The Ice Age Cometh! Forget Global Warming!

[anart]

And I believe there is no corrupt science: there science, sometimes not absolutely accurate but evolving, and there is non-science.

Then, you have a lot to learn - but learning is fun.

 

[RedFox]

And I believe there is no corrupt science: there science, sometimes not absolutely accurate but evolving, and there is non-science.

You may or may not want to start with the following:

The Corruption of Science in America
The downfall of science and the rise of intellectual tyranny

 

[Joe]

Hi Uralsky, you could also check this video out. A Professor Bob Carter explains in detail what's wrong with the imposed consensus on global warming.

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLkze-9GcI

Uralsky, if you are sincere in your questions, then watch the above-mentioned video, and address the points he makes, if you think they need addressing.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Hi Uralsky, you could also check this video out. A Professor Bob Carter explains in detail what's wrong with the imposed consensus on global warming.

_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLkze-9GcI

Uralsky, if you are sincere in your questions, then watch the above-mentioned video, and address the points he makes, if you think they need addressing.

Yeah, and the videos were uploaded in 2007, before the "climategate" fiasco blew over.

Plus, Carter makes some very good points about all this hype taking our attention away from real concerns like cooling and the serious pollutants being spewed -- as he says, considering CO2 as a pollutant is utterly absurd (and it's not even a major "greenhouse gas") while ignoring much more serious pollutants. And this gives the lie to the propaganda that all who point out the nonsense about AGW are "pro-industry" and not concerned about the environment, etc.

 

[Voyageur]

Hi Uralsky, fwiw, another area to ponder is heating cooling correlations based on planetary mantels or cores reacting to electrical exchanges as capacitors. Much has been written in the forum and on Sott about planets, suns, comets et al, in electrical universe theories. If this is so, then heating of oceans for instance, can be affected by the very basins upon which they float.

Came across this link whereby a committed scientist changed his thinking:

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/132243-Global-warming-hot-air-Geologist-disputes-claims-human-activity-heating-the-earth

This is quoted from a short interview with Bruno Wiskel of the University of Alberta:

He blamed people grubbing for research dollars for perpetuating what he says is a myth.

If you funnel money into things that can't be changed, the money is not going into the places that it is needed.

For the C02 crowd, they have demanded and are getting every political manoeuvred dollar to perpetuate this myth and the media plays this tune lock stock and barrel while never presenting the other side unless it is to mock them, osit. :)

 

[Esote]

Here are up to date articles in sott.net :

From Professor emeritus Don Easterbrook, a specialist in glacial geology
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/240210-Prominent-Scientist-Doubts-Global-Warming

And Corruption of Science: Misconduct Pervades UK Research
http://www.sott.net/articles/show/240203-Corruption-of-Science-Misconduct-Pervades-UK-Research

This is very important IMO :

... about all this hype taking our attention away from real concerns like cooling and the serious pollutants being spewed -- as he says, considering CO2 as a pollutant is utterly absurd (and it's not even a major "greenhouse gas") while ignoring much more serious pollutants. And this gives the lie to the propaganda that all who point out the nonsense about AGW are "pro-industry" and not concerned about the environment, etc.

 

[vinin]

Thanks to all for useful links to study. I really felt welcomed to a decent conversation by the last comments. It will take time to go through all the global warming posts. As for the “corrupt science” I want to clarify.
First, relevant definitions of science:
1. Systematic activity that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.
Systematic study of the nature and behaviour of the material and physical universe, based on observation, experiment, and measurement, and the formulation of laws to describe these facts in general terms.
Science makes use of the scientific method, which includes the careful observation of natural phenomena, the formulation of a hypothesis, the conducting of one or more experiments to test the hypothesis, and the drawing of a conclusion that confirms or modifies the hypothesis.
2. Body of reliable knowledge itself, of the type that can be logically and rationally explained.
System of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through scientific method.

