a state of identification. One 'must give the work of art/science/social situation one's all, be passionate,' and so forth, it is said. As the 4th Way sees it, all these perceived qualities of enthusiasm, spontaneity, passion are overwhelmingly mechanical and strip one of the little free will or being one might otherwise possess.

hmm... again passion is a motivator which can help but one must be careful not to allow teh passion to 'encroach' on teh actual topic of research. Passion etc is NOT the problem, its people misusing passion. Passion should be an 'energiser' but that is all. Logical unbiased thinking must ride on the wave of passion.

IMO passion + calm logic (or unidentification) when used properly are more powerful than either alone.

Good work requires being present in the situation, but one cannot be present in any real sense if one is identified, mechanically pursuing some program or other which the situation happens to have invoked. Presence in a real sense is not possible without 'being' and 'being' is not possible if one is purely reacting and lacks internal cohesion.

This seems to correspond to my passion + logic belief. To be more specific, i allow identification to gain 'insight' or an 'insiders view' plus use passion to make me bother spend the time on it but then I use my calm & dogged desire for TRUTH ensure that passion etc does not colour or influence my thought processes negatively to produce an incorrect result.

I want th ebest possible outcome & i know that cannot be achieved with biased thinking.

But I also think that it is IMPOSSIBLE to detach from that which is outside of your mind, ie the environment around you & the feedback your body is constantly biologically & maybe energetically interacting with as well..

cheers :)

 

[shijing]

I understand (i think) what this is on about, being essntially the aim of being unbiased.

However, the above concept definition is very black n white, & people r not digital entities, they are analogue.

Hence i disagree about the degree of what is stated above though i agree with its principle.

I disagree that:

man loses any semblance of self-consciousness, forgets himself, when in a state of identification.

. I disagree completely here. 'Any semblance'?? Is that even possible to be 100% one way or another? i dont think so.
IMO its a matter of degree but never 0% or 100% or even close.

While it is true that it can be difficult to become 100% unidentified, it is possible, and when we are involved in the Work, that is the goal. We may never reach it in our lifetime, but if we are sincere, we will do our best. It is, however, probably impossible to do this on your own without being part of a network, and allowing other members of that network to show you your blind spots where you don’t see your own identification.

I constantly montior my thoughts & feelings (without effort nowadays) in order to control or avoid emotional responses.
Even on the rare occasion that i am genuinely furious (which has been 3 or 4 times in my entire life thus far) i monitored my status & decided on 1 occasion to leaved the room b4 it turned violent.

This is a very overt example. The most insidious of emotional responses are those which occur under our radar – the ones that we don’t even know occur, but that someone else may be able to help us see once they point them out.

IMO it is impossible to avoid emotion, or bvias, or identification.
Is it saying that if you have a degree in linguistics then u have a bias or identification to linguistics? I think it is saying that. Education is bias, it is an opinion, it is not a fact no matter how proven the facts are.

“Education” is rife with bias, and it is a huge problem with the modern educational system. However, true learning can be done without bias. So in one way you are correct, but at the same time I think that facts, if proven, count objectively.

i dont see the issue with that as long as u keep things in perspective & dont allow ego to inflate in line with each qualification.
Education, experience, etc provides advantages that not having them dont have.

However, the reverse is also true in that u loose some open minded-ness as well because u have learnt what others have taught u. And that is an automatic bias/perspective.

This is where discernment is critical – one should never accept teaching uncritically, without weighing what is taught against observed reality.

Again though its all about perspective IMO not about the impossible goal of unidentification. Humans cannot be robots unless the mind is altered or literally rewired.

Being unidentified is actually the complete opposite of being a robot. Identification is mechanical – and therefore equal to slavery – and it is therefore the identified person who is the most like an automaton, for he is not in control of his own thoughts, actions, or choices. That being said, you are correct in saying that this reality cannot change unless the mind is literally rewired, which is what the Work is all about – and the rewiring requires much conscious suffering.

I for example, enjoy learning form others as much as possible, but i always make up my own mind on things. And i keep in mind that each fact i learn is only 1 perspective which may be correct (math), incorrect (maths), or somewhere in between (analogue). And that its unlikely i will ever know how right i am with any knowledge i have in my head till the big guy upstairs sits me down & takes infinity to explain how right i was waith every large or tiny bit of knoweledge i had.

It is possible to make an amazing amount of progress when part of a network. All that is required is that you continue to compare your knowledge with objective reality and allow others to help you with doing so. It is a feedback loop that is always moving toward objective truth, as long as we are honest with ourselves and not afraid to put our sacred cows out to pasture once we identify them – and we will, over and over again.

One can be identified with anything: A thought, an emotion, one's vacation plans, any social activity, the more emotionally involving, the greater the likelihood and extent of identification and self-forgetting will be.

I agree comp[letely here becaause its not an absolute statement unlike above.

An additional problem is that people often think that good work can only be produced in a state of identification. One 'must give the work of art/science/social situation one's all, be passionate,' and so forth, it is said. As the 4th Way sees it, all these perceived qualities of enthusiasm, spontaneity, passion are overwhelmingly mechanical and strip one of the little free will or being one might otherwise possess.

hmm... again passion is a motivator which can help but one must be careful not to allow teh passion to 'encroach' on teh actual topic of research. Passion etc is NOT the problem, its people misusing passion. Passion should be an 'energiser' but that is all. Logical unbiased thinking must ride on the wave of passion.

IMO passion + calm logic (or unidentification) when used properly are more powerful than either alone.

Good work requires being present in the situation, but one cannot be present in any real sense if one is identified, mechanically pursuing some program or other which the situation happens to have invoked. Presence in a real sense is not possible without 'being' and 'being' is not possible if one is purely reacting and lacks internal cohesion.

This seems to correspond to my passion + logic belief. To be more specific, i allow identification to gain 'insight' or an 'insiders view' plus use passion to make me bother spend the time on it but then I use my calm & dogged desire for TRUTH ensure that passion etc does not colour or influence my thought processes negatively to produce an incorrect result.

The question is whether or not we can ever identify when that passion is causing a bias. The point here is that, generally, we cannot, and therefore run the risk of allowing this passion to eclipse objective observation. If you think that you can control your identification and bend it to your own will, then you are fooling yourself, because as long as it exists, it will control you – to think otherwise is hubris.

I want th ebest possible outcome & i know that cannot be achieved with biased thinking.

True.

But I also think that it is IMPOSSIBLE to detach from that which is outside of your mind, ie the environment around you & the feedback your body is constantly biologically & maybe energetically interacting with as well..

You cannot detach yourself from physical reality (and indeed it would be detrimental to your learning to do so – this is the way of the Monk), but you can work very hard at detaching your awareness until you are able to observe all of that feedback objectively. It takes much effort, much will, and in the process your old self/selves will disintegrate so that a new self can be re-integrated with a single will. But the outcome is worth everything you put into it.

I am not going to address the language questions you posted above for now, because I think we should put that on hold for now until you have a chance to process the material that is necessary to really participate here. I recommend that you read both the Wave series and Adventures with Cassiopaea, as these are central to the purpose of the forum. This will take awhile, but it is well worth doing.

After doing so, you can continue to pursue your questions about Hungarian and Sumerian if you’d like, although if you are only interested in the linguistic affiliation detached from the larger context of the forum, then it may be appropriate to pursue your (legitimate) questions on another forum that is devoted to such things. One thing I want to point out is that it is often considered prestigious to have a link with Sumer because of the fact that they developed “the first civilization” from the point of view of mainstream history. However, we understand that the development of this civilization has a very dark undertone – it was directed by forces which did not have the best interests of the Sumerians (or any other humans) at heart, and the Sumerians were very likely the slaves of these forces – period. Not a very positive heritage, in other words.

 

[Rob]

Hi Shijing,

Being unidentified is actually the complete opposite of being a robot. Identification is mechanical

By robot i meant the ability of mechanical or digital systems to 100% control themselves based on internal programming (software), to switch on & off, & to think in 1s & 0's which humans cant.
Humans/animals also have software (genetic coding) however i would be interested & surprised to see if there is any method (eg 4th way) to be able to actually identify, & then access, & then control the millions of different little subprocesses that our body & mind is continually running in the background.

IE, our body is continually probing our environment & our instincts are always in the background influencing how we interpret & react to the stimuli, hence why i think we cant disassociate ourselves from anything.

I'll review the Wave & Advantures material & see where it takes me. Maybe incorporate it into my mediation & training (which i have let go of late).