Same for corrupt:
1. Venal; dishonest
2. Containing errors or alterations

I agree that the current system of grant distribution and results publication is not functioning well for the benefit of scientific knowledge.
I agree that there people called themselves “scientists” who do not practice actual science; they produce body of knowledge often containing errors and thus corrupt in this cense. Their activity is what I call non-science. I have met in my life such “scientists.” Sometimes they are honestly mistaken, worse if they do it knowingly. Those latter I would call corrupt scientists.
Science as activity that uses scientific methods remains science. Anything else is non-science.
Now it seems that I am on the same side. :)

 

[Yozilla]

OK there is something interesting goin' on in Media here in recent days (some radio and paper news releases in Croatia) - a start (?) of "melting down of the global warming hoax" (interesting pun). In local Newspaper today I red an interview with one scientist in which he claims that the global warming is a sign of an Ice age coming in 1500 - 2000 (?) years which could be quite significant in terms of possible changing of attitude ...

Also yesterday (or day before) while driving in my car/listening to radio news I heard Mrs Speaker reading very interesting line considering some very cool weather "incidents" in southern hemisphere as results of strangely warm weather in northern hemisphere which point out that it is not GW jet global cooling in progress... I mean the color of her voice was so strange - it was obvious that she totally bought GW crab and that she was absolutely confused with very content of report claiming something completely opposite...

Has anybody else here had similar experience in other media?

 

[Bobo08]

Bobo08:

It has been shown that ice ages generally begin after a very wam period, which flips over into an ice age in an extremely short time.

Agree. Yet it does not rule out warming effect from manmade gases. All it says to me is that in absence of man a new ice age could start rather quickly on geological time scale.

The warming effect from man-made gases is rather small. The C's figure is 4%. This SOTT Focus article: The Cs Hit List: Space and Weather Science Gone Wild details the C's comments and the supporting science. In addition, global warming is happening in many other planets in the solar system. Are we to believe that aliens are causing that?

What planet are you living on? Is carbon tax evident of the establishment being against global warming? Is the fact that all the talking heads on the media just KNOW that global warming is happening evident of the establishment being against global warming?

What carbon tax? Well, you may have carbon tax in some European countries but not in US (except two states). Even if we get carbon tax in the future that will happen in spite of political resistance to it.

The political resistance to carbon tax is either grassroot, or just a show to deceive the public. But my point is not about whether there is carbon tax or not (there is, very soon in Australia where I live). My point is that arguing the establishment being against global warming is just absurd.

My point is that using someone’s opinion just because it happened to state same conclusion as you are looking to confirm is not a particularly good approach if one wants to establish well researched scientific base. In other way, there may well be an Ice Age coming but not because of the reasons presented by Mr. Aruba.

Can you point out what's wrong with Aruba's reasoning? All he wrote is that statistically speaking, we are due for an ice age any time now. Many things can cause that to happen.

After reading more on Cass and SOTT I may change my view (as happens in science) or I may come back to try changing yours (as happens too). Besides, I presume you would expect to find some of the C’s predictions not happening in accordance with their 71.7% accuracy rate.

On this forum, we don't just assume something is true because the C's said so, despite their quite reliable track record. We always check and collaborate what they said with evidence and research from science and history. They match well in this case, as in many others.

 

[Esote]

It's quite confusing to find the right (most objective) informations about any complex subjects. Propaganda, disinformation, you name it...

Even more confusing to make up one's mind and act consequently, not hiding one's head in the sand or blindly following a belief etc.

The Medias (in France and most places I guess) give some place to Anti-Global-Warming scientists or reporters, but it appears that they are more or less linked to Oil Corporations, mainly according to the Ecologists, the same that were heartedly supporting war in Libya.
Another scenario would be that Chemical-Nuclear Corporations are somehow promoting their own (death) business, by giving the means for accrediting GW...

True Science, or True Knowledge, is the Absolute Objective we are aiming to(gether) I suppose.

As for the squirrel in the "Ice Age" cartoons, we are always after our big nut, trying and learning to get it, and it can be fun also

 

[Laura]

The Medias (in France and most places I guess) give some place to Anti-Global-Warming scientists or reporters, but it appears that they are more or less linked to Oil Corporations, mainly according to the Ecologists, the same that were heartedly supporting war in Libya.
Another scenario would be that Chemical-Nuclear Corporations are somehow promoting their own (death) business, by giving the means for accrediting GW...