Thats ok about the linguistics thing, im sure all dead & alive languages & peoples/cultures r related because we r all just 1 race (cousins). im a very curious person is all & am attracted to solving things..

all the best.
Rob ;)

PS i found that Previewing saves the typing which u cant delete except by the unlikely sequence of accidentally previewing a blankout out screen. ;D

 

[shijing]

I'll review the Wave & Advantures material & see where it takes me. Maybe incorporate it into my mediation & training (which i have let go of late).

Thats ok about the linguistics thing, im sure all dead & alive languages & peoples/cultures r related because we r all just 1 race (cousins). im a very curious person is all & am attracted to solving things..

So am I, and I understand that. Note that I am not suggesting dropping the question permanently, just putting it on hold for now while you get caught up with the other reading material that I recommended. It will take awhile to get through, but this thread will still be here when you are done -- you might take the time to browse through other areas of the forum as well, because there are many, many topics to satisfy the curious mind :)

 

[Rob]

Hi Shijing,

i have something that seems to correlate in some ways to the 'waves' i have been reading about.

have a look at the following site much of which is by Dan Winters, the applicable bits are half to 3/4 down & involve aliens, DNA, the past/ future, etc etc.

I am no expert so i cant vouch for any technical aspects of it.

_http://www.goldenmean.info/dragonscriptdna/

Here is an exceprt:
Russian Human Genome Project discovers Extraterrestrial abilities to modify DNA through a "biological internet"

by Mary Rodwell [Excerpted]

Some recent Russian DNA discoveries documented by Grazyna Fosar and Franz Bludorf in their book Vernetzte Intelligenz have been summarised by Baerbel. 'The human DNA is a biological Internet' with evidence that DNA can be 'influenced and reprogrammed by words and frequencies.' This suggests that 'our DNA is not only responsible for the construction of our body, but also serves as data storage and communication.' The Russian scientists and linguists have found that the genetic code 'follows the same rules as all our human languages.' In effect, human language did not appear coincidentally but is a reflection of our DNA.

The Russian researchers believe that 'Living chromosomes function just like a holographic computer using endogenous DNA laser radiation. This means that they managed to modulate certain frequency patterns (sound) onto a laser-like ray which influence DNA frequency and thus the genetic information itself. Since the basic structure of DNA-alkaline pairs and language is of the same structure, no DNA decoding is necessary. One can simply use words and sentences of the human language! This, too, was experimentally proven!' Of course the frequency has to be correct. But for the purposes of this article, the Russian research shows how science now can demonstrate a way to reprogram DNA through language and frequencies.

"Experiencers" who manifest unusual languages, such as Rochelle (see the video Expressions of ET Contact: A Communication and Healing Blueprint?) call these 'soul languages'. Rochelle vocalises them when doing energy work and healing. Healing with sound and frequencies takes on a new meaning in this context. It could mean that Rochelle and others like her may well intuitively be able to change or reprogram DNA though such frequencies while healing. We already know that our subconscious is affected by subliminal frequencies and hypnosis, and the Russian research may have given us a scientific explanation why such techniques work so well. The question is whether the specific frequencies of these languages are designed to affect or reprogram our human DNA? This may well give us grounds for reviewing ancient texts in regards to our origins.

It is important to see how ubiquitous this Draco story is to our genetic history. Observe in the table below - how the correct term for this DRACO bloodline of genetic memory: URU - becomes the centerpiece of a huge piece of modern historical naming. The URU - being 'of the ANCIENT DRAGON BLOOD' - became - URal, eURope, ibiURU, n'ibiURU (Hebrew, Niburu), URUan/ Roman Rumanian, boURg (UR of the BO or Beezebub meaning Enki line) - see the table below.

Also looking at that table we see the origin of the word MAGYAR and HUNGARY - ON-AG -UR (an=sungod, ag=source of fire, ur=dragon blood).

The purpose of this document is to make the connection between the origins of languages (like MAYGAR - RAGAS-URAS, and HEBREW / SANSKRIT)-

to the REAL symmetry physics of how DNA gains and loses that AG-ni or en-souling implosive gravity fabricating electric fire.

Edit: deactivated link

 

[shijing]

i have something that seems to correlate in some ways to the 'waves' i have been reading about.

have a look at the following site much of which is by Dan Winters, the applicable bits are half to 3/4 down & involve aliens, DNA, the past/ future, etc etc.

Thanks for the information, Rob -- but first, do a search for "Dan Winter" on the forum and see what you find -- you may be very interested in the results! (Also, you only need to post the info once -- since you already posted about this on another board, it is redundant to post it again here. That helps keep the noise down.)

 

[Rob]

Hi Shijing (everyone),

been a hectic time since last being on here.

Holiday to Europe etc was fantastic (Germany (Stuttgart), Hungary (Budapest), Italy (everywhere), Greece (ditto), Egypt (Istanbul), Palestine, Israel....
Amazing .. will will post a link once i set up my face book or some such. The history & scenery is awe inspiring. We hoped the more expensive bus tours would go a t a stately pace but they r very tiring, up at 5 bed by 10. Thought going on a seniors tour would be slower than Contiki but it isnt. :(

I looked up Dan Winters as u suggested back then & if i remember correctly it didn't bode well for his credibility. Not that it means his info is wrong, but that his info needs verification, as does everyone else. Oh well, some crack pots has been vindicated in time, most aren't. ;)

Been busy with life. Bought a 2008 toyota to replace my 95 audi (still prefer audi's).

To get fitter & avoid pollution etc i decided to add an electric motor to my mtn bike. Such a great idea! Now hills arent such an annoying & time wasting obstacle.
Cost to charge is 20c. Gets me to work only 5min slower than car, but quicker in peak traffic. Is fun & you feel the urge to ride each day. As batteries get more powerful with longer range its obvious that batteries will increasingly replace petrol.

Anyway, just a quick hello to say i'm back (luck you! ;))

 

[anart]

I looked up Dan Winters as u suggested back then & if i remember correctly it didn't bode well for his credibility. Not that it means his info is wrong,

Actually, yeah - it does mean that. ;) Welcome back, Rob.

 

[shijing]

I looked up Dan Winters as u suggested back then & if i remember correctly it didn't bode well for his credibility. Not that it means his info is wrong,

Actually, yeah - it does mean that. ;) Welcome back, Rob.

Yeah, it does mean that -- even if Winter plagiarized some grains of truth here and there, you can be he didn't understand them. And yes, welcome back, Rob.

 

[Rob]

HI guys,

hehe, ok i'll take your word for it. ;) All i recall from reading his info was how 'out there' it seemed, whilst trying not to judge it one way or another (because u never know). ;) I dont discount anything (just in case) & will allow for the remote possibility that even 1+1 may not = 2. Thats why i generally react to people slowly, since i analyze what they say b4 replying.
If i can find what he wrote again i'll try to verify his claimed Soviet research results.

From the TV documentaries i've seen about China & USSR their medical & other science research has 'supposedly' resulted in advances not achieved in the west.
Not always from advanced technology, but sometimes from rudimentary medical practices, akin somewhat to alternative therapies.

My sister was one of this country's top dietitian & cancer researcher at Deakin Uni & Peter Macallum Inst. she says we still know little about the complexity of how foods interact with our bodies & other foods, & taking vitamin pills can be useless since the nutrients usually need certain food elements to be 'immediately' present in order for the vitamins to be absorbed. etc etc. She also warned about analysing statistic since it takes a specialist in the field to do so, & why she claims so many wild ideas abound about food & nutrition made by people lacking the expertise to assess her research results for example.

Anyway, back to linguistics, & what u said months ago.. that to make a correlation between 2 languages u need sound correspondence for each claimed similar word. What happens though, with English being a great example, when the pronunciation of words & sounds changes over the centuries? Even between the different classes of people (rich v poor). Doesn't that make it virtually impossible to obtain sound correlations? Also, without a time machine how can linguists ever know how letters were pronounced, even 100 yrs ago let alone 5000, 100,000.....?

ciao :)

 

[shijing]

Anyway, back to linguistics, & what u said months ago.. that to make a correlation between 2 languages u need sound correspondence for each claimed similar word. What happens though, with English being a great example, when the pronunciation of words & sounds changes over the centuries? Even between the different classes of people (rich v poor). Doesn't that make it virtually impossible to obtain sound correlations?

No, because sound change is generally very regular, both over time and sociolinguistically. Even though sound change occurs, the patterns remain, and can still be compared. Here's a Wikipedia article that explains the general idea:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_method

Also, without a time machine how can linguists ever know how letters were pronounced, even 100 yrs ago let alone 5000, 100,000.....?

The short answer is that they can't. But they can often be reasonably inferred via the comparative method and reconstruction described in the above article (most people would say 100,000 years is really pushing it, though, but who knows...).