That's the problem: they've "framed" the debate so that if you are saying that global warming isn't the big problem they say it is, you are automatically classified as against ecological concerns - you are an industrialist who just wants to keep polluting.

But that's not what we are saying. The Cs clearly stated in passing once that global warming leads to Ice Ages. Global warming, per se, would be a good thing because that would mean that more areas of the globe could produce food.

The big problem of understanding Ice Ages is "how do they begin?" That is, if the planet just starts to cool due to orbital fluctuations, space dust, whatever, it would just get colder and barren. What is needed is a mechanism that produces the snow that piles up during an ice age and for that, you need evaporation and precipitation. So far, none of the standard models of how ice ages start are able to come up with a mechanism that deals with both global heating and global cooling at the same time: i.e., massively increased evaporation/precipitation then rapid freezing and staying frozen.

 

[Konstantin]

Well , maybe it have already started. Look at this links

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11907045

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/heavy-snow-paralyzes-parts-of-balkans

Here in Macedonia in the southern parts we have heavy snow.Usually there is a very litle snow , about few cm. This year there is snow over 2 meters.And there is new predictions by meteorologists for new heavy rains. Also a very cold weather is this season . I have one idea that what if this summer will be a cold one. with lot of clouds and pretty low temperatures for the summer, lot of rains. The upper layers of the atmosphere are cooling . That means that on high mountains there will be much lower temperature than usually. And what if this snow cant melt over there.Now there is more then 2 m. Then next winter comes and there will be more snow rains, and here you go. We get snow all year round. That means colder winds that blows from mountains. That means more cooling effect. Also the white surface from the snow will increase this effect. And it all goes in to a circle.I`m afraid that its alredy started

 

[Esote]

Well , maybe it have already started. Look at this links

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11907045

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/heavy-snow-paralyzes-parts-of-balkans

Here in Macedonia in the southern parts we have heavy snow.Usually there is a very litle snow , about few cm. This year there is snow over 2 meters.And there is new predictions by meteorologists for new heavy rains. Also a very cold weather is this season . I have one idea that what if this summer will be a cold one. with lot of clouds and pretty low temperatures for the summer, lot of rains. The upper layers of the atmosphere are cooling . That means that on high mountains there will be much lower temperature than usually. And what if this snow cant melt over there.Now there is more then 2 m. Then next winter comes and there will be more snow rains, and here you go. We get snow all year round. That means colder winds that blows from mountains. That means more cooling effect. Also the white surface from the snow will increase this effect. And it all goes in to a circle.I`m afraid that its alredy started

Hi jovichmk
Your first link is more than one year old, the second one more than 2 years.
And here in the south of the Alps there has been almost no winter, no snow down the valleys, it feels like April.
The only time it has been real cold was two years ago, for two weeks only. When it used to be for months, more or less each year, a few decades ago.
And the ice around the Poles seems to still be breaking and melting...
If you have a lot of snow in Macedonia (which doesn't mean it's really cold, but rather that it's wet), I don't think it means much about the coming of an Ice Age.
Nobody knows when will start the next Ice Age, it may be next year, or next century ? Has it started ?
"Who will live, will see"...

 

[Konstantin]

I havent checked dates for this links but situation here is how i said. VERY COLD. I know that people are reporting warm winters all over Europe. Like on Alps. Spain and some other places. But here on BALKAN Peninsula there is Very Cold ( there is paces where temp drop about -30 C in the city, not high on mountains.) So not just wet. In fact this one was quite Dry and very cold at the begining bu now suddenly very heavy snows with strong and cold winds.Once there were thunders also . Its very unusually in winter. Wte weather that are you saying ( mild winter with mild temperature, wet and not much snow) was here about 2 years ago, when for christmas it was about 15 C. But it was not the case this year. I know that nobody knows when ace age cat strike but i guess its gonna be soon, and its gonna be very quick.

 

[Konstantin]

http://english.ruvr.ru/2012/01/27/64730199.html

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/article/snowfall-paralyzes-kosovo

http://www.silobreaker.com/lead-snowstorm-wreaks-havoc-in-central-balkans-5_2265439287640064303